Ebola: I Guess We Are All Going To Die

[Swagger897]

Except hospitals should be equipped now, dealing with Ebola is similar to dealing with TB or MRSA, and those are more contagious since they are airborne.

Hospitals should choose whether or not they want to equip themselves for things as such. The CDC should only enforce major hospitals do so really with means of close transportation around to international destinations (or be capable of handling such traffic)

This doesn't explain why you think we should only have one when there is a crisis that might spread to the U.S. What good would one hospital be then?

@prisonermonkeys Who do you think knows more about Ebola, politicians or the CDC? Guess which one is pushing the quarantine as you want it. If you think the CDC has it wrong then you've been suckered by political posturing for an election in five days, an election with the ability to change the direction of the politics in this country for the next two years. If this were a month from now I guarantee this wouldn't even be a debate.

There is no crisis now in the US. Why does everyone think that when less than 10 people in the US have this, it is declared a crisis. Right now, it is just a situation that no one knows what to do, especially properly train people who are less than qualified to handle such.

One hospital would keep the media madness down. They are the source of many issues. If no one saw this woman on a usual bike ride, it would have gone under the radar.


I view this whole situation like this:
Say you go to the doctor's to get your flu shot. You don't expect to get the flu from the shot, or going to the doctors office. You definitely don't expect to get any other virus that will make you sick. You get your shot, you go to work. A few days later you get chickenpox. You didn't expect it to happen. Almost like getting hit by a car, you aren't expecting it.
The only issue is that when people find out who has it, they point the finger at them as if they are the source of the whole situation. When someone starts to bleed unexplained, then I'm sure they are gonna go get help. But you shouldn't be forced to remain in quarantine, rather stay away from people (unless you have the disease, and are already showing symptoms [more than just a fever]).

 

[Joey D]

Hospitals should choose whether or not they want to equip themselves for things as such. The CDC should only enforce major hospitals do so really with means of close transportation around to international destinations (or be capable of handling such traffic)

They can choose to do whatever they want, but I'm fairly sure not having properly equipped rooms for infectious containment or proper PPE for staff goes against JCAHO and CMS. So if a hospital isn't properly equipped they won't be accredited or receive Medicaid/Medicare reimbursement.

 

[FoolKiller]

There is no crisis now in the US. Why does everyone think that when less than 10 people in the US have this, it is declared a crisis.

I didn't say it was a crisis in the US. Do you understand what preparedness means in medical terms? I work with CDC members at work, including a guy who went to Africa. The US needs to be prepared for an issue that might arise. If there was suddenly 10 ebola patients next month and only one hospital capable of handling 4-5 patients, as you propose, then what would you do? I wouldn't be surprised if complaining about lack of preparedness was part of it.

properly train people who are less than qualified to handle such.

I don't even know what this means.

One hospital would keep the media madness down. They are the source of many issues. If no one saw this woman on a usual bike ride, it would have gone under the radar.

Yes, it's her bike ride that drew attention, not Governor Christie's fear-based, election pumping policy, that drew attention to her.

I view this whole situation like this:
Say you go to the doctor's to get your flu shot. You don't expect to get the flu from the shot, or going to the doctors office. You definitely don't expect to get any other virus that will make you sick. You get your shot, you go to work. A few days later you get chickenpox. You didn't expect it to happen. Almost like getting hit by a car, you aren't expecting it.
The only issue is that when people find out who has it, they point the finger at them as if they are the source of the whole situation. When someone starts to bleed unexplained, then I'm sure they are gonna go get help. But you shouldn't be forced to remain in quarantine, rather stay away from people (unless you have the disease, and are already showing symptoms [more than just a fever]).

I agree with this. Forced quarantine is ridiculous.

 

[Swagger897]

I didn't say it was a crisis in the US. Do you understand what preparedness means in medical terms? I work with CDC members at work, including a guy who went to Africa. The US needs to be prepared for an issue that might arise. If there was suddenly 10 ebola patients next month and only one hospital capable of handling 4-5 patients, as you propose, then what would you do? I wouldn't be surprised if complaining about lack of preparedness was part of it.

I would expect a plan within a month to out be outlined by this Ebola czar, but I can't predict how many people get the virus. SO FAR, it's only been one case at a time (not including the nurses) so it is not an outbreak coming from a defined source in the US.

Preparedness, I think the word is the same for any application, but I would like to hear what medical preparedness is.

I don't even know what this means..

Was typing while racing last night. I originally meant poorly trained (people-nurses, those who are dealing with the virus).

Yes, it's her bike ride that drew attention, not Governor Christie's fear-based, election pumping policy, that drew attention to her.

Not sure what a New Jersey governor has anything to deal with a woman riding a bike in the northernmost part of the continental US.

 

[FoolKiller]

I would expect a plan within a month to out be outlined by this Ebola czar, but I can't predict how many people get the virus. SO FAR, it's only been one case at a time (not including the nurses) so it is not an outbreak coming from a defined source in the US.

If it happens (and I think the odds are low) we know where it will be coming from, which is why certain airports are being prepared with temporary quarantine areas.

But if a patient became contagious mid-flight, or multiple exposed medical workers came back in a small time frame, you could possibly have more patients than you have beds at one hospital. You need more hospitals just to prevent a major risk.

Preparedness, I think the word is the same for any application, but I would like to hear what medical preparedness is.

In medicine it means being prepared to handle a worst case scenario. It is something we fail at in this country. Four hospitals isn't enough for that, but it reaches a middle ground between financial expense for a low chance scenario and being prepared to prevent that scenario. If we only prepare for what is happening right now we aren't prepared to prevent or handle worse. It's like saying "I don't have colon cancer, so why should I get a colonoscopy?" or the people who don't get a flu shot just because they have never caught the flu.

On the number of hospitals the CDC is ready to handle multiple cases in multiple regions. With just one it won't do any good if they suddenly get six cases. But if it were just one hospital, it would be Emory.

If having an ebola prepared hospital locally bothers people how does Atlanta feel about the CDC facility, which likely has live cultures of the most horrific diseases known to man?

Was typing while racing last night. I originally meant poorly trained (people-nurses, those who are dealing with the virus).

Are you talking about Kaci Hickox or nurses in the US?

Not sure what a New Jersey governor has anything to deal with a woman riding a bike in the northernmost part of the continental US.

Her story became famous when she was forced into a quarantine tent without running water by New Jersey after her plane landed. We wouldn't even have heard about her bike ride if that hadn't happened. How many other returning medical personnel going through their daily lives, following CDC protocol, have you heard about?

I work with one. Have you heard about the CDC guy in KY who is already back at his day job at state public health? He even gave a presentation to all staff about his trip.

 

[Dotini]

I found the following posted recently in another forum. It had a couple of quick "likes" by the forum staff.


1. While the lethality of airborne Ebola infection is low under the warm and humid conditions of sub-Saharan Africa, the U. S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) suggests that the virus can be carried through ordinary ventilation systems under cooler and dryer conditions—conditions that are common in the rest of the world’s more populous areas. The 1989 infectious outbreak of Ebola in rhesus monkeys in a quarantine facility in Reston, Virginia, is thought to have spread in this manner. http://www.infowars.com/u-s-army-ebola-goes-airborne-once-temperature-drops/


2. Many viral infections (hepatitis B, HIV, EBV, herpes simplex, etc.) are characterized by “asymptomatic carriers”. These are individuals who can infect others with the disease, but show no symptoms themselves. No such carriers have been identified as yet in connection with Ebola, but it would be foolhardy to assume that such carriers do not exist or will not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptomatic_carrier


3. The U. S. is posting troops to infected areas to help fight the current outbreak. When their tour of duty in these areas is completed, they will be returned to the U. S. where they will presumably be quarantined for a period of time. Quarantines are completely ineffective against asymptomatic carriers, and many of these posts have the cool and dry conditions that favor the airborne spread of the disease.


Something to think about.

 

[FoolKiller]

I found the following posted recently in another forum. It had a couple of quick "likes" by the forum staff.


1. While the lethality of airborne Ebola infection is low under the warm and humid conditions of sub-Saharan Africa, the U. S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) suggests that the virus can be carried through ordinary ventilation systems under cooler and dryer conditions—conditions that are common in the rest of the world’s more populous areas. The 1989 infectious outbreak of Ebola in rhesus monkeys in a quarantine facility in Reston, Virginia, is thought to have spread in this manner. http://www.infowars.com/u-s-army-ebola-goes-airborne-once-temperature-drops/

Droplet exposure vs airborne seems to be slightly missed in this scare piece. Droplet exposure has been said to be possible, and likely how care workers have caught the disease. Airborne over a large distance though is completely different. I am curious how the monkeys were tested with aerosolized viruses. An appropriate test would require a half second aerosolized spray that is roughly ten or more feet from the test subject. And the spray should not be aimed directly at the test subject. I'd also like to see a room hit with a sneeze's worth of droplets/spray and then a test subject be brought in after 10 minutes.

But it should be noted that airborne does not mean an infected patient walks through a room without touching anything and infects anyone else who was there.


2. Many viral infections (hepatitis B, HIV, EBV, herpes simplex, etc.) are characterized by “asymptomatic carriers”. These are individuals who can infect others with the disease, but show no symptoms themselves. No such carriers have been identified as yet in connection with Ebola, but it would be foolhardy to assume that such carriers do not exist or will not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptomatic_carrier [/quote]
I don't understand the science, but I am lead to believe that the nature of pre-symptomatic ebola (in this current strain) requires a large density of the viruses to transmit. It is a large enough density that the host will be symptomatic. I am trying to find the link where I read that, but having trouble. Will add if I find it.

It should also be noted that there are zero cases of asymptomatic ebola spread in humans.

3. The U. S. is posting troops to infected areas to help fight the current outbreak. When their tour of duty in these areas is completed, they will be returned to the U. S. where they will presumably be quarantined for a period of time. Quarantines are completely ineffective against asymptomatic carriers, and many of these posts have the cool and dry conditions that favor the airborne spread of the disease.

If you quarantine everyone how is it not effective against an asymptomatic carrier? They are all in quarantine.

And if it is airborne, quarantine facilities are designed to prevent the air from going outside the containment unit through pressurized controls. So unless airborne now means it can literally fly against the current, the conditions of a functional quarantine facility mean nothing to those outside of it.

 

[Famine]

If you quarantine everyone how is it not effective against an asymptomatic carrier? They are all in quarantine.

Indeed - the entire function of quarantine is to isolate asymptomatic individuals from genpop for the incubation period of the disorder to which they have potentially exposed. You don't quarantine symptomatic individuals - you treat them in an isolation ward.

 

[Swagger897]

Indeed - the entire function of quarantine is to isolate asymptomatic individuals from genpop for the incubation period of the disorder to which they have potentially exposed. You don't quarantine symptomatic individuals - you treat them in an isolation ward.

But then you have to take care of the health care workers... which is the contributing problem at least in the US now.

 

[Famine]

But then you have to take care of the health care workers... which is the contributing problem at least in the US now.

What does that have to do with my post?

 

[Swagger897]

Well unless those showing symptoms are going to be fighting it off with only their immune systems, someone has to take care of them.

Now looking back at your post, I do see you were explaining how they are to be quarantined, but what is the quarantine/isolation ward worth if it (Ebola) still goes beyond the first level of protection.
I hope that make a bit more sense??

 

[Famine]

Now looking back at your post, I do see you were explaining how they are to be quarantined, but what is the quarantine/isolation ward worth if it (Ebola) still goes beyond the first level of protection.

Almost none at all.

The purpose of quarantine is to prevent those who have been exposed to the infection to develop the disorder - or not - in a manner that does not expose them to infect others. The purpose of isolation is to treat those who have been exposed to the infection in a manner that does not expose them to infect others. If they're able to infect others, the quarantine and isolation measures were ineffective, misused or inappropriate.

In the case of a class 4 pathogen, appropriate measures would be a negative pressure environment with biomedical grade HEPA filters and anyone who is needed to enter the environment should wear a full positive pressure suit with HEPA filters. In a properly equipped quarantine or isolation ward, it should be impossible for healthcare workers to contract disorders from the patients unless their suit is breached (by needlestick, for example).


That said, even a shoddy isolation/quarantine will only expose healthcare workers, not the entire population.

 

[Swagger897]

Almost none at all.

The purpose of quarantine is to prevent those who have been exposed to the infection to develop the disorder - or not - in a manner that does not expose them to infect others. The purpose of isolation is to treat those who have been exposed to the infection in a manner that does not expose them to infect others. If they're able to infect others, the quarantine and isolation measures were ineffective, misused or inappropriate.

In the case of a class 4 pathogen, appropriate measures would be a negative pressure environment with biomedical grade HEPA filters and anyone who is needed to enter the environment should wear a full positive pressure suit with HEPA filters. In a properly equipped quarantine or isolation ward, it should be impossible for healthcare workers to contract disorders from the patients unless their suit is breached (by needlestick, for example).


That said, even a shoddy isolation/quarantine will only expose healthcare workers, not the entire population.

Right, but for those who do enter the same enclosure which the patients are located, what secondary level of protection do they have to stop from infecting others?
The doctor who recently returned back to New York is what I'm trying to get at, although the woman in Maine is the complete opposite case. I'm just curious as to what was different from the two as how did one get it and the other (so far) did not?

 

[Famine]

Right, but for those who do enter the same enclosure which the patients are located, what secondary level of protection do they have to stop from infecting others?

anyone who is needed to enter the environment should wear a full positive pressure suit with HEPA filters.

And if they are exposed to an infected, symptomatic patient, quarantine.

The doctor who recently returned back to New York is what I'm trying to get at, although the woman in Maine is the complete opposite case. I'm just curious as to what was different from the two as how did one get it and the other (so far) did not?

Proper quarantine/isolation. Or luck - exposure to a virus does not automatically confer infection by it.

 

[Swagger897]

And if they are exposed to an infected, symptomatic patient, quarantine.

My original point, as there is no plan I can recall for the workers unless they show symptoms. If the return to their home, 6-7 days later they have the virus, it's too late for quarantine back in Africa.

And then the media just churns it out from then on..

 

[Famine]

My original point, as there is no plan I can recall for the workers unless they show symptoms.

An asymptomatic individual is not infectious in the case of EBOV.

 

[Dennisch]

3 new cases reported in Mali after the death of a little girl.

 

[The Bman]

3 new cases reported in Mali after the death of a little girl.

Source?

 

[Mikeybc]

A doctor with Ebola from Sierra Leone is being flown to Nebraka for treatment. Supposedly he is to arrive this afternoon. The doctor is a US citizen and reports state he is critically ill.

 

[MisterWhiskers]

Now I'm no expert, but there is so much wrong with this lady's protective clothing it's a joke... if this happened in my lab, I'd have no option but to take serious disciplinary action.

 

[Swagger897]

Dr. Martin Salia who was being treated in Nebraska has died.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eb...tin-salia-has-died-nebraska-officials-n249956

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well, I'm sure this will all go away since Bob Geldof and One Direction are involved.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Well, I'm sure this will all go away since Bob Geldof and One Direction are involved.

What are they doing? I've seen Bono and Geldof on the news but I presumed it was to do with Bono's crash in New York? (Am I allowed to wish to see Bono crash/be injured? Can't remember the AUP terms. He was on a bike and therefore not a "driver"...).

 

[MatskiMonk]

What are they doing? I've seen Bono and Geldof on the news but I presumed it was to do with Bono's crash in New York? (Am I allowed to wish to see Bono crash/be injured? Can't remember the AUP terms. He was on a bike and therefore not a "driver"...).

Band Aid 30

Charity Facepalm mates....

 

[Robin]

Ebola case confirmed in Glasgow

Healthcare worker flew from Sierra Leone to Glasgow via Heathrow on Sunday and has been isolated after falling ill

A healthcare worker who returned from Sierra Leone on Sunday night has been diagnosed with Ebola and is receiving treatment in Glasgow, the Scottish government has said.

The woman has been isolated and is receiving treatment in the specialist Brownlee unit for infectious diseases on the Gartnavel hospital campus.

In a statement the Scottish government said the patient was a healthcare worker who was helping to combat the disease in west Africa. She returned to Scotland from Sierra Leone late on Sunday night via Casablanca and London Heathrow, arriving at Glasgow airport on British Airways flight BA1478 at about 11.30pm.

The flight from Casablanca was with a Moroccan airline. The flight number is not yet known but Public Health England will be contacting passengers who were on board.

The patient was admitted to hospital early on Monday morning after feeling unwell and was put in isolation at 7.50am. The Scottish government added: “All possible contacts with the patient are now being investigated and anyone deemed to be at risk will be contacted and closely monitored. However, having been diagnosed in the very early stages of the illness, the risk to others is considered extremely low.”

The first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has chaired a meeting of the Scottish government resilience committee to ensure all necessary steps are being taken, and has also spoken to the prime minister, David Cameron.

In a hastily arranged press conference, she said the risk to other people’s health was “extremely low given the early stage of diagnosis. The patient was displaying no symptoms of the kind that would lead to onwards transmission that would put other people at risk.”

According to UK and Scottish protocol for anyone diagnosed with Ebola, the patient will be transferred to the high-level isolation unit in the Royal Free hospital, London, as soon as possible. This is where the facilities, staff and systems are in place to ensure the best quality and safest care. The British nurse William Pooley was successfully treated at the hospital after he contracted Ebola in Sierra Leone last year.

Dr Alisdair MacConnachie, the NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde consultant in infectious diseases, who has been treating the patient, told the press conference the patient had identified that she had a fever in the early hours of Monday morning. She was then transferred to the Brownlee centre using a specialist ambulance service and admitted to the isolation facility.

She had no contact with other parts of the NHS or any accident and emergency facility. MacConnachie described her condition as “quite stable and not showing any great clinical concern at the minute”. Asked about the patient’s prospects, he said being clinically stable at this stage “should translate into a good prognosis”.

A telephone helpline has been set up for anyone who was on the Heathrow to Glasgow flight. The number is 08000 858531.

Sturgeon said: “Our first thoughts at this time must be with the patient diagnosed with Ebola and their friends and family. I wish them a speedy recovery.

“Scotland has been preparing for this possibility from the beginning of the outbreak in west Africa and I am confident that we are well prepared.

“We have the robust procedures in place to identify cases rapidly. Our health service also has the expertise and facilities to ensure that confirmed Ebola cases such as this are contained and isolated effectively minimising any potential spread of the disease.

“Scotland’s NHS has proved it is well able to cope with infectious diseases in the past, such as swine flu, and I am confident we will be able to respond effectively again.”

A handful of Ebola cases are expected in the UK in the coming months, the chief medical officer has said.

Dame Sally Davies said the NHS remained “well prepared” for the deadly virus, which has claimed more than 7,000 lives across west Africa.

The health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, told MPs in October that a number of Ebola cases were expected in the UK by Christmas as he introduced screening for the disease at some of the country’s airports.

But figures from Public Health England show that 112 of the 113 tests on suspected Ebola sufferers were negative up to 4 December.

Pooley, 29, contracted the virus while working in Sierra Leone. He was given the all-clear in September following treatment at the Royal Free hospital.

Davies said: “The risk of the general public in this country catching Ebola remains very low. However, we still estimate that there could be a handful of cases in this country over the coming months.

“The NHS is very well prepared for Ebola and the requirement for screening at selected ports of entry is being kept continually under review.”

These healthcare workers do such selfless work then selfishly come into the UK without a self imposed quarantine before departure travelling through 2 airports and endanger everyone here!

 

[MadFlavour]

These healthcare workers do such selfless work then selfishly come into the UK without a self imposed quarantine before departure travelling through 2 airports and endanger everyone here!

Absolutely disgusting, leave them their or thoroughly check them before they're allowed back here. Of course the government won't do that though because theirs no profit in it.

 

[Keef]

Some people believe that humans have a duty to help others. Unfortunately these people haven't fully considered the implications. Their ethical beliefs are faulty. In fact, it is possibly to hurt others by attempting to help others.

 

[terminator363]

View attachment 256800

I would still stick to this.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Stop Press: Deep fried Ebola now on sale.

 

[Carbonox]

Wait, Ebola still exists?