Do you think the "competition" ever crosses PD's mind?
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I believe they assume it doesn't change the physical dimensions of the chassis/suspension, and it is a simple case of it affecting weight/weight distribution...
It simple enough to work reasonably well.
mykem
Premium
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2 things...
1. Lucas Ordonez was also a Kart racer, not just a GT racer so he benefited from his experience in both sim racing and karting. Had he never karted before, his achievements would be even more impressive. iRacing had their own GT Academy type of event and their winner was a young kid who on his first real world trials at a track was not far off from the lap record.
2. I was at the 2007 Le Mans event. Here's a pic I took of La Sarthe's main straight:
And this was their tent in the 'inside village' area of the track, demoing off Forza 2 which happened to be across the road's GT demo.
I'd post a pic of Sony's booth but the picture file was corrupt
Microsoft also sponsored the factory Peugeot 908 LM car in 2007 with xbox360 logos:
which was eventually sponsored by Sony the following year(s) but MS kept at it with the 908 sponsorships
I also believe Microsoft sponsored a Nascar team.
GT being Sony's biggest franchise by a huge margin has spurred the company to sponsor motorsports events. I will 100% agree on Sony being far bigger in terms of motorsports sponsorships than Microsoft though.
The point isn't whether the game is good enough to produce a race driver but rather the program implemented. Had PD/Sony/Nissan not came up with the idea of GT Academy fueled of course by the game itself, Lucas might not be where he is today.
Sure, Turn 10/Xbox have sponsored racers and cars etc. but compare the ad banner of Forza at Le Mans to that of Gran Turismo. You obviously know that the bigger the sign/ad the more money has been paid by the sponsor. Of course, you probably already know that other than being the main sponsor of 24 hour of Nurburgring (the keyword being main, not merely one that sets up booth at events), PD also sponsors the Japanese Super GT series and D1 GP (that's drifting GP).
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- counter345
Agree. 100%.
Soon, money will be so much of an issue that there won't be any "real driving simulators" any more. I play GT5 to experience the thrill of a rear wheel drive car round a corner- not by customizing the side of my car or what ever.
Point is, if I want a simulator, GT5 is there.
A game? Mario Kart Wii.
- 2,321
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- TSR_GTWelsh
The way I kinda see it is...
GT6 is the game we are waiting for.. Hopefully.
GT5: P was supposed to be a demo.
Well my thought on it is...
GT5: P is like, GT6 in the Alpha stage of development
GT5 is the Beta stage of development for GT6.
and GT6 will be the complete game..
FORZA ON THE OTHER HAND
Release full games every time. Albeit not the best. But full nonetheless.
GT6 is the game we are waiting for.. Hopefully.
GT5: P was supposed to be a demo.
Well my thought on it is...
GT5: P is like, GT6 in the Alpha stage of development
GT5 is the Beta stage of development for GT6.
and GT6 will be the complete game..
FORZA ON THE OTHER HAND
Release full games every time. Albeit not the best. But full nonetheless.
- 646
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If that's how it is for you, then that's great...but that's not how it works for the majority of the audience.
The majority of the audience don't give two hoots about GT's qualifications as a simulator; they buy GT for they own reasons, and some people are going to have to learn to accept that some people want, amongst other things, customisation and a strong game component as part of the package before they commit.
If you both think that trying to get more casual players to GT is somehow a bad thing, then you're simply harming the future of the franchise. There is absolutely no reason why GT cannot cater to everybody, whatever their reasons for buying GT.
GT needs as many people buying the game as possible to help keep funding the studio and its staff. If only simulation fanatics bought GT, GT would be an absolute fraction of what it is today, make no mistake about that at all.
- 549
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- GTP_Daverytimes
- Don't Need One
I should have made myself clear, but looking at my previous statement before the one you quoted i clearly said that "Forza was not an arcade game" so my response to the later ('If Forza is arcade then GT5 should be arcade as well') was not me trying to defend GT5 as being light-years ahead of Forza, rather it was me saying that both games are not on the same group of physics. Let's put it this way, There are three levels of simulators: Semi-sim, Sim's, and "Hardcore" Sims (Notice the term "Hardcore" is a vague term). Forza, Nfs Shift and Dirt (Dirt being the least) are Semi-sims. GT5, GTR, and Race 07 are normal sim's. Then comes the "Hardcore Sim's" which include gems like GPL, GTlegends, Iracing, LFS, rFactor(with a lot of mods) and many more. Forza has and probably will always beat GT in terms of presentation and "fun" but if there is a place they can;t compete on it's the physics. Obviously there is a LOT of room for improvement. Oh and btw calculating rear wing performance has nothing to do with how good the final result of the physics is. 👍👍
Forza 4 looks awesome
so lets not start arguing.DAVE
@deepsky
"The majority of the audience don't give two hoots about GT's qualifications as a simulator"
Whaaat!? The majority as in the masses or the developed fanbase? you've got it all wrong.
@prymetime
I think it's because people consider consider GT more of Simulation Racer/Challenging, than Forza an arcade racer.
"The majority of the audience don't give two hoots about GT's qualifications as a simulator"
Whaaat!? The majority as in the masses or the developed fanbase? you've got it all wrong.
@prymetime
I think it's because people consider consider GT more of Simulation Racer/Challenging, than Forza an arcade racer.
- 549
- Florida
- GTP_Daverytimes
- Don't Need One
Forza is on a competing console and has always been GT5's competition which is what this thread is about, right? And who said anything about GT5 being a "god tier of racing games" haven't you seen people in this website constantly point out games that are better than GT5? in fact this website is the most critical of GT5. Where have you been the past 6 months?
DAVE
- 646
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No, I really haven't.
If you think all of the 14.89 million people who bought GT3, the 11.19 million people who bought GT4 and the 6.37 million people who all bought GT5 are all simulation fanatics and the physics are the only thing they care about....well, you're so deluded that I don't know what to tell you.
In fact, I've come to the conclusion that you're just trolling us, as no-one can be that ignorant to reality, so I'm just going to stop now.
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- prymet1me
You are the one that called it a semi sim and placed it with NFS, so what is it bro, consoles or category?
you funny little man.
They're a multiple reasons why those games were, bought. You act as if customization was apart of it. Now i'd like customization as well, but that has never been a foundation of the GT series.
Troll? what the f. Get out of here with those little kid statements.
BTW I know you've read the front cover of the game.
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It's the biggest exclusive racing game for Xbox 360 and GT5 is the biggest exclusive racing game for PS3, they are bound to be compared no matter what. Forza is a better game with more emphasis on "fun" while GT5 fails as a game, but emphasizes physics. It's up to you which one you like.
DAVE
Downhill Dino
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Your going to get some nasty responses to that.
But in my own input. Is it really that big of a deal? I think GT5 is perfect!
And Forza looks too cartoony. End of my opinion, have a good day gentlemen.
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- Flsurffisher
With GT5 we were expecting to be "blown-away". We were expecting "oh-man", "wow", "that is so cool!", "this is the best game ever"! That is not what we got. It is not a "blown-away" experience. I don't think expectations were too high either. From the beginning to 5 the "blown-away" feeling kept building and 5 just let the air out of the bubble.
- 1,116
- Gassolini
The walk around, opening doors, getting in, etc. -presentation thing is a good many light year ahead of GT5's museum cards. It's certainly not a copy of anything in the GT series. Instead, PD might want to copy that and ditch the pointless museum cards
It seem to me that PD could do well by paying more attention to what goes on elsewhere - this is not a new subject, many postings have been written about that previously here on GTP. The presentation, form and features are very Japanese'ish... As it is, GT5 is very slick stuff in its own way, but it could be more engaging on some levels by absorbing a bit more 'culture' from other games.
One thing PD does extremely well is the actual coding and the graphics bit. I get the impression of Japanese efficiency and precision when I consider the quality of the actual programming. It's very consistent and there aren't many bugs to be seen (I've seen none). That is something which western developers should take inspiration from IMO.
DJ
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And it didn't help that Kaz kept talking a good game. "I want to exceed gamers expectations", "we want it to be perfect", etc, etc.
In retrospect, it's quite clear the guy was talking bullcrap for over two years. Either that, or he's as deluded as some posters here
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- oni_teacher
The common sensation is that Forza 4 will overall gt5 no doubt. I played Forza 3, it's a good game but it seems like the china version of a beautiful Armani's dress, it's a copy, the strategy of turn10 is to copy guidelines and improve them, there's no love in it, no passion. But great mistakes were made by PD with gt5, the standard/premium s***t was ridicolous, they had no time to complete because they had to put 56 miata, 45 corolla, and 78 r35? they have to create a stronger link with the strongest funbase, in the era of internet and modding, this is in my opinion the key of success.
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- THE_LAST_FAOLIU
I don't get where you get that I've said this...
Already you're being far too defensive or objective to really discuss anything with. I've lost interest in the rest of your post since it is clear you're just out to twist words and grab ideas out of TROLL WORLD. 👎👎Absolutely not true, if this is something that you really think is happening - you're the one to talk about "distortion fields."deep_sky
Many would credit GT4 as being one of the best driving games for that generation of console. I believe one of the reasons it wasn't as successful as GT3 was because of the long production time which occurred around the same time as a pretty big video game boom. While there wasn't much happening in Sony's gaming lineup, Microsoft was in progress in advertising for the X360 and Halo 2. If this wasn't enough, World of Warcraft and Sims 2 also drove sales away from all consoles. There was a lot going on during GT4's production hell and ultimately and theres no way a driving sim could've competed any better than GT4 did.
GT5
, for being a glorified demo, was also successful - more successful than FM3, a full fledged game. GT5 itself is the top selling PS3 game ever and has introduced a whole slew of new features, as well as expanding on original ideas even further. While not as polished as GT4, and I've gone into many reason why it wasn't, it is still on the leading edge.Fact is, Gran Turismo has never looked at any of it's competition all that deep because it's far too busy running with what's got (which has been madly successful) and moving on to bigger better things. And besides, all PD would see if they looked at their competition is some Turn 10 designer feverishly writing down notes lol. It's not arrogance, it's just how PD does things and what makes their game unique. They're not interested in engine transfers or how many annoying vinnyls you can come up with... these aren't what GT is about and if you can't see that - that's distortion[/i] for you.
I think it's kind of arrogant to say:
"HEY POLYPHONY DIGITAL, LOOK AT ME! Even though I've only got 3 sequels and your glorified demo out sold my most recent one, I think you could really take a lesson from me!" :
There's a lot that could be said when you look at how simple Gran Turismo really is: no famed vynnil editor, no engine transfers, for the longest time no cockpit views, for much of its life its had bad engine sounds, no customizable bodykits, no underglow, no big flashy rims, no rap music...
but yet here it is.... 13 years later, still number one series.
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It's not quite like that. Recall that GT was the first on the scene, and that's pretty powerful. Even a bad brand can ride a wave of popularity spawned from its introduction for a long time.
Forza had the challenge of making its own place against what was essentially an monopoly, and it did. Forza not only has a lot of things GT is missing, it has a lot of things that GT fans want.
It's more a case of "Look how much I've grown by filling in all the gaps you left for the competition".
There's a lot that could be said when you look at how simple Gran Turismo really is: no famed vynnil editor, no engine transfers, for the longest time no cockpit views, for much of its life its had bad engine sounds, no customizable bodykits, no underglow, no big flashy rims, no rap music...
but yet here it is.... 13 years later, still number one series.
Again, momentum. And a good amount of stuff that you listed is being asked for. PD can not implement any of it and keep riding the momentum, but it won't last forever.
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- kudos00
They're not even in the same category anymore (or ever were). They're different types of games. They're unique in their own right. Greenawalt isn't even looking to make a sim.
There's a lot that could be said when you look at how simple Gran Turismo really is: no famed vynnil editor, no engine transfers, for the longest time no cockpit views, for much of its life its had bad engine sounds, no customizable bodykits, no underglow, no big flashy rims, no rap music...
but yet here it is.... 13 years later, still number one series.
TADAAAAH. 👍
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