Engine Swap / Drivetrain Swap

[E38]

I don't get why so many people consider engine swaps unrealistic. The GT series already lets you turbo charge some previously naturally aspirated engines and that process would be a lot more difficult than some of the engine swaps mentioned in here.

In many cases if you are modifying a car for performance (which is what GT is about) then sticking with the factory engine would be pointless.

For example I am currently building up a Fiat Uno for some trackday and hillclimb fun. To get more power I swapped in a 1.4 Turbo engine from an Uno turbo in place of the 1.0 original. The swap took less than a day (including gearbox, ECU and wiring) and tripled the horsepower. Building the existing engine or turboing it would have been 100x harder and more expensive.

 

[Heath_1]

599 is front engine. not mid.

 

[Mr. Apex]

If engine and drivetrain swaps are included that will be a MASSIVE disappointment for me.
I would rather have rewind than that gimmick.

Well, then don't use it.

 

[nasanu]

If a "feature" makes it in, and you so hate it, don't use it. Don't bother it and it shall have no legitimacy in bothering you.

So ignoring the feature will make everything ok when you are coming last in every race to fantasy cars? Engine swaps effect gameplay and thus can not be simply ignored.

Why not give the cars guns? It can be done with less effort than an engine swap. Just ignore me when I shoot your tyres out into the first turn.

 

[E38]

So ignoring the feature will make everything ok when you are coming last in every race to fantasy cars? Engine swaps effect gameplay and thus can not be simply ignored.

Why not give the cars guns? It can be done with less effort than an engine swap. Just ignore me when I shoot your tyres out into the first turn.

Reductio ad absurdum. Yes, because fitting guns is the same as engine swaps.

How often do you see professional race teams fitting guns to their cars? Now, how often do you see engine swapped cars racing at all levels from club level through to professional racing?

 

[Griffith500]

So ignoring the feature will make everything ok when you are coming last in every race to fantasy cars? Engine swaps effect gameplay and thus can not be simply ignored.

Why not give the cars guns? It can be done with less effort than an engine swap. Just ignore me when I shoot your tyres out into the first turn.

The hard way is to ensure that there are no "super swaps" (e.g. the 4WD Viper in Forza 3) that trounce all. The easier way, and there have been many suggestions already in this thread, is to limit the kind of modifications for online races, on a per-"server" basis (or however hosting will work) - such that if you set up a private room (for tournaments with fiercely enforced rules, for example) you can have engine swaps, and guns if you so choose. I don't imagine PD would now be so stupid as to allow the kind of domination seen in Forza 3 - benefits of a longer development cycle, eh?

So, ignore engine swaps in single player, and stay away from the engine swap servers online. Simple.

 

[Dave A]

Mounting an engine that won't fit in a car without mods is realistic? Especially without a tranny that will match to the engine. All in all its not realistic, unless all components are thoroughly introduced. Weight distribution would have to also be accounted for.

Fair enough, I wasn't sure if you were saying engine swaps themselves were unrealistic, which they aren't, but I agree with what you just said 👍.

599 is front engine. not mid.

Technically it's mid-engined, though it's much more commonly referred to as front engined and some call it front-mid engined. A mid engined car has the engine between the axles. Whether it's behind or in front of the driver is irrelevant as far as the technical definition goes. The general acceptance though is that the engine should be behind the driver, though the term does tend to be commonly limited to those with the engine behind the driver.

So ignoring the feature will make everything ok when you are coming last in every race to fantasy cars? Engine swaps effect gameplay and thus can not be simply ignored.

Why not give the cars guns? It can be done with less effort than an engine swap. Just ignore me when I shoot your tyres out into the first turn.

Poor analogy, I'm sure you would be able to enjoy single player just as much without them as with them, online I would imagine we will be given the options of setting up a race and there would be no reason not to have a tab that allows, restricts or eliminates engine and drive train swaps in that race.

Some people don't like being forced to race the FIAT 500 and other low powered and slow cars to complete the game, the game will never please everyone completely but the more diverse it gets the more people it caters for in more ways. As long as it remains realistic then I'm fine with it.

 

[Brainhulk]

Hmmm, I would create a Caparo T1 with a bugatti engine swap and awd conversion.

mmmm, yeeeeeessss

 

[SavageEvil]

I'm sure that MR layout means the engine is between axles, but more towards the rear as the driver cockpit is either just ahead of the engine or to the side, for driveablility sake it's always just ahead of the engine. The engine can also be partially above the rear axle(traction) and still fit the MR profile. The 599 is classified as a FR car according to Ferrari.

Engine swaps if in GT will most likely never cross brands, so NSX with ferrari engines will not be seen. Rules to engine swapping must be adhered to, if an engine is to big to fit, you can't install it ingame, but in real life they will have the entire car body altered to make the engine fit, thus changing the car entirely. No longer the same car, only in name and shape somewhat. GT doesn't have a works mode that i'm aware of that allows for complete vehicular overhaul to meet racing requirements...that might be an interesting idea none the less.

To the guy above me, that was funny. Not in a million years, but backs up my point about engine not fitting and having the retool the body to make it fit. T1 Caparo would look like a Top Fuel dragster with that W16 put on, assuming they could somehow utilize a body well enough to house that weighty beast.

 

[GDII]

I don't get why so many people consider engine swaps unrealistic. The GT series already lets you turbo charge some previously naturally aspirated engines and that process would be a lot more difficult than some of the engine swaps mentioned in here.

In many cases if you are modifying a car for performance (which is what GT is about) then sticking with the factory engine would be pointless.

For example I am currently building up a Fiat Uno for some trackday and hillclimb fun. To get more power I swapped in a 1.4 Turbo engine from an Uno turbo in place of the 1.0 original. The swap took less than a day (including gearbox, ECU and wiring) and tripled the horsepower. Building the existing engine or turboing it would have been 100x harder and more expensive.

I have helped put a 2.0litre SR20DE from a Nissain Silvia into a 1984 Toyota Starlet. It had a 1.3litre in it before. That involved cutting out the firewall and a lot of the gearbox tunnel just to get the engine to fit and the gearbox was really big.

That was worth all the hard work but bolt in situations like your Uno are much easier. The car has 3-4x more power and so much more torque. Car only weighs 850-900kg.

 

[Griffith500]

Hmmm, I would create a Caparo T1 with a bugatti engine swap and awd conversion.

mmmm, yeeeeeessss

Haha, that's probably precisely the kind of swap that should be avoided! That thing would practically be like the Dodge Tomahawk!

I assume you mean the Veyron "W"16, right? That thing weighs close to 400 kg; the Menard V8 in the T1 weighs a bit under 120 kg. That would mean your Caparo-Bugatti would weigh in the region of 750 kg instead of 470 kg and have 1001 bhp instead of 575 bhp. That's 1334 bhp / tonne instead of 1223 bhp / tonne - not much of an improvement. The handling would be ruined, of course.

I think / hope / bet a simple turbo job would be better in this case, although also tricky.

 

[TheCracker]

^ Added to that, the Veyron engine would in no way fit under the rear bodywork of the Caparo. The Caparo engine also performs as the rear half of the chassis, it's a stressed member and supports the rear suspension. You can't just go bolting suspension onto any old engine, it's got to be specifically designed to do that.

I like the idea of engine swaps. Less so drivetrain swaps - i don't think the full consequences of doing so could be realistically modelled for so many cars and combinations.

I'd also prefer the engine swaps to be based on what would be realistically achievable.

 

[loki993]

Short answer, no. Long answer, nooooooooooooooo. I doubt the massive engine from the 599 could fit into the engine bay of an NSX, where there is already very little extra space.

Not to mention why would you ruin a perfectly good 599 to swap the motor into a NSX anyway. Ill take the 599 over the NSX 10 times out of 10.

I have helped put a 2.0litre SR20DE from a Nissain Silvia into a 1984 Toyota Starlet. It had a 1.3litre in it before. That involved cutting out the firewall and a lot of the gearbox tunnel just to get the engine to fit and the gearbox was really big.

That was worth all the hard work but bolt in situations like your Uno are much easier. The car has 3-4x more power and so much more torque. Car only weighs 850-900kg.

Some swaps are harder than others.

I like the idea of engine swaps. Less so drivetrain swaps - i don't think the full consequences of doing so could be realistically modelled for so many cars and combinations.

I'd also prefer the engine swaps to be based on what would be realistically achievable.

Agreed add that's probably the hardest thing, getting the cars to act realistically with different engines, weight distributions etc etc. I dont think we can realistically expect the design team to research all the engine swaps to see which ones are feasible and which ones are not and then research how the particular swapped cars will act with the different motors and drivetrains.

 

[Imari]

I dunno. Say they just keep it to engines by the same manufacturer that made the car. They could probably quite easily fire off an email to Nissan or whoever asking "What engines do you make that would fit in a Sentra engine bay with minimal modifications?". Some engineer will know the answer, and tell them. Plug in the weight of the engine and a decent approximation of it's weight distribution and the job's done.

Drivetrain I agree would be tricky. There's all sorts of interacting stuff going on there. But just an engine shouldn't be tough at all.

 

[mazdaman]

So did they confirm this feature?

 

[BoryZPL]

Any confirmed infomation about engine swaps?

 

[Griffith500]

Any confirmed infomation about engine swaps?

None, as of yet.

 

[maxpontiac]

So did they confirm this feature?

I don't believe PD ever will either.

 

[FlourescentBlak]

I don't want a drivetrain or engine swap as it makes your choice in car less important if you can just change it around. If they included either I'm sure at some point I would use it.

 

[tiapavo]

I don't want engine or drivetrain swaps at all, they do not belong in Gran Turismo series heritage and game philosophy. Yep, is 100% my opinion. I don' want to play tuning game, I want to simulate a car, not a engine of a car with the frame of another car.

 

[captaincrunch24]

I don't believe in engine swaps. If you buy something like a Toyota Sera and don't think it's fast enough, either go to GT Auto to upgrade it or buy a different car. In my opinion, swapping out a car's engine is like swapping out its soul and it's personality. Tuning an engine is different; it's the same personality, only better.

 

[Sephy]

I agree with swaps from only the same company with one exception. The LS1. That engine has been put into everything in existence and I would like the ability to do the same

 

[FlourescentBlak]

In my opinion, swapping out a car's engine is like swapping out its soul and it's personality. Tuning an engine is different; it's the same personality, only better.

Agreed 👍

 

[analog]

In my opinion, swapping out a car's engine is like swapping out its soul and it's personality. Tuning an engine is different; it's the same personality, only better.

Tuning a car is often also changing the "personality" ( or better put its characteristics ) of a car quite drastically, sometimes even to the same extend as an engine swap.
Putting a big Turbo in the Tuning Shop on a N/A car is just as radical in its implications than in some cases putting a V6 engine into an inline-4 car for example.
It happens in real life ( both by amateurs or professional tuning companies ) and therefore I think that within certain limitations ( only engines of the same manufacturer perhaps or only those engines which in real life could be interchangeable, and perhaps certain car should be excluded from either receiving or donating an engine ) it could be perfectly suitable for a simulation game like GT.
You can always choose not to use it but it would be very nice in my opinion to have this option.
And all this talk about GT-philosophy, if it's in GT it's part of GT's philosophy ( which frankly could be anything ).

 

[Dave A]

I don't want engine or drivetrain swaps at all, they do not belong in Gran Turismo series heritage and game philosophy. Yep, is 100% my opinion. I don' want to play tuning game, I want to simulate a car, not a engine of a car with the frame of another car.

In that case let's get rid of all the tuning, at the end of the day your only interested in the simulation of the car and it's only ever simulated best when it's stock.

I don't believe in engine swaps. If you buy something like a Toyota Sera and don't think it's fast enough, either go to GT Auto to upgrade it or buy a different car. In my opinion, swapping out a car's engine is like swapping out its soul and it's personality. Tuning an engine is different; it's the same personality, only better.

You can buy cars with different engines irl, for example the Ford Focus, it comes with many different engine options. Therefore to say that my (real life) Focus's souls is it's 1.6 litre engine is balls, because I could have had a 1.4, 1.5, 1.8 or 2.0. To be honest, the upgrades we can already do pretty much mean we've swapped the cars engine by the time we've fully tuned it. Byh doing an engine swap you're just swapping the whole thing in one go, and not necessarily for something with the same discplacment and cylinder.

Engine swaps happen in real life, simple as. They are common in motorsport and in high performance tuning projects. As long as the swaps are based on realistic possibilities then I don't see the problem, we can swap everything else including the parts of the engine in individual tuning stages already. If engine swaps are in the game and you don't want to do one, don't do one, not difficult really. Just like the option to change the cars wheels and colour is there, if you don't want to that, don't do it. If someone else gets enjoyment from it then let them.

 

[SCUD77]

I would like to be able to put a bike engine in a classic mini,
Also very popular is the impreza engine in a classic beetle or the porsche engine into a vw camper.

 

[King Swine]

Complete drivetrain swaps would be awesome, though they would need to be done with reality in mind.Many have mentioned FR to MR swaping. I dont believe this should be allowed in gt5(if included of course) because the balance of the car would no longer be true to it's manufactured specifications and will not handle like the original chasis. Engine and drivetrain swaps should be limited to relation of the companies. IE:Honda=Acura,Nissan=Infinite,Toyota=Lexus.That being said I would love to see this feature implemented in the game as long as they have theyre own play mode seperate from stock spec's.

 

[danjama]

My philosophy is that if it can be done in real life, why not in game...

 

[FlourescentBlak]

If implemented realistically then I'm all for it. Unfortunatley most games don't do it realistically. I have faith that if PD did it it would be pretty accurate but I would rather their time spent elsewhere.

More premium cars>engine drivetrain swap

I'm all about the completion of premiums to the GT series.

 

[danjama]

I agree. Personally, I'm about 90% sure engine swaps won't be in. It's just too much work for a game with as much detail as this.