Do you feel GTP is becoming over moderated?

[Keef]

No. The rules here are upheld by everyone and the moderators so much better than any other forum I'm a member of. Things that go on at Honda-Tech and local car club forums can get downright pathetic. Good humor is welcome, but when the staff starts initiating attacks and randomly banning people because they don't like the car they drive it gets out of hand. I think most of the moderators exercise their mod-powers in a way the majority of the forum agrees with. Sometimes not. I've never personally seen anyone hurt by a misuse of their privileges. My encounters, unfortunately, have been justified.

 

[PARAGON GT]

Nope . . . Not one bit.

Actually, I give them kudos for taking on the task of keeping things in line.
I use to be a Moderator on another forum. And let me say that its not easy trying to keep everything running smoothly, or keeping everyone happy. You have to deal with a LOT of negativity towards you and what you have been asked to do. Keeping the site clean, enforcing the site rules

(Which we all agreed to do when we signed up if I remember right.)

 

[Wolfe]

There's much more bickering about issues of moderation than there is actual moderation.

 

[Jordan]

I can see why some would think the site is over moderated. After all a lot of things that are acceptable in other forums and in certain segments of society would simply not fly here, but we have to remember that this is a family site and although a lot of us are more mature, a lot of young kids also visit this site. Jordan understands his responsibility in having a game based website/forum which caters to all steps of life in a way that will not leave him open to criticism or in a worst case scenario even legal action.

I think we're all just growing up and realizing there are more younger members that need their ears and eyes protected. I'm not criticizing it, because I was young on here at one point, but I think the term "a family environment" to be quite novel. I just imagine momma bear and poppa bear and the little cubs sit down after dinner and check their subscribed threads. I tend to mostly behave myself here as if it were a big school, whereas it is easy to treat is like a big bar or lounge. I think that's more or less how the mods run the place too. I'm on other boards where the average age is much much higher than here and they have identical politics and bickering and issues. It's more of how an open tolerant internet community works, and not these specific mods and EULA.

I would once again like to reiterate that I am not interested in 'protecting' anyone or any age group from any type of content. I want a mature, intelligent, friendly community - a task which is made all the more difficult by the fact that I'm running a site focused around a video game that attracts a younger set. Keeping things 'clean' is my first line of social defense in preventing them from tearing down the atmosphere of civility. For more on this, read Sage's eloquent expansion of the point.

 

[McLaren]

No. But I have question Cody.


Do you really think it's over moderated, or are you simply still ticked because the mods have not been agreeing with your posts lately?

 

[nk4e]

Well, keeping a good clean site is good though it does help stop a lot of potential fights.

 

[Azuremen]

Yes.

I think overall they are doing a good job, but a lot of stuff ends up being kind of like, well, the US of A nowadays, where you can't do anything funny because someone, somewhere might be offended.

EDIT: Although I think making the poll public would have made this a little more useful.

I made the poll anonymous because I didn't want a risk of personal attacks or for a "pro" and "anti" mod sentiment to develop. I was just looking to the numbers regarding the issue.

No. But I have question Cody.


Do you really think it's over moderated, or are you simply still ticked because the mods have not been agreeing with your posts lately?

Not so much. If it was that, I would have made my post about that or PM'd Jordan if I thought the moderation was targeting me.

I generally hold the entire moderation staff in high regard, because maintaining a site of this scale requires a solid investment of time. I just feel I've being noticing more pro-active moderation in an attempt to kill weeds before they pop out of the ground. To the extent that anything that could go off-topic is killed. Even when we've been given some "off-topic" lenicy in the Premium section.

Anyone that has been around a few years can see the large slow down in posting. Whole sub sections of the board can now go a day without a single post. Before, I'd often miss quite a bit being out for only an hour or two.

I always enjoyed the fact that the board moved a nice steady pace, without spam. I could always find witty one liners, amusing rants, and so on. Now, it just seems everyone is trying too hard to maintain a "serious, on topic" attitude that people aren't as likely to post that funny one liner or amusing gif because they don't want to get yelled at by Duke or mocked heavily by Famine.

Of course, one could always argue that this is a Grand Turismo forum and the game is the primary focus, but many of the older members here don't even play anymore, having moved onto other interests. And a lot of us have stopped posting and looking around because it has become less interesting, and not because we don't play GT anymore.

I could have made it more clear in the initial post - I don't feel there is massive over moderation, just a bit of over zealous behavior with good intentions. It just makes the place less appealing to many of us though.

 

[Rykon Zero]

Over-moderated? Occasionally. I have a five point infraction that I honestly believe should have been a warning. But that is a personal point, and not something I hold against the giver of the infraction, now that I look back at my behavior. I really do believe that the moderating staff is doing it's job nicely, and considering that I have been to forums where the normal members have to keep the mods in line, I am especially proud to state this as my internet home. Though the internet home isn't to pleased with my decision.

 

[Sharky.]

Well in ye olde days of GTP there was a thread called 'Thread about Nothing (poo edition)' How long do you think a thread like that would last nowadays?

How long did our Premo chat thread last?

Do I think GTP is becoming over-moderated? No.

 

[Philly]

Anyone that has been around a few years can see the large slow down in posting. Whole sub sections of the board can now go a day without a single post. Before, I'd often miss quite a bit being out for only an hour or two.

I always enjoyed the fact that the board moved a nice steady pace, without spam. I could always find witty one liners, amusing rants, and so on. Now, it just seems everyone is trying too hard to maintain a "serious, on topic" attitude that people aren't as likely to post that funny one liner or amusing gif because they don't want to get yelled at by Duke or mocked heavily by Famine.

Of course, one could always argue that this is a Grand Turismo forum and the game is the primary focus, but many of the older members here don't even play anymore, having moved onto other interests. And a lot of us have stopped posting and looking around because it has become less interesting, and not because we don't play GT anymore.

I've been noticing too that this site isn't quite what it was even a year ago. In the auto news section, there used to be several new threads posted daily and there were always several discussions going so you could waste quite a bit of time here if you were really into them. But now there's maybe a new thread every day or more, and you don't see many more than new posts in three threads if you leave for a few hours. It just seems that the new post icon just doesn't pop us as often anymore, and the number of threads from the last two days just doesn't extend nearly as far as it used to.

Is this a result of the moderation? I don't think so. They mods are going to be more present now with the same amount of moderation going on in a less busy place for sure, but there are probably other factors that are causing a slowdown. It does seem like there are a lot fewer new faces than I remember seeing, but maybe I just know everybody more. Perhaps when GT5 comes out it'll pick up again and stay going strong. A good portion of the activity was probably due to traffic in the GT4 section which is getting a little stale I would assume.

 

[Jordan]

While I don't have specific numbers for the forums you guys are interested in, aggregate traffic and posting rates are steady. Since the beginning of 2007, the site has seen about 30,000 posts per month. With the exception of last November's 26,551 posts, all other recent months have exceeded the 30k mark, and we're on target to do it again with 16,000 posts this January. Visitor numbers are also positive. Here they are broken down per week over the last year:

No doubt, however, we should do a better job of converting all these new visitors into active, contributing members. I've got some pretty radical changes coming to the forum structure which will hopefully do just that, but only time will tell.

I always enjoyed the fact that the board moved a nice steady pace, without spam. I could always find witty one liners, amusing rants, and so on. Now, it just seems everyone is trying too hard to maintain a "serious, on topic" attitude that people aren't as likely to post that funny one liner or amusing gif because they don't want to get yelled at by Duke or mocked heavily by Famine.

Of course, one could always argue that this is a Grand Turismo forum and the game is the primary focus, but many of the older members here don't even play anymore, having moved onto other interests. And a lot of us have stopped posting and looking around because it has become less interesting, and not because we don't play GT anymore.

I've managed this community for 9 years, and have seen about 8 different 'generations' come and go. It sounds like you may be 'missing' some folks from older times. I'm not sure who you have in mind, so I can't really say why they are not an active participant any longer, but that's the way things must go in both online and offline communities.

In the very long-run, as with all social environments, there is a pendulum that swings between rule enforcement and user behavior (with the expression of lamentations at either extreme). Indeed, I'm sure that your own recent campaign will consciously or unconsciously affect decisions made by the moderation team as the pendulum begins to shift in a new direction - and that's probably a good thing. It's not so much in what direction the pendulum is going, but the degree of violence in which it changes. As long as everyone keeps things in perspective, we should continue to have the dynamic community that we have all enjoyed for so many years.

 

[Omnis]

People from Kentucky are awesome.

 

[Noah]

Nope definitely not.

 

[kikie]

To brake the poll's anonymity -no-.

 

[Moglet]

No, I don't feel that it's over moderated, but I do feel that a lot of members are taking everything too seriously lately. Not mentioning any names but it's rare you'll see a topic in the games section these days that doesn't dissolve into a frankly ridiculous argument over whether the 360 renders games in 1080p or not. It seems to be that members in that section can't voice their opinion unless it's 100% factually accurate and backed up with statistics.

Which is bloody boring for a forum, in all honesty. The rest of the sections are awesome, though.

 

[YSSMAN]

It seems to be that members in that section can't voice their opinion unless it's 100% factually accurate and backed up with statistics.

That, or we're told that our own subjective assessments are false, disingenuous, and are made with the intent to warp "the truth."

Yes. That makes those discussions a lot of fun.

 

[Keef]

People from Kentucky are awesome.

Nope definitely not.

I'm splitting the middle here. I've got my prejudices, of course, but I can't stick with a definitive "yay" or "nay".

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Do you feel GTP is becoming over moderated?

No.

Unlike some sites on the net that either have a strict adherence to the rules policy, or those allowing members to do what ever they like, I have found that GTP has found a very nice balance between the two, and really only punish those that continually go out of their way to disregard the rules, and degrade the quality of the discussions on GTP.

However, I do feel that a few members seem to not understand the difference between a subjective and an objective opinion, and worse yet post things that are exaggerated, false, misleading, or inaccurate in an attempt to make their opinion appear to be more valid... and they apparently think this is perfectly acceptable.

Furthermore, when the actual facts are brought to bare that do not support their opinion, or their comments have been shown to be false or misleading, their defense is often childish name calling and complaining that people are too serious, and downplaying the value of sharing actual facts instead of disguising a subjective opinion as a fact.

"Not mentioning any names" but it's often you'll see their posts dissolve into a frankly ridiculous argument. It seems to be that they have a hard time voicing their opinions without also exaggerating and posting false, misleading, or inaccurate information.

Worse yet, apparently some think it's boring when people do not exaggerate, or post false, misleading, or inaccurate information… and seem to take pride in it.

No. That does not make those discussions a lot of fun.... or beneficial for those trying to gain helpful and accurate information.

After all, if they want nothing but humor... there is a GTP forum just for that. 👍



Fortunately, these few are certainly not representative of the vast majority of participants on GTP. And thanks to the majority of participants, the hard working mods, DerAlta, Duke, and of course Jordan, GTP not only is a valuable resource for sharing information on a wide variety of subjects, but compared to many other sites, it’s also one of the more civil, friendly, and engaging sites on the net. 👍

 

[Flerbizky]

To brake the poll's anonymity -no-.

I'm with Kikie - Voted no as well !...

 

[Duke]

I don't feel that it's over moderated, but I do feel that a lot of members are taking everything too seriously lately. Not mentioning any names but it's rare you'll see a topic in the games section these days that doesn't dissolve into a frankly ridiculous argument over whether the 360 renders games in 1080p or not. It seems to be that members in that section can't voice their opinion unless it's 100% factually accurate and backed up with statistics.

With all due respect, a factual point such as whether or not the 360 renders in 1080p is NOT a matter of opinion that is open to interpretation. It either does or does not and there is no 'opinion' that is worth anything on the subject if it disagrees with the actual fact.

You can argue subjectively about the look of those renderings with nothing other than an opinioned disagreement, and that's fine. But making factual statements that are based on incorrect information will always be wrong.

 

[Hugo Boss]

I always enjoyed the fact that the board moved a nice steady pace, without spam. I could always find witty one liners, amusing rants, and so on. Now, it just seems everyone is trying too hard to maintain a "serious, on topic" attitude that people aren't as likely to post that funny one liner or amusing gif because they don't want to get yelled at by Duke or mocked heavily by Famine.

Of course, one could always argue that this is a Grand Turismo forum and the game is the primary focus, but many of the older members here don't even play anymore, having moved onto other interests. And a lot of us have stopped posting and looking around because it has become less interesting, and not because we don't play GT anymore.

I could have made it more clear in the initial post - I don't feel there is massive over moderation, just a bit of over zealous behavior with good intentions. It just makes the place less appealing to many of us though.

I've always been active at different GT sites and it's at GTP where I notice the highest increase of intolerancy and negativity from members over the years. This can partly be explained ofcourse by the fact that GTPlanet is by far the biggest of them all and attracts the most new members. I think it's also due to the overall mentality of people these days. It only takes a few negative members to completely overshadow all the positive members and contributions.

I only check the GT5rologue and the Cars section, so I can solely comment about what's going on over there. What I see is a lot of negativity about GT5P and the development (or lack of) of it. Most of it with an hidden intention to offend the true GT fans. Besides that people immediately start to point fingers in the threads when somebody makes a mistake in an online race, where a simple pm could have solved things immediately.

Also in the cars section there's a lot of negativity, arrogancy and ignorance. The Prius-bashing, the fuzz around the GTR with blown out of proportion critics about it's gearbox and pathetic counterattacks like 'Porsche owned by questioning GTR's performance at Nordschleife', statements like "I wouldn't buy a VW or recommend one to anyone because it's a VW' and "no other sports compact can be better than my Seat", etc., etc.

These type of 'contributions' to the forum create a negative atmosphere. Subsequently this negative atmosphere scares people away that want to contribute in a serious and positive manner, leaves little room for humour and also often results in 'debates' that need intervention from the moderators. I'd say that makes the place less appealing over here, if that's the case at all.

 

[Scaff]

You can argue subjectively about the look of those renderings with nothing other than an opinioned disagreement, and that's fine. But making factual statements that are based on incorrect information will always be wrong.

I 100% agree with Duke here, anything that can be quantified should always be able to be backed up, anything subjective is open to discusion.

Opinion posted as fact has been the ruin of many a good forum and as such doing so here can end in departure, as you can ask Poverty/Forza 2.0, oh wait no you can't ask him.



Regards

Scaff

 

[Mark T]

I don't think the forums are over moderated although I have noticed how different GTP is compared to other forums that are very lenient.

GTP has got the balance just right for the target audience. Swearing is limited, inappropriate threads are closed quickly and threads that are of a sensitive nature are kept in line.

 

[Moglet]

With all due respect, a factual point such as whether or not the 360 renders in 1080p is NOT a matter of opinion that is open to interpretation. It either does or does not and there is no 'opinion' that is worth anything on the subject if it disagrees with the actual fact.

You can argue subjectively about the look of those renderings with nothing other than an opinioned disagreement, and that's fine. But making factual statements that are based on incorrect information will always be wrong.

They were seperate points that I was trying to make, although I can see why it may have looked like I was linking them. 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

But making factual statements that are based on incorrect information will always be wrong.

Here also lies the problem. Some members on here refuse to accept the notion that there are differing opinions on certain subjects, and subsequently, they are otherwise attacked, mocked, and otherwise pushed out of the forum on account of these "discussions" in the search of "truth." At this point, its really on any subject, and it is never acceptable in my opinion.

What Digital-Nitrate is talking about is important, but at the same time completely writes off the purpose of a forum, to discuss various topics. People are going to have differing opinions, they're going to disagree on the subject matter, and consequently some may choose to talk about it in a more sarcastic, humorous, or even exaggerator way. Its up to the USER to decide what they believe or do not, and if they question it... They should use their words to question it, counter act it, or better yet, choose to seek out their own information for themselves to debate it. I understand the feeling of responsibility to discuss in favorable terms or outright defend things that you like our use or have a great level of experience with, I do it a lot with VW and GM products, but nevertheless I know that I can't convince everyone of anything via the internet no matter how much data I may have to the contrary of their points, or how many experiences I have to prove otherwise. I just have to accept it, and move on.

I have no problem if anyone wants to submit their own version of "the truth" on any point, but we all need to realize that people are often going to have different conclusions based on the same set of data, or even coming from similar experiences.

 

[Danoff]

Here also lies the problem. Some members on here refuse to accept the notion that there are differing opinions on certain subjects,...

I think another problem lies in the assumption that ALL subjects are subjective and that differing opinions must be tolerated. There are many subjects discussed on this site in which there is one right answer.

 

[Moglet]

I think another problem lies in the assumption that ALL subjects are subjective and that differing opinions must be tolerated. There are many subjects discussed on this site in which there is one right answer.

Definitely, especially when it comes to factually accurate answered being required for questions.

'Which console do you think is better?' is, however, not a question that has a single answer. I think it's unfair that a lot of members get slated in these sorts of discussions for not looking up every single last thing about the console when making their opinions heard. I've been told I've been posting '****ed up details' before just because I didn't get one point (a point which most consumers in the question at hand WOULD NOT care about) 100% factually accurate.

Next we'll be told we have to reference our source material in every post, too. I've felt driven away from this site on many occasions as the only place where I feel I can now post my opinion is in the photography forum. Yet I visit 4 other forums and have had none of these problems occur on those.

 

[Azuremen]

Oh, my. This topic all over again. I won't get into like I did last time, but you can have opinions, based on facts, that are different. The originally issue was more or less that one member felt his opinion was "better" because it was based on some numbers. Of course, the opinion was subjective, because it was "which console is better?" If someone feels the XBOX is better because they like the colors it is sold in more, than that is their opinion. No need to attempt to invalidate it with numbers on its rendering capabilities.

Some of you guys get far too concerned with "numbers" when arguing an opinion. An opinion can be based on whatever facts a person feels to consider, and whatever subjective elements they want to look at.

I could go pull my whole discussion out again on this, from back when Di-Ni and I got into it at length. But I am hoping I don't need walls of text to make the point that a persons opinion on what is better is completely subjective. So don't try to tell someone they should like a PS3 more because it has some better numbers and a free online service.

 

[Moglet]

Oh, my. This topic all over again.

Sorry, this would be my fault!

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Except a few still think the discussion in question was simply about what console is better. It was not. It was about a few people posting facts, not opinions that were absolutely untrue, and then defending that by suggesting it was just a personal opinion. Again, there clearly are some people who either do not understand the difference between expressing a subjective opinion and stating and or using a fact to support that opinion.

I posted a link, but here is an example of just that:

Thanks Pal! You have given me food for thought though. In previous discussions with yourself (and particularly in the Opinions/Current Events sub-forum), I have in the past been far too quick to assume the aggressive position, backed up with, sometimes poorly researched (or inaccurate) facts. I know I am a sod for it, and I'm starting to realise that I should not automatically assume that role. I still have much to learn when it comes to discussions in this great forum! 👍

It takes two to tango, and I can certainly be hard-nosed when it comes down to facts or the lack thereof, and I'll readily admit that I don't easily let go, so thanks goes out to you as well. 👍

As for the Opinions/Current Events sub-forum, or similar types of forums... I try and keep as far away from them as possible! Especially on the Internet, too many people simply do not understand the difference between having a subjective opinion and an objective one, and are quick to start a verbal fight because of it.

Take ice cream for instance (not sure why I like ice cream metaphors, but that's for a different conversation... ). If one person says they can't stand the taste of chocolate ice cream, and another person says they absolutely adore the taste of chocolate ice cream... guess what, they are both right. They are simply sharing their own subjective opinion about chocolate ice cream.

However, inevitably, there is always someone who feels their subjective opinion is more valid than another, and will often exaggerate or simply make something up to try and lend support to their subjective opinion.

For instance... "Chocolate ice cream states like cow manure!"

The first response ought to be, "How would you know what cow manure tastes like?"

The point though is that objectively speaking, one would not even have to ever taste cow manure to know that factually chocolate ice cream does not taste anything like cow manure. Just from a chemical stand point, if you compared the molecules that determine taste in both, they would not match.

Now let's assume someone is reading the comment about how chocolate ice cream tastes like cow manure who has never in their life tasted chocolate ice cream, but knows cow manure smells disgusting. If they were to believe what that person said, then they have been mislead to believe something that simply is not true.

Now all you have to do is substitute ice cream for any topic, and cow manure for any exaggeration so often applied in those types of discussions, and you can quickly see why those threads so often result in heated debates - especially when the person who is using objective facts that are untrue (like saying something tasting like cow manure that doesn't) then takes the defensive position by asking why they are being "attacked" for just offering their own personal opinion.

The fact is that while they are certainly entitled to voice their opinion, especially if it's just a subjective one, if they are going to use objective facts that are simply not true (and exaggerations are just one example of this), then they should be prepared to be proven wrong.

Honestly, I wish I could enjoy participating in more subjective opinion based topics, especially about films... as I am a HUGE film buff... but I rarely do as I spend so much time just trying to filter out all the BS that comes from people who have a hard time understanding the difference between subjective and objective opinions.

Now some folks may think I'm just a facts kind of guy, and while I admit, I much prefer to be reading about facts and objective opinions, than just subjective opinions, but I also enjoy from time to time reading and sharing subjective opinions.

*whew*

That felt good getting that out of my system!

This has been something that has bothered me for some time, but I guess I never really completely vocalized my feelings about this until now... go figure. Thanks again magburner for what has led to a really interesting discussion.



It is yet another reminder on why I do so much enjoy GTP and how very different it is from similar sites. It's great to find a place where so many different types of people from around the world with different opinions, can share and learn new things and ideas in a civil environment. 👍

So while it's perfectly reasonable for one person to say they hate chocolate ice cream, and one person to say they love it... where they fail is when they make a statement that isn't true to try and suggest their opinion is more valid... like saying it tastes like cow manure.

I have no issue with those that "like" one thing over another. The issue I have is when people post false information, exaggerations, and misleading info to try and bolster their opinion, or attck those that don't share their opinion. If you think anything else, you simply have not been reading the same posts.



On the bright side, at least some good can come from these disagreements, because at least there are some people, recent case in point, who were able to see how some of their previous posts were in fact quite misleading and included statements that were false, and now appear to be making a conscience effort to try their best not to do that any more. It would be nice if everyone did that, and fortunately most participants on GTP do. 👍