Do you believe in God?

[Sam48]

Yes (unfortunately my father is like Sarah Palin) but I'm asking as a person without knowledge of religion.

Why does Jesus want to kill us and destroy the earth? Is he a terrorist?
If he wants to do that, Jesus is more evil than the devil.

No one said he would kill everyone. I said he would "destroy the earth" (we
would would all be sent to purgatory).

No, the devil wants you dead and in hell, Jesus wants you to be happy in heaven. However, by your one standards, the devil doesn't even exist.

And yes, rapists, murderers, as long as they are truly sorry for their sins, and accept God, will get to go to heaven. (even Hitler)

 

[LizMcQueen]

In Franco's Spain, Catholicism was made the state religion as well.

In Spain, during the Franco's dictatorship (1936-1975), priests denounced people (simply because they were not in favor of Franco), they called soldiers and went from house to house killing men, women and children and then burying bodies in mass graves.
Nowadays, church does everything possible to avoid those people are buried with dignity, and they deny any misdeed in the past.
I think this is a good reason to hate anything religious, I'm sorry for the off-topic.

 

[Duke]

My whole participation in this thread is to add factual voice to the other side. So far it has been met with little regard.

It's been met with little regard because the alleged "science" in that movie has about as much actual scientific value as your average "NASA faked the moon landings" website.

 

[Touring Mars]

That said, some of those pictures from the moon landings were obviously made in a studio somewhere..

 

[DQuaN]

It's been met with little regard because the alleged "science" in that movie has about as much actual scientific value as your average "NASA faked the moon landings" website.

It has also been met with little regard as there are very few 'facts' in his posts.

 

[LizMcQueen]

No one said he would kill everyone. I said he would "destroy the earth" (we would would all be sent to purgatory).

No, the devil wants you dead and in hell, Jesus wants you to be happy in heaven. However, by your one standards, the devil doesn't even exist.

And yes, rapists, murderers, as long as they are truly sorry for their sins, and accept God, will get to go to heaven. (even Hitler)

If he destroys the earth, the result is the same, who will kill you? Jesus, moreover, there is another problem, some churches (orthodox church and protestant church) deny the existence of purgatory.

The devil wants me dead and in hell, but you say he doesn't exist, Jesus wants me to be happy in heaven, but he will kill me... I see many contradictions.

Finally, and if eternal life exists, I have to choose, an eternity in hell or in a heaven full of rapists, murderers... it's a difficult decision, I need more information from both places.

Now I'm going to the beach, if I don't return, is because god took revenge on me by my words...

 

[Sam48]

If he destroys the earth, the result is the same, who will kill you? Jesus, moreover, there is another problem, some churches (orthodox church and protestant church) deny the existence of purgatory.

No, the result is, we ascend. The earth gets destroyed.

The devil wants me dead and in hell, but you say he doesn't exist, Jesus wants me to be happy in heaven, but he will kill me... I see many contradictions.

I said he doesn't exist "by YOUR standards".

Finally, and if eternal life exists, I have to choose, an eternity in hell or in a heaven full of rapists, murderers... it's a difficult decision, I need more information from both places.

As if there are not even more rapists and murderers in hell? The ones in heaven have turned, and have received there reward. So no longer are they the rapists and murderers they once were on earth.

EDIT: and even if they are, they'll get sent from heaven to hell anyway.

 

[DK]

And yes, rapists, murderers, as long as they are truly sorry for their sins, and accept God, will get to go to heaven. (even Hitler)

I'll be seriously pissed off (and so would every decent person on this planet) if that bastard makes it into heaven. In that case, God must have pretty low standards. Do you think Hitler gave a crap when he was killing millions of Jews, trade unionists, political opponents, eastern Europeans, Roma gypsies etc.? Do you really think he was going to get down on his knees in front of God and beg for forgiveness for killing over 10 million people, most of which never even aimed a gun at a Nazi soldier, when he didn't beg for forgiveness when he was about to bite the cyanide capsule and shoot a big hole in his skull?

My personal beliefs about heaven is this: if you've done very good things, such as campaign for the end of unjust political policies, then you go to heaven. If you've done some really bad things, e.g. kill someone because you hate them for the simple reason that they are from a different race than you, you go to hell. Let me explain my beliefs here: Ted Bundy will certainly go to hell. Jack Bauer (if he was real) would just get reincarnated because of the sheer volume of bad things he has done. If you kill someone by accident, you just get reincarnated. Think of it as a second chance. Another example would be those who commit suicide because (let's just use another example here) they went through unimaginable trauma, e.g. being raped. It would be unfair to send them to hell, wouldn't it? So, just reincarnate them. There's a problem with this belief though. There have been many cases of people being brought back from the dead, such as those who suffered heart attacks and were later revived in a hospital. If God is truly all-knowing, (s)he wouldn't just reincarnate you there and then. Rather, think of it as some sort of waiting room, where God waits until (s)he knows that you're dead and there's no chance of coming back.

 

[Touring Mars]

And yes, rapists, murderers, as long as they are truly sorry for their sins, and accept God, will get to go to heaven. (even Hitler)

What sort of a message does that send out? That you can do anything - even commit genocide - and still make it into Heaven?

It makes the idea of being a good person and living a good life seem slightly pointless, doesn't it?

Frankly, the idea that you can be unspeakably evil and nasty and then repent and God will welcome you back to the flock is repulsive and utterly absurd.

 

[LeftyWright69]

Basically I dove into this thread with some curiosity and have found a lot of hypothetical mental masturbation with always using the premise that there is no God and when I give facts they are dismissed without a single case for any of it’s validity, just because you say it is such, how laughable are your counter points, or should I say lack of counter point.

There are better reasons to be moral than fear of retribution. Is that really why you don't go around killing people? Because you're afraid of getting caught? (Either by the police or by God) If so, you're not a moral person. If the threat of hell is the only thing stopping you from terrible things, you're a terrible person.

Wow dude your mixed up, let’s see your not moral if you are afraid of retribution? Your terrible if you worry about the threat of hell.

You can't come up with any other reason than God?

See post 1921

Ask yourself what might be a good reason for wearing clothing (besides bashfulness). Now ask yourself what behavior might result if everyone wore clothing all the time.

If modesty didn’t come from Adam and Eve then why don’t animals try to cover up when you look at them in their animal nakedness?

Ok, I read it. It's entertaining. I'll respond to it only if you demonstrate to me that you're willing to have a conversation rather than simply ignoring any points I make so that you can make some of your own. I entered this conversation due to one of your posts (not the one you wanted me to see, but I hadn't seen that one). I commented on one of your posts - made some good points, and to this point you have ignored them, instead directing me to a different post of yours.

I’m not ignoring you now…lol….

I'm happy to respond, but I need a gesture of good faith from you. Respond to the points I made and I will respond to yours. Otherwise I will assume that this is a diversionary tactic indicative of someone I don't have the patience to talk to right now.

I’m more then diversionary, I’m here to rock your world…he he he , so is this worthy of your benevolence and patience your Danoffness? That statement reminds me of Pewee Herman “La La La La I Can’t Hear You , ah ha ah ha” How week.

If you're quoting from one of the dumbest documentaries of all time, I doubt anyone will take you seriously.

I know your making that statement because someone told you the movie was dumb and it wasn’t worth your time to go and see it, right? So well put you down for not able to challenge the facts in post 1921

Honestly, there are better resources for an anti-Evolution rant. Much better. Most of everything that is covered in that documentary has been covered before. Pays to actually read a thread before you drop in.

So my facts are dismissed by you because of someone else’s case for intelligent design? So I’m not able to challenge your sensibilities because “it’s been Asked and Answered your Honor?”

Do yourself a favour and read every post in this thread and that thread before you continue.

Let me see if I get this right, before I can answer someone’s question I have to read every single entry to a thread ?

Another interesting thing is, why church supported dictators?

I really want to answer you Liz but Famine wants me to read.

And yes Liz when the evolutionist say that we are no different than animals then why don’t they cover up when we look at them in their animal nakedness?

I’m sorry to hear that you don’t feel guilt for telling lies, what a shame, do you think your mom would be happy to hear that?

So the Exodus was a Labor issue? “knarly dude”

Let me see if I got this figured out, your admission about Jesus existing means some parts of the bible are truthful? I’ll put the bible down as having at least one fact

Wow that was fun answering all your questions, how about one of you outspoken forum participants try to pick apart my facts post I’m still waiting……zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Famine]

Let me see if I get this right, before I can answer someone’s question I have to read every single entry to a thread ?

I don't believe I suggested compulsion, rather that you would do yourself greater service by reading before posting.

And it was two threads.

 

[Danoff]

Wow dude your mixed up, let’s see your not moral if you are afraid of retribution? Your terrible if you worry about the threat of hell.

That's actually not what I said. You can worry about retribution all you want - that doesn't make you immoral. But you ARE immoral if the only thing stopping you from action is the threat of retribution. If you'd LIKE to do terrible things but are STOPPED by the threat of retribution - then you are immoral. In short - the fear of God or hell is not morality. A moral person doesn't need police to keep him in check.

If modesty didn’t come from Adam and Eve then why don’t animals try to cover up when you look at them in their animal nakedness?

Opposable thumbs and small brains. They would if they had our talents. Clothing helps weather the elements. You don't think a lion wants to be able to take his coat off when he's hot? Or put one one when he's cold? He just doesn't have the brain or the dexterity to fashion a coat and put it on.

I’m not ignoring you now…lol….

Fair enough.

I’m more then diversionary, I’m here to rock your world…he he he , so is this worthy of your benevolence and patience your Danoffness?

Good enough. I'll respond to your "facts" with my next post.

 

[LeftyWright69]

That's actually not what I said. You can worry about retribution all you want - that doesn't make you immoral. But you ARE immoral if the only thing stopping you from action is the threat of retribution. If you'd LIKE to do terrible things but are STOPPED by the threat of retribution - then you are immoral. In short - the fear of God or hell is not morality. A moral person doesn't need police to keep him in check..

Wow this response reminds me of “what the meaning of is, IS” ( a Clintonesk moment)

Opposable thumbs and small brains. They would if they had our talents. Clothing helps weather the elements. You don't think a lion wants to be able to take his coat off when he's hot? Or put one on when he's cold? He just doesn't have the brain or the dexterity to fashion a coat and put it on.

The Adam and Eve thing didn’t have anything to do w/ protection form the environment, WOW. It had to do with GUILT, and modesty was the fix.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Wow this response reminds me of “what the meaning of is, IS” ( a Clintonesk moment)

Wow, this response reminds me of a troll

 

[Joel]

First one has to understand that in order for the whole religion thing to work there has to be a little thing called “ Faith “ since no one can prove what was written so long ago without faith, a case for the existence of God has to have that as the primary keystone. What does it take to prove anything? Well you generally need “Facts“. Facts are the whole basis for science unless you’re talking about “Global Warming”, Darwinism (evolutionary biology), or Space Aliens. Science will accept any possibility for life except for one that is guided. Now as in your case since you have stated that you need proof then by definition you must be a skeptic.

If proof of God is what you’re looking for Liz then you have to understand “intelligent design” and how it is a counter point to the whole atheist belief system that is bolstered by Darwinism. Intelligent Design is a study of patterns in nature, Darwin tried to prove that the changes within a species not only leads to new species but to every species and the evidence for that claim is totally lacking, where as Darwinism has to do with some concept that orients it’s self around life starting from a spontaneous emergence from a primordial soup AKA from mud to life, or another theory was that life possibly started on the backs of crystals. Maybe it was the alien seeding method…lol…

Darwin never stated how life began, so isn’t that what has to be looked at first? When Darwin talked about the common cell back in 1859 he considered it to be quite a simple design, when in fact it is as vast as the galaxy. For the world’s first single cell organism to have taken place you had to have a perfectly aligned string of 250 proteins all in the correct order for life to function, approximately one in one trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion for life to have taken place on it's own. For the understanding of the cell to be dealt with, it has to be looked at in a scientific manor just like Darwinism, but because of the unimaginable complexity of it, the Darwinist have to destroy the intelligent design aspect of it by weaving it into creationism, thusly demonizing it as taboo and painting it with the complexity of a randomness luck of the draw. The founders of early modern science Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei most of these scientist not only believed in God but their belief actually made it easier to do science.

A belief in Darwinism means that we live, we die, then were gone with no kind of deep meaning in life. Case in point Hitler’s Mein Kampf, he used Darwinistic Eugenics to devalue life and we know what that meant, a decrease in the surplus population. At some point you have to be a realist in this whole God thing, either you think your existence is something that is greater than a rock and has a chance that your spirit will go on after your mortality is realized or the human experience is no diffeent than a retarded fish frog. Retarded fish frog pt 2

My research was taken from the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, If anyone has the testicular fortitude to look at the greatest case for intelligent design then check it out, it will rock your Atheistic sensibilities.



Intelligent Design is like Holy Water to a Vampire

 

[Touring Mars]

@ LeftyWright, I've posted a response to your 'facts' post in the Creation v Evolution thread.

 

[Danoff]

Wow this response reminds me of “what the meaning of is, IS” ( a Clintonesk moment)


The Adam and Eve thing didn’t have anything to do w/ protection form the environment, WOW. It had to do with GUILT, and modesty was the fix.

Awwwwww shucks!!!!

I was even working on my response! Sorry, no - these statements verify my original fears. You managed to clean up your act for one post - just long enough to trick me into spending time on a response (TM actually did so - and did a nice job too). But then you went with this nonsense. This is not a response - it's the intellectual equivalent of closing your eyes and covering your ears.

I'm out. No response for you. You'll have to make do with TM's (which is more thorough and probably more respectful than mine would have been anyway). You're not paying close enough attention to anyone else's posts to be worth talking to.

 

[LizMcQueen]

when the evolutionist say that we are no different than animals then why don’t they cover up when we look at them in their animal nakedness?

mmmm... your question about Adam and Eve/god/animals/modesty makes no sense, but if I see a duck without waistcoat I'll talk to him about modesty.

I’m sorry to hear that you don’t feel guilt for telling lies, what a shame, do you think your mom would be happy to hear that?

don't worry, my lies don't harm anyone and I think my mother is not happy, but for other reasons.

Let me see if I got this figured out, your admission about Jesus existing means some parts of the bible are truthful? I’ll put the bible down as having at least one fact

no, for me it's a sci-fi book, in my library it's between Beyond Apollo and Bicentennial Man.

 

[Duke]

Basically I dove into this thread with some curiosity and have found a lot of hypothetical mental masturbation with always using the premise that there is no God and when I give facts they are dismissed without a single case for any of it’s validity, just because you say it is such, how laughable are your counter points, or should I say lack of counter point.

Really, truly, it's not that we can't counter the so-called "facts" in that you've reproduced third hand from a movie about Intelligent Design... it's just that the examples given and quote science unquote are so devoid of facts that we can't be bothered to try rebutting something that is so clearly outside the arena of logic and reason as to be laughable.

If you are interested in studious research - which you apparently are not, based on your source selection - then there are hundreds of true-science websites and books that explain the proven, unvarnished, undistorted facts and theories of evolutionary biology. This includes admission of places where specifics are not fully understood, unlike ID. However, these areas are much fewer, much smaller, and much less fundamental to the general field than IDers would have you believe.

And the "gaps" in evolutionary biology are getting smaller every day, unlike the gaps in ID.

 

[Sam48]

What sort of a message does that send out? That you can do anything - even commit genocide - and still make it into Heaven?

It makes the idea of being a good person and living a good life seem slightly pointless, doesn't it?

Frankly, the idea that you can be unspeakably evil and nasty and then repent and God will welcome you back to the flock is repulsive and utterly absurd.

Not exactly. If someone, for example, kills someone else, the murderer cannot ask God for forgiveness if he pre-knowingly planned to. So I can't just go around killing people and asking for forgiveness each time. It doesn't work like that.

However, if I killed someone and then realized what a terrible thing I just did (whilst completely ignoring God), I could then ask for forgiveness, but if I killed someone a second time after that, I probably wouldn't be so lucky.

 

[Famine]

Not exactly. If someone, for example, kills someone else, the murderer cannot ask God for forgiveness if he pre-knowingly planned to. So I can't just go around killing people and asking for forgiveness each time. It doesn't work like that.

However, if I killed someone and then realized what a terrible thing I just did (whilst completely ignoring God), I could then ask for forgiveness, but if I killed someone a second time after that, I probably wouldn't be so lucky.

But if you killed two and then repented it'd be fine?

Someone who spends 40 years doing no wrong at all is a bad person, but someone who spends 40 years on a killing spree is a good person if they accept Jesus just before they go to the Chair. And that makes sense?

 

[DK]

My research was taken from the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, If anyone has the testicular fortitude to look at the greatest case for intelligent design then check it out, it will rock your Atheistic sensibilities.

Like I'll waste an hour and a half or so watching creationist propaganda. I suppose there's no intelligence allowed in the Ben Stein household. He seems like the kind who would beat his kids for reading any book that promotes evolution as scientific fact.

Something about this bit tells me he's just taking the piss out of creationists with their fingers in their ears.

 

[CTznOfTime]

1) Praying to GOD and believing in GOD does not necessarily make you a good person...

2) Not believing in GOD does not necessarily make you a bad person either...



it's how you lead your life, whether you have your own moral and honor that and would not affect negatively other individual around you...

... As soon as you realize that, you dont need a GOD anymore.

GOD is for those who cannot think for themselves on how to be a good person in life ... ... who has to be guided and shown the way...

just saying...

 

[Sam48]

Someone who spends 40 years doing no wrong at all is a bad person, but someone who spends 40 years on a killing spree is a good person if they accept Jesus just before they go to the Chair. And that makes sense?

Not at all. All non believers will have a chance to accept God in the end (when we die). However, a murderer will not go to heaven for using God as a forgiveness tool so he can keep murdering. (unless, as I stated before, he had no intentions of repenting, and thereby only does it once in the end)

 

[niky]

If modesty didn’t come from Adam and Eve then why don’t animals try to cover up when you look at them in their animal nakedness?

Why don't children cover up when you look at them in their nakedness? Modesty is learned. Not inherited.

I know your making that statement because someone told you the movie was dumb and it wasn’t worth your time to go and see it, right? So well put you down for not able to challenge the facts in post 1921

Because there are no facts in that post. Just the same old stuff we've been discussing for years. If you really want me to answer it, that follows.

And yes Liz when the evolutionist say that we are no different than animals then why don’t they cover up when we look at them in their animal nakedness?

Biologically, a dog differs little from a rat. Why don't people play fetch with rats?

So the Exodus was a Labor issue? “knarly dude”

Why, yes, yes it was. And yet thousands of years later, Christians still used slave labor. The more things change...

-----

Intelligent Design is a study of patterns in nature,

No it isn't. It simply ascribes that patterns in nature came about through conscious design.

A study of patterns in nature seeks to ascertain the cause and nature of these patterns. Intelligent design merely ascribes to these patterns irreducible complexity and proposes that an intelligent designer is necessary to provide for these.

It's the equivalent of the CSI team going into a room, looking at the results of a fight and stating that all the evidence was laid down artfully by a group of propsmen. Which is correct, in this case, but in a real crime investigation, would be laughably inept.

Science doesn't settle for answers for which there is no proof. Which is why Intelligent Design will never be science, no matter how many crackpots petition for it.

Darwin tried to prove that the changes within a species not only leads to new species but to every species and the evidence for that claim is totally lacking,

Do you really want us to retread stuff we've posted at least a dozen times before? We already have evidence for Evolution. There is no evidence against. If you'd like to provide evidence that we can pick apart, go ahead. Otherwise, stop retreading old ground.

where as Darwinism has to do with some concept that orients it’s self around life starting from a spontaneous emergence from a primordial soup AKA from mud to life, or another theory was that life possibly started on the backs of crystals. Maybe it was the alien seeding method…lol…

"Darwinism" doesn't describe the emergence of life. It simply describes how organisms can develop from other organisms. What you're looking for is the origin of life.

Darwin never stated how life began, so isn’t that what has to be looked at first?

Wait, I thought you said that Darwinism theorizes that life started from crystals? Way to contradict yourself in just one post.

When Darwin talked about the common cell back in 1859 he considered it to be quite a simple design, when in fact it is as vast as the galaxy.

Direct quote? A Cell is simple compared to a man. It's complex compared to a molecule. On the scale of size, a cell isn't as vast as a galaxy. It may be likened in its complexity to a galaxy... if a galaxy eats and reproduces. And galaxies don't.

For the world’s first single cell organism to have taken place you had to have a perfectly aligned string of 250 proteins all in the correct order for life to function, approximately one in one trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion for life to have taken place on it's own. For the understanding of the cell to be dealt with, it has to be looked at in a scientific manor

manner... Scientific manner...

just like Darwinism, but because of the unimaginable complexity of it, the Darwinist have to destroy the intelligent design aspect of it by weaving it into creationism, thusly demonizing it as taboo and painting it with the complexity of a randomness luck of the draw. The founders of early modern science Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei most of these scientist not only believed in God but their belief actually made it easier to do science.

Easy, duplicitous attack against Darwin. Darwin was a devout Christian. In fact, he delayed releasing his theory because he feared persecution. he later became an agnostic because he couldn't reconcile his religion with his scientific learning, but he never denied the existence of God.

Irreducible complexity ignores the fact that organisms are only complex after the fact. They can start from simpler organisms. Some point to the incredibly long chains of proteins recorded in DNA, which have to be perfectly recorded for an organism to reproduce. What they ignore is the huge number of junk proteins in each strand of DNA which are copied from generation to generation that have no apparent effect on the growth and development of an organism. These strands of "junk" DNA are used as hereditary markers for genetic studies.

In other words... life didn't need an exact combination. Just one that works. That's why you and I can have vastly different genetic makeups, yet we're still both living, breathing, human beings.

A belief in Darwinism means that we live, we die, then were gone with no kind of deep meaning in life.

Darwinism is a religion? Wow. Tell that to all the Christian biologists, geneticists and paleontologists whose research contributes to Evolutionary Theory.

Case in point Hitler’s Mein Kampf, he used Darwinistic Eugenics to devalue life and we know what that meant, a decrease in the surplus population.

Hitler was a Christian. Say hello to him in Heaven for me.

Nazi Eugenics was racist in nature. Though inspired by Evolutionary Theory, it's interesting to point out that the mass killing of Jews during the Inquisition was inspired by and supported by the Vatican.

At some point you have to be a realist in this whole God thing, either you think your existence is something that is greater than a rock and has a chance that your spirit will go on after your mortality is realized or the human experience is no diffeent than a retarded fish frog. Retarded fish frog pt 2

Which has nothing to do with Evolution being right or not. Evolution is merely a description of how life changes over time. It says nothing about man's spirit or afterlife.

Intelligent Design is like Holy Water to a Vampire

Your simile is missing a piece.... Intelligent Design is to ______ like Holy Water is to a Vampire.

Granted, Vampires don't actually exist (Vampire bats do, but Holy Water does nothing to them), so I don't know where this one was going at all.

 

[McLaren]

@McLaren- I''m simply using my own religion. However there is nothing to say another religion is correct.

Exactly, there is nothing to say another religion is correct, so what makes your own any more factual?

You say we know Jesus will return. How? Because your faith in Christianity says so?

 

[Famine]

But if you killed two and then repented it'd be fine?

Someone who spends 40 years doing no wrong at all is a bad person, but someone who spends 40 years on a killing spree is a good person if they accept Jesus just before they go to the Chair. And that makes sense?

Not at all. All non believers will have a chance to accept God in the end (when we die). However, a murderer will not go to heaven for using God as a forgiveness tool so he can keep murdering. (unless, as I stated before, he had no intentions of repenting, and thereby only does it once in the end)

You just said "not at all" and then confirmed exactly what I was saying.

Do no wrong for a lifetime and don't accept Jesus = Hell
Murder, rape, steal for a lifetime and accept Jesus at the very end = Heaven

 

[Sam48]

Do no wrong for a lifetime and don't accept Jesus = Hell

No. You can still go to heaven if you accept God in purgatory (he will offer so you don't have to).

Plus, the odds of a murderer actually repenting are slim to none.

@McLaren- Nothing makes it more factual, however, the name of the thread is, "Do you believe in God". And judging by the first post and the pole answers, I think he was referring to the christian God.

 

[Famine]

No. You can still go to heaven if you accept God in purgatory (he will offer so you don't have to).

I'm not putting an end limit on it. This is still accurate by your terms:

Do no wrong for a lifetime and don't accept Jesus = Hell
Murder, rape, steal for a lifetime and accept Jesus at the very end = Heaven

Plus, the odds of a murderer actually repenting are slim to none.

It's amazing the number of people who go into prison non-religious and come out - either vertically or horizontally - as Christians. Amazing.

You're defining "good" not as motives, intentions, acts or thoughts, but as a one-time only decision to state belief in your god (and no others). You could be a Christian all your life and live purely by the Bible's teachings but if, at your last moment on Earth (or any afterlife holding patten you choose to cite), you reject Jesus, you won't get a place in Heaven. And at the same time you could be a evil, sadistic rapist, paedophile and murderer but if, at your last moment on Earth (or any afterlife holding patten you choose to cite), you accept Jesus, you will get a place in Heaven.

And that makes sense to you? It sounds fair? Sounds like the act of a benevolent supreme being?

"You've been a right 🤬 all your life, but a microsecond from your death you decided that I'm actually God? Come on in! You've spent 80 years in service to others at the expense of yourself and have never committed a mean or selfish act in your life, but at the last decided that I'm not actually God? Get out."

 

[Dotini]

If the multitudinous reports of the NDE'rs are anything to go by, then "heaven" (or its parlor) is the inevitable destination of all humans, no matter their beliefs or actions in life.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini