Do you think PD is biased towards Japanese cars?

[freedomweasel]

Japanese proverb:
The bird near the school sings the primer.
They're going to do what they know. It's natural. If you want american cars play FM3.

I saw more complaints about the lack of American cars on Forza 3 forums than on this forum. I'd guess (without looking at the car lists) there are about as many American cars in Forza as there are in GT5. Sounds great until you look at the total number of cars and the percentage plummets.
The fact is, when you sell on a global scale, and your main markets are not where your office is located, you shouldn't prioritize local cars because they're "easy". Most of the cars that people are asking for are globally distributed, and not hard to find.
It's not like people are screaming out for little kit cars build in the backwoods of Kentucky or something. They want something as "esoteric" as a current model mustang, which by most accounts is an insane performance bargain and can rival, or beat, some of the best cars in the segment.

Either bias or lazy.

 

[ScariestGariest]

Umm, they are based in Japan. I bet if they were based here we would have 200 variations of the cobalt. It's better this way.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Unless Japan and the Far East is the dominant buyers of the game, it is pretty much a "🤬 you" to the rest of us.

No, but the way they handled (and are still handling) Stealth and Chromeline cars certainly is.

 

[Goshin2568]

In real life a GT-R is an incredible car, much like the ZR-1 Corvette.

In the game, i found faster times from the ZR-1 at the top gear test track, in the region of 0.5 seconds. I don't think Japanese cars are overly biased.

You are comparing a 605 hp car against a 475 hp car. Of course it's faster.

What nationality is Turn 10? The guys who made Forza? Aren't they American?

I don't own the game but I've never heard of any major bias toward any particular country in terms of vehicles.

I'm not starting (yet another) GT5 Forza argument. I'm just saying that other companies have operated without an obvious bias like that... There are plenty of American cars and tons of European cars that GT5 would be much better off for having.

I know the reason is that it's probably tons easier for them to get their hands on Japanese cars. But come on, Sony and PD ain't broke, if they want their game too be the best, they need to hook us up with some more rides.

Ya.... And Forza is biased towards american cars, so your whole point is null.

Extremely bias.

Japanese Cars drive like formula 1
American Cars drive like goKarts

Haha ya, but American cars do drive like go-karts. And I'm american.

if anything the bias shows up in the Enzo and 599 alot more than the American cars... those two have the understeer plow of a large U-haul moving van in the game.. when the Enzo in particular is supposed to be very sharp and fast.. the Viper is a little more sluggish and alot more civil than it should be but thats the only area i notice it with the American cars.. the massive amount of japanese cars is to be expected because of course the japanese makers are going to kiss PDs ass to get them in there..

What?? The Enzo is alot of things, but understeery is not one of them. It jumps around like the chipmunk from hoodwinked after they gave him coffee. (Obscure reference anyone?)




Anyway, in response to the OP, I think they are biased in numbers, which is totally acceptable, but not really in performance. I would be pissed if they made japanese cars drive better.

 

[Eldagore]

Yes it is bias. It is obvious in many cases.

 

[Destinkeys]

All we can do is vote with our wallets...

I'm pretty confident this is my last PD game. Unless the stars all align, Kaz wakes from hibernation and sees what a 🤬 up he has made, and turns it around 180º, I'm outta here soon.

Truth in advertising laws ought to at least make him change the name to Nissan Tourismo, or Gran Nipponismo, rather than something that sounds Italian, but has fewer Italian cars than Miata's.

I just want a game that thinks, until it has racing down COLD, collecting museum cards, taking photos, hunting for used cars, trading paint chips, washing your car and putting in an oil change are complete wastes of time.

I just wanted to race, not play Pokemon...

 

[Bigbazz]

You are comparing a 605 hp car against a 475 hp car. Of course it's faster.




Ya.... And Forza is biased towards american cars, so your whole point is null.



Haha ya, but American cars do drive like go-karts. And I'm american.





What?? The Enzo is alot of things, but understeery is not one of them. It jumps around like the chipmunk from hoodwinked after they gave him coffee. (Obscure reference anyone?)




Anyway, in response to the OP, I think they are biased in numbers, which is totally acceptable, but not really in performance. I would be pissed if they made japanese cars drive better.

No i'm comparing a 519bhp car vs a 600bhp car that other people had assumed the GTR was faster than. The GT-R Vspec that is. Also driving like a Go-Kart is kinda a good thing, they are extremely responsive. So in that respect, American cars are definitely not known to drive like Go-Karts.

A car that drives like a Go-Kart is something like... Ariel Atom.

Old American cars drive more like.. busses, but lets be honest if its in the game or real life that is true, they are well known to be quite hopeless in the corners.

 

[Airrider]

If by "bias" you mean they tend to catalogue what they know best, which is Japanese cars and Japanese tuning houses, you'd be right. However, every car, performance-wise, is fairly represented as far as I know. Would the ZR-1 RM be half the amazing monster it is if a performance bias were present?

By contrast, I suppose Japanese knowledge of good representations of, say, American cars, is a bit limited. Yeah, we have Challengers old and new in there, we have Camaros, we have older 'Vettes, pickup trucks (?!) and one custom job, that being the '62 Special, but we really don't have that many other representatives. I suppose it's because a lot of American and some European cars tend to run together and all start looking the same to a Japanese development team the same way a lot of Japanese and some European cars, like the many keicars we run into or all the Skyline variants, tend to run together and all start looking the same to an American audience.

Then there are cars in the rarified supercar area which might seem to also run together to the uninitiated, Japanese or otherwise, like, say, the reason the Maserati GranTurismo appears in GT5 and not the MC12. The GranTurismo is unique enough to merit its own appearance in GT5 and to play with a sports car crowd where layout and attributes are still kind of diverse. The MC12, on the other hand, is basically a slightly-faster Enzo, which is great, but it didn't appear. That, perhaps, would be down to negligence on PD's part and the fact that the GT5 top end is already swimming with mid-engined, rear-wheel-drive, high-horsepower titans.

Of course, one WOULD wonder why cars like the FXX and the MC12 Corsa weren't invited to the party to shake up the race car classes since they're properly race car fast, but those are personal gripes of mine.

 

[Goshin2568]

I just want a game that thinks, until it has racing down COLD, collecting museum cards, taking photos, hunting for used cars, trading paint chips, washing your car and putting in an oil change are complete wastes of time.

I just wanted to race, not play Pokemon...

Awesome. Using that in my sig.

 

[Antonisbob]

Well Japanese cars suck so I don't drive them in the first place.

 

[ScariestGariest]

Well Japanese cars suck so I don't drive them in the first place.

World economy doesn't leave you with any real choices then.

 

[vakazruk]

PD doesnt know anything about trucks

 

[EAGLE 5]

You know my real problem with the Japanese cars in the game is that half of them could have easily been taken away why? Name/Badge engineering.

I don't mind having different variations of a car when the difference is something along the lines of Regular R32 GT-R vs V-Spec II which had better brakes and differentials in other words a tangible difference be it through suspension tuning, diffs, engine whatever.

However when you have a 3000GT Twin-Turbo (J) and a Mitsubishi GTO where the only difference is the name that's retarded. That's just a very poor attempt on PD's part to inflate the numbers with cars that quite frankly are just rebadged duplicates.

They could at the very least swapped the steering wheel location to make it legit but nope both models feature the driver in RHD position.

 

[Negrumir]

Ya.... And Forza is biased towards american cars, so your whole point is null.

As I said, I don't own the game. It was a question, I've heard a lot of things about Forza, none of them being anything about bias toward American cars. Whereas I've heard about GT's bias toward Japanese cars since GT2.

And while you and one other guy said Forza is biased toward American cars, a couple other guys said it wasn't and that the car list was quite well rounded. I guess I'll find out whenever I get the game. Should probably let this drop now.

 

[madwi]

I'm not going to read 6+ pages here...but who really cares if they are biased or not? do we really not have a lot of other cars to choose from? really people, think about it.

 

[Machate-man]

If you were to sum up the car industry in reference to the human body, Toyota would be the Brains, Cadillac as the stomach, Aston Martin as the face, and Alfa as THE HEART. - Jeremy Clarkson

 

[PAWEL17]

Cadillac is the most uncreative car manufacturer in style behind Porsche. Atleast the Porsche is bearable to look at.

Im talking about the cadillac cien concept specifically! Have you seen that thing!? Its so wonderful

 

[Dragunov]

Grab a Dodge Viper ACR (or ZR1 or gallardo,etc..) and a Nissan GTR bone stock, go in a track and compare real world times of the two cars and in-game times. Like in all previous GTs skyline is a bit too good.

Not sure about the rest of Japanese cars because i have not tested it yet but in some cases (Evo, Sti, NSX, RX7 comes to mind) i´m sure the game will show the same bias

 

[strngz0731]

If you were to sum up the car industry in reference to the human body, Toyota would be the Brains, Cadillac as the stomach, Aston Martin as the face, and Alfa as THE HEART. - Jeremy Clarkson

👍 +1

(Clarkson is DA MAN!)
Although, if you have a Toyota with a sticky gas pedal, does mean we're now referring to a human body with ADHD?



Peace...

 

[freedomweasel]

Grab a Dodge Viper ACR (or ZR1 or gallardo,etc..) and a Nissan GTR bone stock, go in a track and compare real world times of the two cars and in-game times. Like in all previous GTs skyline is a bit too good.

I think the problem is more likely that the ZR-1 and ACR are simply harder to drive than the GT-R, just as they are in real life.

Monster power sent to the rear wheels is going to be tricky to handle in real life, and it should be hard to handle in a game. The GT-R should be much easier to control based on what I know about the GT-R. Some cars are simply easier to drive fast, that doesn't make the game biased.

Several people have replicated the record Laguna Seca lap with the Viper, as an example.

 

[Dragunov]

I can go with the ACR or ZR1 faster than with the GT-R in most tracks, the Viper is very easy to handle even with TCS off and i have 1.32 at laguna seca with it stock. Still the GT-R times are waaay faster than it should, like 1 or 2 sec. slower

 

[freedomweasel]

I can go with the ACR or ZR1 faster than with the GT-R in most tracks, the Viper is very easy to handle even with TCS off and i have 1.32 at laguna seca with it stock. Still the GT-R times are waaay faster than it should, like 1 or 2 sec. slower

According to what times?
You can't just say the car is 2 seconds faster than it should it be. If the real life lap time of a regular old GT-R on a track is 1 minute, yet you can get 55 seconds in the GT-R while getting "correct" lap times for most other cars, then you can say it might be faster than it should be.

 

[Shant J.]

Forza games seem very US biased, the S7 is always stupidly quick in Forza, even though its actually made in Britain! haha.

Umm... no? The S7 was built in the U.S.

What are you on about?

 

[axletramp]

The problem I have is that I'm a big fan of Japanese cars, both old and new, so I love the GT series. I do have to agree that there are far too many similar models and they do tend to be Japanese. I only have five GT-Rs in my garage one of which is a completely stock R34 V-Spec I use for fun and the rest are JGT's and rarities. I'm not planning on buying any others (GT-Rs) as I don't feel I need to, so it would be nice to find less of one model and more of a variety from around the world.

I only own one Miata (MX5) which I've tuned and don't plan on getting another - I don't see they point. In fact, whenever I have won another one I tend to sell it as I won't use it.

PD biased? Possibly, but without a bit of obsession and passion from Kazu the GT series might never have existed, so I forgive him/them purely for that.

 

[Ecchi-BANZAII!!]

Your effing kidding me right?? That cadillac concept is absolutely wonderful, its a great modernist design by Cadillac, which should have been made into a real supercar.

Fugly car.
Just like the Alfa Crapero 8C and all Crapero's other cars.

 

[freedomweasel]

Fugly car.
Just like the Alfa Crapero 8C and all Crapero's other cars.

And all credibility drops like a rock.

 

[Ecchi-BANZAII!!]

And all credibility at Alfa Crapero drops like a rock.

Fix'd.

 

[freedomweasel]

Fix'd.

I'm not even sure if that was supposed to be funny, or insulting or what, but... carry on I guess.

 

[Dragunov]

According to what times?
You can't just say the car is 2 seconds faster than it should it be. If the real life lap time of a regular old GT-R on a track is 1 minute, yet you can get 55 seconds in the GT-R while getting "correct" lap times for most other cars, then you can say it might be faster than it should be.

There you go:

Laguna seca ACR 7.33 GT-R 7.40
Nordschleife ACR 7.22 GT-R 7.24(!)

From fastestlaps.com

 

[freedomweasel]

There you go:

Laguna seca ACR 7.33 GT-R 7.40
Nordschleife ACR 7.22 GT-R 7.24(!)

From fastestlaps.com

Maybe you misunderstood. First off, I think you meant a "1", not a "7" for the laguna seca times.

I'm asking how GT5 times compare to the real times. If the ring times for the two cars are 7.22 and 7.24, great. Are the ring times for the cars in GT5 similar? Or similar relative to each other?

If you took a few dozen cars, ran the ring a few times in each of them and found that you could be within a second or so of the ring time in each car, you could assume the game is modeled well. If you then took the GT-R out on the ring and destroyed the ring time for it by several seconds then you could assume something is wrong.
Understand?