End of the road for manual shifters?

[Kent]

I've driven more than 300hp on one auto and over 500ft.lb torque on another.

I've got to say though... This thread is quickly falling apart.
No one is talking about the future of the manual.
Everyone is just rambling on about why manuals are better than autos.

If that continues, I'll be the mod to step up and admit the thread needs to be closed. Arguements are getting heated and the subject of discussion has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

I suggest we don't worry about which transmission is better and start worrying about what the future of the manual transmission may be?

Dealerships aren't ordering any manual trannys for customers where you guys live? Sounds like those dealers need to lose your buisness. When I bought my Corolla I had the choice of several different cars with manuals and autos.

Personally, I believe the manual will keep going for a long time to come. The auto may sell well but it doesn't fill the role when you're driving just for the sake of driving.

On a final note, I just want to mention that there shouldn't be black and white here...
People are acting like driving an auto means you don't know driving feel, you don't drive with passion, and you just aren't a driver.
On the other hand, saying you drive a manual is like saying you're cool cause you're a driver and you feel what it means to be a driver.

Am I the only person here who understands that life can require sacrifice and for many of us who drive automatics, the automatic is one of those sacrifices we make?
(guess not but thank god someone in here is level headed 👍 Duke 👍 )

Fortunately I was able to afford option B. Not everybody can. And among those who can't afford two cars, not everyone is a teenager who can just say "screw you, I want a manual so that's what I'm getting, deal with it."

I'm sorry, but other than the injured ankle thing (which is rather important, mind you) I don't really see anything that would really prevent you from owning a manual tranny car. Especially not something that fights with any selfish desires.

... I think the level headed members (or maybe just the grown-folks) understand. If you can't then that's your problem but please do me a favor and reserve your judgements.
Just because I drive an automatic doesn't mean I'm not as much or even more of a driver than the chump who thinks he's a driver just because he has a manual transmission.

So with all that said... Please guys... Let's discuss the future of the manual transmission and get away from this contest of who the drivers are based on our transmissions.

 

[Scaff]

I suggest we don't worry about which transmission is better and start worrying about what the future of the manual transmission may be?

Dealerships aren't ordering any manual trannys for customers where you guys live? Sounds like those dealers need to lose your buisness. When I bought my Corolla I had the choice of several different cars with manuals and autos.

Personally, I believe the manual will keep going for a long time to come. The auto may sell well but it doesn't fill the role when you're driving just for the sake of driving.

I have to say that this appears to be far less of an issue in the UK and Europe as a whole. manual transmission is still very, very much the norm. Certainly I don't see that changing for a long time, as smaller cars are still bought almost exclusively in manual form, as an auto can add between £500 and £1,500 to the cost of a car its a very pricey option indeed.

The subject of what cars a dealer gets to use as demo's is also an interesting one. While I can't speak for the US, in Europe manufactures have a huge influence in this area. Setting the standards that a dealer operates too, including exactly what demo models are available for customers. Now while they can't insist that dealers keep these exact models in stock, they can (and do) offer significant bonus payments to dealers who meet the right 'dealer standards' and can terminate franchises for those that repeatedly fail to meet them.

New product launches are even more controlled, as here manufacturers will only supply dealers with the launch demo cars that they say are available.

Fortunately for European customers these cars are almost always manuals.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Kent]

I have to say that this appears to be far less of an issue in the UK and Europe as a whole. manual transmission is still very, very much the norm. Certainly I don't see that changing for a long time, as smaller cars are still bought almost exclusively in manual form, as an auto can add between £500 and £1,500 to the cost of a car its a very pricey option indeed.

The subject of what cars a dealer gets to use as demo's is also an interesting one. While I can't speak for the US, in Europe manufactures have a huge influence in this area. Setting the standards that a dealer operates too, including exactly what demo models are available for customers. Now while they can't insist that dealers keep these exact models in stock, they can (and do) offer significant bonus payments to dealers who meet the right 'dealer standards' and can terminate franchises for those that repeatedly fail to meet them.

New product launches are even more controlled, as here manufacturers will only supply dealers with the launch demo cars that they say are available.

Fortunately for European customers these cars are almost always manuals.

Regards

Scaff

"Now that's a contribution" (+rep)

I may be alone in this or it may be the Louisiana is the only state in the Union that still has real drivers but down here I never once had a hard time finding a manual transmission in any of the cars I tested (when I was in the process of buying my current car).

Maybe the lack of manual transmissions is just a matter of the state all of these deprived people come from?

 

[Jedi2016]

I have to say that this appears to be far less of an issue in the UK and Europe as a whole. manual transmission is still very, very much the norm.

That's one of the differences from over here, I'm afraid. That's why, over on your side of the pond, they're called "standard" transmission. Over here, it's the automatic that's becoming the "standard" in most cars.

When I bought my car, the salesman was pleased as punch when I said I was interested in a Mazda 3. But when I said I specifically wanted a manual, he had to ponder a bit to remember how many he had. He had two. Both were the same trim and color, basically two of the same car. Luckily for me, it had the options I wanted, didn't have the options I didn't want, and I even liked the color.

Honestly, I think it has to do with the American attitude in general. This might not be a popular statement, but I believe it to be true. We're getting lazy. Far too many people that are far too happy to turn even the most meaningless job over to a machine rather than do it themselves. An automatic transmission lets you chat on your cellphone or drink your double-mocha no-fat frikkin' latté while driving. Who wouldn't want one?

Driving, especially over here, is more about simply getting from Point A to Point B. People think about driving, and they think about the destination rather than the journey. Some of us actually like driving. When I was digging around town a couple weeks ago looking for a PS3, I knew I was going to be driving around town for a couple of hours at least. But I thought to myself "Even if I don't find one, at least I get to drive around for a while". I actually found that thought appealing. And short of construction-zone traffic, I actually had a good time, even without finding a PS3.

In regards to the topic in general, I hope that such "limitations" are only in the realm of hybrid putz-around-town cars. When I decide to buy a sports car, I don't want to be told that it's only available in automatic. Unless it's a frikkin' McMerc SLR or Veyron or something.

 

[Famine]

That's why, over on your side of the pond, they're called "standard" transmission.

Not true. We don't refer to manual gearboxes at all. We DO refer to automatics as "Oh! It's an automatic?!".

Manual is so the norm that the thought doesn't even occur to most of us that there's another way of doing things.

 

[YSSMAN]

I suggest we don't worry about which transmission is better and start worrying about what the future of the manual transmission may be?

Dealerships aren't ordering any manual trannys for customers where you guys live? Sounds like those dealers need to lose your business. When I bought my Corolla I had the choice of several different cars with manuals and autos.

1) The future? Well it will likely depend on where the jockeying takes the various companies in the near-future. If Toyota starts moving completely towards automatics I would suspect similar actions to be taken by some companies, but not all. Nissan seems to jumping on the CVT train, all while Honda has renewed interest in manual transmissions, but is reportedly taking a page from the VAG and BMW book and is looking to do a DSG/SMG-style box for their next set of vehicles. The Germans seem to be split just a bit, BMW and VAG going with their new F1-style setups, while Mercedes has been stalwart in maintaining their current policies over automatics... Very good automatic transmissions I may add...

My guess is that a lot of what will happen with manual transmissions is, like I said before, going to depend on what the American automakers do. There has been an increasing amount of manual transmissions available in many of the new American cars and small trucks, and although statistically speaking they generally are not equipped as often as the standard automatics, they are being optioned up far more often than ever before.

As noted, GM has been increasing the number of models available with manual transmissions, and has been doing a reasonably good job in making it a viable option that is worth considering. Ford has been doing similar things, however most of their manual transmissions go in the various Mustangs and Foci, however I have seen more Fusions with manual transmissions that I would have expected. As for Chyrsler, well, I'm not sure what they're doing. It has been my understanding that in the majority of their vehicles it is automatics only, outside of the Caliber and the Viper, but even in the case of the Caliber, the "good" engines are only offered with CVT automatics.

...I think one thing worth stressing is that automatic technology has caught up, for the most part, to where it needs to be where performance isn't lost when checking that option box. The more cogs added certainly helps, and the proliferation of 6-speed automatics should make things interesting in the near future...

---

On the question of the ratios of automatics to sticks at the dealers, it largely depends on what dealer you are at. The local Toyota dealer rarely has models with manual transmissions, same can be said for the Scions that they carry as well. Next door at Berger Chevrolet I've noticed the number of manual transmission models increase slightly, but were looking at numbers of maybe 1/5 on most of the models, however they have told me repeatedly that if I wanted a manual model, they could have one in less than a week. My Volkswagen dealer is usually split about 50/50 between manual and automatics, however the number of DSG transmissions are on the rise as more people become aware of how good of a trade-off it is.

...What is interesting is if you compare just one brand at various dealers around the city. If we were to look at Chevrolet dealers in Grand Rapids, you'd be more likely to find manuals at Berger than Kool or Classic Chevy, and for that I do not have a particularly good reason...

 

[Kylehnat]

Dealerships aren't ordering any manual trannys for customers where you guys live? Sounds like those dealers need to lose your buisness. When I bought my Corolla I had the choice of several different cars with manuals and autos.

Dealers order what they know they are going to sell. There's no consipiracy trying to phase out the manual transmission. Only 17% of folks are asking for it, so only 17% of the cars ordered are going to be manuals. I didn't have "trouble" finding my car per se, but had I waited another week to buy it, I would have. I would have had to drive to Portland (160 miles) or Spokane (280 miles) to find another black, sport trim, 5-speed, 5-door 3 (or pay an extra $500 to have a car from those locations delivered to me here).

 

[Sureboss]

Not true. We don't refer to manual gearboxes at all. We DO refer to automatics as "Oh! It's an automatic?!".

Manual is so the norm that the thought doesn't even occur to most of us that there's another way of doing things.

I don't think manual shifters would ever become a non-goer in the Uk/Europe. How many cars are manual 80-90% ?

Thanks for the explanations on how the Auto works btw @ Tornado and the other member(s) who contributed to it.

 

[Sage]

When I bought my car, the salesman was pleased as punch when I said I was interested in a Mazda 3. But when I said I specifically wanted a manual, he had to ponder a bit to remember how many he had. He had two.

Yeah, my salesman seemed a bit shocked himself (especially because he was offering me the automatic as a no-cost option – the dealer would absorb the price). But I absolutely insisted on it – why buy a fun car and skimp on one of the most fun parts of it?

Driving, especially over here, is more about simply getting from Point A to Point B. People think about driving, and they think about the destination rather than the journey. Some of us actually like driving. When I was digging around town a couple weeks ago looking for a PS3, I knew I was going to be driving around town for a couple of hours at least. But I thought to myself "Even if I don't find one, at least I get to drive around for a while". I actually found that thought appealing. And short of construction-zone traffic, I actually had a good time, even without finding a PS3.

Now that I live on-campus, I do the exact same thing. I only drive once a week now (to buy groceries), so I very purposely take the longest route possible and do a little sight-seeing. I’ve yet to find a proper mountain road though, which makes me feel like my suspension will atrophy.

 

[Tornado]

Just because I drive an automatic doesn't mean I'm not as much or even more of a driver than the chump who thinks he's a driver just because he has a manual transmission.

I really don't recall saying that. In fact, to reiterate, I was not showing any opinion at all on manual vs. automatic in that post; nor was I passing any judgement. I was merely asking what would get in the way of owning a manual. As you said, there are members who understand why an automatic transmission is a sacrifice, and I realise that it is one. I was trying to ask said "level-headed members" what would bring it about.
After the discussion with Duke I understand and know the answers to the questions that post was supposed to ask, so thank you again, Duke.

 

[Dave A]

Not true. We don't refer to manual gearboxes at all. We DO refer to automatics as "Oh! It's an automatic?!".

Manual is so the norm that the thought doesn't even occur to most of us that there's another way of doing things.

That's completely true, I've never once asked someone who's bought a new car if it was manual or automatic, every time I've assumed it was manual, and every time it has been. Likewise, I've never once been asked if I drive a manual or automatic, everyone just assumes it's manual unless otherwise stated. I know a couple of people with automatics, but the ratio is probably in the region of 98% of people that drive that I know have a manual, and only the remaining 2% have an auto, if that.

Here's a question, if the manual gearboxes do get pretty much phased out by American manufacturers, what's going to happen with any pushes to improve in Europe they're making. They won't succeed with a range of auto only cars. As has been said though, that's not happening, it's just an though about if it did and another reason why it won't.

 

[wfooshee]

Two differences in the preference that I'm seeing.

1. Convenience.

American generally commute, they don't drive, and to commute, you need an appliance. Those of us with sporting inclinations would never willingly give up the control over ratio selection that we like to have. However, with blue books insisting that the resale is higher for an automatic and with dealerships insisting on getting the premium carried by an automatic, and with amateur competition clubs like SCCA losing many of their autocross sites for one reason or another, it's getting harder for us to find a place to play, or a reason to justify the clutch.

2. Economics.

The automatic carries a price premium. Even if the dealer is willing to "work" that for you, he's getting it back somewhere else: low trade-in value, mfr incentive, whatever. He's not going to give away something he paid for, unless maybe the car's been on the lot too long and his floor plan is due.

Europeans, being actual thinkers and planners, see the price of the automatic and say, "Thank you, but no." Americans see the price and figure it adds "only" 20 bucks to their monthly payment, and say, "Absolutely. Wouldn't want anybody to think I couldn't afford it!"


As for the future of the manual, it's ALWAYS been an American trend to automate everything. The lights come on automatically, the high beams switch on and (hopefully) off automatically, the climate control tries to hold an unknown temperature rather than just blowing hot or cold air at you, the top folds by itself when you push a button, the wipers know when it's raining, and on and on like that. For most Americans, selecting your own gears is a chore, and to be avoided at all costs. When trying to teach a stick shift, I've heard over and over, "How do I know which gear to use?" It's like a golf student asking about which club: you do it for a bit and it's readily apparent. But it's too bothersome, and embarrassing besides: "You couldn't afford the real one, with an automatic?"

If the manual dies here, it will be "justified" some way or another by the marketing departments of the major manufacturers trying to convince us we're "better" than someone who settles for a manual. Why do it yourself, when we've got one that does it better than you ever could hope to do?

Maybe someday they'll talk about this the way we talk about manual spark advance on Model Ts. I hope not.

 

[1X83Z]

I'm not going to say that you take no pleasure in your driving, as that is obviously not the case. I AM going to say that what you don't understand is that operating the clutch and shifter is one of the greater pleasures of driving for those of us who do it well, and it's obvious that this IS the case.

Your entire post is based on the idea that I don't or can't drive manual. If you think, based on my previous and obviously tongue-in-cheek comments, that I have never driven or do not know how to drive a manual car, you're wrong.

Obviously you prefer your auto. Tell us why, instead of calling us posers, claiming it's faster, whatever. We're telling you why we like the stick shift, you're calling us names.

 

[land sea air]

I think manuals are here to stay, the numbers may get smaller but some people will always ask for manuals.

 

[harrytuttle]

No one should have been unable to see this being a jihad from both sides...

Is it an automatic, or an SMG? It can't be an automatic and similar to the M5's SMG. Since when does any company need to build an 8-speed transmission to be on a par with any car? How is it significant that the LS460 has more than one gear?

It's the one-upmanship Lexus has been playing against the 7-speed German transmissions. It's transparent crap. Adding gears could only make sense on high-performance cars, not luxo-barges or commuter cars, something Toyota has spent the last decade ridding themselves of (LF-A and FT-HS inlcluded).

This seems more like the dribble you'd find in some newspaper, not an automotive-focused publication.

The text sounds more like Toyota-based marketing than an actual article. And it's an American publication anyway, probably home to the highest percentage of automatic transmissions (but definitely home to the laziest people). There's a fine line between making the car easier to drive and removing the need for a driver altogether. All companies are moving towards this direction, and Toyota is definitely leading the charge. I'm firmly in the camp of "more involvement is better", but then again I actually enjoy driving. I think within 10 years we'll see manual transmissions as the more expensive options on obscure British sports cars...and that's it.

I understand that automatics & SMG-alikes have their place, and can be much faster, but that doesn't make it a more involving drive. Ten minutes in an Elise S1 after an E46 M3 w/SMG will show you that.

...I really don't find it surprising to hear about Toyota driving away from the idea of a manual. They've already managed to suck all of the involvement out of the drive, they don't have much less to destroy.

Yeah...yeah, that kind of says it all right there.

 

[niky]

I am absolutely 100% sure both Ford and Mazda would be very interested to hear your story and based on face value, absolutely outraged with the conduct of the dealership.

I've never been to a car lot where a dealer refused to offer a manual transmission to a car that comes with a manual (as an option or as stardard equipment).

Sadly, our market is so small that when they don't offer manuals, that means there are none. What's sad is the only manual "family" car I would consider now is a Focus 1.6... simply because nothing else in my price range in this severely tax-constricted market... base 235hp "Rexes" cost about $35k here... actually tickles my funnybone the right way. The only mainstream "compact" that'll offer a decent engine and a shifter is the Civic. Terrific engine. Terrific shifter. Horrible tires, suspension and steering. The Corolla offers a stick, too, but with the 1.6 only, not the 1.8... while the 1.6 Corolla actually has a lot of urge, they don't offer the type of suspension I want on local ones, either.

The Focus and Mazda3 are the other way around. Terrific steering and suspension (still cheap tires), but horrible gearboxes... and only the severely underpowered Focus 1.6 variant gets the stick.

I have to say that this appears to be far less of an issue in the UK and Europe as a whole. manual transmission is still very, very much the norm. Certainly I don't see that changing for a long time, as smaller cars are still bought almost exclusively in manual form, as an auto can add between £500 and £1,500 to the cost of a car its a very pricey option indeed.

The subject of what cars a dealer gets to use as demo's is also an interesting one. While I can't speak for the US, in Europe manufactures have a huge influence in this area. Setting the standards that a dealer operates too, including exactly what demo models are available for customers. Now while they can't insist that dealers keep these exact models in stock, they can (and do) offer significant bonus payments to dealers who meet the right 'dealer standards' and can terminate franchises for those that repeatedly fail to meet them.

New product launches are even more controlled, as here manufacturers will only supply dealers with the launch demo cars that they say are available.

Fortunately for European customers these cars are almost always manuals.

Regards

Scaff

I'm hoping the "Americanization" of our local market will finally start to reverse itself this year. Many manufacturers are losing customers simply because the traditional torque-converter autos they offer give crappy mileage in traffic (no matter what the EPA highway figures say, real world usage is always a pain for traditional ATs). And mileage has been on everyone's mind since the last gasoline price scare. I'm hoping that when they finally release the Focus TDCi here, it'll come with a six-speed stick.

While CVT does seem to be encroaching on the lower-powered end of the market, the high price for such technology means that cheap car buyers will be able to experience many of the joys and frustrations of MTs for decades to come.

 

[Kent]

Just wanted to mention that I drive 25+miles to and from school at 70+mph.
That, combined with daily driving of the "normal" kind...

My automatic transmission Corolla S averages (with all driving included) 32+mpg.
That's not highway or city, that's everything combined. 👍

Not bad for an automatic running through town and cruising the interstate for roughly 240 miles at more than 70mph (per tank).

 

[Sureboss]

That's about average, maybe a bit below. Size of engine? Diesel?

My dad gets about 49 out his Seat Altea 1.9 TDi (about 110 bhp) up to mid 50s on long motorway driving.

 

[Kent]

That's about average, maybe a bit below. Size of engine? Diesel?

My dad gets about 49 out his Seat Altea 1.9 TDi (about 110 bhp) up to mid 50s on long motorway driving.

1.8 unleaded automatic at 70+ MPH (125hp/125ft.lb/1188kg).

From what I understand,
Gas efficiency can suffer up to 10% per 10mph over 55.
Also, is that 50s in KPH or MPH?
If you're dad is driving diesel a only 50 something, I wouldn't be too suprised with those numbers.
None the less, those are great mileage numbers. 👍

 

[1X83Z]

Also, is that 50s in KPH or MPH?

Since he's in the UK, it's in MPH. You chose the wrong conversion. He's looking at UK gallons to your US gallons; that's why it's so different.

 

[YSSMAN]

With my '96 Jetta Wolfsburg (2.0L 8V I4) and the manual, I've been able to average between 27-29 MPG (32-35 UK MPG) of combined city and highway driving. My best overall was on a trip to Chicago at 33 MPG (40 UK MPG), and it could have been higher if I wouldn't have driven through the city nearly as much as I did.

By contrast, my Grandmother's Cabrio with the same engine and the four-speed automatic does slightly less, usually about 25-27 MPG around town (30-32 UK MPG), but much of that may be due to the slightly higher weight of her car, and the fact that she uses cruise control wherever she goes.

...Most cases, manual transmission cars are going to be slightly more efficient overall than automatics, but with smarter programing, automatics have been able to tighten the gap between the two, and in some cases match it (see VW's DSG)...

 

[Dave A]

I get a bit less than that in my Bora, it averages around the 28-30mpg mark (UK).

 

[YSSMAN]

Is that with the 1.8T or the 2.0 8V? As I understand it, the 1.8T is "supposed" to get a few extra MPG here and there, particularly with the later 6-speed models, but the exchange of having to run premium has kept me away (for now).

...I've been looking into a late-model 1.8T Jetta/Bora and doing a Bora kit on it (a guy in Ada has one, pretty nice), but money is a problem...

 

[Dave A]

It's the 2.3 V5.

 

[Duke]

And now, it's not as fast either. End of story.

That's not always true - in fact it's not even mostly true. And in cases that it is true, I refer you to my post about old Alfas, as well as my post in this thread about the drive being about the drive.

My acoustic guitar doesn't sound anywhere near as loud as my electric guitar does... yet, oddly enough, sometimes I still feel like playing the acoustic, even though I could turn the electric down.

Now, we're talking about street cars and driving for pleasure here. The car that is going to be the most fun to drive, overall, is the one that is most engaging and involving. In many of our cases, that means a manual transmission.

If we were talking about racing, when 100% of the point is to win, then without question, I'd go with whichever transmission made the car fastest, as long as it was legal by the class rules.

Ironic considering I didn't say that [people who want a manual trans are stupid], nor do I think that.

Umm, I beg to differ:

I sort of feel like people who want clutches even when clutchless is faster are posers. I know that opinion won't be well received here, but I think it's accurate.

I also find it funny that you seem to think automatics offer no driving pleasure, and that I have no idea how to get pleasure from driving.

Again, I beg to differ:

I consider [my wife] an enthusiastic driver - it took us quite some time to find a car for her that had enough 'fun factor' to make her like it. That factor just didn't include having 3 pedals and extra arm motion. So why should I make her do something that means she enjoys driving less?

Just like Doug's opinion - I don't take any exception at all to him wanting an ATX.

So please do point out where we said that you were stupid for wanting an automatic transmission car, or that you could never have fun driving one. In fact I gave a clear example of someone that I know personally who I know enjoys driving a lot, yet prefers an automatic. I also clearly pointed out that I held no grudge for your choice of transmission.

It's just that you never seem to understand why people would consider disagreeing with you.

 

[TB]

By contrast, my Grandmother's Cabrio with the same engine and the four-speed automatic does slightly less, usually about 25-27 MPG around town (30-32 UK MPG), but much of that may be due to the slightly higher weight of her car, and the fact that she uses cruise control wherever she goes.

Are you saying that using cruise lowers you MPG? If anything, I think it should go up. In my Gran Prix at 42mph, it would run at around 2200rpm. If I set the cruise, it grabbed another gear and dropped to around 1600 (all numbers are approximate, but the principle is the same).

 

[Sage]

On level ground cruise control might be better, but even on the smallest undulations it always seems to perform worse, since it’s always compensating for elevation changes a second too late.

I’m surprised that cruise control would affect what gear your car chooses though – I’ve driven my dad’s auto Tacoma with cruise control, and it doesn’t seem to make a difference gear-wise.

 

[TB]

On level ground cruise control might be better, but even on the smallest undulations it always seems to perform worse, since it’s always compensating for elevation changes a second too late.

This is ND. There are no elevation changes.

I’m surprised that cruise control would affect what gear your car chooses though – I’ve driven my dad’s auto Tacoma with cruise control, and it doesn’t seem to make a difference gear-wise.

I'm sure it is because I was right on the cusp of the next gear that it did that, not necessarily because of the cruise.

 

[Duke]

On level ground cruise control might be better, but even on the smallest undulations it always seems to perform worse, since it’s always compensating for elevation changes a second too late.

Yes! On even slightly hilly terrain, it will back off the throttle on the downslopes, then have to add quite a bit of gas back on the upslopes. A human driver on the throttle would keep more-or-less constant throttle, allowing the car to build up momentum on the down side and then using that to maintain some speed up the other side without adding throttle.

The automatic on my wife's TSX is relatively active, and not afraid to hold lower gears. I'll have to see if it upshifts when I turn on the cruise.

 

[Metar]

Probably, the absolute death of manual transmissions will be when Caterham starts offering their models only in Auto.


And now seriously: As one who doesn't drive yet, I don't have any opinion concerning the advantages, from the driver's point of view, of a manual or automatic. I can only comment on the market-situation in Israel, which, in many cases, is a miniature copy of American markets. Cars, only partially: While most cars sold are still hatchbacks and sedans (SUVs are generally too expensive), the success or failure of a car in the Israeli markets depends on two things:

• If the car has an Automatic, and how good that one is
• If the car comes with a 1.6l engine

Both of these are products of the market-situation: In a place where 60% of the car-market is ruled by leasing-companies, all they want is one thing: A standart, option-less, same-formula car which will easilly be sold. Which means, once a year or two, almost the whole country switches cars. 2002, the whole country was flooded with 'Campagne Gold' Mazda 323s ("Lantis"). Now, every 4th car you see is a Mazda 3 (mostly the, in my opinion uglier, extended-hatch version). When the Citroen BX was new, leasing-companies liked it - and it was sold so much, it still wasn't beaten by any car to this day! Subaru DLs, Leones, and all generations of the Impreza were popular leasing-cars.
Now, if they want to sell, they need a car that meets a certain standart which the Israeli consumer has engraved into his mind: "A family-car must have a 1.6l engine and be an Automatic". So, they take the most minimum-spec cars that still meets this requirement, order as many as possible with the best-selling colors (Grey and white tones), and mass-market those.

I've wandered a little off-topic, so let me get back: Israeli consumers have accepted Automatics as an intergral part of driving so early, that in the '90s, when a high-ranked official from Peugeot came to visit the country following the huge success of the 306 (Leasing-company's darling, again), he saw the sales-charts: 90% of the 306s sold were automatics (and we're talking about a relatively-small hatchback, mind you). Seeing as most of europe considers driving automatics as something like a handicap (at least, that was the explanation given), he responded: "I know you Israelis have wars going on - but so many invalides?"

So yes, by now around 95% of the cars are manual. In fact, quite a few models are no longer imported as manuals! Most used-car guides and dealer-lists, rather than specifically mentioning automatics, have made the opposite - Manuals are the "special" option.

Then, apart from most of the population, there are those who get manuals as a thing. We did, for example - first off, the 1.4l Peugeot 306 wasn't sold with an Automatic. Secondly, all our other cars were manuals because they're cheaper, and both parents drove stick. Yet, from a passenger's point of view, I still prefer stick - most of the automatics I've been in were quite noisy and stupid (don't mention Peugeot's Robotic box - it was lamer than GT4's AI) - wrong gears, odd behaviour, and the owners themselves complained. But then again, I'm used to someone doing the driving for me, so I'm getting a little picky... I dunno, I imagine I'd be bloody annoyed if a stupid Automatic would intefere with the 'flow' in a mountain road...