- 2,046
- Wales
- GTP_Tyrrell
Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship 2012
- Thread starter Furinkazen
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- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
As I just said though, I don't believe thats entirely the case as midway through the season Neate did actually drive somewhat decently, causing the MGs to actually lose pace at Knockhill.
It seems a bit too crazy to try and design the best car on the grid, make it as fast as possible but then somehow try and make it slower by asking a poor driver to drive slower. And if they aren't asked to drive slower, then 888 are taking a bit of a gamble assuming the slow driver will stay slow in a quick car.
I also think that TOCA would probably notice if they were attempting to be slow on purpose.
It just sounds a little too fanciful to me. But I do agree that Neate's poor form is certainly helping in a roundabout way. Personally I think Neate is there because of his money.
Lets be honest here, BTCC is not "pure" racing. It hasn't been for a long time. We already have success ballast and reverse grids. Quite clearly BTCC is about entertainment and close racing.
So of course, success is going to be "penalized" in order to make the racing closer. Also, of course teams are going to try and take advantage of that. I find it hard to believe though that teams would go out of their way to be slow...
I'll also point out that while Jeff Smith is better than Neate, he's not exactly fast either, so its hardly advantage MG - though certainly an average between 2 cars is probably better than an average of 4 cars.
It seems a bit too crazy to try and design the best car on the grid, make it as fast as possible but then somehow try and make it slower by asking a poor driver to drive slower. And if they aren't asked to drive slower, then 888 are taking a bit of a gamble assuming the slow driver will stay slow in a quick car.
I also think that TOCA would probably notice if they were attempting to be slow on purpose.
It just sounds a little too fanciful to me. But I do agree that Neate's poor form is certainly helping in a roundabout way. Personally I think Neate is there because of his money.
Lets be honest here, BTCC is not "pure" racing. It hasn't been for a long time. We already have success ballast and reverse grids. Quite clearly BTCC is about entertainment and close racing.
So of course, success is going to be "penalized" in order to make the racing closer. Also, of course teams are going to try and take advantage of that. I find it hard to believe though that teams would go out of their way to be slow...
I'll also point out that while Jeff Smith is better than Neate, he's not exactly fast either, so its hardly advantage MG - though certainly an average between 2 cars is probably better than an average of 4 cars.
Strawman Andy
(Banned)
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- Strawman__Andy
But it's extra power, so even a little bit can help a lot - gaining an extra bhp can help so I think it's every little help basically.
But it's clearly not right in hiring a slow driver so you can gain extra power - it's cheating. If Honda win this year, in the drivers, then I bet MG will be kicking themselves for not getting two fast drivers to challenge for the title, rather than just one.
Edit: Not saying Neate is driving 5 seconds off, but I don't think he's showing us the pace he has compared to other rounds, so probably giving it 95% so it doesn't look too odd - just makes Plato look like he's driving the wheels off it.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
But MG/888 needed cash...like I keep saying now, Neate is there for money reasons.
I'm pretty sure if they had the money, Ian Harrison would have Plato, Giovanardi and Turkington in the cars right now.
It just seems like a no-brainer to me, the benefit in boost from having a slow driver is almost nothing compared to having two fast drivers consistently taking podiums and victories. Which is reflected in all 3 championships (drivers, teams and manufacturers).
I'm pretty sure if they had the money, Ian Harrison would have Plato, Giovanardi and Turkington in the cars right now.
It just seems like a no-brainer to me, the benefit in boost from having a slow driver is almost nothing compared to having two fast drivers consistently taking podiums and victories. Which is reflected in all 3 championships (drivers, teams and manufacturers).
Strawman Andy
(Banned)
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- Strawman__Andy
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Yeah and a better driver would take more point from Neal/Shedden as well.
Another quick question, is there any site where I can watch the qualification by chance ? Anyone knows ?
Strawman Andy
(Banned)
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- Strawman__Andy
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There's no way 888 would get 650k of sponsorship if they dumped neate which also means they wouldn't have been able to build the second car that he drives.
Strawman Andy
(Banned)
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- Strawman__Andy
He is giving them £650,000 per year? Doesn't a BTCC NGTC only cost £50,000 to £100,000 to build? Then probably £15,000 to enter and run the car all year. He's giving a lot away
- 9,089
- Scotland
Ngtc car build just now is in the region of 200-250k + entry fees, tyres, team wages etc if adds up.
Remember there's only 3 paid drivers in the btcc all the rest pay for the drives.
Who's the third?
- 7,284
- Inverness, Scotland
- GTP_PaulMac/paulmac2k9
Plato, Neal and Shedden I was thinking 
. The only possible other paid driver could be Mat Jackson.
. The only possible other paid driver could be Mat Jackson.
- 17,258
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I thought NGTC was supposed to be cheaper than S2000!? A new BMW 320Si built by BMW motorsport was only 250,000 when they were available!
- 9,089
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Plato, Neal and sheddon are paid, jackson's family own aload of ford garages which is how that's paid for.
It's because ngtc has just started everything's still getting developed hence high costs. The insignia along was about 200k if your think 100k is a budget that would just get you on the clios.
It's because ngtc has just started everything's still getting developed hence high costs. The insignia along was about 200k if your think 100k is a budget that would just get you on the clios.
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Well, the question for me is, do I make the effort to go to Brands this weekend... I've not been to a single touring car race this year, of any variety! This hasn't happened in YEARS... which it rubbish, depressing and annoying....
But then, the weather will probably be foul, It's not a great venue for amateur photography, It'll end up costing a hundred quid, which I can't really afford right now, and I'd quite like to watch the DTM final on Sunday to see if Bruno can get the job done for BMW.
Decisions decisions!
But then, the weather will probably be foul, It's not a great venue for amateur photography, It'll end up costing a hundred quid, which I can't really afford right now, and I'd quite like to watch the DTM final on Sunday to see if Bruno can get the job done for BMW.
Decisions decisions!
- 10,373
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- Ardius_
Erm, does it really need to be pointed out that NGTC is meant to be cheaper to run..not build and develop.
Right now its cheaper to buy an S2000 fully developed...but its running costs are higher because they require more bespoke parts.
The whole idea of NGTC is to share common components, not only to make it cheaper to run and maintain, but also cheaper to compete with the top teams as they don't have an advantage in superior parts, etc (though that of course still happens one way or another).
A new formula is always going to be more expensive in the short term because new cars need to be built and the development time and costs need to be spent to get the cars competitive.
This was also why S2000 is being phased out gradually, because the transition period always requires money and the smaller teams need to be able to compete still running S2000s until they can buy an NGTC developed for them.
Greatest example of this in motion is quite clearly with Tony Gilham - ok he has managed to find a great budget lately but he's spent his money first on S2000 and now he's buying a half-developed Insignia.
The only problem with this whole concept, as Holdenhsvgtsr alluded to, is that GPRM have done a poor job so some of the spec parts are not good enough. So actually teams are having to spend money fixing all the problems!
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- 44,185
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- Furinkazen_54
Dumb question... who are GPRM?
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
GPRM
They're a motorsport preparation company and they're the ones who built and developed the NGTC formula. All of the NGTC chassis are built initially by them and then sent to the teams - the team then fit all the components (car body shell, engine, suspension, etc etc).
The references to their "poor job" is referring to their chassis design and build quality, which is apparently very poor. I've read quite a bit from Thorney's news articles and from "fabricator" (ex-888 staff) from the BTCC.net forums on it.
They're a motorsport preparation company and they're the ones who built and developed the NGTC formula. All of the NGTC chassis are built initially by them and then sent to the teams - the team then fit all the components (car body shell, engine, suspension, etc etc).
The references to their "poor job" is referring to their chassis design and build quality, which is apparently very poor. I've read quite a bit from Thorney's news articles and from "fabricator" (ex-888 staff) from the BTCC.net forums on it.
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Strawman Andy
(Banned)
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- Strawman__Andy
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Awesome laps from Onslow-Cole, Jordan, Morgan and Williamson!
We seem to be getting quite a few surprise rookie driver displays this year - Aron Smith, Ollie Jackson, Adam Morgan, Will Bratt, Will Fuller and now Aaron Williamson have all shined at one point or another.
Hopefully they can all secure budgets for next year.
With Liam Griffin, Chris James and Andy Neate next to each other on the grid, what are the odds on a lap 1 collision?
We seem to be getting quite a few surprise rookie driver displays this year - Aron Smith, Ollie Jackson, Adam Morgan, Will Bratt, Will Fuller and now Aaron Williamson have all shined at one point or another.
Hopefully they can all secure budgets for next year.
With Liam Griffin, Chris James and Andy Neate next to each other on the grid, what are the odds on a lap 1 collision?
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- 7,284
- Inverness, Scotland
- GTP_PaulMac/paulmac2k9
Shedden has 45kgs, Plato 36kgs and Neal 27kgs.
- 3,664
- Bristol
- priesty_lfc
Looking forward to today's races, disappointed Jacksons not in the mix but hoping Plato can do it.
Hate the Honda's!!
Hate the Honda's!!
- 1,000
- Donegal, IRL
- GTP_DaveB
Lol, I hate the Honda's too mate, but hoping Sheddon will clinch it.
Next year it will be Mat Jackson or Andy Jordan :-p
Next year it will be Mat Jackson or Andy Jordan :-p
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