Do you believe in God?

[aarror]

This thread looks like it might start getting nasty soon. In my opinion, anyone can believe in what they wish to believe in. If you religious people want to think that there is a god up there that can save you from the evil inside (I don't really understand religion, so don't rip my head off if I'm wrong) then thats okay with me.

I choose to think that there is not a god, I don't particularly like the idea that someone is controlling my life. I do have one problem with religion though, and that is the fact that religions always try to stuff their beliefs down my throat, when I choose not to believe. I dont care what you believe in, just dont force it on me. If you believe in flying pony gods, thats okay, jsut don't force it on others.

Oh, and just some food for thought, many of the worlds problems are caused by people attempting to force others into their beliefs. If we all just let each other think freely, the world would be a much better place.

On a somber note, RIP all who were killed in Norway on friday.

 

[Joey D]

I can tell you the posters' feelings in this thread that religion is a mental illness are genuine, but not with ill intent. Mental illness, in my eyes, is too strong a term. I don't know of any scientific studies which conclusively show that to be true. However, I feel that a belief that the events in the bible are true is at least a delusion, a lack of effort to search for real answers. And especially, those who won't accept evolution, but accept the church's replacements, creationism or superevolution, are extremely deluded.

You could easily make the exact same arguments for atheism if you wanted to, however I wouldn't because I think the whole idea of this is just ridiculous. I wasn't around at the time of creation, whatever that creation may be, so I have absolutely no idea how it happened. For all anyone knows the stories in the Bible could be mostly true, they could be based on tales of stories taken out of context, they could be borrowed from other religion, or they could be just made up entirely. I don't know.

I'm not suggestion that I do believe in it, but I can't say for a fact that it didn't happen, only with decent amount of certainty.

The atheist desire to get theists to question their religion does not come out of a desire to insult, prove wrong, hurt, or certainly not delude or confuse. When an atheist argues with a theist, it is out of a genuine desire to help them, to get them to see the truth they have missed by ignoring things that conflict with their religion. I am sure a theist tries to do the same thing when arguing, to try and get atheists to see the truth in religion (except apparantly buggs1a, who seems to have given up).

From what I've seen theists do the exact same thing as you've pointed out. So if you dislike it so much when they try to push their beliefs on you, why do the same thing to them? It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black if you ask me.

The difference is that atheists rarely convert to religions, because there is simply no reason to. No argument made by a theist can ever convince a logical person that god exists, simply because all the arguments are based on a book, and the only evidence the book relates to god is in the book itself, making it irrelevant. Atheists convert to religion out of fear. The fear that for not believing, they will be tortured for all eternity in the afterlife. Even though there is no way to prove that such a thing happens, people think it's worth accepting, since if they're wrong there's no penalty. However, they fail to realize the possibility of a god who rewards logical thinking with eternal happiness, and punishes those who blindly follow others. Statistically, the odds are the same.

The logical choice is to admit that any or no gods may exist, with no indication what is true until death (perhaps). However, atheists, as opposed to agnostics, tend to assume there is no god for the same reason they assume unicorns don't exist. There is simply no evidence.

I was a devout atheist, look back through some of my earlier posts in this thread and the Creation v. Evolution thread. You'll see that I thought very much the same way as you did with regards to the supernatural. However, I've changed from someone who was a preachy atheist to someone who is more in the realm of theism now, I tell people that I'm an agnostic with theist leanings, meaning I don't know but I think there is something out there.

I didn't convert to this belief out of fear, I converted to this belief out of way to many unanswered questions that I don't think science can ever explain. Mainly things like what caused the Big Bang? Where did the matter come from? What gave the initial spark for life to begin on Earth which ultimately evolved into a diverse planet? And so on. I accept most scientific theories, I think we did evolve from a common ancestor with chimps (to put it in very simple terms). I think the universe was created from the Big Bang. Hell I even subscribe to the multiverse theory and all this quantum physics type stuff.

I don't have any fear of the afterlife, I don't know what happens to us when we die but it's not something I think about or live my life on. I'm doing good on Earth because it makes society suck less, not to get into an afterlife that may or may not exist. However, the question of what happens in death can make one question if there is a god.

I think it's also important to remember the the belief in god and religion are not mutually exclusive. I know several people who believe in a higher power but wouldn't classify themselves as religious, just spiritual. They just believe in God, nothing more, nothing less.

Based on my own personal research, soul searching and thinking, I feel it is logical to believe in a higher power especially when some of the questions I posed earlier come up. I don't think it's logical for something just to happen without an action, which is one reason I don't subscribe to any religion. So what caused the Big Bang in the first place? To my a logical thought is a force outside of our realm, something considered supernatural. I'm not saying I believe god is a big white guy with a long beard and shoots lightning bolts. What I am saying is I believe god is some kind of force in the universe that is beyond our realm of comprehension.

Edit #2: What I find more frustrating though, is when religious people try to defend their religion as if there is evidence that it is true. The nature of faith is that it cannot be proven true or false, whether the stories associated with it happened or not. I don't care if you're trying to get me to accept your religion or not, telling me it is provably true is a lie. Either you are purposely lying, or just have no concept of what proof is. Both are aggravating and quite sad, to say the least. That's why I feel the need to get involved in this thread. I urge anyone with questions about this post to ask them.

I feel the same way with atheist's though you are trying to prove the unprovable. There is no way to prove whether god exists or not, in whatever form, so to me I find it irritating when atheist's say that there can't be a god at all. In order to disprove god you need to prove everything in the universe, which I don't really believe is possible to do.

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

I HAVE COME TO BRING THE GOOD NEWS! BUGGS1A IS AN INTERNET TROLL! THOU SHALT LISTEN TO THE GOOGLE SEARCH ENGINE, THOU SHALT NOT USE OTHERS SEARCH ENGINE'S!
LOLZ... just kidding guys. I see that there is some nice internet beef going on in here, so I just wanted to make it more interesting by declaring Buggs1A an internet troll!

 

[Tic Tach]

This thread should not exist. Too much fighting and arguing and rudeness.

I disagree. I can understand why you would want this thread to go away, for your wild baseless assertions and beliefs are being erroded and undermined, and that frightens you because you've been brainwashed into believing in the "hell" monstrosity. I'm curious: Are your parents christians?

Also, Christians probably should stay away.

I can also understand why you would want this to be so, for the more people who also share your false beliefs, the easier it is for your mind. But I can assure you that if there was no christianity or religion at all, and you stumbled across and read the trainwreck-of-a-book we know as the bible, you would think it's authors were insane.

All you non believers won't change no matter what anyone says even if you say you might, you won't.

I will in an instant. I just require good evidence and reason. Christianity offers none.

It is impossible to believe without the holy spirit.

Then how does one begin to believe if belief requires the holy spirit? Do you see how that makes no sense? Besides, why is "belief" without evidence so important to your imagined god?

Since none of you care and you all have hard hearts you can't believe.

Ahh the old "hardened hearts" routine; I was waiting for that. You fail to appreciate that many atheists were once believers like yourself, me included. For me, what caused me to jettison the beliefs that I was raised with was not rebellion; I wasn't hurt by anyone, wasn't angry, didn't wish to live some immoral life; no, I just care more about what is true over what is comforting, indoctrinated or familiar. I couldn't silence the cognitive dissonance in my mind any longer, knowing deep down that what I was led to believe, wasn't true. And that's all this is about; are the beliefs of religion in general and christianity in particular true, or not true, and the moment you activate the critical thinking skills which you (hopefully) employ in every other aspect of your life, combined with intellectual honesty, then and only then will a person develop a distaste for holding crazy, false beliefs.

Claiming that all non-believers have "hard hearts" is a cop-out, and yet another arrogant effort to claim a moral superiority. I do debate this issue aggressively, because I'm very familiar with how the brain-rape of christi-insanity goes, and yes, it angers me to see so many individuals have their minds turned to stone, but I am far from hard-hearted, trust me.

Since abanding the delusion of christianity ~25 years ago, my life and mental well-being has improved in a HUGE way. I look back on the person I was and the beliefs I held with utter embarrassment.

One day you will know the truth and stand before God.

The tool you are using here is FEAR. Maybe that worked on your young mind, but it won't work here. Notice how you dismiss the threats of hell when a Muslim informs you that you are going to hell for not accepting Islam. Now see how I dismiss your tissue-thin threat.


Please watch.

 

[dylansan]

Based on my own personal research, soul searching and thinking, I feel it is logical to believe in a higher power especially when some of the questions I posed earlier come up. I don't think it's logical for something just to happen without an action, which is one reason I don't subscribe to any religion. So what caused the Big Bang in the first place? To my a logical thought is a force outside of our realm, something considered supernatural. I'm not saying I believe god is a big white guy with a long beard and shoots lightning bolts. What I am saying is I believe god is some kind of force in the universe that is beyond our realm of comprehension.

Thank you for responding. I disagree with your conclusion that something must have caused the universe. If something had to cause the universe, something would have had to cause it, logically. And something had to come before that, and so on. If there is a supernatural, it would have had to be a result of an earlier existence which caused it to form. It is my belief that the universe has always been, and probably always will be, though we currently have no way of knowing what happened before the big bang.

I also have a more optimistic view of science. I think everything can be discovered in enough time. As long as humans don't destroy themselves, and the universe doesn't end first, I believe humans can theoretically solve any problem. If not humans, then some other culture.

As far as being a preachy atheist, if people really considered everything about their religion, questioned it, analyzed it, tested it, and then determined that it was in their best interest to believe it, I would have no problem, and I wouldn't have any reason to post here. However, I have reason to believe that most people don't go through this process, and I find that a waste. Realize that I don't want anyone to become an atheist without a reason. An atheist who doesn't understand atheism (or theism) is just as bad as a theist who doesn't understand either. I aim not to convert anyone to atheism, just to ensure that everyone knows exactly what they believe and why. Currently I fear there are very few people for whom that is actually true.

Edit: Tic Tach, as an atheist, I find that your methods for arguing with Christians is helping no one. You're not convincing anyone to think about their beliefs, but making them think atheists are hateful and do not understand. You are hurting your own cause. I urge you to be more considerate of other people's beliefs. Everyone is human, and everyone has a reason for believing what they believe. Whether it is a good reason is up to them to determine, but only by thinking critically themselves. You are not encouraging people to think, just telling them what is true and what isn't, and I find it just as frustrating as a Christian who expects everyone to accept the bible as absolute truth.

 

[Tic Tach]

I would still like to see a solid argument on why god can't exist.

I don't want books....

Geesh, I think you're really limiting your intake of information by demanding that a few individuals on a video gaming forum take the time to compose and spoon-feed you some long-winded complex article. I offered a link to an awesome book by a freekin' brainiac who works in this field, but you push that aside?!?!

Pfft.

 

[Tesla]

One thing I'm just curious about is why so many atheist seem to be bothered so much by theists? A vast majority of theists do not push their beliefs on other people, they are happy to live their life, attend services, do good because they feel it's their god's will and generally live a happy life. How does that in any way hurt you? Honestly I'd rather be friends with a bunch of do gooding theists then a bunch of argumentative atheists any day. Even if I don't believe in the same god as them or have the same beliefs, I think as long as you're doing good for society then it doesn't really matter.

I don't have a problem with theists who keep their beliefs to themselves, or only with others who share those beliefs. But when you get people who argue that their beliefs should be accepted as fact by everyone, or if they go around public places preaching christianity or islam, where they become an annoyance to the general public, then I have a problem with them.

 

[aarror]

I don't have a problem with theists who keep their beliefs to themselves, or only with others who share those beliefs. But when you get people who argue that their beliefs should be accepted as fact by everyone, or if they go around public places preaching christianity or islam, where they become an annoyance to the general public, then I have a problem with them.

+1:tup:

 

[homeforsummer]

Being offensive is not a reason to abandon treatment and ignore an illness.

It is if it's not an illness and doesn't need treating.

I'm not saying I would be a judge on whether it's wrong of them to delude themselves of reality for their lives or the risk to others from a spreading of the sentiment. That would be done by professionals in neuroscience or something. There would be assessments, and they could live freely in society, as long as hand in hand with that the general public are aware they are in circulation and educated to the needs of these religious people mixing in the community.

Perhaps if they were branded somehow... oh wait, that's been done before.

It would be down to different governments to decide how to handle religious people.

Why? Is it up to the governments to decide how to handle gay people? Or blacks? Or people who cheese? No, because none of those things are automatically something the rest of the world should care about either.

There are regulations on drink, drugs and similar because their consumption can be detrimental to the individual and the rest of society very easily. Religion is not like that.

Ideally in the future I would like to know what people live near me are known as religious, for example using the same sex offenders scheme there is in the United States where when somebody moves into the neighbourhood the community get informed. I would also not want religious people near schools in case pupils are preached to or subverted. But that's just how I feel, that may not be something that can be justified by authorities. Depends on the moral decision making.

Of course it isn't something that can be justified by authorities.

And "moral decision making" would be in favour of an all-inclusive approach that didn't discriminate against someone simply for what they believed in. It's utterly ridiculous suggesting there should be something akin to the sex offenders register - you do realise that the reason sex offenders have such a list is because they're a danger to others, right?

Put it this way, would you prefer your child to be molested, or prefer them to go to a school that might feature religious teaching as one of its lessons?

And if the latter, why should it no longer be up to the individual to choose whether or not they wanted to believe the whole God thing? I went to Catholic schools from 4 years old until 18 years old. I'm an atheist - work that one out.

The thing is religion must be highlighted as an illness, otherwise religious people might get into positions of responsibility, like teachers or in politics, having a leader of the government as religious is mind boggling worrying. How can they make proper decisions when they don't even know what reality is?

Why is it worrying? And why should it automatically have an impact on their jobs?

The subject of George "God told me to do it" Bush came up earlier about the Iraq war. Were you really more convinced that it was his religion rather than the politics of gaining a stronger hold on a source of oil for the biggest-consuming nation on the planet that caused the war? The Iraq war had two main objectives, neither of which were religious: stronger hold on an oil-producing nation, and killing a dictator that would satiate the West's search for a scapegoat for terrorism.

Once again: everyone is different. Religion isn't automatically dangerous, no more than being gay is automatically an HIV risk. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

I like the irony of someone claiming religious people should effectively be branded saying they're worried if religious people get into positions of authority and power. I'd rather have someone religious but sane than someone who wants everyone to be segregated according to their beliefs.

It is impossible to believe without the holy spirit. Since none of you care and you all have hard hearts you can't believe. Christians can say anything and it all could be true and fact and already proven but none of you care. You just argue and trash talk Christians and their God. Satan has blinded some of you.

Since I'm a kind and loving people to those around me, I guess it doesn't matter I don't believe in God. What? It does? And I'm still going to hell? That makes perfect sense.

There's so much fighting and arguing etc that this thread needs to be deleted.

Or you could learn to discuss things a bit more intelligently, just as we've been doing for the last 130-odd pages without you.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Hmmmmmmm....

Perhaps you need to look at the bible critically, instead of uncritically.

Here's a start:

http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/index2.html

http://www.godisimaginary.com/i5.htm

I don't agree with him either, but that doesn't mean any of us have a personal mission to enlighten another human. If he believes in it then let him be, if it kills you that much maybe you should take your energy to something that yields better results. Cause really watching you or even the religious side go back and forth trying to convice the other is just funny really, but then it becomes counter productive. So maybe you should save your soap box for a crowd that isn't indifferent to you. I'm not either a religious person or an athiest I'm in the middle of the two, and dont try to paint it like this argument is just black and white. Just saying

 

[Crispy]

A little I guess. Though the idea that "God" put us on Earth to live perfect lives is entirely BS. I mean look at the different races. If you really look at it, weren't they basically put on this Earth to be screwed over by white people? I mean, it might be a little racist, but its true. The Bible I think mentions punishing Black People, which is entirely not right. And in Africa, they've been getting screwed over since the dawn of time. This is where I don't believe in creationism. (There really is an ism for everything ism't there?) If it was true, than every race other than white were put here to be punished for who they are.

 

[Prosthetic]

A big problem I think with most religions.. they shove it down there kids throat. I have experienced this and it isn't fun. I grew up going to church with my sister and mother.. I got on my knees and ate Jesus's foreskin and drank his piss but at the age of 7 or so I told my mom I didn't want to go anymore. And that was fine with her, I went out and did stuff with my dad on Sunday mornings which is some of my fondness times with him.

But my dads brothers family are ultra religious (Presbyterian.) One Christmas are families got together and on the eve my cousins parents were ultra pissed that no one wanted to go to Church. She got yelled at for not wanting to go... I understand that its Christmas, but I was stuck with my family and I would likely never celebrate it if I had a choice. But that really turned me off and its completely wrong to force it onto your child like that.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

A little I guess. Though the idea that "God" put us on Earth to live perfect lives is entirely BS. I mean look at the different races. If you really look at it, weren't they basically put on this Earth to be screwed over by white people? I mean, it might be a little racist, but its true. The Bible I think mentions punishing Black People, which is entirely not right. And in Africa, they've been getting screwed over since the dawn of time. This is where I don't believe in creationism. (There really is an ism for everything ism't there?) If it was true, than every race other than white were put here to be punished for who they are.

Uh that's not absolutely right...it kinda goes both ways really there are areas in Africa where whites are being treated wrongly and the Black majority are the higher ups with money take over the land, but it is supposedly being reallocated to the poor. Truth is the Poor class blacks aren't given that land and in truth it goes to the corrupted up tier of their gov't who are injustly punishing hte white farmers all for being white no matter what legal papers they have for the purchase of their land.

 

[buggs1a]

A little I guess. Though the idea that "God" put us on Earth to live perfect lives is entirely BS. I mean look at the different races. If you really look at it, weren't they basically put on this Earth to be screwed over by white people? I mean, it might be a little racist, but its true. The Bible I think mentions punishing Black People, which is entirely not right. And in Africa, they've been getting screwed over since the dawn of time. This is where I don't believe in creationism. (There really is an ism for everything ism't there?) If it was true, than every race other than white were put here to be punished for who they are.

God created humans to have a personal relationship with him. He wants to bless us forever and show his unending love for us all.

The bible does not say anything about blacks and how to enslave them or anything close.

I believe in the bible because of the holy spirit as ive said many times before. Also i have faith. And i onow the bible says stuff for us to do and not do and what will happen when we do or dont obey. Also Jesus and others have told us of.things.that will happen in the future.and they did.happen and will happen. Some stuff has been proven in our history. And Jesus says how.things will be shortly before his.return and we are.heading in that direction. Things are mo ing forward and being put in place.

As i said before, you all fant know and cant believe anything i say or what other christians say without the holy spirit and since.you dont believe and you have not asked for Jesus forgiveness and made.him your saviour then you cant understand any of.this.

I didnt get alot of what i knew about the bible until after i made Jesus my lord and saviour. Once i did then the bible became clear and i understand the bible now. I didnt understand before.i kade jesus my lord and now i do after i confessed my sins to him and asked.him to come into my heart.

 

[homeforsummer]

God created humans to have a personal relationship with him. He wants to bless us forever and show his unending love for us all.

And assuming that God didn't create humans, what then?

And do you think Jesus would give you a hand with spelling, punctuation and grammar? I'm finding your posts really hard to read.

 

[dylansan]

As i said before, you all fant know and cant believe anything i say or what other christians say without the holy spirit and since.you dont believe and you have not asked for Jesus forgiveness and made.him your saviour then you cant understand any of.this.

Why do you keep telling us this? What good does it do, if you have already decided there is no help for us? Instead of posting this over and over, why don't you try actually answering some of our questions?

 

[MuRRe]

Therefore, if there is a path in society towards good, it is my belief that christianity has been the main engine pushing for it. And I am glad that it is in societies traditionally christian that such concepts as Human Rights first appeared.

Yeah, just take credit for everything...

Believing in God and in the Bible is really convenient, sometimes I wish I was deeply religious so when my cousin died in a car crash I could just say "It was in God's big plan", and then when another cousin took his own life I could do the same thing again.

 

[PeterJB]

I HAVE COME TO BRING THE GOOD NEWS! BUGGS1A IS AN INTERNET TROLL! THOU SHALT LISTEN TO THE GOOGLE SEARCH ENGINE, THOU SHALT NOT USE OTHERS SEARCH ENGINE'S!
LOLZ... just kidding guys. I see that there is some nice internet beef going on in here, so I just wanted to make it more interesting by declaring Buggs1A an internet troll!

He isn't a troll. He's just borderline fundamentalist.

 

[DK]

I am public man and I believe the bible is the word of God and is true in every word.

Including Deuteronomy 22:28-29, which says:

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

And let's look at Deuetronomy 21:10-14:

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

Oh, look, more approval of rape!

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labour. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

And let's throw in Luke 12:47-48 for good measure:

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

buggs1a, do you seriously approve of rape and slavery? You said that you believed every word of the Bible is true.

 

[Exorcet]

As i said before, you all fant know and cant believe anything i say or what other christians say without the holy spirit and since.you dont believe and you have not asked for Jesus forgiveness and made.him your saviour then you cant understand any of.this.

So what about me? Confirmed (so I've should have the Spirit) and perfectly loyal to God for years, even before I was confirmed, before I had a logical awakening. I prayed, attributed anything good to being a gift from God, I had all of this pressed into me from the beginning. It took a bit work trying to get it out too.

I don't mean to offend you, but as someone who was brought up to be religious, I do see where the idea of religion as a mental illness can come from, as presented by Moot. I personally don't know if it's an illness, but I am sure that my judgment was clouded for a very long time and I'm lucky that I'm able to think straight today.

 

[Joey D]

Thank you for responding. I disagree with your conclusion that something must have caused the universe. If something had to cause the universe, something would have had to cause it, logically. And something had to come before that, and so on. If there is a supernatural, it would have had to be a result of an earlier existence which caused it to form. It is my belief that the universe has always been, and probably always will be, though we currently have no way of knowing what happened before the big bang.

And this is where the existence of a supernatural being comes in for me. I do believe to an extent in that many universes have come before ours and it's a cycle of expanding and contracting (to put it simply) but I just can't accept something having no beginning that is of this realm. Whatever started the universe's cycle can't be governed by the law of physics, at least in my opinion.

I do question what caused or created a supernatural force too, so it's not like it's just blind faith that says the supernatural would have no beginning or end. However, I think that when something exists outside this realm, it is probably governed by a different set of rules.

I also have a more optimistic view of science. I think everything can be discovered in enough time. As long as humans don't destroy themselves, and the universe doesn't end first, I believe humans can theoretically solve any problem. If not humans, then some other culture.

I am fairly optimistic of science, I think a lot of things can be explained to have a logical backing behind them. This is why I generally accept evolution as to why humans are here today. However, I just feel like there are some things the human mind is not capable of comprehending and that can never be explains since there will always be the question of "what caused that?". At some point you get so far back on the line, it no longer makes any sense and the supernatural takes over, at least for me.

As far as being a preachy atheist, if people really considered everything about their religion, questioned it, analyzed it, tested it, and then determined that it was in their best interest to believe it, I would have no problem, and I wouldn't have any reason to post here. However, I have reason to believe that most people don't go through this process, and I find that a waste. Realize that I don't want anyone to become an atheist without a reason. An atheist who doesn't understand atheism (or theism) is just as bad as a theist who doesn't understand either. I aim not to convert anyone to atheism, just to ensure that everyone knows exactly what they believe and why. Currently I fear there are very few people for whom that is actually true.

To this I agree. I think people should investigate why they believe the way they do. By looking at the world around you, asking questions and doing some soul searching yourself, you will eventually end up with an answer that works for you, whether it's atheism or theism. I think one should always be asking questions and modifying their beliefs with more information they get and the more answers they receive.

I do feel like one of the problems with someone so rooted in an idea is that they are unable to open their mind enough to even hear out the other side. It's what's ruined politics in America for me.

I don't have a problem with theists who keep their beliefs to themselves, or only with others who share those beliefs. But when you get people who argue that their beliefs should be accepted as fact by everyone, or if they go around public places preaching christianity or islam, where they become an annoyance to the general public, then I have a problem with them.

Just as I don't have a problem with atheist who do the exact same thing. Healthy discussion on the topic is always good as it makes you think about something and even examine your own beliefs, but trying to shove any idea down someone's throat isn't going to work.

When it comes to the belief in God really think both sides should be a little more open minded about the possibility of each other being right, or at least right to a degree.

 

[Tic Tach]

I don't agree with him either, but that doesn't mean any of us have a personal mission to enlighten another human.

It's not a "mission", it's a discussion on a discussion forum. When religion does indeed attempt to wriggle its way into so many areas of other peoples lives, why should it be free from criticism and inquiry?

If he believes in it then let him be, if it kills you that much maybe you should take your energy to something that yields better results.

Why? Because you say so? How do you know what the results are? Have you been into the future to see the results of all of this internet discussion? I suggest that it is productive, even if it's planting seeds of doubt. Please watch.

Cause really, watching you or even the religious side go back and forth trying to convice the other is just funny really, but then it becomes counter productive.

Then don't watch. That's odd that you would watch something that you don't enjoy.

I'm not either a religious person or an athiest I'm in the middle of the two, and don't try to paint it like this argument is just black and white.

Actually it is black or white, in the same way that astrology being a true representation of how the universe works and how we should live our lives and makes decisions is either true or not true. There really is a personal god, or there really isn't. It's that simple, and we approach the question using all of the tools we have available, like evidence, reason, logic, rationality, etc. Those same tools that we use when any claim is made. Only lies require faith.

Your claim that you are in the "middle of the two" appears to me to suggest that you haven't thought about it much or you don't like to take a stand on the issue. An atheist is an agnostic who's thought about it.

The bible does not say anything about blacks and how to enslave them or anything close.

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.


When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.


When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21]


Oh wait, it didn't actually mention "black people", I guess it's ok then.

I believe in the bible because of the holy spirit as I've said many times before.

No, you believe in the bible because (I sense) it is what your parents have raised you in, and/or it is the particular belief that is popular in your particular country and point in time. What religious views do you suspect you would have if you were born in Peru 700 years ago?

Also i have faith.

Yes, and it is this poison that you need to rid yourself of. For faith is the effort to believe what you know isn't true.

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. (Benjamin Franklin)


Please watch.




.

Instead of posting this over and over, why don't you try actually answering some of our questions?

Because he doesn't have any answers that hold water. This is the common tactic of many theists; ignore the debunking, and just keep coming back with the same old material.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Tic Tach it's almost funny how you talk like a fundamentalist religious. I'm done here, after achieving a few goals:

1 - Highlight that, unlike some were trying to pass on without retort, the historical existence of Jesus THE MAN is scientifically more accepted than it is refuted.

2 - Highlight how the "mental illness" theory was already taken to practise by the communist states, we know the result of that.

3 - Highlight how calling for all the bad things done centuries ago by christians is as relevant to christianity today as highlighting the crimes commited by all our ancestors in the history of mankind and up to just a few decades ago.

4 - Highlight that tolerance is not an exclusive of atheists, and intolerance is not an exclusive of theists.

5 - In any case, the issue in this topic isn't none of the above topics. It's is about the BELIEF IN GOD.

And that, my atheist friends, is all about FAITH. And any FAITH; to be real, must have the seeds of doubt built in. Sort of there's no heroicity if there is no fear to overcome.

So, thank you all atheists for trying to plant some seeds of doubt. However, the general arrogance and agressiveness you use make those seeds steryle. It really turns this discussion into muscle flexing, not much to think about even less nothing much to sink in and think about later.

Peace, I'm going to play GT5 now.

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

He isn't a troll. He's just borderline fundamentalist.

Well, he is a fundamentalist troll then.

On topic: Religion was just made by humans, therefore it is full of holes, two of the biggest holes are Corruption and Greed. The two biggest holes came from Humanity. Which made religion. Therefore, Religion is unfound and just a bunch of nonsense.

 

[Jay.]

I don't believe in God, though I do believe in Jesus, but I believe Jesus was just a drug induced illusionist.

Something to think about....

Joseph and Mary were the parents of Jesus,
but Jesus was the son of God.

So this must mean that Mary was a slapper and slept with God behind Josephs back.

I don't believe and never will do. I believe in science and evolution. The bible is just a book of stories.

All my own opinions, obviously.

 

[PeterJB]

I don't believe in God, though I do believe in Jesus, but I believe Jesus was just a drug induced illusionist.

Something to think about....

Joseph and Mary were the parents of Jesus,
but Jesus was the son of God.

So this must mean that Mary was a slapper and slept with God behind Josephs back.

I don't believe and never will do. I believe in science and evolution. The bible is just a book of stories.

All my own opinions, obviously.

You do realise that Joseph was aware that he wasn't Jesus' biological father?

 

[DK]

I don't believe in the Immaculate Conception of Jesus. Personally, I think Jesus was conceived like any other human being until the invention of IVF for humans.

 

[176OES]

Language warning

No, dont believe in God.

And I absolutely despise religion. Regardless of the existence/non-existence of God, religion is the creation of man and as a result is incredibly flawed.

 

[Sam48]

A big problem I think with most religions.. they shove it down there kids throat.

As if that doesn't happen with atheism as well? I know plenty of people who were once atheist and are now christians.

 

[Tic Tach]

I know plenty of people who were once atheist and are now christians.

Actually, the reverse is occuring. People are abandoning the false beliefs of christianity in very large numbers. The more educated, civilized and affluent a country is, the more this will occur, and the more uneducated, impoverished and primitive a country is, the less this will occur.

Those "atheists" you claim who have signed up to the rediculous, were likely not the sort of atheists who really think & read much on the subject, rather they are likely just people who have never thought about it much, and joined a church for social, or other poor reasons; like:


- Comfort.

- The promise of eternal life.

- Fear of death.

- Desire for fellowship with others (a social outlet).

- A sense of belonging.

- A sense of community.

- Emotional dissatisfaction with the logical implications of not having a god belief.

- Personal injustice or victimhood.

- Personal misfortune such as disability, injury, illness, or the loss of a loved one. (crutch syndrome).
(I know a guy who became a christian right after having a heart attack).

- Personal failure or crisis related to substance abuse, gambling, guilty conscience, imprisonment, etc.

- Personal dissatisfaction with one’s social, romantic, or vocational circumstances.

- Desire to reform one's morality or behavior.

- Desire for hope in divine reward.

- Fear of eternal damnation.

- Feelings of guilt or shame (the slick time-worn tools of christianity).

- Non thinking, or a lazyness in thinking, including a love for pat-answers.

- A failure of an education system.

- A desire (and need) for a certain "governance" in their lives.

- A certain child-like emotional trigger activated in the brain by a story in which they are loved by an authority figure or imaginary being.