zzz_pt
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Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter Patrik
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- 13,918
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You'd be surprised how much this isn't true. Racists and bigots of all kinds don't care what people do, they care what people are. I'd bet that in every society you can find at least one group of people who are judged simply for what they are, not for anything that they've done. In fact I'd mostly be surprised if there was only one.
Judging people for no particular reason is very human and very common, which is why we're generally so impressed when someone comes along who manages to look past all the BS and just treat people as people.
zzz_pt
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You're right. I guess, in those cases, if "sin" comes to light it's only used as a mask. Racism, for instance, has nothing to do with sin, I'd say. On the other hand, homophobia has a lot to do with it. I guess I was a bit over optimistic. But for what matters, in civilized countries and societies, sin has no place in legislation or intellectual and honest interactions between the majority of the people.
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I know there is a god and his name is YHWH or Yahweh. I've walked with Him for 36 years. I've seen things most people would never believe and have been used by YHWH to do things even I had a hard time believing. Satan is also real and a very crafty adversary. His main tool is deception and then division. We are all searching for that missing something. People turn to drugs, alcohol, porn, sex and all matter of depravity trying to fill the void that can only be filled by YHWH. The only reason people know about sin is because it is plainly laid out in the Scriptures. It is written "judge not your fellow man because by the same standards you judge so you will be judged." I do not want to be on the receiving end of that.
People are allowed to believe whatever they want. I am a minister but I don't try and shove God down anyone's throat like some do. If someone asks me about God I try my best to use His words and not mine. I'm not perfect and never will be until the Messiah Yeshua/Jesus returns. I still sin but try hard not too. The best part is that if I truly repent which means turn and go the opposite direction I can be forgiven. YHWH is a good God and loves you regardless if you never even give it a thought or not. Good things and bad things happen to all of us. Believing in God doesn't stop the bad things, He is right there with you the whole time. So believe what you want to believe just don't try and shove it down someone's throat and by all means don't get mad if they don't listen. I won't get mad if you don't like what I've written. If you would like to know more about what I believe feel free to send me a PM. Baruch HaShem HaMashiach Yeshua.
People are allowed to believe whatever they want. I am a minister but I don't try and shove God down anyone's throat like some do. If someone asks me about God I try my best to use His words and not mine. I'm not perfect and never will be until the Messiah Yeshua/Jesus returns. I still sin but try hard not too. The best part is that if I truly repent which means turn and go the opposite direction I can be forgiven. YHWH is a good God and loves you regardless if you never even give it a thought or not. Good things and bad things happen to all of us. Believing in God doesn't stop the bad things, He is right there with you the whole time. So believe what you want to believe just don't try and shove it down someone's throat and by all means don't get mad if they don't listen. I won't get mad if you don't like what I've written. If you would like to know more about what I believe feel free to send me a PM. Baruch HaShem HaMashiach Yeshua.
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Scaff
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You do know that predates the Bible by quite a large amount of time?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
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Like what for example? Are any of them things that may also have a rational explanation?
Incidentally, so have I... many times.
I find these two statements to be inconsistent, but that may be because I am misunderstanding the meaning of certain words and phrases - but possibly not. If God loves us whether we realise it or not, then how is belief a factor in anything? To "truly repent" it kind of goes without saying that you have to believe in God in the first place... conversely, if you do not believe in God, then you cannot repent... but God still loves us anyway? Do you mean that God's love for us is completely unconditional? (I'm guessing not)...
What I take away from these two statements is that you believe that God loves us no matter what we think of him, but that God's love doesn't really count for a great deal when it comes to his judgement of us when we die, since unless it turns out we are believers (and repent for our perceived sins), then access to Heaven will be denied... is that correct? Does God still love unrepentant sinners and non-believers, yet chooses to allow such people to suffer eternal damnation as a result, despite still 'loving' us? I'm interested to hear what a minister has to say about this, but I'm also curious as to how often believers ask similar questions of you.
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- 1,794
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I'm well aware of the Golden Rule. It states do unto others as you would want them to do the same to you. That's not the same as passing judgement on another person because of their race, religion, disfigurement/disability, or simply the way they look or behave.
I have seen people raised from the dead including my own daughter. Concerning my daughter she was dead, no pulse, no respiration verified by a nurse who was in attendance. I have seen people cured of diseases instantly with no medical explanation. Both my wife and I were cured of cocaine addiction while driving down the highway to our new home that God had opened a door for a new opportunity for us. Lastly I have seen real demons cast out of people like a time when a woman slithered through a partially open car window down the side of the car and she had bright yellow snake like eyes. I've seen a 120 lb. man throw 6 full grown men across rows of pews. This part of ministry is called deliverance and yes, yes, yes, there are many that a scams. I could go on and on like the time we gave our last $100 to a need in the church to come home and find a $100 bill and 4 bags of groceries waiting on our front porch before we got home. I know there are many skeptics and honestly if I hadn't seen these things with my own eyes I would be skeptical as well. 36 years is well over half of my life and I have seen miracles. I was struck by lightning and I'm still here and he has saved my life numbers of time including this past August.
Now concerning the 2 statements. First, yes God does love us unconditionally and offers every person the opportunity to get to know Him. That is what He really wants is for you to know Him personally and for you to know Him on a personal level. There are rules and regulations all around us. If you speed you're going to get a ticket as an example. So God has rules and regulations as well. Follow His rules and regulations and you don't suffer the consequences. Yes He still loves the unrepentant until you die. Once you are dead it's too late to repent. Having been in many hospitals I have seen people who knew they were going to die accept/believe in Jesus and pass away in peace. It is a personal choice whether you believe or not, but you cannot deny that many times during a person's life they have been given the opportunity to accept or deny Yeshua/Jesus. I have had many believers and many non-believers ask the same questions and I always give them the same answer. What does your heart say, not your head. When you think about it does seem very far fetched to believe the bible is true. I wandered lost for 27 years but I had had numbers of times people come into my life that answered the questions I had and with all of my heart I believe God put those people in my life at the right time. I know what I believe, I know what I've seen. This is just the internet so anyone can say anything they choose. I made my choice to accept and believe in Yeshua and have never regretted not once.
I sincerely hope what I have written has made a difference. It is your personal choice to believe or not to believe. It's not mine to force my beliefs on anyone. I was surprised when I found this thread. I'm glad I did.
I wanted to add that I have met many believers over years here at
. Some I still have contact with and others have gone on to other things. The last thing I want is to offend anyone.
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I don't know why. I was just relating from personal experience. Since what I was writing was already getting very long I left out the few hours part. Normally people addicted to cocaine have to go through some sort of rehab where our case was a matter of hours with no withdrawal.
Addiction of any kind can be demonic activity. My dad was an alcoholic and you could see his facial features change once he started to drink. When he wan't drinking he was the nicest person you'd want to meet. But when he was drunk he was evil, beat my mom and me and my brothers.
CodeRedR51
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Curious, did these people come back to life as doctors were working on them? Or were they just laying there and hours later just sprung to life? Because, you know, one is possible and the other not so much.
So was my dad. You know what saved his life? His Subaru Loyale.
Praise the Subaru gods.
Edit: I can't english.
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CodeRedR51
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Scaff
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Yes it is the same, which you would know had you bothered to follow the link and take a read.
It's the same to the degree that Christians have tried to claim it add there own for a around two thousand years.
Oh and it certainly does cover the examples you have cited. Don't judge others for there race, religion, etc as you would not wish to be judged fort your own.
It more than covers it, Christianity is most certainly not the origin of this idea. Then again that's not exactly unique in being something Christianity had borrowed from other faiths and cultures.
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It troubles me when people ascribe this sort of stuff to God, instead of to the kind person who obviously saw your act of generosity and decided to take it into their own hands to make sure that you were rewarded for it.
I mean, do you think that the $100 and groceries just magically turned up there?
Maybe miracles and the like do happen, but that's not one of them. That's an example of what goes around comes around. You gave generously of what you had to those whose need was greater, and someone else saw that and did the same for you.
The people that you gave your $100 to shouldn't be thanking God, they should be thanking you. Likewise, you should be grateful to whoever left you $100 and groceries, not to God. God may have been involved in some abstract sense, but someone, somewhere chose of their own free will to go and buy you four bags of groceries and leave you $100. They personally made sure that you wouldn't feel hardship for your kind act.
I feel that they deserve your gratitude far more than God in that particular instance. But that's just me.
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If you don't mind me asking, how did she recover? Was there no intervention whatsoever from the medical staff in attendance? Thousands of people watched in horror as an English Premier League footballer, Fabrice Muamba, collapsed and (by most definitions of the word) 'died' during a football match, and he remained 'dead' for a staggering 78 minutes before 'coming back to life'. My understanding of the situation is that he was resuscitated by trained medical staff, but otherwise he would have died (or remained dead). There are a few points to be made here - one relates to the definition of 'dead' - coming back from being 'dead' is clearly possible, depending on how you define being dead. The degree and quality of post-death medical attention is also massively important - even something seemingly trivial could have a huge influence over the outcome of certain cases. Also, there's the possibility of an unexplained/unexpected resolution without physical intervention, which is what you are implying here - BUT, this is the hardest one to pin down. The human body is a remarkable and highly complex thing where things can and do go wrong for no apparent reason - it is also conceivable that on rare occasions problems rectify themselves for no apparent reason as well, without needing to invoke the supernatural to explain it.
As above, this does not mean that the explanation must be supernatural.
There are doubtless many incidences of people whose medical conditions (or perhaps just the symptoms) are relieved or even disappear entirely without any medical intervention, but again, this doesn't mean that the explanation for it lies with a supernatural entity... all it really means is that such conditions and the workings of the human body are not fully understood. As you note, there are many snake oil salesmen out there, but that doesn't mean that all such cases are bogus. However, just because there is no apparent reason for spontaneous recovery, it doesn't automatically mean that God did it. You only need to look at the plethora of supposed therapies out there (crystals, magnets, infrared light, reiki etc. etc.) to appreciate how difficult it is attribute one's recovery to anything, let alone something that by its very definition cannot be detected.
In all fairness, addiction is not the best example of a disease that can be cured with no medical help.
That's really cool, but as has been said already, it is not a miracle.
... until we die?
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- Spurgy777
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The bible said that in the last days, people will see good as bad, and bad as good.
If you think killing a child is not a sin, because sin presumably doesn't exist in your world, then it's okay to kill an innocent child. Thanks evolution.
By the way, He cannot be God if something came before Him.
Because it's the truth, and only the truth offends people.
You right, they don't need to do anything, because of free will, they don't need to believe in God or in sin or in a day of judgement, or that whatever they do in their own eyes, is right for themselves.
God has said that no man is good, and every man has sinned. You right, only God can judge. I would say take it up with Him, but I'd rather you ridicule me and scoff at me. I just love forgiveness.
God judges the heart and mind. He knows what is said even if it never departs from a persons mouth.
Different religions are a free choice, and God says that everything will bring forth after it's own kind. If a family wants to worship other gods, because they are happy with it, so be it. It's again, free choice.
People deny sin in words, but thankfully, they acknowledge it in their hearts, even if the guilt hits them for one second.
At least by now you understand that God judges the heart, even if you choose not to believe He exists.
the truth is offensive, and yes, it has to be. Sin is the biggest problem in this world, hence all the things done, in opposition of goodness.
Where did good and evil come from? No one knows, accept the One who created it, and the two that chose to live with it, it's consequences, and pass it on to their children.
Anyone who lifts up their hands and declares that they don't sin before God, is self righteous, and a liar.
Without Christ, we are all doomed in a world that is getting worse.
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...????
What? Whhaaaaat? I don't even...
What are you on about??
Where's a Jackie Chan meme when you need one.
The leap in logic here is just astonishing. Maybe you're not explaining yourself clearly enough, so what you meant to say doesn't come across properly. I sincerely hope this is the case...
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It's very clear. In Gods eyes, a sin is a sin, whether lying, or killing. Remember, everyone has an eternal destination, including those that say there is nothing after death.
Again, if we decide what is sin, and what is not, or what is right, and what is wrong, we are then self righteous.
Even Jackie knows this, but if he is offended, he will deny it with his words.
Scaff
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Define bad and good.
Are you seriously that deluded to get to that point from the question I asked you? What on earth is wrong with you?
My point (that you utterly missed in your brainwashed delusion) is that Sin is a religious definition of what is good and evil (what is moral and immoral), and as such is defined by your God. You can't use Sin (as defined by your claimed God) to prove your God exists, its circular logic.
However way to miss the point to try and claim I endorse the murder of children (which by the way your religious texts do endorse). Region doesn't have a monopoly of morals, never has and never will.
What?
So he created himself, how does that work?
Oh and plenty came before him, given that we have more than enough evidence of life in the universe before a single mention of God, that's the problem with man made deities.
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I was referencing how victims of abuse often hold a guilty conscience, directly associated with having been abused. You said that a guilty conscience never lies, and that it equates to having sinned. Would you like to clarify or change your stance to make it less disgusting?
One chance before I decide to express my masochism elsewhere. Currently every fibre of my being suggests that you are not worth it.
BobK
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Danoff
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That's satisfying to you? You don't need God if that's satisfying to you (interestingly enough, you also don't need God if it isn't). If you're willing to just believe that something intrinsically has no beginning, just get on board with the Universe not having a beginning. It cannot be the universe if something came before it. That's actually slightly more intelligible than what you wrote and offers just as many answers.
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That's when you interpret the Bible to suit your worldly desires, and self righteousness.
Evolution has given the freedom to make your own rules, and survival of the fittest. The weak perish, and should be the case. Anyone who believes they have enough power, will start overpowering the meek. It's happening all over the world today. See, you go by your own rules. You don't need God in your life, the One that gave you your incredible existence.
@Scaff
There was a time where your people thought the universe was eternal, and probably some still do.
God has to be Eternal, else He is not God. Something had to create the big bang. It's fine if you reject God, but there is still the void that there should be something before.
I understand that you cannot think outside the box you're in, but it's perfectly fine for me to understand that God is Eternal. He has got to be the uncreated One, otherwise He cannot be God.
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