Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship 2012

[cally-dave]

I'm not putting a downer on Rob Austin, he's one of my favourite drivers, but his cars setup makes me feel uncomfortable, seeing the amount of roll his car has makes me cringe lol.

 

[Furinkazen]

Must think the Audi's 4WD...

 

[Ardius]

I'm not putting a downer on Rob Austin, he's one of my favourite drivers, but his cars setup makes me feel uncomfortable, seeing the amount of roll his car has makes me cringe lol.

Almost all of the NGTC cars look like that though, apparently due to the poor job GPRM did designing the chassis.
Jackson's NGTC Focus has had a lot of roll going on too. The Civic's don't seem too bad but then again the top teams will spend a lot more time developing the cars and fixing all the problems caused by GPRM's poor work.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Blimey, Austin's new Audi looks more like a NASCAR. Quite an eye-catching livery.

it is

and as above underneth the ngtc cars there are design flaws hence all the rolling.

 

[cally-dave]

Dunlop has announced the winners of its annual ‘Spirit of the Championship’ awards for 2012.

The awards, an allocation of Dunlop's Sport Maxx BTCC racetyres, will be presented to the following at this weekend’s season finale at Brands Hatch.

Liam Griffin (eight tyres): for his selfless act (after his own car was ravaged by fire at Croft) in sacrificing his own drive for three championship meetings so his Redstone Racing team could concentrate on building and entering a brand new NGTC-spec car.

Pirtek Racing (six tyres): for the team’s sterling effort in ensuring Jeff Smith had a car to race at Silverstone after his high-speed clash with the Rockingham and also for general presentation.

Rob Austin Racing (four tyres): For offering to help when a rival team’s awning was destroyed by the weather at Silverstone.

Dynojet (four tyres): For general presentation and for never complaining:

 

[homeforsummer]

it is

Okay, that was either my subconscious telling me then, having maybe seen it on the internet somewhere, or I'm psychic.

 

[Ardius]

I don't know how reliable this is, as it does come from Jason Plato, but anyway here's the supposed boost adjustments for Brands Hatch (Plato put the adjustments relative to base setup for both Silverstone and Brands, so I've just put them together to get the adjustment race-to-race).

Boost change from Silverstone to Brands Hatch:
Honda Civic NGTC +0.050
Toyota Avensis NGTC TOCA +0.025
Vauxhall Insignia NGTC TOCA +0.025
BMW S2000 T +0.025
Ford Focus S2000 T 0.000
VW Golf S2000 T 0.000
Audi A4 NGTC -0.025
Proton NGTC TOCA -0.025
Toyota Avensis NGTC -0.025
Ford Focus NGTC -0.025
Honda Civic S2000 T -0.025
Vauxhall Vectra S2000 T TOCA -0.025
MG 6 NGTC TOCA -0.050

Brands Hatch boost levels relative to "baseline":
VW Golf S2000 T 0.125
Vauxhall Insignia NGTC TOCA 0.125
Audi A4 NGTC 0.100
Toyota Avensis NGTC TOCA 0.100
Ford Focus S2000 T 0.100
Honda Civic S2000 T 0.100
Vauxhall Vectra S2000 T TOCA 0.100
Proton NGTC TOCA 0.075
Toyota Avensis NGTC 0.075
BMW S2000 T 0.075
Honda Civic NGTC 0.050
Ford Focus NGTC 0.050
MG 6 NGTC TOCA 0.000


So basically, the biggest boost drop is for the MG, biggest boost gain is for the NGTC Civic. The biggest boost increase relative to setup is the Golf and the Insignia.
The latter figures are interesting as they pretty much follow each car's relative corner-performance as well as driver talent in some cases. So the top teams and cars end up with less increase in boost as obviously they are the pace setters. Whereas the teams at the back end up with high levels of boost as they are frequently off the pace.
Also the difference in boost level race-to-race changes a lot more between the front-runners, as we see with the NGTC Civic gaining 0.050 and the MG6 losing 0.050.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

wow I hope it's gonna even the cars a bit more and not give Honda a super human advantage since they are already so fast in cornering.

Shedden probably gonna win the championship with these change, Plato probably gonna be the biggest looser. Damn it I wanted him to win, glad it's brands hatch we never know what can happen there.

If I remember from the first week-end, the civics and the Mg were pretty even on brands hatch, so with an additional 0.050 boost, the Civics probably gonna own the competition.

Jason probably gonna love to have full balast and minus 0.100 boost on the civics lol. First race gonna be tough I see incident already.

 

[paulmac2k9]

Laughable that the MG lost more boost than the Focus...

 

[Ardius]

Please bear in mind that information comes from Plato himself...take from that what you will. The Civic's have never had the best straight-line speed all year, so I hardly think this boost change is going to make a huge difference.

The MG is clearly a well sorted car. Plato has a great record at Brands, Neal and Shedden don't really.

Personally I'd say Plato is still favourite to take the title. Even with the points lead, Shedden has it all to do to beat him.

 

[paulmac2k9]

I still would have thought the sheer speed advantage that the Focus had would have warrented a bigger boost reduction than the MG. Just my thoughts is all. Also quite funny the BMW got more concidering the speed it had in straights too . (But then that car needs much much more boost to win..)

 

[Ardius]

Speed on the straights is affected by corner entry and exit too - especially like on the Silverstone National circuit coming on to the Wellington straight.
So you can achieve a high speed trap figure even though you're running low boost simply because you exit the corners much faster.

So I'm not sure its as straight forward as them having too much boost already.

And again, I also point to the fact this comes from Plato. He's not exactly the most reliable and un-biased person to get this kind of stuff from. Its to his advantage to make this stuff up and have a good moan, telling everyone how he's the victim and all the results come from him.
Not that I doubt Plato's ability, no way, but he knows all too well how to play the mind games.

 

[Akmuq]

Neal and Plato will take points off each other leaving Sheddon to win.

For the record, I'd love it if Sheddon won.

 

[Liquid]

I'd also be more than happy if Shedden pulls it off.

 

[Furinkazen]

I reckon Shedden will take it. Plato will have to be max attack aggression.

 

[Strawman Andy]

MG has the fastest straight line speed, Plato won from 20th in race 3, whereas Matt only won from 17th (3 places higher up) so I think its right, MG's look way to fast in straight lines and their cornering pace is fine

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

MG has the fastest straight line speed, Plato won from 20th in race 3, whereas Matt only won from 17th (3 places higher up) so I think its right, MG's look way to fast in straight lines and their cornering pace is fine

the focus is the fastest in a straight.

 

[paulmac2k9]

Yeah then next fastest was BMW, Toyota, Proton etc then MG and Honda near the bottom . The MG was in no way one of the faster cars in the straights lol...

 

[Strawman Andy]

MG been fast in straight line speed all year - watching race 3 from Silverstone, Jason just powers out of the final corner and takes them into turn 1, so clearly no where bad like the Honda's who were defending all race

Ford was too quick, but MG is equal with BMW - no way is the MG as slow as the Honda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjTPGPbKTSo&feature=relmfu

Watched from 25 minutes - Plato gets passed with slipstream and closes down nick, then passes him. And next lap in the slipstream Nick couldn't get passed Plato, which is the 2nd fastest car (BMW) in the straights and the rwd makes it quicker out of the corners too.

 

[paulmac2k9]

That my dear boy was a little known move called the cut back, where you take the ideal wide line in and pull to the inside thus passing, he was getting a massively better drive out the last bend by doing that..

Note: I said the MG was near the bottom where as the Honda was the bottom.. MG was slower than quite a few cars it was just close enough so he could fight.

 

[Strawman Andy]

That my dear boy was a little known move called the cut back, where you take the ideal wide line in and pull to the inside thus passing, he was getting a massively better drive out the last bend by doing that..

So explain why Nick couldn't get passed or close again on the straights? He had less weight, probably same power and tyre's would be up to temperature

MG has been too quick for too long, last year Plato had a slow car on the straights and moaned, this year no moaning about power because he has a lot and a good handling car too, whereas Honda have cut back's on power. Yet Honda boys get on with it...

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

MG been fast in straight line speed all year - watching race 3 from Silverstone, Jason just powers out of the final corner and takes them into turn 1, so clearly no where bad like the Honda's who were defending all race

Ford was too quick, but MG is equal with BMW - no way is the MG as slow as the Honda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjTPGPbKTSo&feature=relmfu

Watched from 25 minutes - Plato gets passed with slipstream and closes down nick, then passes him. And next lap in the slipstream Nick couldn't get passed Plato, which is the 2nd fastest car (BMW) in the straights and the rwd makes it quicker out of the corners too.

4 Mat JACKSON 137.2
5 Aron SMITH 135.8
18 Nick FOSTER 135.8
43 Lea WOOD 135.6
78 Chris JAMES 135.6
8 Rob COLLARD 135.0
33 Adam MORGAN 135.0
6 Liam GRIFFIN 134.8
99 Jason PLATO 134.8
12 Daniel WELCH 134.5
22 Howard FULLER 134.5
11 Frank WRATHALL 134.2
17 Dave NEWSHAM 134.2
38 Tom ONSLOW-COLE 134.2
28 Chris STOCKTON 133.4
44 Andy NEATE 133.2
13 Rob AUSTIN 132.1
50 Tony HUGHES 131.8
14 Will BRATT 131.6
55 Jeff SMITH 131.3
77 Andrew JORDAN 130.8
1 Matt NEAL 130.3
52 Gordon SHEDDEN 129.6
48 Ollie JACKSON 127.8

 

[Strawman Andy]

4 Mat JACKSON 137.2

99 Jason PLATO 134.8

55 Jeff SMITH 131.3
77 Andrew JORDAN 130.8
1 Matt NEAL 130.3
52 Gordon SHEDDEN 129.6

Huge difference between MG and Honda - let alone Ford and Honda

Don't get me wrong, Ford need's cut down

But I still can't see why TOCA thought Honda didn't need any more power. MG have had all season to get the setups right, but TOCA has hardly cut them down as much as they have to Honda- which I still don't get why because they have a great car, not as good as the Honda in cornering but still better than most but also given a lot more power. Showed at Silverstone that MG was not balanced right - same for Ford, too much Power

 

[Ardius]

The boost levels aren't based on speed traps, but on laptimes.

 

[Strawman Andy]

The boost levels aren't based on speed traps, but on laptimes.

So its an overall view of the whole lap with boost level?

 

[Ardius]

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=2736&month=11&year=2011&form=browse&searchterm=

“Thereafter, during the course of the season, a strict mathematic calculation – based on a rolling average of each model’s qualifying and lap times over a set number of events – will determine if any further changes should be made to their respective boost levels.

As for "set number of events" - as I understand it, currently that is the past 2 events.

So the Civic's boost level is decided by the laptimes they managed at Rockingham and Silverstone. Seeing as the Civic's generally tend set the pace even with low boost, they don't tend to see huge swings of boost increase despite showing poorly in the speed traps.
Whereas cars like the Audi A4 don't always set the pace, so will see larger swings of boost..despite showing quite well in the speedtraps.

The interesting thing is the BMWs...they've pretty much been race-winning pace at nearly everywhere so far. I'm guessing their slightly poorer pace at Rockingham in the wet has helped give them more boost.

 

[Strawman Andy]

http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=2736&month=11&year=2011&form=browse&searchterm=



As for "set number of events" - as I understand it, currently that is the past 2 events.

So the Civic's boost level is decided by the laptimes they managed at Rockingham and Silverstone. Seeing as the Civic's generally tend set the pace even with low boost, they don't tend to see huge swings of boost increase despite showing poorly in the speed traps.
Whereas cars like the Audi A4 don't always set the pace, so will see larger swings of boost..despite showing quite well in the speedtraps.

The interesting thing is the BMWs...they've pretty much been race-winning pace at nearly everywhere so far. I'm guessing their slightly poorer pace at Rockingham in the wet has helped give them more boost.

So the lap times are looked across every car - so, for example, all the Civic times are taken into account and then made into an average lap time of a circuit from all drivers?

Well Andy Neate has hardly been on the pace for the last two rounds - maybe reason MG were so fast, same for Ford only Jackson wasn't as strong at Rockingham compared to the Honda's and MG's

 

[Ardius]

So the lap times are looked across every car - so, for example, all the Civic times are taken into account and then made into an average lap time of a circuit from all drivers?

Well Andy Neate has hardly been on the pace for the last two rounds - maybe reason MG were so fast, same for Ford only Jackson wasn't as strong at Rockingham compared to the Honda's and MG's

Basically yeah, Plato's secret weapon is Andy Neate - so slow he ensures the MG doesn't get screwed on boost. (or doesn't even finish thanks to crashing into everyone).
Whereas Honda have 3 of the best drivers and 1 of the better pay drivers in Jeff Smith, so rarely set poor laptimes.

I mean, it won't work exactly like that. But obviously there's a benefit there to run poor laptimes - but 888 now have no chance in the teams championship thanks to those poor results from Neate.

 

[Strawman Andy]

Basically yeah, Plato's secret weapon is Andy Neate - so slow he ensures the MG doesn't get screwed on boost. (or doesn't even finish thanks to crashing into everyone).
Whereas Honda have 3 of the best drivers and 1 of the better pay drivers in Jeff Smith, so rarely set poor laptimes.

Ah makes sense now. All Neate had to do was drive slowly at Silverstone (which he managed to do well), so the boost isn't too low at Brands and Plato still basically has the advantage on power compared to Honda's so he should be in better shape.

 

[Ardius]

Well I mean, thats not the complete picture as I doubt Neate was holding back any pace. And its not like the MG is getting huge amounts of boost more than the Honda - on the previous page the figures show that the Civic should now be +0.050 more boost than baseline compared to a decrease for the MG back to its baseline.

But I do wonder if Neate was hired by 888 not only for his cash, but also for his poor pace.
If we look at Croft and Snetterton where both MGs fared well, we see that at Knockhill they struggled a bit (well, Plato suffered more from hitting things but anyway). Presumably decreases in boost came into play there.

I don't know, I don't think there's a huge conspiracy here as the changes in boost we're talking about are minimal (between MG and Honda anyway). But certainly I feel there is a flaw in relying on laptimes to set boost levels as clearly the Hondas just get mobbed on the straights.
Although, do we really want to see the Honda's dominate the entire season by blasting on straights and corners?