Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship 2012

[hornet_burnout]

Again… he may be a more blatant or un-accidentally looking punter, but it's going on all the time.

A punt is how Jackson got the lead on R1. "Accidentally" of course. Newsham punted past as well. Plato on R2 side by side with Collard, gave him no room tried to push him onto the grass and both spun.

What he did on that last corner on R3 was not accidental. But what if it was? Or was at least "accidental looking"? What If he had swerved a bit, or made a puff of smoke as to apparently lock up? Would he be excused? And is that ok? Or would he still be punished cause it's bad Plato? And is that ok as well?

If you want to penalize drivers, do it for all for (intentionally or not) "causing a collision". As Famine said, get some sort of a system, and a "scale" to mesure the severity and punish accordingly after carefully reviewing it.

Look at it this way, on R1 Plato was going into the lead and got punted to end up 4th. Not penalizing the punter there, on his mind, clearly gives him a free pass to punt past as well.

Still, some great racing, again. 5 winners in 6 races and fantastic racing all way through. Definitely still better to watch this than WTCC! 👍

 

[Ardius]

Rob Austin is pretty brave to run the Audi as RWD, but i don't think it's the way forward for NGTC. I'm pretty sure FWD will prove to be the better layout.

Eh, I think the Audi is more competitive than it currently looks seeing as he's had quite a bit of engine trouble lately (I think he's switched engine supplier twice already - once last year and once again before this year?).
Also the Audi (along with the Toyota, Proton and Insignia) is being run on a low budget. Its only natural that the "way to go" is going to inevitably be the teams with the biggest budgets and superior skills on hand.

There is no doubt already that the Civic and MG6 are the class of the field. But I'm not so sure even 70% of that success is really down to being FWD.

I think there is still a place for RWD and I sincerely hope the Audi or another car continues to run with it. If anything just because it mixes up the field a bit with its different charateristics.

I would have thought the past 10 years has shown that RWD is perfectly fine when done right with the BMW - its still competitive and only had a period of uncompetitiveness when they started restricting the 1st gear ratios so they didn't get good starts.

Certainly I can agree that FWD is always going to be the dominant layout just because its benefits are greater with the shorter race distances. RWD tends to be better in longer races or with higher tyre wear.

 

[Chqr]

Plato should be suspended but the BTCC want strong TV ratings of the cinderella story of MG winning the championship.

EDIT: Anyone else annoyed at how often the commentators bring out the excuse that MG had their car delivered in January.

 

[Ardius]

How is it an excuse? It is still pretty shocking that 888 managed build a car and have it win a race straight out of the box with no testing.
Not even Brawn was that impressive.

If anything it makes you wonder what on earth the car is capable of when its been developed by the end of the season!

 

[Strawman Andy]

Its not that amazing tbh. Its Plato he's a good driver and 888 are the best team - there was no doubt they would be quick

Also Plato has too much bhp, no wonder he's not moaning about other cars now

 

[Ardius]

Yes I agree that Plato and 888 are one of the ultimate combos and hence it wasn't surprising they came out and won...but it is most certainly amazing.

Is it really so hard to remember what everyone was saying before the start of the season? No one quite expected the MG to do that well.

Its a shame it seems that Plato is the one we're talking about. As I suspect perhaps people would be a little more appreciative of the mega job 888 have done if the driver was say Colin Turkington, Fabrizio Giovanardi or Paul O'Neill.

 

[Ryk]

Only caught some of the races -

Plato just can't help himself. Reminds me a bit of Schumacher or Senna at times - Fast obvious talent - but just doesn't grasp racing fairly.

His turn into the BMW (Collard) was just terrible - He isn't new to the cars or the track but he chose to force the Beemer off the road - and thankfully he paid for this.

Race three his charge showed his talent (Or his power advantage?) but his move on Flash was reprehensible -
The after race interviews - you have to weigh up the bubbling after race energy and the blinkered opinion of a racer... Definatly not a credible witness in a murder trial.

2 second penalty seems lean.

Quite like the sausage curbs on the chicane apex. (Foggy's Esse's)

 

[Strawman Andy]

Ryk summed it up 100% right 👍

Ardius - I think of Paul was in it, instead of neate, you'd see 2 Mg6 at the front. Plato needs to calm down, hes thinking like the car might not be great next weekend but it will be - just frustrating when he kinda ruins the race with one silly bump

 

[Famine]

How is it an excuse? It is still pretty shocking that 888 managed build a car and have it win a race straight out of the box with no testing.
Not even Brawn was that impressive.

Brawn had to spend money on brakes.

 

[Submerged]

I'll just leave this here:

Watching this clip, it becomes immediately apparent that Plato was going to do something pretty unsavory, racing-wise. I mean, no driver who respects the racing rule would actually stick behind the rival's bumper all the way down the straight as tightly as Plato did at that time before the corner. If he was going for a clean overtake he would have moved out of the slipstream a fair bit earlier, at least half-way down the straight.

He literally telegraphed what he was going to do at that point.

 

[basherblake]

888 and Team Dynamics always seem to be 'quick-out-the-box', evidently no substitute for experience. Add that to experienced drivers who could pull out a stonking lap blindfolded eg. Neal, Plato et al and you have a winning package. As for Rob Austin, he doesn't even have a main sponsor yet, so I can only guess it's his own cash ticking things over for the moment.

 

[Roo]

A friend of mine had a couple of tickets spare, so I'm off to the Thruxton BTCC meeting next weekend

 

[ASH32]

A friend of mine had a couple of tickets spare, so I'm off to the Thruxton BTCC meeting next weekend

Nice, have fun. Actually going to a race is one of the many things I want to do, I'll get round to it eventually I'm sure.

 

[tomhart9]

Does anyone know where I can watch the support races online? Even if it's just highlights. I enjoyed watching the support races at Brands Hatch but unfortunately I missed Donington.

 

[Ardius]

This guy posts what looks like all of it on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/cje87/videos

 

[tomhart9]

Ahhhhh! Perfect! Cheers mate.

 

[MagpieRacer]

EDIT: Anyone else annoyed at how often the commentators bring out the excuse that MG had their car delivered in January.

The car is barely finished, so many parts missing at Brands. Not sure about Donington but its a might fine achievement.

 

[Only_in_f1]

The car is barely finished, so many parts missing at Brands. Not sure about Donington but its a might fine achievement.

Andy Neate's wasn't even built by Media Day!

In driver news, I think we'll see Thorne and Austin take a more back seat role in the near future, providing they can find the driver with a suitable budget. Both are after Paul O'Neill.

 

[Ardius]

Well Austin has been trying to run a second car but then again now with the recent engine troubles you've got to wonder how long he can keep funding himself?
Do we know what the deal is with Rob? As I understand it, he's always been trying to find other drivers for his cars and has only stepped into the seat because he can't get the drivers. But what does that mean for the budget of the team? If he already has the budget to run himself, I don't understand why he can't run a car without needing a driver to come in with money.

 

[Only_in_f1]

Rob has developed the Audi and basically waiting for either Audi to come and help or a driver with a budget to come keep the team funded. It's no secret hes struggling. If two drivers came to him tomorrow with a sizable budget he'd take it. He does everything for that team - he even drives the truck!

He was let down by the guy, I forget his name, at the start and Swannick couldn't find the budget, which I believe is 150k-200k for the season. He's been trying to get Turks back, but again his budget still isn't up to scratch. He doesn't take a wage from the team so while hes taken the time to develop the cars he believes he might as well drive them!

The problem with running a second car is insurance and possible parts, neither of them come cheap. If this 'non-pay' driver writes off the car he'd be under no liability to pay for the damage and if that happened it could end Rob's season.

 

[Ardius]

I meant why not run just the one car with another driver with whatever money they have but you are right about the insurance etc.
Mark Hazell is the driver who dropped out of driving for him this year, and last year David Pinkney was meant to drive the second car but pulled out before the season started (partly because he was unconvinced at the competiveness of the car).

Its all a crying shame really because there is glimpses of genuine pace from the Audi but its clearly struggling with the 3 different engines its had and a lack of money and development spent on it. But what Rob Austin has managed so far is very impressive especially when you compare it to teams and drivers in a similar situation (Welch, Dynojet, Speedworks).
If Audi or a major sponsor came onboard and spent the money to develop the car I have no doubt it would be podium material if not a race winner.

 

[Only_in_f1]

Poor John is struggling -

http://www.btcccrazy.co.uk/2012/04/23/thorney-motorsport-withdraw-from-thruxton/

 

[Strawman Andy]

Seeing as no one knows. Paul O'neill was testing at Thruxton today in Hughes car - and was a media day. Im guessing with the photos on FB of Paul and Speedworks, that he might be driving this weekend in place for Tony

But I'd thought I'd update on that 👍 Would be great to see Paul back and what he could do in a NGTC

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...99.172358.1355651757.660786968&type=1&theater

 

[Ardius]

Could also be nothing more than Paul helping test and develop the car as James Thompson did earlier this year. They might not have the budget to run him, but they probably have the budget to pay for a test and get some valuable feedback.

I'd be surprised if Tony drops out of driving duties considering he pays for so much. Its basically him living the BTCC dream as so many have done before, so its hard to imagine him taking a step away for someone else to drive his car.

 

[Strawman Andy]

Could also be nothing more than Paul helping test and develop the car as James Thompson did earlier this year. They might not have the budget to run him, but they probably have the budget to pay for a test and get some valuable feedback.

I thought that - but why would Paul and Speedwork not reply to the messages being said about him driving the car? James said before he did the test he would help the team, Paul has said nothing -and still not said anything afterwards.

He might of just tested for them, but why not just say it was testing? I think its more than that. We know Paul is a super quick driver - so maybe Speedworks have thought to bring Paul in and help get the results. He'll probably drive for free - like normal - but it would help the team and Paul


I hope so anyway 👍

 

[Only_in_f1]

Seeing as no one knows. Paul O'neill was testing at Thruxton today in Hughes car - and was a media day. Im guessing with the photos on FB of Paul and Speedworks, that he might be driving this weekend in place for Tony

But I'd thought I'd update on that 👍 Would be great to see Paul back and what he could do in a NGTC

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...99.172358.1355651757.660786968&type=1&theater

I thought that - but why would Paul and Speedwork not reply to the messages being said about him driving the car? James said before he did the test he would help the team, Paul has said nothing -and still not said anything afterwards.

He might of just tested for them, but why not just say it was testing? I think its more than that. We know Paul is a super quick driver - so maybe Speedworks have thought to bring Paul in and help get the results. He'll probably drive for free - like normal - but it would help the team and Paul


I hope so anyway 👍

Thorne is also after O'Neill to test the Insignia.

 

[Furinkazen]

James Thompson tested for Motorbase Ford lasts season IIRC..

 

[Strawman Andy]

I see no reason why Paul couldn't be racing with speedworks - they need points and Tony is slow tbf, so Paul would gladly join to be back in the BTCC

 

[Only_in_f1]

All about the budget though. If you remember, Hughes pulled out of a few rounds last season sighting 'teething issues' much like Thorne has this. I see no reason why Speedworks would replace their main sponsor with a driver with a smaller budget.

It's just them using his expertise. Nothing more.

 

[Ardius]

James Thompson tested for Motorbase Ford lasts season IIRC..

Shortly before racing for them too. Thompson has tested for a lot of teams the past few years, its quite popular these days for teams to hire in experienced drivers for tests as they still get the benefit of their experience to help develop the car but without having to pay for race meetings and any contact.

Basically its the opposite of F1 these days where new teams are gaining experience from drivers instead of new drivers gaining experience from teams.

I see no reason why Paul couldn't be racing with speedworks - they need points and Tony is slow tbf, so Paul would gladly join to be back in the BTCC

But Tony is the entire reason Speedworks exist as a team - he is there to drive as its his money funding the operation, just like John George or David Pinkney. Its not a question of being fast, they are driving the cars because thats why they entered the BTCC!
I have no problem with Tony driving as its one extra car on the grid that wouldn't otherwise be there and now he's also helping Adam Morgan have a seat too.

I'm not sure I'd be happy to see Paul in the Toyota as it doesn't appear to be very competitive this year but it would be good to see him on the grid in any shape or form.