- 1,846
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- maxpontiac
You can sure tell the Forza fans from the GT fans in this thread.
Do you think the "competition" ever crosses PD's mind?
- Thread starter GTOne2Three
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- Canada
- mikethehockeyfan
You can be a fan of particular features from one series or the other. Mixing and matching is fine, fanboyism accomplishes nothing IMO.
- 535
- New York
- Metfanant
- Metfanant
BiNGO!...i think GT5 OVERALL is the better game from an ON THE TRACK standpoint...
OFF the track however Forza is the Top Dog...
a combination of the two games would just be unbelievably good...
- 432
- SmoothHerb
Forza,Need for speed, Midnight club, Test drive....
GT,IRacing,Live for Speed,Rfactor...
GT is in a whole other league than Forza.
Forza has much to offer but it still is a arcarde game.
I prefer less content (customizewise) but good physics.
GT,IRacing,Live for Speed,Rfactor...
GT is in a whole other league than Forza.
Forza has much to offer but it still is a arcarde game.
I prefer less content (customizewise) but good physics.
- 303
- orlando/fl/usa
- devildogg666
I don't think they care too much since they don't directly compete with Turn 10 since they're both exclusive to different consoles.
mykem
Premium
- 1,260
Exactly. What PD is trying with the GT series especially recently is to bridge the gap between virtual racing and real world racing. Sure there's a lot of things that can be improved in the game but creating GT Academy, for example, is unprecedented. And just to prove how successful GT Academy is, the first guy who won the competition, Lucas Ordonez, is now sitting on pole at Le Mans (Lucas clocked the fastest time in the LMP2 category).
Then there's the 24 Hour of Nurburgring that Gran Turismo has been sponsoring since 2007. No other games be it Forza or NFS put their money back into the sport that they're benefitting from.
- 1,466
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- mikethehockeyfan
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- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
There groupings are horribly wrong.
If Forza is an arcade game, then GT is an arcade game.
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- GTP_Daverytimes
- Don't Need One
Calling Forza Arcade is a bit foolish in my opinion, it might not be a Sim but it's far from an arcade game. The same can be said about GT5, it's not an arcade game but it's also not a "hardcore" Sim. GT5 in terms of physics will most likely always be ahead of Forza series but as a game it probably would not surpass the Forza series. It's good that PD is focusing on the sim aspect of their game's but it wouldn't hurt if they focused on the 'game' aspect of it for once.
DAVE
yea,..............................................no.
- 549
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- GTP_Daverytimes
- Don't Need One
Double post. srry
- 1,732
- cuco33
2 things...
1. Lucas Ordonez was also a Kart racer, not just a GT racer so he benefited from his experience in both sim racing and karting. Had he never karted before, his achievements would be even more impressive. iRacing had their own GT Academy type of event and their winner was a young kid who on his first real world trials at a track was not far off from the lap record.
2. I was at the 2007 Le Mans event. Here's a pic I took of La Sarthe's main straight:
And this was their tent in the 'inside village' area of the track, demoing off Forza 2 which happened to be across the road's GT demo.
I'd post a pic of Sony's booth but the picture file was corrupt
Microsoft also sponsored the factory Peugeot 908 LM car in 2007 with xbox360 logos:
which was eventually sponsored by Sony the following year(s) but MS kept at it with the 908 sponsorships
I also believe Microsoft sponsored a Nascar team.
GT being Sony's biggest franchise by a huge margin has spurred the company to sponsor motorsports events. I will 100% agree on Sony being far bigger in terms of motorsports sponsorships than Microsoft though.
- 535
- New York
- Metfanant
- Metfanant
please...only a PURE hater would categorize GT and Forza the way you have..
actually i completely agree with his statement...GT is a BETTER SIM than Forza...but its not lightyears better...if Forza gets labeled as an arcade game then GT has to go right along with it...
on the vast majority of GT5's cars i can't even change the rims...
the driving physics in GT5 are no doubt more accurate...but that doesn't make Forza an arcade game...and hey...lets look off the track for a second...
in real life....
- I can paint my car whatever color i want, whenever i want without having to earn a paint chip....which game is more a "sim" here?
- in real life i can put all sorts of decals and stickers on my car....which game is more of a "sim" here?
- in real life i can swap out the rims on ANY car that i own or might own in the future, not just ~20% of them...which game is more of a "sim" here?
- in real life i can paint my rims whatever color i want...even stock rims, and i don't need a paint chip here either...which game is more a "sim" here?
Sometimes i think a lot of the posters here live in the same bubble world that Kaz does when it comes to other games....there is such an elitest attitude regarding GT as a whole that its almost sickening...if the Forza haters here were actually mature enough to sit down with the game for a few weeks and actually play it i would almost guarantee that most of their attitudes would change completely...
- 1,335
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- TEAM-SWD-daus26
Well, whenever we talk about "sim," I think it's just about the driving physics, not so much the experience. Or maybe you're trying to point out something else.
I definitely agree with your point though. Just because GT5 maybe slightly more realistic in terms of driving physics, doesn't make Forza an arcade, or vice versa for those that think otherwise.
On topic, if Kaz was human, I would assume competition would cross his mind at some point. We humans live to make a living, and if he wants to continue to be successful, he's gonna need to respond, or even exceed the competition.
I think the problem lies with the staffing. Kaz has the vision, but the problem, (especially for GT5) was the development time. Spending too long on a game only gives time for competition to step it up. When it gets too long, you end up being the one playing catch up. If PD were to be bigger in staffing, perhaps we can get closer to this vision Kaz has, without having to wait so long for it. What I want to see is how grand this vision of his is, and if it will truly take racing to a level we've never before see, or even thought of.
I definitely agree with your point though. Just because GT5 maybe slightly more realistic in terms of driving physics, doesn't make Forza an arcade, or vice versa for those that think otherwise.
On topic, if Kaz was human, I would assume competition would cross his mind at some point. We humans live to make a living, and if he wants to continue to be successful, he's gonna need to respond, or even exceed the competition.
I think the problem lies with the staffing. Kaz has the vision, but the problem, (especially for GT5) was the development time. Spending too long on a game only gives time for competition to step it up. When it gets too long, you end up being the one playing catch up. If PD were to be bigger in staffing, perhaps we can get closer to this vision Kaz has, without having to wait so long for it. What I want to see is how grand this vision of his is, and if it will truly take racing to a level we've never before see, or even thought of.
shirakawaa
Premium
- 5,034
- GTP_shirakawaa
Also, GT5 physics still have room for improvement in many areas although they're good enough for a console racing game (I guess. Honestly, I want them to be better).
- 143
- team_blitz_ghost
Metfanant
Okay. But how many cars can you swap a forza R1 engine into an old car and make it beat everything else? You can't. Which ones more of a sim now?
- 535
- New York
- Metfanant
- Metfanant
i agree with you...but lets be honest...there is a reason that PURE racing sims are generally small titles...because they just don't sell...
there is more to a good game than just how it performs on the track...it needs to be the whole package...and GT5 is just adequate as the whole package...its saving grace are its beautiful graphics and its physics...while Forza is slightly less impressive with its visuals and physics...in many areas its a MUCH more complete game than GT5...
absolutely agree...
and and actually im hoping that Sony tightens the reigns quite a bit for GT6...i think that going into GT5 it was alright for Sony to let Kaz have his way...do whatever he wanted...but i think that PD dropped the ball...and Sony can't allow that to happen again with GT6...
Kaz has said he wanted 2 more years for GT5...well that means that GT6 could be done in that 2 year time...
its not just about being bigger...PD has a pretty good sized staff...its simply about being better. I hate to say this, and many will disagree but PD, like the vast majority of Japanese developers this generation has completely fallen behind in their ability to push the hardware to its limits...
some of the technical choices involved with Gran Turismo were mind boggling, and most likely caused because development was so long that new techniques had been invented in the mean time...and implementation of those would have caused more delays...
as a first party studio Polyphony has access to THE BEST at getting the most out of the PS3 hardware...namely Guerilla Games, Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, and Sony's ICE Team (housed in the same building as Naughty Dog)...Now obviously these developers do not make racing games, but they are ALL currently better at pushing things out of the PS3 than PD is...
i guarantee that if PD had brought in some people from those various studios throughout the development process that there could have been A LOT of optimization done to improve the performance of GT5...
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- team_blitz_ghost
prymet1me
You try fitting a v10 into the engine bay of an i4 datsun. And then tell me that again.
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- Metfanant
- Metfanant
you can't do engine swaps in real life?...really?...Turn 10's engine swap system is more accurate than Polyphony's non-existent system...
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- prymet1me
Oh you are one of those types... Yea read what you quoted again from me, key words >> Just about Notice I didnt say every very very important. Great to have many many more options in a games isnt it? Even if the physics are not 100% accurate to real life as GT5 some how the "competition" still manged to make a pretty good sim...err arcade game.
Seems the "competition" may not cross Kaz's mind but it crosses some of the gamers mind to try and nit pick the silliest things to prove a point. But hey you can always fall back on the physics and helmets.
- 467
- THE_LAST_FAOLIU
Games like Project Gotham Racing and Forza Motorsports exist because of Gran Turismo. The original will always sell better than the knockoffs. Turn 10 is kidding themselves if they really think they'll "dethrone" Kaz, PD, and Gran Turismo.
When I heard Turn 10 say a couple years ago that FM3 was going to replace GT, or as if it were more like a "passing of the torch," I couldn't have laughed harder and I immediately lost all respect for Turn 10 and whatever Forza is doing.
PD isn't out to compete with anyone. They've built this market themselves and will continue to pioneer with their own original ideas, as they've done for 13 years now. This is their mindset. When Forza can do the same thing, and I mean not take ideas from all their competitors but actually go out on a limb and develop something original that works... only then they might be competitive because then they would have something really different to offer gamers.
But I'm afraid after 2 sequels on X360 already, I don't think they've really sold their product and I don't truly believe that people (as in consumers) think it is "original." Otherwise, the sales figures would've said something else. ATM, Forza is simply riding the coat tails of Gran Turismo... they're not going to get anywhere like that.
When I heard Turn 10 say a couple years ago that FM3 was going to replace GT, or as if it were more like a "passing of the torch," I couldn't have laughed harder and I immediately lost all respect for Turn 10 and whatever Forza is doing.
PD isn't out to compete with anyone. They've built this market themselves and will continue to pioneer with their own original ideas, as they've done for 13 years now. This is their mindset. When Forza can do the same thing, and I mean not take ideas from all their competitors but actually go out on a limb and develop something original that works... only then they might be competitive because then they would have something really different to offer gamers.
But I'm afraid after 2 sequels on X360 already, I don't think they've really sold their product and I don't truly believe that people (as in consumers) think it is "original." Otherwise, the sales figures would've said something else. ATM, Forza is simply riding the coat tails of Gran Turismo... they're not going to get anywhere like that.
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- 7,620
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
And why not what exactly does GT have that elevates it two levels above Forza? GT has better physics [well some of the physics anyway] yeah, and then that's about it. Neither have qualification which is laughable. At least in Forza the rear wing performance has units, and you can gather real time telemetry.
Allegedly
http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/sss620/V10Zenginebayafter.jpg
http://www.datsunminitruckin.com/datsun-wtfs_topic750.html
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- prymet1me
And why not what exactly does GT have that elevates it two levels above Forza? GT has better physics [well some of the physics anyway] yeah, and then that's about it. Neither have qualification which is laughable. At least in Forza the rear wing performance has units, and you can gather real time telemetry.
Allegedly
http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/sss620/V10Zenginebayafter.jpg
http://www.datsunminitruckin.com/datsun-wtfs_topic750.html
Welp, whats going to be next bullet point lol, nice find.
- 1,732
- cuco33
Real life E30 M3 w/ a BMW M5 V10 in the bay
The BMW E30 M3 is a car I soooooooooo want in GT5 (hoping for DLC) and I'd keep it the standard 2.3L I4 it came with for balancing reasons or upgrade to the E36 M3's 3.2L I6. The E30 M3 w/ it's lighter I4 isn't the most powerful but it handles very well. Tossing in a V10 at the front end would make it nose heavy so handling would be affected. That's where suspension work comes in though, and I'd say it'll pull on the straights like mad but be slower on the twisties over a standard M.
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- prymet1me
Its a small GT bubble you are in, if you wanted to high light the biggest thing GT may have done would be the first simulation racing game on home consoles. So does that mean there should never be another simulation racing game? It really seems GT has gotten an arrogant aura about it and the sad part is nothing much will ever change or evolve with that kind of attitude. I would swear Steve Jobs must have blessed Kaz with some of the distortion magic with some of the posts on this website and the few GT "hardcore" fans that actually have a 360 and play both get shunned and outcasted for admitting Forza is a good game and they enjoy playing it....even more than GT5.
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- UK
I popped in FM3 the other night to do a bit more of the career mode since it will be taken into account for FM4, and I'd just finished doing some seasonal events in GT5, so it was a kind of back-to-back situation..
I'd always liked GT5's lower grip levels (if anything a little too low by default), and immediacy of rotation when you loose grip, making the car feel more alive, so was dreading going back to FM.. However, despite immediately obvious higher grip levels (a bit too high compared to real life), and the much more obvious tendancy to understeer, with very little steering FFB resistance, what immediately hit me by the end of the lap was how you can really feel the tyres in FM, the FFB lets you know when it's slipping and transitioning, and going over kerbs etc is all felt and modelled well.. I actually enjoyed it more then I thought.. In fact after 4 hours, when I went back to GT5, it took my a while to re-adjust again, you loose all the low level tyre feel, making maximising grip a bit difficult, but gain the overall low grip, loose feel of the car.. Compare the two on physics, it's hard, they are very different, good at some stuff, bad at others, I much prefer hotlapping on FM, but racing in GT.. go figure.
Anyway, I fired up Race 07 that I'd got for £4 on Steam the other night, and bam.. like when I pop back into iRacing, It took about 10 laps in a single seater before I could even get around without having a major unrecoverable off, the transition of grip, and the behaviour of the tyres on even a slightly out of date PC sim was just night and day to the consoles..
Anyone seriously saying either console game on a physics level should be put on the same rung as PC sims surely is being far too generous?
bottom line,
In GT5 (and FM) "I'm a driving god", able to tame and play around with any high powered car, throwing it around the nurb at full chat, slipping/sliding and yet keeping it roughly on track the whole time.. Yet on the PC, it feels like coming back down to earth with a bump.. "I'm just an average joe"..
The conclusion is easy, GT/FM are not actually that realistic, but crucially, they put a bigger smile on my face..
I'd always liked GT5's lower grip levels (if anything a little too low by default), and immediacy of rotation when you loose grip, making the car feel more alive, so was dreading going back to FM.. However, despite immediately obvious higher grip levels (a bit too high compared to real life), and the much more obvious tendancy to understeer, with very little steering FFB resistance, what immediately hit me by the end of the lap was how you can really feel the tyres in FM, the FFB lets you know when it's slipping and transitioning, and going over kerbs etc is all felt and modelled well.. I actually enjoyed it more then I thought.. In fact after 4 hours, when I went back to GT5, it took my a while to re-adjust again, you loose all the low level tyre feel, making maximising grip a bit difficult, but gain the overall low grip, loose feel of the car.. Compare the two on physics, it's hard, they are very different, good at some stuff, bad at others, I much prefer hotlapping on FM, but racing in GT.. go figure.
Anyway, I fired up Race 07 that I'd got for £4 on Steam the other night, and bam.. like when I pop back into iRacing, It took about 10 laps in a single seater before I could even get around without having a major unrecoverable off, the transition of grip, and the behaviour of the tyres on even a slightly out of date PC sim was just night and day to the consoles..
Anyone seriously saying either console game on a physics level should be put on the same rung as PC sims surely is being far too generous?
bottom line,
In GT5 (and FM) "I'm a driving god", able to tame and play around with any high powered car, throwing it around the nurb at full chat, slipping/sliding and yet keeping it roughly on track the whole time.. Yet on the PC, it feels like coming back down to earth with a bump.. "I'm just an average joe"..
The conclusion is easy, GT/FM are not actually that realistic, but crucially, they put a bigger smile on my face..
- 926
- machschnel
Reading some of the posts in this thread, you'd think Kaz is some bohemian artist, who has total disregard for money and customers, preferring to simply let his creative juices flow......
The only problem is, he is making racing games. Racing games that don't even hold a candle to the iRacings, GTR's of the genre. And not only that, his games are quite expensive to make. He isnt in some niche market, where 2-3 sales will keep him going for another year.
Like it or nor, Kaz answers to Sony and through them, us, the consumers.
The only problem is, he is making racing games. Racing games that don't even hold a candle to the iRacings, GTR's of the genre. And not only that, his games are quite expensive to make. He isnt in some niche market, where 2-3 sales will keep him going for another year.
Like it or nor, Kaz answers to Sony and through them, us, the consumers.
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,597
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
- 646
- UK
Is this guy for real? Talk about a reality distortion field.
Forza has been a franchise that has been growing and growing, whereas GT has been in constant decline both commercially and critically since GT3.
I'd say it's GT that's not going anywhere other than backwards.
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