Do you think the "competition" ever crosses PD's mind?

[Metfanant]

Polyphony Digital SHOULD pay attention to the competition...because if they don't start they are going to be left behind...

Forza 3 was a BRILLIANT game on just about all levels...and Forza 4 will surely improve on it...

I can GUARANTEE that Turn 10 is going to MUCH better use the Top Gear license...that is as good as fact...

Anyone knocking the physics or graphics from off screen videos is just a plain hater...

the customization and online features alone in FM make it a worthy competitor to GT...plus all the cars will be of equal quality, and all will have cockpit views...something PD could not manage in 5+ years of development...

IDK whether it is arrogance, or ignorance that causes Kaz/PD to not take notice of the competition, but it will be irrelevant at the pace that both developers are progressing with their games...

 

[deep_sky]

I remember when Kaz once said that he played Forza 3 for "a little bit".

That is quite simply shocking because even now, he and PD could learn some things from Forza 3. And that game released over a year before GT5.

It's frightening to think how far they could be behind by the time FM4 ships.

 

[Midnight Snacks]

I think we all know by this point that Kaz is off in his own little world trying to perfect his vision of what the a racing game is. None of what Turn 10 nor anyone else does is going to shake what he believes the Real Driving Simulator should be.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Like a musician, you don't make music dictated by ur fans or what you hear on the radio, but what you feel is right and hopefully your fans will understand.

Unless you become a sell out, but I don't see Kaz, as someone dedicating a great portion of life to their creation, as selling out.

 

[Apollo87]

I really hope they do check some of the competition out there, because wether we like it or not they're doing some things that would improve the GT experience.

You can even see this with the car selection, sure GT5 has 1000+ cars but personally, I wouldn't be bothered at all if I didn't have something like the Today from 85 and I really struggle to see if someone actually wants to drive that car.

Forza is just a better game and GT5 a better sim.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

As a fan (of varying degrees) of both series this is how I see it:

FM4 is the point where Forza Motorsports begins to become the favorable title in the console racer wars. It doesn't matter that the physics aren't as good. I estimate less than 15% of the players would notice any difference between them, especially on a controller. Forza sounds better (to most ears) looks nearly as good, and has quite a bit more features. They know their target...the masses. FM4 will sell like gold.

 

[FishHunters]

Like a musician, you don't make music dictated by ur fans or what you hear on the radio, but what you feel is right and hopefully your fans will understand.

Unless you become a sell out, but I don't see Kaz, as someone dedicating a great portion of life to their creation, as selling out.

Yeah. But I think we're beyond that point now. He got the community with his "artistic impression". Now he's got to hold the community and Sony wants to grow the comunity. If your music is off key who's gonna listen?

We're not talking about buying a $20 album ($10 on itunes). Were talking about buying a $60 game, a $300 wheel and a $150 stand and a $300 game system. That's quite a lot to shell out if you don't like what's being offered.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Yeah. But I think we're beyond that point now. He got the community with his "artistic impression". Now he's got to hold the community and Sony wants to grow the comunity. If your music is off key who's gonna listen?

We're not talking about buying a $20 album ($10 on itunes). Were talking about buying a $60 game, a $300 wheel and a $150 stand and a $300 game system. That's quite a lot to shell out if you don't like what's being offered.

It's an analogy, not direct literal interpretation so spare me your pricings. We all know that's a part of it, and why things are priced like that in the industry.(Wheel/stand is choice) I buy an album, I have to go buy speakers or player/ipod.. its relatively the same.

I doubt this man is sitting back in his chair not putting any efforts or energies into his creation, and of course he'll make some changes.... he spent quite a long time on GT5 as also the Gaming Industry evolves as well in that span so the game loses some of that mainstreamness(relative to the aspects of gaming we are accostumed to at the given time), but those will catch up.

Its like if I took a while to make an album, then the mainstream music scene changed and realized its not what the masses are looking for.
Although I don't think GT is necessarily geared towards the masses/mainstream in the first place.

 

[deep_sky]

I doubt this man is sitting back in his chair not putting any efforts or energies into his creation.

Of course he isn't...the problem is that he's putting all his effort in completely the wrong things.

B-Spec, Remote Racing, racing suits...who cares about this crap? Sure, they'd be an interesting addition if more pertinent features were already included in the game, but they're not.

The fact that PD focused on garbage like B-Spec, remote racing et al, rather than VASTLY MORE IMPORTANT features like a comprehensive set of online features, communities and a deeper level of car customisation is simply inexcusable, and highlights quite clearly that PD and Kaz's "efforts and energies" are focused in completely the wrong direction.

And it's killing GT.

 

[trk29]

PD had every chance at implementing all that in GT5 when they bought the license. T10 saw what PD left out & took advantage.

I know, so what I'm saying is why didn't they. I mean a time trial on a track used for nothing but that reason and we can't even do it. But we can race a nascar on the track.

 

[FishHunters]

Like a musician, you don't make music dictated by ur fans or what you hear on the radio, but what you feel is right and hopefully your fans will understand.

Unless you become a sell out, but I don't see Kaz, as someone dedicating a great portion of life to their creation, as selling out.

It's an analogy, not direct literal interpretation so spare me your pricings. We all know that's a part of it, and why things are priced like that in the industry.(Wheel/stand is choice) I buy an album, I have to go buy speakers or player/ipod.. its relatively the same.

I doubt this man is sitting back in his chair not putting any efforts or energies into his creation, and of course he'll make some changes.... he spent quite a long time on GT5 as also the Gaming Industry evolves as well in that span so the game loses some of that mainstreamness(relative to the aspects of gaming we are accostumed to at the given time), but those will catch up.

Its like if I took a while to make an album, then the mainstream music scene changed and realized its not what the masses are looking for.
Although I don't think GT is necessarily geared towards the masses/mainstream in the first place.

An analogy? Nooooo! Really?!?!?! I'm actually agreeing with you. I think Kaz has that "artist" heart. But, the artist heart won't keep GT5 ahead of the pack by itself. He really needs to see what's going on in the industry outside of PD.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Of course he isn't...the problem is that he's putting all his effort in completely the wrong things.

B-Spec, Remote Racing, racing suits...who cares about this crap? Sure, they'd be an interesting addition if more pertinent features were already included in the game, but they're not.

The fact that PD focused on garbage like B-Spec, remote racing et al, rather than VASTLY MORE IMPORTANT features like a comprehensive set of online features, communities and a deeper level of car customisation is simply inexcusable, and highlights quite clearly that PD and Kaz's "efforts and energies" are focused in completely the wrong direction.

And it's killing GT.

B-specs been apart of the GT series already, It's not like he went off on to some tangent. Some people like it, some don't, and I'm sure it wasn't the hardest thing to create in the game, but an add-on and configuring of AI. as with the suits.

Some people like the personality of the suits and helmets, I for one think they are pretty cool and definitely not the hardest thing to create.

Online has a fair set of features, and they have updated some. Not bad for being their first full game online. And I'm sure it will get better as the servers for Prologue are shutdown.

Customization has never been apart of GT and I feel is one of those things that sprung up in Simulation Racing genre through progression of gaming that he needs to catch up on.

I think the majority of time spent was with physics engine/cars/online/real world tracks/transition and weather. The premium cars were spent too much time with as Kaz has stated, so high expectation but poorly managed.
BUT regardless those aspects are where I think the majority of "energy and effort" was spent, and thats fine with me.

I believe he put a huge burden on himself also trying to do rally/nascar/karts/psp game/etc. He set the bar high for himself, and sure he didn't reach it, but stop acting like he's not trying.

An analogy? Nooooo! Really?!?!?! I'm actually agreeing with you. I think Kaz has that "artist" heart. But, the artist heart won't keep GT5 ahead of the pack by itself. He really needs to see what's going on in the industry outside of PD.

Well then you shouldn't have made a literal comparison. But I do agree he needs to catch-up with industry standards in some departments, that's why I made my other statement about the length of time and progression of the gaming industry.. so yes there are some things they need to catch up on, and I have no doubt they will.

 

[IceMan PJN]

Do you think the "competition" ever crosses PD's mind?

No.

Sony and Polyphony both share a common philosophy. They choose to pretend that their products exist in a vacuum. Sony bends over backwards to enforce that illusion. I remember back when the playable GT5 demo came out and people on the PlayStation.com boards were complaining that the cockpit camera was too far forward, and I defended it by pointing out that folks made the same complaint of FM3, but that was unacceptable no matter how relevant, so I got moderated for shattering the illusion that there's products that aren't on PlayStation. Even if it's relevant and meaningful to the discussion at hand, Sony refused to acknowledge that any non-PlayStation games existed and silenced anybody that mentioned anything indicating otherwise.

Likewise, PD has been laboring to invent the wheel even though wheels have been around for a very long time. By this illustration what I mean is that PD has been very slowly working toward things that other franchises have been doing for years. Instead of just taking note of what others have done, PD appears to be completely unaware of what others have long achieved and instead waits to invent all these things for what they will believe to be the first time. For example, they're completely unaware that other racing games have fast forward and rewind options in their replays, but some day years down the road PD may eventually come up with these features on their own... some day.

By the 2016 release of GT6 we may even get a basic livery editor, even though a hundred other racing games have already had some form of livery editor. Heck, even Top Gear Rally on N64 had a livery editor by which you could draw whatever you want anywhere on the car, back in 1997. PD hasn't noticed this common and popular feature but will eventually come up with this brilliant idea all on their own some day. Kaz might be high and imagine a purple buffalo pitching the livery editor idea to him, but he'll think it's brilliant and never been done before.

I should note that I'm not really meaning all that to sound like I'm just sitting around flaming PD. I just want GT to get better, I'm mildly aggravated that they've been so ignorant, stubborn, and daft with some things, and hope that if I'm vocal enough that people will jump onboard the PD-please-listen bandwagon, maybe some day they'll take notice and listen. I really want PD to take notes from what the other guys have been doing and just blatantly rip them off if they must do so if it means getting some good ideas, not to mention the common sense stuff, worked into their games.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

^Your so smart lad, you have all the answers...

 

[Inferno251]

It make me think that for Forza to copy the features GT5 has (i.e: head tracking,photo mode and now Top Gear) is sad and it shows how uncreative they are.

By the 2016 release of GT6 we may even get a basic livery editor

Or they might add it in a major GT5 update. I hope they bring back the liveries from the RM cars in GT2 (although it's unlikely)

 

[deep_sky]

He set the bar high for himself, and sure he didn't reach it, but stop acting like he's not trying.

I'm not saying he's not trying.

I'm saying he's completely out of touch with what's going on with all the major competitors, he's out of touch with what gamers want which culminates in what I said: he and PD are focusing their efforts on things people are simply not asking for.

No-one is asking for B-Spec. No-one is asking for racing suits. No-one is asking for Remote Racing.

If you want to see what people are actually asking for, check out http://feedback.gtplanet.net and you'll come to realise that they did not deliver what consumers actually wanted, and instead delivered - and continue to deliver - features that no-one is asking for.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

^No console game is strictly made off what the consumers want. (There's more to it than "hey we want everything we want in a game")

This is something that is relatively new, due to internet/forums. I guarantee no other game has a list like that.

Please stop being so selfish.

Like I said B-spec has been apart of the series already. So they continued it.

Racing suits is just racing suits, he wanted it(and I promise you They didn't just make them these past 3 months, its just multiple shaders varying colors). You assume those features will exchange for more premiums or tracks, it doesn't work like that especially when weighing out process of creation among them. And you assume they're not working on any of that right now.

 

[deep_sky]

"^No console game is strictly made off what the consumers want."

So...what? PD should ignore consumers?

PD Guy 1: Hey dude, people are asking for a livery editor, a better replay system, a better paint chip/paint preview system, practice/qualifying sessions...what should we do?"

PD Guy 2: Let's give them racing suits!!

Come on MoGo, you're clearly a passionate about GT, just like we all are, but you've just got to let it go. Just accept Polyphony are miles behind; accept that they could have improved the game immeasurably had they paid attention to the competition and accept that if they listened to the community both before and after shipping, GT5 would be a very different proposition.

Don't fight it, embrace it.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

^I'm not fighting, I'm just at a level of understanding unlike the majority of people who think they have the definitive answers, with no awareness of the process.

I like how you put words in mouth err post. Did you read my second line.

I already gave possible reason on livery editor, as that was never a part of GT. And Kaz being the perfectionist he is, is not gunna just slap something in there.

I've already said some parts they need to catch up on, but they are miles ahead of where it matters for a driving/racing simulator..... The physics, physics in relation to car, real world track replications.

I'm not trying to argue anything, but get rid of these egotistical posts and provide perspective.

 

[deep_sky]

"but they are miles ahead of where it matters for a driving/racing simulator.... The physics"

No-one is doubting that. At all. But there is a reason why titles like iRacing, r-Factor et al are small titles, and that's because there is a huge disconnect between the sim fanatic and the casual/normal racer - the latter of which are unquestionably responsible for the majority of GT's sales.

This casual/normal player buys GT for many reasons...many of which do not include the physics.

That GT is miles ahead in physics is a great achievement, but ultimately counts for very little if you're not going to deliver features that the vast majority of the audience now demands and expects, especially as this audience has little interest about GT's qualifications as a simulator.

 

[FishHunters]

^I'm not fighting, I'm just at a level of understanding unlike the majority of people who think they have the definitive answers, with no awareness of the process.

I like how you put words in mouth err post. Did you read my second line.

I already gave possible reason on livery editor, as that was never a part of GT. And Kaz being the perfectionist he is, is not gunna just slap something in there.

I've already said some parts they need to catch up on, but they are miles ahead of where it matters for a driving/racing simulator..... The physics, physics in relation to car, real world track replications.

I'm not trying to argue anything, but get rid of these egotistical posts and provide perspective.

And 60% of Americans think they are above average which is STATISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!

 

[FishHunters]

We'll the one thing that the PS3 has that the Xbox doesn't is a blu-ray player and free online access. So I guess I'm stuck with Sony & PD.

 

[McLaren]

I know, so what I'm saying is why didn't they. I mean a time trial on a track used for nothing but that reason and we can't even do it. But we can race a nascar on the track.

Then why are you posting as if "M$" paid to have all the features to themselves?

MS never kept PD from implementing any of the thing's T10 is doing.

 

[Pianoman]

The problem with present gaming-industry is, that it is going too fast. Casual player is the new term of mass gaming industry - unfortunately... I own PS3, Xbox360, even Nintendo´s (Wii, DSi) and I remember the superb Forza 2 physics, which - btw: was much more hardcore then in present FM3. The fact is that Microsoft decided how the new Forza franchise will look like, not T10. They prefer "motorsport experience for masses" - that´s why open lobby, hardcore physics is no longer included in Forza franchise (it will be probably the same in FM4).

The intentional marketing pressure on "casual player" content means much more money for Microsoft. As soon as Sony will do the same with PD (the GT will be changed forever). It will be next one from tenths motorsport game where "casual player/content" will be preferred. That means more gaming features, less driving experience.

I personally prefer the hardcore element of GT5, because it´s more about "driving then painting" and only (!) choice on consoles (all formats). The problem is that hardcore element is in minority (as we can see per example here at GTP forum). Most of the people prefer "gamish element", hence the fact that GT6 will be different, but definitely less hardcore, because of "casual player mass market". That will be the end of pure driving experience on consoles... "Thanks" to all "gamish heads" instead of "petrol heads" they don´t understand Kaz´s vision and will ruin GT forever.

Generally speaking: If I want to have fun with my 3 years old son I go for Forza3, Shift2, Dirt2, NFS Hot-Pursuit, Test Drive Unlimited 2 etc... etc.... The list is endless. When I want to drive a car I go for GT5 or iRacing. Why people cannot do the same and want everything in GT?

 

[DEATHSARTHE]

The only thing Turn 10 has over PD is that they were able to produce 2 sequels for the X360 before Gran Turismo would even resurface. That's a whole lot of momentum to be riding into their 4th sequel releasing this year.

I would like to point out...

Gran Turismo is a huge title in the PS3 lineup and in the gaming community all together. While Forza is riding a lot of momentum into FM4, PD has been in this business for 13 years and has been riding momentum since I believe GT2. However you guys want to look at it, Forza is a knock off of Gran Turismo. It's an imitator Microsoft financed to get in on the niche that PD created.

GT doesn't need Top Gear to be successful - as its history points out. There is plenty of other automotive media out there to incorperate into GT. Top Gear is an entirely different entity whose only purpose in GT is just to supplement some of the fun factor inbetween races with something some of their market could relate to. I'd hope PD is looking at other motorsport organizations to incorperate in the game which is much more important to me than that sloth-human hybrid James and that shaved beaver Hammond. It's nice to have Top Gear's support, but Top Gear's involvement should be nothing more than just the track and the Stig, and I'm so happy that GT5 isn't laced with TG propoganda on every other menu.

Seriously, when GT caters so much to TG that it would be impossible to escape Jeremy Clarkon's **** eating, mongloid grin - that's when I would stop playing it and most likely stop playing these sorts of games all together.

 

[VBR]

I remember an interview ages ago where Kaz was asked if he plays other racing games & he said something along the lines of: 'no, I don't pay much attention to them'. Came across as being very arrogant to me, I guess that's why PD are getting left behind in so many areas & the game feels somewhat dated overall.



👎

 

[deep_sky]

However you guys want to look at it, Forza is a knock off of Gran Turismo

Dear oh dear oh dear.

In 2005, maybe. But now? Forza is in a league of its own, and GT is struggling to compete.

 

[Zer0]

I remember an interview ages ago where Kaz was asked if he plays other racing games & he said something along the lines of: 'no, I don't pay much attention to them'. Came across as being very arrogant to me, I guess that's why PD are getting left behind in so many areas & the game feels somewhat dated overall.



👎

Have you played Forza Motorsport 3?

KY: I was watching the guys at our company trying it out in the office. I tried it a little bit. It's very similar in a lot of aspects to Gran Turismo. Some base components of the game are very different from Gran Turismo. It's a little bit different from what a simulator is. You can feel it when you drive it.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/27092784

 

[Spagetti69]

Yes it crosses their mind they just don't care really.

They have got the PS3 Market all sown up.

No probs.

 

[RazorsEdge]

As simplified: Forza is only copying all the ideas GT5 has.
As example, Forza copied Top Gear stuff: after GT5 was released with top gear stuff, Turn 10 published FOrza 3 Top Gear edition or something like that