- 17,353
- United Kingdom
IIRC when we English wanted to demonstrate against fuel prices, we just formed really long queues outside petrol stations. #TheEnglishWay
Europe - The Official Thread
- Thread starter Touring Mars
- 2,133 comments
- 119,690 views
- 5,051
- Netherlands
The dutch do demonstrate a lot though. These mostly are peaceful and through legal means. Most recent "violent" demonstration has been about Black Pete (like every year). With all whats going on in France, the right to demonstrate is still important in the freedom of speech. Violence however is something that never should be condoned.
- 31,714
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
We are talking about massive demonstrations. Not the 50-100 special people rallies we see every other week.
edit,
We do have violence though, but that happens when you have football crazies trying to persuade their clubs into changes.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Apparently, some of the French riot police are taking off their helmets in solidarity with some Yellow Vest protestors. Videos are up on YT but they're in French so I won't put up a link. Not a good development for Macron. Might explain his stance on wanting an EU army.
- 2,476
- Paris
- Milouse
- Milouse
Maybe serious enough to trigger a political crisis. The reason for that is that the yellow vest tend to radicalize as they say they don't have what they want (this goes well beyond gas taxes), but are at the same time unable to be organized enough to have the government talk to them nor to express clearly what they want. They "elected" 8 representatives last week, in a suspicious way, and as they were invited to meet the prime minister a few days later, only two show up, one of them leaving before the meeting after being refused to stream the meeting live on social media. The single list of things that formerly emerged seems to have been written by a group of 12 years old teenagers. They also shows little respect to democracy and display totalitarian behavior on their sitting (like blocking drivers until they "join" them by putting their yellow vest on them). It also appears that fake news get a lot of traction among them. And, last but not least, since they are angry (french national hobby) and the poorest ones rightly grabs compassion, they have a very high approval rate in the population.
The yellow vest were around 130,000 accross France this saturday (the population is below 70M). It's a permanent sitting on roads since November 17th, with demonstrations every Saturday. The yellow vest weren't that numerous in Paris. But...
The problem with any recent demonstration in France is that whatever it is for, it drags some group of people who doesn't have much, if anything to do with the demonstrators issues.
Here we had three groups, operating with a similar and known (by authorities) schedule: extreme right early morning, the anarchist around mid-day (those two fighting each others when crossing) which are usually made of international squads. Then, when comes the night, the third group made of young males from "banlieue" comes to loot what they can, destroying any state symbol for bonus point.
Why this feeling of laissez-faire? Because of the death of a demonstrator in 1986 who became a martyr, leading to the resignation of a minister.
As for what actually happened during this demonstrations regarding the impressive images:
-Police fired a lot of grenades (gaz and flash), nearly 10,000 according to the police. i heard explosions and police/firetruck sirens all the day from the morning to late evening (2 am).
- I have a walk in the city the evening in the rather limited affected areas. There's some glass on the ground, and some sporadic destruction trace (traffic light down, trees protection removed, shop glasses broken, cars burned - but a minority, and they have already been removed). Our "high" taxes pays for the city public services who did a wonderful job today *sigh*. Note that i don't complain about taxes myself.
- A Paris Hotels group claims that they saw a 50% cancellation rate. Which is sad because the violences are limited to the Saturday and in specific areas, like if it was a party.
Macron polls are low, but not that low if you consider the political landscape in France and compare with the previous presidents. Also, the broad question doesn't say much when it comes to actual election - the most recent poll i red still shows Macron ahead of his opponents).
I'm totally agree with the testosterone explanation.
As for the gas price, they are also seen as way to reduce oil consumption and country dependence to it (a sovereignty matters that also explains why France produces +70% of its electricity with Nuclear power). The problem with the small tax rise is that it added to a recent high oil price peak.
Last edited:
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Protests continue today. Students are walking out of some schools to be teargassed and pepper sprayed. Hundreds of Paramedics gathered near Place de la Concorde in support of the protest.
- 2,476
- Paris
- Milouse
- Milouse
The private ambulance protest is specific to a change of the law regarding their activity.
Some students are indeed organizing to enter in the protestation. With their own revendications. That will only add to the chaos. Meanwhile, Yellow Vest that used to emerge at some point as leaders explain, one after another, that they're receiving loads of death threats from other yellow vest who don't want leaders. Rationality is not part of the equation anymore, and France is sat on a ticking bomb expiring next Saturday.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 2,476
- Paris
- Milouse
- Milouse
Or, worded correctly: the citizens decide who hold the State, the State take money from the wealthier than average to redistribute to the ordinary citizens. The ordinary citizen still sees wealthier than him and thinks that he gives more than what he get, despite both the laws and the data proving otherwise. He then kicks the State holders. Rince and repeat.
- 10% of the French taxpayers pays for 70% of the income tax (DGFiP,2017), and no other tax goes in the other way, even by a fraction.
- 74% of the French think they pay more than what they receive (Ipsos,2013).
Madame G. ?
Edit: i feel a bit uncomfortable just after having posted this, seeing it next to my portrait image..
SestoScudo
(Banned)
- 3,000
- Australia
- Decepticon 47
Google is honouring Edith Cavell. Were the Germans right to execute her.
I feel like its worth a discussion here.
I feel like its worth a discussion here.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
It's a sad case but she was aiding enemy combatants in returning to their home countries. It's hard to see that any other country would have acted differently at the time. Things might be different today but only if the details were likely to become public.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
After saying for a month that he had no plans to back down from increasing fuel prices to combat global warming, Macron has now surrendered to the mob and decreed a "temporary" suspension of the gas tax. One protest leader has called it a crumb and vowed to fight on. According to reports, demonstrations continued today:
https://www.apnews.com/ea207765fb014064a4b989d0d6ae08cb
https://www.apnews.com/ea207765fb014064a4b989d0d6ae08cb
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 29,986
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
I hate to ask but is there some French humour I'm missing here? Why is it "Total" and not "total"
Total SA is a French petroleum company.
UKMikey
Premium
- 18,452
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
I hate to ask but is there some French humour I'm missing here? Why is it "Total" and not "total"
Total S.A. is a French fuel company.
[EDIT] Sorry, tree'd.
It's not good for their nation's Elf.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Keef
Premium
- 25,166
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
So do y'all think that international leaders are making deals with Trump just to bide their time until he's out of office, and then when we get a sensible president they can actually renegotiate legitimate deals? Kinda seems like they're just going along with the charade at this point. Surely Trump can't actually ruin relationships with an entire government, but merely with himself.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
There have been some curious forces set loose in the current world. Social media, populism, and a digital gush of many and more secrets from Wikileaks through Snowden and others all the way to who did what to Khashoggi. All leaders have been thrown off their stroke in adapting to the new reality. The Russians-under-the-bed fears and investigations could change things even further. IMHO, the ride of change is not over.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
I think that’s what the New Democrat majority Congress should do. If they impeach trump they’ll end up with a religious nut in Mike Pence. Just ride it out and try to limit Trumps power till 2020. I am fairly certain he won’t run ever again after this disastrous term. His main legacy after leaving office will probably being an even greater deficit then during Obama’s time in office.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
You skipped a President. One who racked up$9 trillion in debt.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Chances are said leaders will be gone before Trump is, there is a shift happening.
Like the last 6 or so presidents then?
The deficit has increased after each president since the 70s, Clinton got a few years of surplus in the late 90s tech bubble, but that disappeared quicker then it came after the recession soon after and even with the surplus the total deficit was higher then what it was before he took office.
Last edited:
Keef
Premium
- 25,166
- Dayton, OH
- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
The rumblings are that Pence is involved with the investigations going on and that they've both done things worthy of getting themselves removed. Whether they actually get removed or not depends on a lot of things, but we know there are some very senior people in our government in some very serious trouble right now, so much so that a witness coughed up so much information he dealed himself out of a felony with a zero-punishment recommendation.
- 29,986
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
I think the Europe perspective is that it's almost cathartic to know that the USA is as bent as any other country; much like those countries in East Europe which also have crooked officials with ties to Russia they like to keep quiet about.
In a way I feel like putting a shoulder around the United States and comforting them on being as fallible as the rest of the world.
In a way I feel like putting a shoulder around the United States and comforting them on being as fallible as the rest of the world.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
Read again. You didnt refresh.
Last edited:
