E3 2011: The Parallel Paths of Forza Motorsport 4

[t.o.]

Teaming up with a tire company isn't going to change ALL the physics in the game. Just the tire physics. So..essentially, exactly what PD did for the new tire physics model in GT5. But I like that model...it'll be interesting to see what Perelli's model looks like. The only down side...all the tires in Forza will be Perelli's won't they?

Who knows? But it wouldn't be too bad. And would be interesting to see how Perelli's tires handle versus.. what was the tire company that gave PD their tire data?

 

[Yui-san]

Hope Turn10 doesn't make the same stupid mistake as PD did with the "Premium" and "Standard" Cars... if they don't, this game is going to be a blast

 

[phil-t]

Regarding tyre physics, this has a nice snippet of info that might be interesting..
http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/InsideXbox/E3-Forza-4-interview-with-Dan-Greenawalt

They don't use a tyre 'model' as such anymore, they use raw tyre data from Pirelli, they got Pirelli to test the tyres (presumably under all conditions), and use that data to determine exactly what the tyres do.. Hmm.. not overly sure about how that pans out, only time will tell, it seems to be getting good initial feedback from regular journo's (IGN/Jalopnik), so at a high level of cursory 'feel' it probably is going to please more people, however, I'd be interested to see how it feels at the low level, when hotlapping and maximising momentum, something the current engine feels very nuanced with (IMO).

As for it being limited to one manufacturer (pirelli), that doesn't bother me, Pirelli do a massive range of tyres, so as long as we get accurate physics for each type of tyre, and we can switch them out on the cars, surely that's the main thing.. It would be great if we could choose from lots of manufacturers tyres, with all being real world accurate, but that's asking way too much at the moment..

Anyway, it's all talk at the moment, I would like some feedback from the floor from more accredited people who know how all the games handle..

 

[phil-t]

Hope Turn10 doesn't make the same stupid mistake as PD did with the "Premium" and "Standard" Cars... if they don't, this game is going to be a blast

The main gripe with standard vs premium was inconsistency in-game with cockpit views, exceedingly low rent visuals in some cases, this isn't going to be the case with FM4, all cars will have cockpit view, all will have reasonable polygon counts etc,

But as I said, the 'showroom' mode is supposed to be a completely different game mode with challenges, car interactions etc, and for that, I expect it to be limited to certain cars..

 

[JoeMaPampang]

TAKE THAT KAZ !ENJOY

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Regarding tyre physics, this has a nice snippet of info that might be interesting..
http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/InsideXbox/E3-Forza-4-interview-with-Dan-Greenawalt

They don't use a tyre 'model' as such anymore, they use raw tyre data from Pirelli, they got Pirelli to test the tyres (presumably under all conditions), and use that data to determine exactly what the tyres do.. Hmm.. not overly sure about how that pans out, only time will tell, it seems to be getting good initial feedback from regular journo's (IGN/Jalopnik), so at a high level of cursory 'feel' it probably is going to please more people, however, I'd be interested to see how it feels at the low level, when hotlapping and maximising momentum, something the current engine feels very nuanced with (IMO).

As for it being limited to one manufacturer (pirelli), that doesn't bother me, Pirelli do a massive range of tyres, so as long as we get accurate physics for each type of tyre, and we can switch them out on the cars, surely that's the main thing.. It would be great if we could choose from lots of manufacturers tyres, with all being real world accurate, but that's asking way too much at the moment..

Anyway, it's all talk at the moment, I would like some feedback from the floor from more accredited people who know how all the games handle..

Nice video:tup:

 

[VXR]

Regardless of which side of the divide you stand on, to see two companies showing this much passion for our hobby is great for all of us as car fans.

 

[phil-t]

And some poor quality, poor white balanced off-screen vids from IGN..

12 Cars in offline mode in the E3 Demo, which is reassuring..

http://www.ign.com/videos/games/forza-kinect-xbox-360-77615

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

HOly crap quite possibly THE best looking racing game out there now. Some of those graphics not only look incredible for Forza but at this point I think they blow everything else right out of the water now. Those close up gauge shots are just jaw dropping in detail!!! Lets face it, at this point there is nothing touching F4 graphically.

Whatever they did graphically from F3 to F4 is a HUGE leap forward. Way better than I expected by a longshot. So it looks like that April fools video they showed in April, wasnt an April fools joke at all. It truly was an F4 video.

So if we combine the April video and the E3 video we have these confirmed new features.

1. 16 cars on the track
2. Moving bodyparts like rear spoilers
3. Backfire
4. Vinyls carry over from F3 to F4
5. Huge improvement in graphics
6. Head tracking using Kinect

I still want to see the weather from PGR4!! So far no weather yet.
Also not sure if there will be any day/night tracks at all.

 

[-=DV=-]

Actually, FM and NFS Shift had, at least, the same target in mind: KILL GT. "

Sorry It took me so long to address this comment, I only just stopped laughing.....no wait...its still hilarious! ill get back to you in a week!

 

[-=DV=-]

Hope Turn10 doesn't make the same stupid mistake as PD did with the "Premium" and "Standard" Cars... if they don't, this game is going to be a blast

Then you will be interested in this

Dan Going in debt about Forza 4 and all its features link below.
Includes some awesome new ingame footage (lighting looks awesome!!)
http://media.ch9.ms/ch9/b5b1/73fcc90a-0631-406c-958c-9efa0119b5b1/Forza4DanG_2MB_ch9.wmv

Forza Motorsport 4 Game Info

Content
- 80 Manufacturers including Ruf and Porsche.
- 500 Cars at launch.
- 10 Cars a month through DLC.
- Autovista mode has 10 hours of content by itself to explore and partake in.
- World Tour mode.
- Top Gear content and track.
- New Pirelli partnership.


Gameplay
- 16 cars on track at a time racing.
-Live telemetry

Graphics
- 60 FPS.
- Every Vehicle has been re-rendered.
- Over 1 million polygons per car.
- New Lighting system

Physics
- Complete overhaul of tire dynamics. (Pirelli partnership)

Features
- Autovista (Kinect controllable photomode.)
- Car Clubs
- Rivals Mode (Compete against friends whether they are online or not.)
- Head Tracking using Kinect.
- World Tour Mode Campaign.
- Customizable Instrument Display Modes.

Other
- Ability to import profiles and liveries from Forza 3.
- The game's menus can be navigated using gestures or voice.
- All cars and tracks have equal graphical fidelity.
- In Autovista mode every car has a soliloquy by Jeremy Clarkson.

Something that does look concerning is that the autovista mode has 10 hours of content. 10 hours of content devided by 500 cars doesnt look good for all 500 cars being included in it. Although they could all be included but only a selection of say half has clarkeson talking about them.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I can only believe that the showroom mode is limited to certain cars, that's all anyone can reasonably expect (IMO), the level of detail with opening doors/bonnets etc is just too much work. Possibly we may get more cars modelled to this level over time (and via DLC), excitingly, what a vehicle (PUN Intended) for car manufacturers to showcase new models etc.. this has potential..

I know this has an element of standard/premium to it that I'm sure will be jumped on, but the reality is, all cars whilst racing will be equal, which is a big distinction.

The Autovista mode has me a bit nervous.
I have a feeling you might be right. I hope you are wrong because in reality it would indeed be the premium / standard crap that I hate in GT5. I truly hope they allow ALL the cars to have the highest detail to open the doors and view the entire interiors. But I have a nasty gut feeling that it really will be the standard / premium all over again. I sure hope not. I hope they prove us all wrong and ALL the cars can be opened up and viewed from any angle like they are showing. If every car can be viewed then that will be beyond impresive when you consider F4 has only been in development for 2 years.

 

[VXR]

I wouldn't be surprised if FM4 was being worked on alongside FM3, given how to many the third game felt like an interim product.

As for night/weather, I expect they will have to hold back something sensational to warrant its own event later today.

 

[-=DV=-]

I hope autovista mode includes all the cars. But to be fair, as alot of the cars are space fillers, and you can go over them at your local dealership, I could completely understand why they may choose to leave some of the more boring ones out to save disc space for the more interesting cars

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I hope autovista mode includes all the cars. But to be fair, as alot of the cars are space fillers, and you can go over them at your local dealership, I could completely understand why they may choose to leave some of the more boring ones out to save disc space for the more interesting cars

I dont support PDs decision to only do 20% cars premium and I will not support T10s decision to only provide a certain amount of "premium" cars. Its just not acceptable at all. If you cant allow every single car in the game to share every feature the game has to offer, then dont release the game! Its my number 1 complaint with GT5 and I do not want to see this happen to Forza 4. I will be very upset to say the least if Forza pulls the same crap as PD with this standard / premium crap. There is no acceptable excuse for that AT ALL!
One optimistic way to look at it is that we know for sure ALL the cars will at least have an interior in F4 since all the cars have an interior in F3.

 

[-=DV=-]

In photomode and racing all cars will be the same level of detail. Who cares if some 1.2 litre grocery getter from 1983 doesnt have a 5 minute dribble about how boring and bland it is. Id rather see the disc space used to provide more information about exciting cars instead of wasting disc space showing you something you could see at your local dealership

 

[phil-t]

In photomode and racing all cars will be the same level of detail. Who cares if some 1.2 litre grocery getter from 1983 doesnt have a 5 minute dribble about how boring and bland it is. Id rather see the disc space used to provide more information about exciting cars instead of wasting disc space showing you something you could see at your local dealership

Pretty much as I see it, if it's just a limitation in this special autovista mode, then so be it.. As I mentioned previously, it might open the doors to manufacturers using it to showcase new models, which might allow them to be DLC for free, what a great way to launch your new Ferrari by allowing every Xbox owner the chance to walk around it, sit in it, fire it up and get the low down on the technical aspects..

If it in anyway made obvious discrepencies in the main game, I'd be upset, as it stands, if it was a choice of ditch the autovista because it only applies to a smaller number of cars, I'd rather keep autovista..

I can't believe the mere thought of some cars having a special showcase mode is seemingly tantamount to being a bad developer..

No problems though, I'm sure if Weather/Night or other big feature isn't in, we'll all feel disappointed, but it'll blow over..

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

In photomode and racing all cars will be the same level of detail. Who cares if some 1.2 litre grocery getter from 1983 doesnt have a 5 minute dribble about how boring and bland it is. Id rather see the disc space used to provide more information about exciting cars instead of wasting disc space showing you something you could see at your local dealership

Thats just rediculous and thats what killed GT5. Just because YOU dont like a specific car and YOU dont want to see info about it, does not mean someone else doesnt want to see it. Thats just close minded and the lazy way out. And you know the first time YOUR favorite car was not in that special mode, you would be crying like this smiley on the forums.

EVERY single car should be treated the exact same to avoid the problem that GT5 is facing. Cappuccino is premium yet Veyron is standard. I dont want to see that crap happen to Forza 4. NO EXCUSE FOR STANDARD/ PREMIUM AT ALL!

 

[phil-t]

Thats just rediculous and thats what killed GT5. Just because YOU dont like a specific car and YOU dont want to see info about it, does not mean someone else doesnt want to see it. Thats just close minded and the lazy way out. And you know the first time YOUR favorite car was not in that special mode, you would be crying like this smiley on the forums.

EVERY single car should be treated the exact same to avoid the problem that GT5 is facing. Cappuccino is premium yet Veyron is standard. I dont want to see that crap happen to Forza 4. NO EXCUSE FOR STANDARD/ PREMIUM AT ALL!

That's over-reacting surely? This isn't remotely close to the issue PD has with Standard/Premium

You can see any car up close, take photo's, drive from the cockpit, add livery to, etc, etc, etc, etc

The only thing you MAY not be able to do is open the doors and get Jeremy Clarkson tell you something about the car..

Resource is the simple excuse for this, it's not something evil that we need to rally up the troops for, it's simply that no doubt it takes a lot of time to model the extra required, do the overlays, the voice overs etc, and expecting 500 cars to get that treatment is insane IMO..

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I realize it is an over exaggerated example but you know exactly where I am going with it. If a developer can go 100% with ALL the cars, then dont release the game. As I said before, I dont defend PD for doing 20% of the cars and I sure as heck wont defend T10 if they do the same thing.

 

[phil-t]

I realize it is an over exaggerated example but you know exactly where I am going with it. If a developer can go 100% with ALL the cars, then dont release the game. As I said before, I dont defend PD for doing 20% of the cars and I sure as heck wont defend T10 if they do the same thing.

Can you not see the very clear and obvious distinction between PD and T10's possible standard/premium thing?

With PD, 80% of the cars where inferior in all game modes, no matter what you did, that was the inexcusable part..

With T10, 100% of the cars are equal throughout the vast majority of the game, it's only 1 'spin off' mini-game if you like where it differs, and then it's probably a case that you only have 'premium' cars in it, there is no disparity where you have standard/premium next to each other giving such a disparate experience..

I know you normally seem quite grounded, perhaps this does just press your buttons in the wrong way and winds you up, lets hope the press events today/tomorrow give us much better information to put this into perspective.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Can you not see the very clear and obvious distinction between PD and T10's possible standard/premium thing?

With PD, 80% of the cars where inferior in all game modes, no matter what you did, that was the inexcusable part..

With T10, 100% of the cars are equal throughout the vast majority of the game, it's only 1 'spin off' mini-game if you like where it differs, and then it's probably a case that you only have 'premium' cars in it, there is no disparity where you have standard/premium next to each other giving such a disparate experience..

I know you normally seem quite grounded, perhaps this does just press your buttons in the wrong way and winds you up, lets hope the press events today/tomorrow give us much better information to put this into perspective.

I think we are on different tracks with this. I do understand Autovista will be its own mode with limited cars. My main concern is with the detalied photomode part that allows you to open doors, engine compartments and more. THATS where my main concern comes in. I think my other thread with the Autovista also misleads my main concern.

 

[Spagetti69]

I am sorry but expecting 500 cars fully modeled in side and out is totally insane.

Look how long it took GT to do 200 exteriors.

The one saving grace is that you have experienced it before and not get caught again.
You can now walk away from the game and not feel robbed.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I am sorry but expecting 500 cars fully modeled in side and out is totally insane.

Look how long it took GT to do 200 exteriors.

The one saving grace is that you have experienced it before and not get caught again.
You can now walk away from the game and not feel robbed.

ALL the cars in F3 are already modeled inside and out and that game only took 2 years. So all the cars will already have that in F4.

My main concern is the ability to open the doors and view the engine compartments in all the cars with the detail they are showing. If they pull that off in 2 years of development it will be beyond impressive.

 

[-=DV=-]

I think we are on different tracks with this. I do understand Autovista will be its own mode with limited cars. My main concern is with the detalied photomode part that allows you to open doors, engine compartments and more. THATS where my main concern comes in. I think my other thread with the Autovista also misleads my main concern.

Let me straighten this out for you then.

Photomode is the same for all cars.

The mode where you walk around the car and open the doors, and engine compartment ect IS AUTOVISTA. settled.

By the way, the way you are carrying on over being given an extra mode with insane detail for some super interesting cars is making you sound like a MONUMENTAL cock

 

[phil-t]

I think we are on different tracks with this. I do understand Autovista will be its own mode with limited cars. My main concern is with the detalied photomode part that allows you to open doors, engine compartments and more. THATS where my main concern comes in. I think my other thread with the Autovista also misleads my main concern.

Lets wait and see, it looks like they have special vista's for an enhanced photo mode, in which case, I expect all 500 cars to be available for this, the only possibly disparity might be if they let you open the doors/bonnet only on a select few, but even then, it wouldn't be the end of the world..

But as it stands, the only mode where you can walk around and open doors etc is the autovista mode, nothing else is known.

Now, if I couldn't at least get any car I wanted into that photo location, then perhaps it might be a slightly bigger deal, although normal photomode is still present and available to all cars with no disparity..

 

[jabofu]

I am sorry but expecting 500 cars fully modeled in side and out is totally insane.

Look how long it took GT to do 200 exteriors.

The one saving grace is that you have experienced it before and not get caught again.
You can now walk away from the game and not feel robbed.

You call outsourcing insane?

 

[Spagetti69]

You call outsourcing insane?

No.

I calling someone who expects 500 models inside and out insane.

Go on have high expectations. I know who will be more disappointed if not met.

 

[Mr Latte]

No.

I calling someone who expects 500 models inside and out insane.

Go on have high expectations. I know who will be more disappointed if not met.

The problem is, when something isn't stated to be fully featured in a game for say every car or track, those that expect it to be FULLY incorporated is their own faults.

If I book a holiday at a resort that offers free complimentary coffee's should I then expect the complete bar service to be free as well. Some people just expect too much and moan/whinge when what they thought would be the case actually isn't but then it never was stated as such.

 

[Digitool]

*Grabs popcorn and soda*

Please... continue... this is great entertainment. Much better that "work" stuff I'm supposed to be doing....