Do you think a locked 60 is "Chest Beating" that is preventing great experiences for Forza?

[Northstar]

No, I don't see him talking crap to the extent of denigrating other non-Forza games. By pointing out SMS's behaviour I feel he's doing the opposite.

I'm talking more about how he jumps down the throat of anyone that says anything even slightly negative about Forza, even if they don't mention any other game.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I'm talking more about how he jumps down the throat of anyone that says anything even slightly negative about Forza, even if they don't mention any other game.

Is this really about me disagreeing with you calling the Porsche unveil arrogant?

You want my laundry list of crap wrong with Forza? Here you go:

• Same livery editor with the same bugs for multiple games.
• Same upgrade system with barely much changed to it at all.
• Drivatars drive too aggressively no matter what setting and are prone to make your experience a living hell.
• The online game settings menu is a joke.
• Not having custom public lobbies without the ability to search public lobbies is a joke.
• Car sounds are good but they need way more work.
• It's absolutely insane that it's taken till Forza 7 to get a closer FoV camera angle for interior view.
• Turn 10 isn't open enough with the community and it seems like they flat out ignore the community most of the time.
• They remove too much from their games every other iteration.
• The career mode has been frankly boring for a while in the Motorsport series.
• Clutch bug still existing drives me insane.
• There are cars with visual bugs that carry over from multiple titles.
• It seems like they've gone out of their way to make tuning harder.
• We should be able to choose the cars Drivatars drive individually.
• I'm tired of having to put a V12 in cars to make the kind of power they should be able to make with the stock engine.
• We should have the option of use any of the engines available on a car model on each car in the game by now.(2.3l Ecoboost in Mustang.).
• It's a joke that we haven't been able to choose pit options since Forza 1.
• Why is it so hard to implement proper Autocross like in the first Forza?(it's a parking lot with cones.)
• Soundtrack has always been an afterthought or joke in Forza Motorsport.

Oh god look, I'm capable of saying negative things about Forza.

 

[Northstar]

Is this really about me disagreeing with you calling the Porsche unveil arrogant.

Nope it's based on what I've seen over the last month, including you jumping down my throat when I said T10 doesn't push consoles.

Anyways, I think it's best to call this over before one of us gets in trouble.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Nope it's based on what I've seen over the last month, including you jumping down my throat when I said T10 doesn't push consoles.

Turn 10 does push consoles, it's an absurd thing to say; I don't mind fair criticism but if I see a comment like the one you cite then I'm going to reply to it.

Forza 6 will actually drop frames rarely on certain tracks because it's pushing the hardware as hard as it can. Turn 10 targets 60 and native resolution, hits 60 and then adds as many graphical effects as they can during development.

Yes, Turn 10 has said that one of the first things they do in development is make sure the game runs at a locked 60 and then they maintain that through development; no that isn't normal in gaming development.

 

[VXR]

Honestly, I don't think Turn 10 get anywhere near enough credit for their abilities, making their own game and overseeing Playground too. This is gaming's most consistent studio, easily.

 

[Northstar]

This is gaming's most consistent studio, easily.

They certainly are, but at the same time it would be nice to see them get really adventurous at some point instead of just perfecting what other developers have attempted.

For instance we've been stuck with pretty much the same paint, tuning, photomode and community features for some time with only a few small advances being made in those areas with the generation leap.

They have come a long way in physics and online play though.

 

[FoRiZon]

FM7 isnt out yet so still not seeing compromises. But can say that 4K resolution is more "Chest Bursting" than 60 FPS.

60 FPS can make your gameplay/driving inch consistent. 4K just makes jagged edges smoother at greater cost of performance. Hell, competitive players very often reduces resolution just to achieve greater FPS.

 

[UKMikey]

FM7 isnt out yet so still not seeing compromises. But can say that 4K resolution is more "Chest Bursting" than 60 FPS.

60 FPS can make your gameplay/driving inch consistent. 4K just makes jagged edges smoother at greater cost of performance. Hell, competitive players very often reduces resolution just to achieve greater FPS.

If you owned a 4k TV hungry for content I feel your opinion would be slightly different, ditto HDR.

It's not chest beating, they're just trying to catch up with the current state of the art in display technology.

 

[TG Wormburner]

They certainly are, but at the same time it would be nice to see them get really adventurous at some point instead of just perfecting what other developers have attempted.

For instance we've been stuck with pretty much the same paint, tuning, photomode and community features for some time with only a few small advances being made in those areas with the generation leap.

They have come a long way in physics and online play though.

Because most of the people responsible for creating the painting and tuning aspects of the game don't work there any more

Their entire E3 conference this year was rather arrogant.

Both T10 and PD are arrogant, they've just been dealing with major gaming media longer so they are better at dealing with them and make fewer controversial comments.

LMAO, Ian started with GTR and GT Legends 13 years ago. They've had plenty of media experience developing titles that long and major titles for EA. He has plenty of experience, he's just an ass and always has been. He's full of himself and can accept no criticism to his game. Go to their forums and start going back, do a Google search of his name, go look at him editing users posts after fighting with them or outright banning them for asking for game improvements during the Kickstarter.

The below is his way of doing things as mentioned earlier and they did it with the EA games as well.

-Promote your game by hammering hard ALL established franchises because you got dynamics, and they'slackin'.
-Deliver game, the second said dynamics think to appear, framerate drops so much game becomes unplayable.
-Put blame on console manufacturers and move to next project.
-Goto step 1

There is a line between prideful and arrogance. They all might cross it from time to time but there is absolutely no tact in Bell's responses and jabs at other studios who have done nothing but trounce his products. I've come to dislike Forza a bit and how stale it's gotten with everything they've removed or ruined but SMS is a complete joke that promises and under delivers time after time.

 

[Northstar]

Because most of the people responsible for creating the painting and tuning aspects of the game don't work there any more

So they can't hire new people?

LMAO, Ian started with GTR and GT Legends 13 years ago. They've had plenty of media experience developing titles that long and major titles for EA. He has plenty of experience, he's just an ass and always has been. He's full of himself and can accept no criticism to his game. Go to their forums and start going back, do a Google search of his name, go look at him editing users posts after fighting with them or outright banning them for asking for game improvements during the Kickstarter.

GTR and GTL aren't exactly mainstream titles and I'm guessing EA had a leash on him during their relationship..

I'm not denying he's an ass, I'm just saying don't go around thinking PD and T10 are saints when it comes to media relations because they are not.

 

[PJTierney]

@TG Wormburner; now there's a name from Forza's past that I remember. Fancy seeing you here

 

[TG Wormburner]

So they can't hire new people?



GTR and GTL aren't exactly mainstream titles and I'm guessing EA had a leash on him during their relationship..

I'm not denying he's an ass, I'm just saying don't go around thinking PD and T10 are saints when it comes to media relations because they are not.

Sure they can hire new people but you're talking about completely rebuilding something that isn't complained about so is out of sight, out of mind. The amount of people that actually tune and paint on a level that is understood or of any quality is minuscule. You're talking in the hundreds of users combined out of millions of players.

EA didn't have a leash. They sat there and made the same statements during Shift's development and claimed there was no interference. When the game fell flat on it's face because it was outright pitiful on release (and they were let go) they vanished until PCARS kickstarter came about.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-30-nfs-shift-2-we-wont-add-1000-irrelevant-cars-interview

I'm not trying to fight with you here, this stuff is easy to forget about but this is the status quo for SMS. The little jabs on Twitter and in interviews were there as well.

 

[TG Wormburner]

@TG Wormburner; now there's a name from Forza's past that I remember. Fancy seeing you here

Hoping to get back into things for FM7 if it looks okay. Nice to see you PJ.

 

[-Fred-]

SMS and most notably Ian Bell's "holier than thou" pompous elitist attitude is starting to trickle down into the fanbase but no one has anything to really show for... I've said it before and I'll say it again, when they are able to release a game that works on day one, I'll take them seriously.

 

[IceMan PJN]

http://wccftech.com/project-cars-2-isnt-4k-60fps-consoles/

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ember-22nd-2017.342814/page-155#post-11859906

What do you guys think? Is Forza constantly being focused on a locked 60 hurting their ability to make the game a better experience?

When you're the industry gold standard, there's always someone looking to make a name for themselves by taking a swing at you. The fact that SMS is insecure and feel the need to take a swing at the big boy is a compliment to Turn 10 and to Forza Motorsport.

Twisting things around to sound better for you doesn't mean the words ring true or hold water. They're basically proposing shame on Turn 10 for not sacrificing quality for quantity. They're basically saying "if we're comfortable sacrificing quality performance, we can piddle around and do some other stuff".

One of the many problems with Gran Turismo in more recent history is PD's willingness to sacrifice consistent quality in favor of quantity. The parts of GT5 and GT6 that were built brand new for PS3 looked really pretty for a PS3 game. Unfortunately that was accompanied by four times as much content that was outdated garbage. It really dragged down what would otherwise have been a very pretty game. They didn't mind most of the game looking like crap as long as it meant there was more crap in there.

Personally, I'm glad Turn 10 drew this line in the sand and refuses to compromise on it. I played CARS and it had things that I liked, but there were some glaring problems with it that detracted from the experience. One big one is woefully inconsistent performance. I played it on Xbox One, and the stuttering frame rates were a problem for me. It seemed worst while doing major turning, which is when I really need it to be smooth rather than struggling. There were times my frame rates looked like a flip book slow enough to count frames to yourself, although that seemed to happen if I resumed playing without having previously closed the game out completely. I started closing it completely out and that helped, though that shouldn't be necessary. Other games don't have that problem.

SMS are just talking out their butt. I wasn't impressed with their lack of professionalism back when Project SHART first came out and people came to them with major issues and they responded like high school douchebags. I'd like to see them grow up a bit.

 

[UKMikey]

I played it on Xbox One

My commisserations. From my experience that was the worst version. I can't help thinking that those Wii U guys dodged a bullet if OG Xbox 1 wasn't hardware enough for the game.

 

[-Fred-]

If anyone still has doubt why a locked FPS setting is so important, go do a few Landrush events (or anything else really, but it's way more obvious there) in Dirt4, then go back to FM6 and you'll understand why it's not "chest beating that prevents a great experience".

 

[PJTierney]

If anyone still has doubt why a locked FPS setting is so important, go do a few Landrush events (or anything else really, but it's way more obvious there) in Dirt4, then go back to FM6 and you'll understand why it's not "chest beating that prevents a great experience".

Those events were a pain to navigate because of the dodgy framerate, along with the excessive screen tearing.

 

[-Fred-]

Those events were a pain to navigate because of the dodgy framerate, along with the excessive screen tearing.

I'm still in the middle of them and honestly had to take a break because of how frustrating it is.

 

[PJTierney]

I'm still in the middle of them and honestly had to take a break because of how frustrating it is.

• Gamer Handling
• AI: Easy

Blew through them in a single evening and never looked back. Landrush wasn't fun for me in DiRT 4 anyway, as Rallycross did the same but exponentially better due to the varying circuits, cars and the tactics of the Joker Lap system.

 

[UKMikey]

I know we're way off-topic (locked frame rates for the win) but I wish D4 had a My Stage rallycross generator. It's my favourite part of the game but seems to be over in a heartbeat. I hope PCars 2 has a more substantial rallycross campaign.

 

[Dopplegagger]

60FPS... chest beating? Naugh! I think it's time for games to double the gold standard for frame rates. 120FPS would be cheat beating. Or milk shaking... My preferred form of showing off.

Ooo!

 

[Pillo-san]

60FPS... chest beating? Naugh! I think it's time for games to double the gold standard for frame rates. 120FPS would be cheat beating. Or milk shaking... My preferred form of showing off.

Ooo!

Yupp I agree, I dont think that 60fps is that smooth, time to target at elast 120 fps. I mean a gtx 470 can hit 100+ fps with a skylake if the settings are not to taxing, like reflections, AA and shadows/dirt/smoke @1920x1200

 

[deththrasher]

Yupp I agree, I dont think that 60fps is that smooth, time to target at elast 120 fps. I mean a gtx 470 can hit 100+ fps with a skylake if the settings are not to taxing, like reflections, AA and shadows/dirt/smoke @1920x1200

i think you mean RX 470? GTX 470 might be able to run it at 640x480

 

[Pillo-san]

i think you mean RX 470? GTX 470 might be able to run it at 640x480

Nope. a gtx 470.
I had a mini-itx sys i7 3770k with a gtx 670(quite old sys) that I gave away to my younger brother, for me with a monitor from 2007 the sys was good enough as I only play bf and race sims. I took my old pc back from him that I gave him a couple of years ago( q6600 with a gtx 470), so it was a system swap, but it was an awful gaming experience, I could not take it. So I bought a new mini itx sys with an i7 6700 and gtx 1070. But after a while I found out that the old gtx 470 worked great with the skylake system. So after a while I got rid of the 1070 and got a free gtx 970 to boot. Then this year I got rid of the Skylake sys because of the summer so every game is a struggle for the q6600 with either gtx 470 and 970. I get like 45-60fps at best with either card in my race games, although the settings are naturally higher on the gtx 970. But paired with a fast cpu the gtx 470 is great. About as fast as the xbox/ps4 gpu so no 640x480 here, but forget about reflections ans such dynamic effects. But if you mean Forza with "it", then the gtx470 cant run it at all. You cant start the game as the card does not have 2GB or vram.

 

[ShawnPhillips]

Yupp I agree, I dont think that 60fps is that smooth, time to target at elast 120 fps.

The problem with that is that 99% of Television sets don't support anything higher then 60Hz signal. Even the TV's that advertise 120 or 240Hz still only accept a 60Hz signal and use interpolation post processing to artificially enhance the framerate to 120-240Hz. Console games wont target 120FPS until there are enough TV's that support native 120Hz, and TV manufactures are unlikely to make native 120Hz TV's until there is enough high framerate content and HDMI specs have improved to better support 120Hz signals.

 

[GTsimms]

Because most of the people responsible for creating the painting and tuning aspects of the game don't work there any more.

LMAO, Ian started with GTR and GT Legends 13 years ago. They've had plenty of media experience developing titles that long and major titles for EA. He has plenty of experience, he's just an ass and always has been. He's full of himself and can accept no criticism to his game. Go to their forums and start going back, do a Google search of his name, go look at him editing users posts after fighting with them or outright banning them for asking for game improvements during the Kickstarter.

The below is his way of doing things as mentioned earlier and they did it with the EA games as well.




There is a line between prideful and arrogance. They all might cross it from time to time but there is absolutely no tact in Bell's responses and jabs at other studios who have done nothing but trounce his products. I've come to dislike Forza a bit and how stale it's gotten with everything they've removed or ruined but SMS is a complete joke that promises and under delivers time after time.

Dude only one title has been released and previously he was a co-founder

 

[GTsimms]

SMS and most notably Ian Bell's "holier than thou" pompous elitist attitude is starting to trickle down into the fanbase but no one has anything to really show for... I've said it before and I'll say it again, when they are able to release a game that works on day one, I'll take them seriously.

You might want to look at this link next to last Post.
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/project-cars-2.42706/page-117#post-904855

Dan Greenawalt: Forza Motorsport Is "The Master of Everything", Gran Turismo 5 Is a "Very Good Game"
http://www.dualshockers.com/dan-gre...verything-gran-turismo-5-is-a-very-good-game/

 

[ImaRobot]

You might want to look at this link next to last Post.
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/project-cars-2.42706/page-117#post-904855

Dan Greenawalt: Forza Motorsport Is "The Master of Everything", Gran Turismo 5 Is a "Very Good Game"
http://www.dualshockers.com/dan-gre...verything-gran-turismo-5-is-a-very-good-game/

Mind quoting it? I don't feel like signing up on a forum just to read a post. Still, regardless, I wouldn't put them in the same shoes even with that in consideration. I've seen people get banned by Ian Bell for so much as liking a post that was negative about his game, on his forum. This only adds to the perception people have of him.

 

[UKMikey]

SMS and most notably Ian Bell's "holier than thou" pompous elitist attitude is starting to trickle down into the fanbase but no one has anything to really show for... I've said it before and I'll say it again, when they are able to release a game that works on day one, I'll take them seriously.

You might want to look at this link next to last Post.
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/project-cars-2.42706/page-117#post-904855

Dan Greenawalt: Forza Motorsport Is "The Master of Everything", Gran Turismo 5 Is a "Very Good Game"
http://www.dualshockers.com/dan-gre...verything-gran-turismo-5-is-a-very-good-game/

When asked if the Forza franchise risked to be the jack of all trades, and the master of none in the car simulation genre, his response was, as usual, very confident and assertive:

"(laughing) Not at all. We see Forza as being the master of everything offered by any simulation car game available anywhere, whether on a console or PC. Forza stands alone in our opinion because it offers so much more at such a higher level than anything else out there."

Pressed on why the game didn’t follow the example of Gran Turismo 5 and iRacing with their heavy emphasis on racing simulation, he explained that the Forza franchise isn’t just about that:

"That’s a rather odd question from my point of view, and here’s why. We really do feel that we’ve covered the bases not just with racing but all aspects of car culture. So, it’s very hard to compare our product to any of the others when they don’t rise to our same level of options and playability. It’s sort of like trying to compare apples to oranges I guess."

The interviewer didn’t give up, and listed many sim racing features missing from Forza games or only partially simulated (repairs on the aerodynamics, full pit stops, realistic tire wear and fuel consumption, functioning drag tree), but Greenawalt minimized their importance, taking the chance to mention the upcoming cloud-based features.

"Fair points, but, but again, Forza (and Forza 5 in particular) offers so much more than these rather minor details and concerns from our niche brothers and sisters on the racing side of Forza life. We feel that the true source of Forza entertainment comes from its overall execution and the emotional connection derived from its unparalleled immersive content. I feel that any details that are allegedly missing are far outweighed by our cutting edge graphics and physics. But it’s not just these critical aspects; it’s also (in the case of FM5) the new power of the Cloud that places us on an entirely new plateau beyond anything anyone has out there. So, I think we can be forgiven if we don’t have every feature under the sun."

He also had something (surprisingly) positive to say about Gran Turismo 5, revealing that being a fan of the Gran Turismo franchise prompted him to enter the business.

"Oh, I think it is a very good game. I’m a fan of the series. It is why I got into this business."

Personally, I’d like to give a serious pat on the back to AAR GTDon for having the guts to ask some really though questions. I have to honestly admit that it’s hard to see this kind of candid criticism during an interview by the actual press. That said, Greenawalt stood his ground and responded in kind.

I’m sure some will have a few issues with the “master of everything” concept (I know I do, and I’m a fan of the Forza franchise myself), especially when we draw a comparison with extremely solid simulations like iRacing, but to each their own. All in all, i’d say the definition “fighting words” applies perfectly here, to both sides of the discussion. Which side are you on?

This is certainly a bunch of embarrassingly bullish self serving crap but I don't see him calling out the competition and putting them down Ian-style.

Also, he's actually able to release a game which works on day one.