To Wolfe: you're changing what I said, which is about usual with you.
Everything I quoted was word-for-word from your own post. I honestly don't see where the problem is.
It's not like I have a grudge against you, either (though sometimes it seems like you enjoy testing one's patience
). Other than perhaps not going through the trouble to make a video for someone new to GTP with only 3 posts to their name, all of this would be exactly the same with anyone else.
First, the Miata "demo" video is decidedly not in-game. I decided to fire up Enthusia last night to see if I was misremembering. The Miata demo backgrounds look better than GT4. The in-game graphics looks a little worse - Tsukuba and Nord - than Toca 3, which is rather bland in backgrounds.
Listen, I'm going to cut the sarcasm and jokes for a minute here. If you wish to hang on to any shred of credibility I highly suggest that you concede and admit that the Miata demo does indeed show in-game video, or
at the very least, a Miata rendered with the game's graphics engine yet manipulated and moved artificially (ie. following a preset track instead of using the game's own physics).
Believe us, it's in-game video. And if you don't want to trust that, then go with option B above. I don't care if you think the demo is misleading, but claiming that it's low-resolution real-world video is just embarrassing.
So here I am approaching the first turn. I'm booking pretty good, and...So I try braking. Hrm... no sounds from the tires (unless I'm slamming on them). Still no sound as I'm coming up to the turn, so I must be okay, right? I mean, in real life, tires let you know WAY ahead of time when they're starting to get unhappy grip, so I'm slowing down to take the turn, and... I keep going straight.
Okay. I'm not trying to be cute or funny here, so please bear with me, because these are facts:
First of all,
no, when you're braking, real life tires
don't let you know "WAY ahead of time" when they're "starting to get unhappy grip." Maybe some, but as I said, certainly not the average slightly-performance-oriented tire. Trust me, the "high-performance" all-seasons on my BMW are far from Formula 1 slicks, yet they won't emit a single peep under braking until I lock it up. It's the same with my bike and all of my friends' cars, even the winter tires on one friend's E28, which he has yet neglected to remove.
Even my parents' Oldsmobile will brake heavily yet silently, and its tires are the noisiest I've ever known!
As for the "going straight" part, I really don't know what to tell you. Turn the steering wheel? Don't enter the corner so fast? I know of very, very few people who complain about excessive understeer problems in Enthusia (many claim that the game is far too oversteery), so I'm as clueless as you are here. It's not like the game remains perfectly silent while you're getting true understeer -- in my video I was getting noise before anything was even slipping, especially on the final corner of Tsukuba!
And... I start to hear this sound like someone vocally imitating crowd roar. Not the tire squeal in the... cough, "demo."
Would this be the "driving on dirt" noise that you saw in the video? Honest question.
Also, we've gone over the reason why the tire squeal is different in the demo -- they used the audio from the real-world video and applied it to the in-game video. There are any number of reasons why they might do this, but I really doubt they had "Trick Tenacious D into thinking our game is realistic and then disappoint him" on their whiteboard at the time. Maybe they made the demo before the sounds were recorded, or before the sound engine was complete. Maybe they just wanted the videos to match up better so that you concentrated on what you see, and not what you hear. I don't know. It really shouldn't matter.
So, let's compare notes with, oh... real life. I'm taking my car to the first turn, and I'm booking pretty fast, but I know I have to brake. Trying to go from say 75 to 30, the tires will complain with something between a squeal and a roar depending on how hard/late I'm braking. They will try and grip until grip is lost. Now, between these points, this squeal will become a really LOUD roar, not some hissing crowd noise, especially if my car has resisted to the point that it's completely refusing to turn and headed for a wall.
Again, not trying to be mean, these are just the facts:
If your tires are squealing or roaring loudly under braking, you might want to let up on the pedal a bit and let your wheels start spinning again. Braking doesn't apply the same kind of force to a tire as cornering does, so the progression of noise is going to be different. If what you're saying was true, and ordinary braking produced loud, shrieking tire noises, then you'd get the same noise from ordinary acceleration, without any wheelspin involved. Obviously, this is not the case.
Furthermore, could you please be more specific than "especially if my car has resisted to the point that it's completely refusing to turn?" Resisting how? Not turning in what way? What exactly are you asking of it that it's not doing?
Tire noise is the single most important feedback element in any driving/racing game in letting you know the grip envelope of your tires.
I can agree with that, but in terms of complete feedback it's a secondary element, one that complements visual feedback. This is my opinion, anyway.
Your video was cute, and of course nosecam only,
Problem?
but considering you play with a hand controller and not a wheel, the dynamics are completely different. Or do you understand that? Probly not.
I'm not aware of any game that has two physics engines -- one for a controller, one for a wheel.
Aside from a lack of force feedback (and I admit from experience that Enthusia's force feedback is lacking anyway), and the inability to go "LOL UNDERSTEER" while cranking the wheel too far going into a corner (because the game compensates and does not allow me to do so), I'm playing the exact same game as everyone else.
However the chuffing sound is very soft, even with the tire volume cranked and your engine sound turned down! This is where you're going to be spending much of your time in a turn, or should, so this is a big gripe of mine.
Seriously. Tires aren't
that loud until you get close to the limit. Unless I'm mistaking your idea of when this "chuffing sound" is supposed to happen.
The physics themselves are a mixed bag. While GT4 has a lot of understeer, Forza 2 has all kinds of oversteer, especially in rear drive cars, and watch out for mid- and rear-engined cars, it gets hairy.
Forza 2's inaccuracies aside, your sentence would remain valid if you changed "Forza 2" to "real life." Even my BMW with its lowly 101hp could powerslide if you know what you're doing.
Forgive me if that was your point.
...there does seem to be some random physics from time to time. But it has a decent semblance to reality, so it's a matter of practice to get a grip on it. There are marked differences between the different types of cars, so you'll want to grab as many different kinds as you can.
For once, I agree completely with everything here.
One thing though is you'll have to deal with Turn 10's odd camera placement scheme, with a hoodcam which is practically a bumpercam 2, or behind the car. You cockpitcam guys will have to adjust.
I actually like the hoodcam. It's a good-enough substitute for an in-car cam (of course not a complete replacement), and I wish more cockpit-less games would include something like it.
You forget all the warnings people told me about "You won't like it, tires like marshmallows" "Floatiest car game I ever saw" yadda yadda.
