E3 2010 Discussion Thread

So far this E3 has been good. Glad to see a date on GT5. I hope they stick with it. AC: Brotherhood and Metal Gear Rising look great. Move and Kinetic are okay nothing I'm really excited about.
 
I only care about GT5 (OBVIOUSLY) and Metal Gear Solid Rising (my second favourite game)!

You guys probably have seen this but...

Great CUT preview;)!


[YOUTUBEHD]iER5uKJ5mlw[/YOUTUBEHD]
 
No GTAV, No Last Guardian, no major info on Motorstorm Apocalypse...some missing big name titles from the lot. maybe we'll see more info in the next few days.
 
I dont know how Motorstorm got no love. The trailer looks exciting to see a broken city instead of Mediterranean and Deserts..

I think MS and Sony have not even shown most of what they wanted thanks to the motion control stuff....
 
Sony and Microsoft are going where the money is, where Nintendo has been for the past couple of years, and that's that. The "hardcore developers" are still going to do what they do best - Deliver AAA titles that keep the fans happy, and maybe add a few sprinklings of Move and Kinect control for a few "ooohhh, aaaahhhh" moments.


I managed to miss most of today's conference, but the spotty updates I had on my phone (Via Twitter) seemed to confirm what I had expected:

  • The 3DS is friggin' sweet. Metal Gear, Pilot Wings, and other totally rad redux titles have me at full attention. Congrats, Nintendo. You're getting me to buy a Game Cube, again.
  • Metroid: Other M and Goldeneye have me excited about the Wii again, and that's pretty cool. But, I doubt I'll buy one just for it.
  • The PS3 on the other hand... Twisted Metal and a solid (?) date for GT5 have me looking into how I can make this happen. All of that, and the Valve nonsense. Although, I had to giggle at Playstation Premium.

I'm looking to hear more about games and less about hardware in the coming days. The good news is that some of this stuff will probably on display when I head down to SDCC'10, and I can attempt to give some kind of review of the junk if I see it.
 
YSSMAN
Sony and Microsoft are going where the money is, where Nintendo has been for the past couple of years, and that's that. The "hardcore developers" are still going to do what they do best - Deliver AAA titles that keep the fans happy, and maybe add a few sprinklings of Move and Kinect control for a few "ooohhh, aaaahhhh" moments.


I managed to miss most of today's conference, but the spotty updates I had on my phone (Via Twitter) seemed to confirm what I had expected:

  • The 3DS is friggin' sweet. Metal Gear, Pilot Wings, and other totally rad redux titles have me at full attention. Congrats, Nintendo. You're getting me to buy a Game Cube, again.
  • Metroid: Other M and Goldeneye have me excited about the Wii again, and that's pretty cool. But, I doubt I'll buy one just for it.
  • The PS3 on the other hand... Twisted Metal and a solid (?) date for GT5 have me looking into how I can make this happen. All of that, and the Valve nonsense. Although, I had to giggle at Playstation Premium.

I'm looking to hear more about games and less about hardware in the coming days. The good news is that some of this stuff will probably on display when I head down to SDCC'10, and I can attempt to give some kind of review of the junk if I see it.
Click to expand...

Might I remind you, that Despite Nintendo "selling more than their competition" (which, by the way, they count the Wii Fit Balance Board in their hardware sales...yeah, it's called cheating), both Nintendo and Microsoft lost money last fiscal period while Sony has actually been MAKING money off their system. See, when companies make a system, they tend to sell it for cheaper than it costs to make. This is why the PS3 was $600 when if first came out. Microsoft, I don't think has EVER been in the black. Nintendo hasn't been for a while. (they're still mopping up the mess made by Gamecube.) But Sony is, now, making money off their system. This is why their selling bundles. I wouldn't be surprised to see a massive price drop soon. (which, btw, every time the PS3 has dropped it's price, it's been a BIG OLD $100 price drop. Started at $600, went down to $500, then to $400 and now it's at $300.)
 
Nin had a great show..... ..but I can't bring myself to own the system(again). I dont have little girls and grandmas to entertain. Plus all these game they showed are filled with "Cute". They aren't the games gamers want, they are the games Nintendo loyalists want. As dull as the Halo Reach demonstration was I'd still choose that over all the Nintendo games shown and I am no Halo fan. I dropped Nin when i dropped out of my teens... but they had a great show, their fans have something to (480p) look forward to(480p).

Goldeneye looked so bad I thought it was for the DS.. it was good in 1996. 4 player split in 480p, nice way to punish the loyalists in this era of Hi-Def..

SuperShouden
Microsoft, I don't think has EVER been in the black.
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Yes they were, they kept prices low to sell systems and they are the only company ever in the history of gaming to give systems away just to get them out there... remember the spike in Mountain due sales in 05 :).
 
SuperShouden
both Nintendo and Microsoft lost money last fiscal period while Sony has actually been MAKING money off their system.
Click to expand...

Hmmm? Care to share some of these figures? I'm confused if you're talking about quarterly performance or the overall financial state of each, looking at either will paint a very different picture for the three companies. Thing is, with the way the economy has been, telling me that "X lost money" doesn't come as a surprise.

Nevertheless, Sony and Microsoft saw how quickly the Wii disappeared and how much money they are making on a gimmicky console (not to belittle the Wii, I like it waaay more than I thought I would back in 2008), and they wish to repeat it. The Move will likely be a bit more "hardcore" than the Wii Motion Plus and Kinect, while the Kinect will probably straddle the line between both nicely. I'm personally more excited about the Kinect and the possibilities that it will offer (voice control, motion control of menus alone make it worth it to me). I can't be mad about it, I just have to keep in mind that I'm not the target audiences for these devices. Simply put, if you don't like them, don't buy them.
 
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SuperShouden
No GTAV, No Last Guardian, no major info on Motorstorm Apocalypse...some missing big name titles from the lot. maybe we'll see more info in the next few days.
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Yeah, Rockstar games pulled out & aren't announcing anything, so fans are really wondering how the next GTA or even LA Noir is coming along.
 
I do have to admit, if I were to get ANY of the motion controllers, it'd be the Move. I've seen MUCH closer to 1:1 movement than even the Wii. and the games shown in support of it are a bit cooler (Like LBP2). So...that's my opinion.
 
SuperShouden
I do have to admit, if I were to get ANY of the motion controllers, it'd be the Move. I've seen MUCH closer to 1:1 movement than even the Wii. and the games shown in support of it are a bit cooler (Like LBP2). So...that's my opinion.
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Really?

Did you see the Sorcery demo?

Wait, of course you did...we were talking about it earlier. In any case...the response time seemed off and was more like 1:1 1/2, or 1:2. :ill:
 
YSSMAN
I'm personally more excited about the Kinect and the possibilities that it will offer (voice control, motion control of menus alone make it worth it to me). I
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You do realize that the PS Eye has been doing this for years, right?

Operation Creature Feature, Trials of Topoq, and other PS Eye only games have menu navigation that is all motion controlled. Put your hand over the option on screen and then move it. It even has the little circular meter that shows you are selecting that option that was shown in all the Kinect demos. Since it already has a multi-directional 4 microphone array built in they could easily add voice control. SingStar already has voice control, which means Sony has the technology, they just have to apply it to other things.
 
LaBounti
F12010 looks good, any news on frame rate? I was shocked to see F1 on national US TV Sunday...
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they have to broadcast 2 races a year on broadcast TV, it is part of the deal Fox/Speed has.

The game looks amazing, I'm still in awe we actually saw an E3 demo where someone managed to stay on the track(well, except for 1 corner).
 
FoolKiller
You do realize that the PS Eye has been doing this for years, right?

Operation Creature Feature, Trials of Topoq, and other PS Eye only games have menu navigation that is all motion controlled. Put your hand over the option on screen and then move it. It even has the little circular meter that shows you are selecting that option that was shown in all the Kinect demos. Since it already has a multi-directional 4 microphone array built in they could easily add voice control. SingStar already has voice control, which means Sony has the technology, they just have to apply it to other things.
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Not just the PS Eye but its predecessor as well, the Eye Toy... you (the one who was talking about the kinect) should look up some PS2 Eye Toy videos. SONY was already brewing this technology in PS2 times.

Perhaps in a more crude way (this was years ago), but the Eye Toy already had motion detection and a built in microphone for compatible games.
 
List updated with trailers for Motorstorm: Apocalypse, Infamous 2 and GT5.

I don't know why everyone is saying that the age of Exclusive titles is over. This E3 showed a plethora of Exclusive titles for the PS3 (6 on the list) and Wii (8 shown at E3) and even Xbox showed of the 3 Big exclusive titles it has...maybe it's the Xbox fanboys that believe the big companies aren't doing exclusive titles anymore.
 
SuperShouden
List updated with trailers for Motorstorm: Apocalypse, Infamous 2 and GT5.

I don't know why everyone is saying that the age of Exclusive titles is over. This E3 showed a plethora of Exclusive titles for the PS3 (6 on the list) and Wii (8 shown at E3) and even Xbox showed of the 3 Big exclusive titles it has...maybe it's the Xbox fanboys that believe the big companies aren't doing exclusive titles anymore.
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1st party titles don't really count as obviously Sony isn't going to make a 360 game and Microsoft isn't going to make a PS3 game.

Even if you include 3rd party exclusives they are mostly timed exclusives which aren't really the same thing.
 
Team Ico and Evolution Studios aren't first party developers. Neither are the guys behind Infamous...and what about Naughty Dog's Uncharted series? They're not first party, either.
 
SuperShouden
Team Ico and Evolution Studios aren't first party developers. Neither are the guys behind Infamous...and what about Naughty Dog's Uncharted series? They're not first party, either.
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I'm really trying to resist the urge to post an "Epic Facepalm" pic right now.

Naughty Dog(acquired 2001) and Evolution Studios(acquired in 2007) are owned by Sony, and Infamous(Sucker Punch)and The Last Guardian(Team ICO) are both the property of Sony(they are/do publish both games) making them 1st party exclusives that they simply hire a 3rd party publisher to make.
 
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Does anyone know where I can watch the entire MTV Xbox 360 Cirque Du Soleil event were they annouced Kinect? It was on the day before the MS press conference.

Apparently it was hilariously random and trippy and I want to see what it was like.

Robin.
 
Kotaku's Stephen Totilo may have found a possible issue with Kinect.

http://kotaku.com/5565777/xbox-kinect-does-not-play-well-with-couch-potatoes

Near the beginning of my trip out here in Los Angeles for E3, I heard the oddest of rumors: Microsoft's controller-free sensor array, Kinect, would only work if you were standing up. No way, right?

For the last several days I've been peppering the conversations I've had with game creators at this massive video game showcase with the "sitting question." Can Kinect really not work when you're sitting? Is that the reason why every Kinect developer makes me stand to play their game? Is the future of voice-controlled, gesture-triggered television viewing a future of watching TV while standing up?

Officially, Microsoft says that the sitting question is unfounded. In a mock Q&A that had appeared on the company's press site but has since been removed, they field this question themselves:

Q: Are there any games or experiences I can do while sitting on the couch?
A: Absolutely. The games and experiences are designed to be as fun to watch as they are to play-they're designed to get you off the couch. And when you want to enjoy movies, music, and ESPN on Xbox 360, you can control your entertainment hands free from the comfort of your couch.

Couch potatoes have nothing to worry about, then, right? They shouldn't fear a future that would have them enjoying ESPN and Froza Motorsport on their own two feet?

No. There is some cause for concern.

One developer with whom I spoke and who is familiar with how Microsoft is briefing studios making games for Kinect said the company has specifically advised developers to not make games that would involve the player's sitting down.

None of the games shown for Kinect at a showcase early in the week were set up for sitting. Kinectimals, a cute take on Nintendogs-style games, but with tiger cubs, was presented as a player-stand-here demo. That's logical, because the game involves walking up to the animal and then jumping or running or doing some other action you want the animal to replicate. The game's lead creator, Frontier Design's David Braben shrugged when I asked him if the game could be played sitting down. He guessed some of it might work, but it didn't sound like he'd tried, possibly because it was irrelevant to his game design.

You might have expected a seated Kinect experience from the Forza Motorsport team. Those folks are making Kinect driving games and tech demos. They've got a fun highway driving challenge that involves standing in front of the Kinect and steering by holding your hands in front of your body as if you were turning a real steering wheel. The perspective for this game experiment is inside the car, through the eyes of a driver. Rolling your shoulders in front of Kinect turns the game's camera view slightly, letting you look around inside the car. Your lower body is not used — no foot-forward-to-accelerate as was seen in a similar demonstration last year with racing game Burnout. Nevertheless, you have to play this one standing up if you are playing it at E3.

I asked one of the two members of Forza development studio Turn 10 if I could play their demo sitting down. They said I could not, that it was "optimized for standing."

The thought that prompted me to start asking the "sitting question" to so many Kinect-connected game developers and executives at E3 was that the Kinect's sensor can't clearly read a human skeleton if a person is seated. Some developers with whom I was theorizing about this guessed that the Kinect would become confused by the bent knees of a seated gamer — that it would need a player to always return to a resting position that has all their joints on one flat plane, which is the case when you are standing, not when you are sitting. No Kinect developer could or would get that specific with me, so I'm left to guess.

The second Forza demonstration involves walking up to a virtual car and peering at it from various angles. You control this by standing in front of the Kinect and then turning your body, kneeling or side-stepping to push the camera view around the car or to lower it for close inspection. You can open the driver's door of a virtual Ferrari and sit in the driver's seat. But, even in this Forza demo, when you sit in the driver's seat, you are standing in real life. That's the kind of thing that makes you wonder.

Throughout this week I have watched or tried fitness games, dancing games and several games reminiscent of Wii Sports. All are played standing up, and all have good game design reasons to be played that way. So maybe there is no tech limitation to Kinect regarding your couch? Maybe these games are all stand-up just because that's what is best?
"Sitting is something we're still calibrating for."

I'd be worried less about this sitting thing — and I would stop asking the "sitting question" — if I had not been made to watch a movie via Kinect while standing up.

On Monday evening I participated in a brief demonstration of how Kinect could be used to control the Xbox 360 dashboard. This demonstration had me standing in front of the Kinect and using both hand-waves and voice commands to flip through menus on a TV and load applications such as movie-watching and video chat. There were chairs at this demo, but they were off to the side. I had to stand up.

The Kinect is superb at recognizing a standing player. It reads the presence of your body, detects 19 or so key joints in your frame and tracks your movement with magical immediacy. I had no more trouble swiping through the Kinect menus than I did steering the car in the Forza demo. Voice commands worked nicely as well, though I lamented that the Kinect couldn't distinguish my commands from anyone else's in the room. What I didn't understand is why I had to stand through all of this.

I liked telling the Xbox 360 to pause a movie. I liked extending my hand and dragging the movie's progress bar left or right, as if I was using the Star Wars Force to fast forward and rewind. But, I asked the Microsoft people running the demo, could I drag a chair over and try this sitting down?

No.

"Sitting is something we're still calibrating for," one of them told me.

Some time during the demo they showed me a video that simulated Kinect-powered video chat. That was going to be calibrated for sitting, right? And movie watching isn't really going to require me to stand, correct?

The Microsoft people pointed out that for entertainment applications like these I would be using a lot of voice commands and those would work just fine from a couch. That backs up the simulated Q&A bit from Microsoft about how, "when you want to enjoy movies, music, and ESPN on Xbox 360, you can control your entertainment hands free from the comfort of your couch." They don't say anything about games. And they don't say anything about relying on voice-command rather than body motion detection.

One of the Microsoft people with whom I was discussing the "sitting question" said the chair stuff is just more complicated. You could be sitting far away, at an angle. True, though I had asked to move a chair in front of the TV before being denied.

A demo reel Microsoft released of families playing Kinect does does show them using hand gestures to manipulate a movie while sitting, but it is not clear if they are really using the tech. At least it is a sign that Microsoft wants Kinect to work like this.

Sitting is an important, if not essential, posture for gaming. You sit to play Halo. You sit to play Fable. You can sit to play most Wii games, even though you risk of failing, flailing or injuring the people next to you. Sitting is good. Microsoft has presented Kinect as a control option relevant to all gamers. And developers have theorized that it could be used to enhance even the most hardcore — shall we call them "sitting-centric"? — games. How Kinect would work with a game we normally play seated is now an open question.

To those doubting Kinect, I can say that, after a week of playing more of its games, it works great. But after a week of noticing a lack of seated play — after a week of not getting a single developer or Microsoft person to clearly state that Kinect can track your body while you sit — I'm left to wonder if this impressive tech has a problem. Controller-free gaming is an exciting future. Couch-free gaming (and maybe movie-watching and video-chatting)? Say it ain't so.
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Thanks foolkiller, now I can tell my dad to stick with Wii since he has just one leg and is 62 years old:tdown: He loves wii....
 
FoolKiller
You do realize that the PS Eye has been doing this for years, right?
Click to expand...

But it wasn't on the 360, so it doesn't count! AHLALALALALALALALALALALA!


Microsoft has baked in a few nice touches, and they'll likely sell quite a few. The trick will be getting the pricing just right, and making sure that their name becomes autonomous with motion control, and "active" gaming. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft has the PR power to make sure that it happens.


In other news: I want a damn 3DS, now. Please.
 
YSSMAN
But it wasn't on the 360, so it doesn't count! AHLALALALALALALALALALALA!


Microsoft has baked in a few nice touches, and they'll likely sell quite a few. The trick will be getting the pricing just right, and making sure that their name becomes autonomous with motion control, and "active" gaming. I'm pretty sure that Microsoft has the PR power to make sure that it happens.
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Unfortunately, all the stores have it priced at $150, which WAAAAAAAY more than I'd pay for a motion controller. heck the $100 for the PS move bundle is pushing it.
 

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