Ebola: I Guess We Are All Going To Die

[FoolKiller]

So a nurse currently quarantined and under observation in New Jersey wants to sue the US government arguing that forced quarantine breaches her constitutional right to freedom.

I'm sorry but how selfish can someone be, it's not a big ask to quarantine all medical staff coming back from Africa for a short amount of time and you should want to be quarantined if you care about yourself and your fellow citizens.

All these guys going off all over the place (flights, cruises etc) right after handling Ebola patients is beyond comprehension, can't you wait just 15 or so days before deciding to bolt off somewhere?

Let me guess, you caught just a news brief and didn't wait for all the details. She is an epidemiologist, well versed in proper protocol. She was following it by doing the required testing at the hospital and despite three negative tests, including one done by the CDC, was taken like a prisoner to a solitary style facility in the hospital because Governor Chris Christie announced that she is obviously sick, despite having never seen her. He even said he hopes she recovers quickly. He instantly assumed she was sick. His language and actions show he is ignorant of the facts in this case. She is the victim of political maneuvers that had no medical professionals involved.

Even if this were a truly necessary medical quarantine of a sick person, her bathroom is basically an outhouse. No shower or flushable toilet. She refused to turn over her phone and it was only after a phone interview with media that the hospital would even comment.

See, this isn't the same quarantine monitoring everyone else faces. This is a first during this. The larger problem it creates is that it may discourage healthcare workers from going to Africa or cause them to try to skim around the monitoring system when they came home. Taking restrictions to a solitary confinement level could actual cause more spread.

I agree that it would be in everyone's interest if these people were asked to not go anywhere after coming home. I have medical travel restrictions. But it is not acceptable to place likely non-infected people in a small space without proper facilities.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/

What I find ironic is.
Countries will quarantine your dog, cat, horse or what ever animal your bringing in to prevent the spread of disease, yet humans are never really quarantined and yet humans have spread more diseases from one country to another in the space of a few hours thanks to air travel.

A sick person goes on a plane, infects nearly everyone on board due to the A/C spreading the disease
Those people go on with their lives, the airline workers start their next shift, possibly infect the next set of passengers which take the disease to a new location.

We care more about animals than humans. That's obvious. Why else would Africa not be allowed to use DDT to help stop malaria?

Of course, anyone who tests positive for Ebola is not allowed to travel in such a way. And it wouldn't be feasible to test every passenger on every form of mass transport for every contagion.

 

[CinnamonOD]

I don't get it

 

[Grayfox]

I don't get it

Say it in a stereo type mexican voice
He Bol-A perfect game

 

[ScottPuss20]

So long as victims are contained, there will not be a huge death toll.

 

[Grayfox]

The thing with any disease is you can be infected before symptoms show.

Just quarantine the whole state/country, no one in, no one out.

 

[kikie]

http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/24/7058543/this-man-just-sold-ebola-for-200000

 

[Grayfox]

Well not everyone can buy any domain they like and then get rich, like that guy.

There would be copyright grounds on some domains.

If someone had a domain called ihealth and apple released a product called ihealth 2 years later, they can take it from you by claiming we own the trademark to "i" devices and this was just and attempt to steal our label in court.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If someone had a domain called ihealth and apple released a product called ihealth 2 years later, they can take it from you by claiming we own the trademark to "i" devices and this was just and attempt to steal our label in court.

Do you have a citation of a case where Apple have pulled off a trick like that?

As I recall Apple actually had to pay the music company (also Apple) for using their name.

I'm pretty sure there's some interesting Australian case law on the i- prefix too.

 

[Barra333]

Do you have a citation of a case where Apple have pulled off a trick like that?

As I recall Apple actually had to pay the music company (also Apple) for using their name.

I'm pretty sure there's some interesting Australian case law on the i- prefix too.

It probably depends on when the website/name was taken. iSomething.com registered before Apple started making iThings would have a much better chance in court than one registered last week.

 

[niky]

The thing with any disease is you can be infected before symptoms show.

Just quarantine the whole state/country, no one in, no one out.

Good luck with that.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...for-ebola-after-developing-fever-9818873.html

Let us know how the toilets are like in quarantine, will you?

 

[Robin]

Let me guess, you caught just a news brief and didn't wait for all the details. She is an epidemiologist, well versed in proper protocol. She was following it by doing the required testing at the hospital and despite three negative tests, including one done by the CDC, was taken like a prisoner to a solitary style facility in the hospital because Governor Chris Christie announced that she is obviously sick, despite having never seen her. He even said he hopes she recovers quickly. He instantly assumed she was sick. His language and actions show he is ignorant of the facts in this case. She is the victim of political maneuvers that had no medical professionals involved.

Even if this were a truly necessary medical quarantine of a sick person, her bathroom is basically an outhouse. No shower or flushable toilet. She refused to turn over her phone and it was only after a phone interview with media that the hospital would even comment.

See, this isn't the same quarantine monitoring everyone else faces. This is a first during this. The larger problem it creates is that it may discourage healthcare workers from going to Africa or cause them to try to skim around the monitoring system when they came home. Taking restrictions to a solitary confinement level could actual cause more spread.

I agree that it would be in everyone's interest if these people were asked to not go anywhere after coming home. I have medical travel restrictions. But it is not acceptable to place likely non-infected people in a small space without proper facilities.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/

Yes I did just catch the abridged version on the news, thank you for explaining it in more detail. I do understand that they may have been a big misunderstanding in this case but even if wrongfully quarantined I really do think these are exceptional circumstances and if anyone is asked to be monitored they should not hesitate to do so however misguided.

As for the conditions of her quarantine they may be substandard but it's hardly guantanamo bay. 21 days in a tent and this person just came back from dealing with Ebola in Africa... must seem like a hotel.

 

[niky]

After doing a marathon, the last thing I need to be told is that the bus has broken down twenty miles from home and I'll have to walk the rest of the way.

 

[FoolKiller]

Governor Chris Christie is letting her out today and sending her home to do her already planned home quarantine in Maine. He refuses to admit that he did anything wrong, constantly saying that now that she is not sick it is OK and this was his plan all along, but he has taken grief from the president, the CDC, and other health care experts. HE keeps saying that she has improved, and the nurse keeps wondering what improved from not having any symptoms.

The true comedy here is that on October 22nd he tweeted this:

 

[TenEightyOne]

Brilliant

There's an interesting point raised by the story though. I agree with most people that in this case the reaction was excessive but here's a poop/disease question; if a sufferer is using a public water system to toilet then for how long does their excreted contribution to that system remain dangerous?

Granted, most people won't be knocking around in the sewers to be exposed, but I just wondered

 

[Omnis]

Governor Chris Christie is letting her out today and sending her home to do her already planned home quarantine in Maine. He refuses to admit that he did anything wrong, constantly saying that now that she is not sick it is OK and this was his plan all along, but he has taken grief from the president, the CDC, and other health care experts. HE keeps saying that she has improved, and the nurse keeps wondering what improved from not having any symptoms.

The true comedy here is that on October 22nd he tweeted this:

View attachment 246130

At least he didn't put the outhouse on the other side of a bridge.

 

[FoolKiller]

Brilliant

There's an interesting point raised by the story though. I agree with most people that in this case the reaction was excessive but here's a poop/disease question; if a sufferer is using a public water system to toilet then for how long does their excreted contribution to that system remain dangerous?

Granted, most people won't be knocking around in the sewers to be exposed, but I just wondered

The official word is, "protocols will be issued soon..." although an unnamed source says other fecal bacteria are hardier and a greater risk.

http://www.wnyc.org/story/can-sewage-spread-ebola-and-other-city-worker-questions/

 

[TenEightyOne]

The official word is, "protocols will be issued soon..." although an unnamed source says other fecal bacteria are hardier and a greater risk.

http://www.wnyc.org/story/can-sewage-spread-ebola-and-other-city-worker-questions/

Certainly true of some, for Ebola this virologist suggests that

He said typical wastewater treatment agents such as chlorine, UV radiation and ozone are effective at neutralizing Ebola.

"If I were working in waste treatment, I would be more worried about exposure to E. coli or the more common diarrheal viruses than I would the miniscule (theoretical) risk of being exposed to Ebola,"

Which would make sense for workers on post-treatment systems. There might still be a huge risk from pre-treatment systems though, I guess? Not that sewage workers are normally slopping about in shorts'n'snorkel though, obviously.

 

[Joey D]

Working in healthcare really shows just how much panic the fear mongering has caused. We've all been training on what each of us is supposed to do in the event an Ebola patient shows up in Grand Rapids and we've created various alerts in our EMR to help clinicians and schedulers determine whether or not a person is at risk. We aren't losing out minds nor does anyone think the sky is falling, the organization I work for is taking it seriously but I think they understand that there are way more viruses and infections out there that are far deadlier and pose a great risk to the US population. In fact we probably need to worry more about Enterovirus since there are already more confirmed cases and deaths in the US than from Ebola.

I think it's worth noting that the same amount of people in the US died from the Ice Bucket Challenge as did from Ebola, so no, I doubt we are all going to die.

 

[KSaiyu]

Working in healthcare really shows just how much panic the fear mongering has caused. We've all been training on what each of us is supposed to do in the event an Ebola patient shows up in Grand Rapids and we've created various alerts in our EMR to help clinicians and schedulers determine whether or not a person is at risk. We aren't losing out minds nor does anyone think the sky is falling, the organization I work for is taking it seriously but I think they understand that there are way more viruses and infections out there that are far deadlier and pose a great risk to the US population. In fact we probably need to worry more about Enterovirus since there are already more confirmed cases and deaths in the US than from Ebola.

I think it's worth noting that the same amount of people in the US died from the Ice Bucket Challenge as did from Ebola, so no, I doubt we are all going to die.

Yeah I'm not sure what my Ebola training will actually consist of. Since the symptoms are the same for a possible malaria infection I'm guessing it will consist of run fast from those with a fever, vomiting and diarrhoea; run really fast if they've just come from Africa.

 

[Dotini]

Australia now appears at the top of the scaremongering hall of shame, suspending entry visas for people from Ebola-affected countries in West Africa:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29798555#

It appears many of the healthcare workers in West Africa are volunteers (missionaries?). I question whether or not West Africa can get the vast, new legions of healthcare workers it needs in order to prevent Ebola from spreading to other regions? Especially if they are involuntarily confined to an uncomfortable quarantine upon their return to home port.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Australia now appears at the top of the scaremongering hall of shame, suspending entry visas for people from Ebola-affected countries in West Africa:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29798555#

It appears many of the healthcare workers in West Africa are volunteers (missionaries?). I question whether or not West Africa can get the vast, new legions of healthcare workers it needs in order to prevent Ebola from spreading to other regions? Especially if they are involuntarily confined to an uncomfortable quarantine upon their return to home port.

It's all Labor's fault!

[/government]

 

[Joey D]

Yeah I'm not sure what my Ebola training will actually consist of. Since the symptoms are the same for a possible malaria infection I'm guessing it will consist of run fast from those with a fever, vomiting and diarrhoea; run really fast if they've just come from Africa.

Ours was a PowerPoint that basically said don't go into patient's rooms without proper PPE, seeing as I'm in healthcare IT I don't think my risk for being exposed is very high even in the event our organization ends up with an Ebola patient. I guess the good thing now is that the local health department is monitoring a list of people within a so many mile radius of Grand Rapids that could have potentially come in contact with someone infected. As far as I know our organization will know almost immediately if one of those patient's shows up.

I do like the idea of running away as fast as possible though, that seems like the best option.

Oh and fun fact I heard on CNN today while eating lunch, more people have been married to Britney Spears than has died from Ebola in the US so your risk for marrying her is actually much higher.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Oh and fun fact I heard on CNN today while eating lunch, more people have been married to Britney Spears than has died from Ebola in the US so your risk for marrying her is actually much higher.

Only if for every 10 people that marry her another 17 would then marry her... then repeat...

And you're confusing "risk", the risk from marrying Britney Spears is misery, from Ebola it's death.

 

[Joey D]

Only if for every 10 people that marry her another 17 would then marry her... then repeat...

And you're confusing "risk", the risk from marrying Britney Spears is misery, from Ebola it's death.

I'll be honest, humor doesn't translate very well over the Internet. It was more of a joke/quip than anything.

 

[Touring Mars]

Now I'm no expert, but there is so much wrong with this lady's protective clothing it's a joke... if this happened in my lab, I'd have no option but to take serious disciplinary action.

 

[Dennisch]

If that happens in your lab, I think it is safe to say that either someone is celebrating Halloween or you are about to have a good time.

 

[TenEightyOne]

.. if this happened in my lab, I'd have no option but to take serious disciplinary action.

She-bola-me-over, and all that.

 

[FoolKiller]

Only if for every 10 people that marry her another 17 would then marry her... then repeat...

And you're confusing "risk", the risk from marrying Britney Spears is misery, from Ebola it's death.

OK, Mr. Buzzkill. Is it really wise to compare stats in third-world countries to the US?


Green = Recovered, Yellow = In treatment, Red = Died

Cases of Ebola Outside of West Africa - As of Oct. 28, 2014
United States Arrival date
Aid worker Aug. 2 Recovered
Missionary Aug. 2 Recovered
Doctor Sept. 5 Recovered
Doctor Sept. 9 Recovered
Visitor Sept. 30* Died
NBC Cameraman Oct. 6 Recovered
Nurse Oct. 11* Recovered
Nurse Oct. 15* Recovered
Doctor Oct. 23* In treatment
Spain
Priest Aug. 7 Died
Missionary Sept. 22 Died
Nurse Oct. 6* Recovered
France Arrival date
Nurse Sept. 19 Recovered
Britain
Nurse Aug. 24 Recovered
Germany
Doctor Aug. 27 Recovered
Physician Oct. 3 In treatment
U.N. medical official Oct 9 Died
Norway
Aid worker Oct. 6 Recovered
*Date of Ebola diagnosis.

Heck, the only person who died from Ebola in the US was not a US citizen and was just visiting, so it is impossible to tell what standard of living he had before that may have affected his outcome.



Source

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Now I'm no expert, but there is so much wrong with this lady's protective clothing it's a joke... if this happened in my lab, I'd have no option but to take serious disciplinary action.

It's lateral thinking in action, TM. Our government has had great success fighting Ebola with denial - they deny that it's a problem and nobody has caught it; ergo, they have been successful - so clearly someone thinks Ebola is vulnerable to low-cut hazmat suits. How many people wearing a low-cut hazmat suit have caught Ebola? None. Obviously it works.

Yes, I'm aware that's a logical fallacy. That's the joke.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'll be honest, humor doesn't translate very well over the Internet. It was more of a joke/quip than anything.

Ahah, fair enough, it was just like one of those "clever" quiz questions about risk when it's actually about initial probability, and I was grumpy