Do you believe in God?

[LeftyWright69]

Yes, but I want to know why you believe in him, what is the reason?

First one has to understand that in order for the whole religion thing to work there has to be a little thing called “ Faith “ since no one can prove what was written so long ago without faith, a case for the existence of God has to have that as the primary keystone. What does it take to prove anything? Well you generally need “Facts“. Facts are the whole basis for science unless you’re talking about “Global Warming”, Darwinism (evolutionary biology), or Space Aliens. Science will accept any possibility for life except for one that is guided. Now as in your case since you have stated that you need proof then by definition you must be a skeptic.

If proof of God is what you’re looking for Liz then you have to understand “intelligent design” and how it is a counter point to the whole atheist belief system that is bolstered by Darwinism. Intelligent Design is a study of patterns in nature, Darwin tried to prove that the changes within a species not only leads to new species but to every species and the evidence for that claim is totally lacking, where as Darwinism has to do with some concept that orients it’s self around life starting from a spontaneous emergence from a primordial soup AKA from mud to life, or another theory was that life possibly started on the backs of crystals. Maybe it was the alien seeding method…lol…

Darwin never stated how life began, so isn’t that what has to be looked at first? When Darwin talked about the common cell back in 1859 he considered it to be quite a simple design, when in fact it is as vast as the galaxy. For the world’s first single cell organism to have taken place you had to have a perfectly aligned string of 250 proteins all in the correct order for life to function, approximately one in one trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion for life to have taken place on it's own. For the understanding of the cell to be dealt with, it has to be looked at in a scientific manor just like Darwinism, but because of the unimaginable complexity of it, the Darwinist have to destroy the intelligent design aspect of it by weaving it into creationism, thusly demonizing it as taboo and painting it with the complexity of a randomness luck of the draw. The founders of early modern science Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei most of these scientist not only believed in God but their belief actually made it easier to do science.

A belief in Darwinism means that we live, we die, then were gone with no kind of deep meaning in life. Case in point Hitler’s Mein Kampf, he used Darwinistic Eugenics to devalue life and we know what that meant, a decrease in the surplus population. At some point you have to be a realist in this whole God thing, either you think your existence is something that is greater than a rock and has a chance that your spirit will go on after your mortality is realized or the human experience is no diffeent than a retarded fish frog. Retarded fish frog pt 2

My research was taken from the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, If anyone has the testicular fortitude to look at the greatest case for intelligent design then check it out, it will rock your Atheistic sensibilities.

Intelligent Design is like Holy Water to a Vampire

 

[Duke]

Not really.

 

[Sam48]

Unexplainable? Nothing is "unexplainable" - just "unexplained to date". For which, incidentally, neither "mediums" nor "ghosts" qualify.

You managed to ask the question and provide the answer at the same time. Incidentally, UFOs do exist. Any aerial object with an unknown origin is a UFO.

I think you need to work on what it is you mean when you ask the things you're asking.

So what your saying is that ghosts and mediums do not qualify as evidence because they cannot be logically explained yet. I'm quite confused here.

Anyway, replace UFOs with yetis, and astronomers with the military. Does that count as evidence? If not, wouldn't it be foolish to say there is no evidence of such yetis even though we all saw it?

@LizMcQueen- All we know is that he will come again, as he did 2010 (ish) years ago, and destroy the earth. Everyone will get a chance to accept God in the end, and, if you accept God, you will thereby be granted heaven/eternal life. That's what I'm told.

 

[Public'sTwin]

My research was taken from the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.

Yes. We can tell.

(In case you weren't aware, that film has been both critically panned, and widely discredited.)

If I see hundreds of UFOs along with millions of astronomers and spectators, why would it not count as evidence toward the existence of UFOs even though it didn't happen in a controlled environment?

Do you know what a UFO is?

A UFO is not an alien. A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. An airplane at night, the probability of which you've attributed multiple sightings to as existence of aliens being very high, is a UFO. It is not an alien.

A USO may as well be an Unidentified Swimming Object. It is not, by default, a kraken or Cthulhu.

Similarly, "seeing" God, or experiencing a "miracle"—as Jules in Pulp Fiction attributes 10 bullets missing him to—is not proof of divine intervention. Did divine intervention [Godwin's Law] ever intervene against the most evil, heinous sperm to grace the world back in July of 1888 when Klara and Alois Hitler were copulating? [/Godwin's Law] If any divine intervention could have been used, it was then

So what your saying is that ghosts and mediums do not qualify as evidence because they cannot be logically explained yet. I'm quite confused here.

What is to be confused about testimony which conflicts with the rigors of science? Mediums and ghosts have not been proven because the only evidence of their existence is anecdotal. There are many ways that immaterial things can be proven, and ghosts and mediums have yet to produce any kind of valid or reproduceable method to prove the claims made.

Anyway, replace UFOs with yetis, and astronomers with the military. Does that count as evidence? If not, wouldn't it be foolish to say there is no evidence of such yetis even though we all saw it?

Again, no published, reviewed, documented, and critiqued accounts or interactions exist. Word of mouth is not proof. How is this so confusing?

@LizMcQueen- All we know is that he will come again, as he did 2010 (ish) years ago, and destroy the earth. Everyone will get a chance to accept God in the end, and, if you accept God, you will thereby be granted heaven/eternal life.

Prime example: You made that claim. . .

. . . now prove it.

That's what I'm told.

And that's the problem right there.

 

[Public'sTwin]

--

 

[LeftyWright69]

Yes. We can tell.

So what your saying about the movie is what? Lies, distortions, misdirection’s, what ????? A mouse in your pocket ?????

you sure pic sam's stuff apart, how about my truths?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So what your saying is that ghosts and mediums do not qualify as evidence because they cannot be logically explained yet. I'm quite confused here.

I think he's saying that "ghosts" and "mediums" are explainable...if I'm not wrong.

 

[Public'sTwin]

So what your saying about the movie is what? Lies, distortions, misdirection’s, what ????? A mouse in your pocket ?????

you sure pic sam's stuff apart, how about my truths?

To be honest, I couldn't tell if you were kidding or not. I really hope you were.

 

[Famine]

So what your saying is that ghosts and mediums do not qualify as evidence because they cannot be logically explained yet. I'm quite confused here.

I can tell. You started your sentence by trying to interpret what I'm saying with "So what your saying is" (sic), rather than reading it.

Ghosts do not qualify as evidence of an afterlife because none has ever been seen in controlled conditions. I said this. Mediums do not qualify as evidence of an afterlife because none has ever been able to demonstrate ability in controlled conditions. I said this also. Neither of these sentences needs interpreting.

Your question was thus:

If I see hundreds of UFOs along with millions of astronomers and spectators, why would it not count as evidence toward the existence of UFOs even though it didn't happen in a controlled environment?

Which is misunderstanding, question and answer in one hit. The misunderstanding is that UFOs mean alien spaceships. UFOs are merely any aerial object that cannot be positively identified - UFOs thus exist. I shall reword your sentence so that it becomes the answer:

If I see hundreds of UFOs along with millions of astronomers and spectators, it would not count as evidence toward the existence of UFOs because it didn't happen in a controlled environment.

If any observed phenomenon does not occur - or cannot be recreated - in a controlled environment, it cannot be cited as evidence for any expected outcome. Ghosts, mediums, alien spaceships, yetis, Elvis sightings, you name it.

 

[novcze]

I think that every religion on the Earth is here to give people hope. If that includes believe in God, then it is fine. For some people is hard to accept the fact of death and that's end of our existence (no afterlife or reincarnation, etc.) so they need to have faith.

Personally, I'm more worried about insufficient knowledge of the Universe and overall incapability of the human race influence things on this planet. We can basically just watch what happens and what we call "civilization" might come to an end very quickly.

 

[LeftyWright69]

To be honest, I couldn't tell if you were kidding or not. I really hope you were.

My whole participation in this thread is to add factual voice to the other side. So far it has been met with little regard. Ever heard of the saying “the silence is deafening” since I haven’t read every verbal pugilation between the differing points of view in this thread. Since I don’t know what side of the isle you are on, I just love defending my point of view and and since no one yet has challenged my facts and no one wants to play I guess I win. The movie must be truthful and my facts about Atheism must also be truthful.

 

[DK]

My whole participation in this thread is to add factual voice to the other side. So far it has been met with little regard. Ever heard of the saying “the silence is deafening” since I haven’t read every verbal pugilation between the differing points of view. I just love defending my point of view and I don’t know what side of the isle you are on, and since no one yet has challenged my facts and no one wants to play I guess I win. The movie must be truthful and my facts about Atheism must also be truthful.

I think he's referencing the ancient "Unofficial Opinions Forum Guide", where he's referring to Rules 4 and 6.

 

[LizMcQueen]

All we know is that he will come again, as he did 2010 (ish) years ago, and destroy the earth.

Why does Jesus want to kill us and destroy the earth? Is he a terrorist?
If he wants to do that, Jesus is more evil than the devil.

Everyone will get a chance to accept God in the end, and, if you accept God, you will thereby be granted heaven/eternal life. That's what I'm told.

Everyone? rapists, murderers... accept god in the end and they go to heaven?

 

[LeftyWright69]

Wow Liz I was really thinking that you might have had a question about my prev. post but I guess it speaks for it’s self. Facts are stubborn things and to acknowledge that they exist only shows the vulnerability of your position and ruins the party. I remember when I was carefree and wild, I didn’t want any moralistic guilt that would make me think twice about right and wrong. It sure makes life easier when you don’t have to think that your actions could come back to haunt you. So why worry about murder? Apparently the terrorist don’t, they justify it in the name of God ( Allah ). How fractured is that?

If you don’t believe in God then you don’t have to worry about so many things, Hitler, Stalen, Mussolini, Pol pot, Franco, Castro sure didn’t worry about pesky things like good and evil? Do you think the world would have been a better place if they had been a little more worried about something like Judgment day.

. Where does modesty come from? I’ll bet you if someone walked in on you when you were in your birthday suit you would cover up unconsciously, why? Maybe something about Adam and Eve? Ever felt guilty about telling a lie? Liz every time you think twice about something your saying there is a God

How do you explain The Exodus? Couldn’t Mosses have existed? The Muslims call Jesus one of there profits, why would they do that if he didn’t exits? They certainly don’t’ have any use for the bible, try to take one of those things to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Danoff]

If you don’t believe in God then you don’t have to worry about so many things, Hitler, Stalen, Mussolini, Pol pot, Franco, Castro sure didn’t worry about pesky things like good and evil? Do you think the world would have been a better place if they had been a little more worried about something like Judgment day.

There are better reasons to be moral than fear of retribution. Is that really why you don't go around killing people? Because you're afraid of getting caught? (Either by the police or by God) If so, you're not a moral person. If the threat of hell is the only thing stopping you from terrible things, you're a terrible person.

. Where does modesty come from? I’ll bet you if someone walked in on you when you were in your birthday suit you would cover up unconsciously, why?

You can't come up with any other reason than God?

Ask yourself what might be a good reason for wearing clothing (besides bashfulness). Now ask yourself what behavior might result if everyone wore clothing all the time.

Ever felt guilty about telling a lie? Liz every time you think twice about something your saying there is a God

See above.

 

[LeftyWright69]

So if you need some facts Danoff why don't you comment and po po on my facts post? It sounds like Darwin is a hero of yours, ever heard of intelligent design?. I see you only went after my soft sell post. Cherry picking is different then restling with an elephant. See more above it's post 1921 if you haven't stumbled on to it yet

 

[Danoff]

So if you need some facts Danoff why don't you comment and po po on my facts post? It sounds like Darwin is a hero of yours, ever heard of intelligent design?. I see you only went after my soft sell post. Cherry picking is different then restling with an elephant. See more above

Ok, I read it. It's entertaining. I'll respond to it only if you demonstrate to me that you're willing to have a conversation rather than simply ignoring any points I make so that you can make some of your own. I entered this conversation due to one of your posts (not the one you wanted me to see, but I hadn't seen that one). I commented on one of your posts - made some good points, and to this point you have ignored them, instead directing me to a different post of yours.

I'm happy to respond, but I need a gesture of good faith from you. Respond to the points I made and I will respond to yours. Otherwise I will assume that this is a diversionary tactic indicative of someone I don't have the patience to talk to right now.

 

[McLaren]

All we know is that he will come again, as he did 2010 (ish) years ago, and destroy the earth. Everyone will get a chance to accept God in the end, and, if you accept God, you will thereby be granted heaven/eternal life. That's what I'm told.

Says who? A who-knows-how-old book full of unlikely stories like 1 man managing to save the entire species of animals & what not?

The only thing I believe about Jesus honestly being fact is that he was a real person, mainly because several different religions all reference to him. However, some say he was the son of God & some say he was merely a prophet or good samaritan.

Besides that, as Liz asked, where are the other religions & what says their faith & followings isn't any more important than Christianity.

 

[Sam48]

Why does Jesus want to kill us and destroy the earth? Is he a terrorist?
If he wants to do that, Jesus is more evil than the devil.
Everyone? rapists, murderers... accept god in the end and they go to heaven?

Do you have any understanding of christianity?

@McLaren- I''m simply using my own religion. However there is nothing to say another religion is correct.

 

[Public'sTwin]

Otherwise I will assume that this is a diversionary tactic indicative of someone I don't have the patience to talk to right now.

I think he's trolling, anyway. There's something too...surreal to the posts that I just can't take them to be honest excogitations from someone. Perhaps it's the arrogance and condescension tinged with naivety that I can't take seriously; it rings too comical to me.

 

[niky]

So what your saying about the movie is what? Lies, distortions, misdirection’s, what ????? A mouse in your pocket ?????

you sure pic sam's stuff apart, how about my truths?

If you're quoting from one of the dumbest documentaries of all time, I doubt anyone will take you seriously.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/expelled_no_intelligence_allowed/

http://movies.tvguide.com/expelled-intelligence-allowed/review/293361

http://movies.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/movies/18expe.html

Honestly, there are better resources for an anti-Evolution rant. Much better. Most of everything that is covered in that documentary has been covered before. Pays to actually read a thread before you drop in.

Do you have any understanding of christianity?

Have you even read most of the Bible? I mean, honestly?

 

[Famine]

ever heard of intelligent design

Yep

Do yourself a favour and read every post in this thread and that thread before you continue.

 

[DQuaN]

The things you listed does not say anything about GOD doing a bad job in creating you. for example if GOD did a bad job in creating you maybe he should have put your nose in between your butt-cheeks(now thats an example of a bad job). you being alive this moment is prove that he did not do a bad job.

Just going back to this point quickly...

My girlfriend woke up this morning with horrible stomach cramps, back pain, shivers, feeling very emotional and bleeding from somewhere one does not want to bleed from.

Tell her that this is all part of gods great design and I promise, you will end up bleeding from the same area.

 

[Touring Mars]

The human body is a marvel of staggering complexity - but it's far from perfect - indeed, in some places, it's downright bad design. What is remarkable is that life is capable of working around a problem and producing a solution that not only works, but works well (often perfectly well) even if it means flunking design class. Evolution is the process by which living things do this - it may not be perfect, and it may annoy the living crap out of people who, for whatever reason, hate the idea - but at the very least it is a proper explanation (and most importantly, it is almost certainly the explanation). Crediting and/or blaming an imperceptible and inscrutable designer who most likely doesn't/didn't even exist is not a proper explanation.

 

[Barracuda]

Not anymore, definitely not anymore.

Well maybe a god, maybe, but non of this hokey religion crap. Hypocrisy and hatred is all I see in religion.

 

[niky]

The human body is a marvel of staggering complexity - but it's far from perfect - indeed, in some places, it's downright bad design. What is remarkable is that life is capable of working around a problem and producing a solution that not only works, but works well (often perfectly well) even if it means flunking design class. Evolution is the process by which living things do this - it may not be perfect, and it may annoy the living crap out of people who, for whatever reason, hate the idea - but at the very least it is a proper explanation (and most importantly, it is almost certainly the explanation). Crediting and/or blaming an imperceptible and inscrutable designer who most likely doesn't/didn't even exist is not a proper explanation.

Consider the human body a 2 million year old beta test that's in continuous development. And the debug method is thus: If the system crashes, tough luck, you're ****ed.

Curiously, it's much like Windows. The developers want you to think that you're buying a polished, finished product, but the updates, bug fixes and loophole patches are never-ending.

 

[LizMcQueen]

If you don’t believe in God then you don’t have to worry about so many things, Hitler, Stalen, Mussolini, Pol pot, Franco, Castro sure didn’t worry about pesky things like good and evil? Do you think the world would have been a better place if they had been a little more worried about something like Judgment day.

Another interesting thing is, why church supported dictators?

Where does modesty come from? I’ll bet you if someone walked in on you when you were in your birthday suit you would cover up unconsciously, why? Maybe something about Adam and Eve?

That's your opinion.

Ever felt guilty about telling a lie?

Never.

How do you explain The Exodus?

labor problems with egyptians?

The Muslims call Jesus one of there profits, why would they do that if he didn’t exits? They certainly don’t’ have any use for the bible, try to take one of those things to Saudi Arabia.

I didn't say that Jesus never existed, as McLaren said:

The only thing I believe about Jesus honestly being fact is that he was a real person, mainly because several different religions all reference to him. However, some say he was the son of God & some say he was merely a prophet or good samaritan.

Do you have any understanding of christianity?

Yes (unfortunately my father is like Sarah Palin) but I'm asking as a person without knowledge of religion.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Jesus was like the David Blain/Derren Brown of his time! Thing is, 2000 years ago, people were more easily fooled by tricks and would natuarlly think that a Magician like Jesus must be the son of God after pulling off some pretty neat tricks. Just a shame that people are still being fooled to this day, especially considering how much we know about the earth and ourslelves.

 

[DK]

Another interesting thing is, why church supported dictators?

Let's use an example here. In Fascist Italy, Mussolini made Catholicism the state religion. Pope Pius XI basically couldn't give a damn about the various human rights abuses in Fascist Italy. Many of Mussolini's policies were influenced by the Church. For example, one of Mussolini's propaganda "battles" resulted in mothers of large families being rewarded for having larger families, and the Church, as far as I can tell, has promoted large families (as long as it was inside the confines of marriage).

There were a lot of people in Ireland in the 1930s who were dismayed that Catholicism wasn't made the state religion, and many of whom had far-right beliefs. A group, nicknamed the "Blueshirts" because of the uniform they wore, had strong Catholic beliefs and many had anti-Semitic sentiments.

In Franco's Spain, Catholicism was made the state religion as well. I heard that many Moorish artifacts and buildings were destroyed, because it was a reminder from the time Spain was predominantly Muslim.

(unfortunately my father is like Sarah Palin)

I kinda feel sorry for you, I don't like Palin either.

 

[Duke]

So what your saying is that ghosts and mediums do not qualify as evidence because they cannot be logically explained yet. I'm quite confused here.

Anyway, replace UFOs with yetis, and astronomers with the military. Does that count as evidence? If not, wouldn't it be foolish to say there is no evidence of such yetis even though we all saw it?

No, he's saying that they don't qualify as evidence because no one has ever actually demonstrated unambiguously that the phenomenon (whatever it is) is caused by "spirits" or even if a phenomenon exists at all.

And what yetis have we all seen? All I've seen is some shaky Super-8mm footage from a long distance away of something that could easily have been a guy in a gorilla suit. ONE piece of footage, never duplicated, never substantiated. I'm certainly willing to believe yeti could exist, but I'm far from convinced that they must exist.

After all, even the coelacanth has been caught multiple times since first being rediscovered about 50 years ago.

@LizMcQueen- All we know is that he will come again, as he did 2010 (ish) years ago, and destroy the earth. Everyone will get a chance to accept God in the end, and, if you accept God, you will thereby be granted heaven/eternal life. That's what I'm told.

We know this... how, exactly? Based on a preponderance of statistical evidence showing a distinct causal trend of messiahs rising from the dead and returning to destroy the Earth's population? From a large sample of repeated events over an extended period of time?