- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Refresh? I quoted your post as it was at the time I quoted it. I shouldn't have to doublecheck it for changes later on.
Europe - The Official Thread
- Thread starter Touring Mars
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- 5,051
- Netherlands
Well the post was corrected within a minute after posting. But you do with it what pleases you.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I'm not a mind reader mate.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
It's only a matter of time before they storm the Bastille.
To put French (violent) protests in perspective we are not seeing a lot of new things here from the French. They like to excersize their right to protest and is part of their culture.
They invented the word "revolution". I hope the yellow vests and the government can find a way to make a compromise and let peace return.
- 2005 – 2005 French riots, a series of riots that occurred in the suburbs of Paris and other French cities involving the burning of cars and public buildings at night.
- 2006 – 2006 youth protests in France, riots resulting from opposition to a measure set to deregulate labour in France.
- 2007 – 2007 Villiers-le-Bel riots, riots in the Val-d'Oise department that began following the deaths of two teenagers whose motorcycle collided with a police vehicle.
- 2007–09 – 2007–09 university protests in France, protest movements resulting from several reform projects under Minister for Higher Education and Research Valérie Pécresse.
- 2009 – 2009 French riots, a series of riots that occurred on Bastille Day (14 July) in the commune of Montreuil, an eastern suburb area of Paris.
- 2013 – 2013 Trappes riots, riots that broke out after police arrested a man who assaulted a police officer who tried to check the identity of his wife wearing a Muslim veil
- 2014 – 2014 Sarcelles riots, a pro-Palestinian protest against the Israeli ground invasion of Gaza degenerated into an antisemitic riot in Sarcelles, France.
- 2016 - 2016 French taxi driver strike, a strike by taxi drivers in several major cities against Uber, a transportation network company, included many road blockades, fires, overturned vehicles, and the blockade of roads leading to the two major airports in Paris.[5]
- 2016 - Nuit debout, protests that grew out of opposition to proposed labor reforms.
- 2017 - Protests started following accusations a police officer anally raped a young black man with a baton.[6] Anti-police protests continued well into March 2017 when migrants were met with resistance from Paris residents.
- 2017 - During May Day protests in Paris, a group of about 150[7] hooded demonstrators disrupted the march, throwing "Molotov cocktails, firebombs and other objects at the police near Place de la Bastille."[8] These "violent protesters, who did not carry any union or election paraphernalia, appeared to be from the same fringe groups that have targeted anti-government protests in the past."[8] Riot police responded with batons and tear gas.[8] Six police officers were injured, two of them seriously, by petrol bombs.[9]
- 2018 - Gilets jaunes protests over ongoing increases to fuel taxes.
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
@PocketZeven
Interesting list, I wonder how much of the unrest is the direct fault of the government's mismanagement of the economy and oppressive taxation of it's people? Keep in mind we have seen the same sort of protests in places like Venezuela that also have oppressive taxes. I'm not sure of anything but the smart advice for Macron would be to heed the will of the people he and his government represent.
Interesting list, I wonder how much of the unrest is the direct fault of the government's mismanagement of the economy and oppressive taxation of it's people? Keep in mind we have seen the same sort of protests in places like Venezuela that also have oppressive taxes. I'm not sure of anything but the smart advice for Macron would be to heed the will of the people he and his government represent.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
France's taxes are hardly oppressive, even compared to some other European countries. If you look at the history of the riots that @PocketZeven listed you'll see that many of them aren't to do with tax and several of them were relatively localised. Of course his list could go on to include many many large-scale protests right back to the Revolution... but taxes and government aren't even the main reason for the majority of those.
Of course, that's the nature of democracy. The problem is instilling liberty, fraternity and equality in genuine measure.
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It can't happen soon. The tax raise has been cancelled. But the Yellow Vest movement is now an uncontrolled, de-facto anarchist monster. Those who try to structure it face threats from their extremes parts that seek for chaos and government/president overturn. One of the initiator and prominent figure on social media openly said he'll go in Paris this Saturday to break into the Elysée (the presidential palace) - spreading fake news in the same video.
About the list, i would remove Nuit Debout (leftist, very urban long sitting contestation) and add the violent trail of the World Cup celebration: it seems that it became almost impossible to demonstrate peacefully in Paris.
It's the same kind of anger that emerged in the rust belt in US, that built over several decades. But Macron is the perfectly fit person to get all their focus, and his government made some really symbolic bad moves soon after the election (reducing housing subsidy by just 5 € per beneficiaries, while at the same time removing a tax impacting high income - with the intent, i think honest - to increase investment in the country).
Anyway, Saturday is announced to be the peak of violence in Paris since 1968, and could be bloody.
Extreme right seeking for chaos, Black Block anarchist that called for reinforcement across all Europe, and suburbs looters that may see here the best opportunity of their life. That's not counting with the Yellow Vest, that are subject to crowd behavior.
I guess this type of cars will be parked more safely this time...
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- 1,971
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- Milouse
- Milouse
@DDastardly00
I told my wife to plan in advance to avoid having to go out that day, we'll see what happen to Miss Potato, her old car.
We're supposed to be outside the most dangerous zone, but during the 2007 riots, all the neighborhood have been woke up around 4 am by the successive explosions of almost all the cars parked in the street (one is set on fire, then explodes, then it spreads to the next car, and so on)
I forgot to mention the orange Playmobil in my earlier post...
(the video starts at the exact time of the wanted, very short scene)
Note: the black cubes flying everywhere are pulled from the pavement, and are 15x15 cm stones...
I told my wife to plan in advance to avoid having to go out that day, we'll see what happen to Miss Potato, her old car.
We're supposed to be outside the most dangerous zone, but during the 2007 riots, all the neighborhood have been woke up around 4 am by the successive explosions of almost all the cars parked in the street (one is set on fire, then explodes, then it spreads to the next car, and so on)
I forgot to mention the orange Playmobil in my earlier post...
(the video starts at the exact time of the wanted, very short scene)
Note: the black cubes flying everywhere are pulled from the pavement, and are 15x15 cm stones...
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
@DDastardly00
I told my wife to plan in advance to avoid having to go out that day, we'll see what happen to Miss Potato, her old car.
We're supposed to be outside the most dangerous zone, but during the 2007 riots, all the neighborhood have been woke up around 4 am by the successive explosions of almost all the cars parked in the street (one is set on fire, then explodes, then it spreads to the next car, and so on)
I forgot to mention the orange Playmobil in my earlier post...
(the video starts at the exact time of the wanted, very short scene)
Note: the black cubes flying everywhere are pulled from the pavement, and are 15x15 cm stones...
Ok, you definitely win, your anarchists are worse than our anarchists (Seattle), and that is considering the infamous Seattle WTO protests. I wish they wouldn't take it out on the poor defenseless cars. That burning Benz pic is just a tragedy.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
I was at the WTO protests at Seattle, '99. I saw police cars tagged, windows smashed and tires flattened. The diplomat motorcade was disrupted, storefront windows smashed and streets blocked. Trashcan fires, yes, but no major fires that I saw. The best part was when one of the anarchist women took her top off and bared her big floppy tits.
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
A few years ago I took a motorcycle trip down to San Francisco, stopping for a time in Eugene to spend time in the Whiteaker district, ground zero for primitive anarchists in the USA. The females did seem to be plain, earthy and serious. Identifying as a greaser, I found acceptance by the males and was allowed to take photos.To this day I haven't yet seen a cute female anarchist protester, I don't think they exist
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I used the word anarchist in two different way:
- the first time as a group of people, not part of the Yellow Vests, that break whatever it can by infiltrating other demonstrations. It's anti-capitalist.
- the second time to qualify the Yellow Vest that seems to fight internally against any pyramidal schemata or leader. being de-facto anarchist. Here i used anarchy in its literal meaning (without authority/leader).
The most likely outcome is that the Yellow Vests will fragment ; a sub-group "The Free Yellow Vests" (Gilets Jaunes Libres) has been received by the prime minister this evening.
Some say they want to be candidates at the European parliament election next spring...
Macron will speak publicly Monday. In the meantime, Paris is preparing to resist this Saturday: museum and bigger shops will close, many of them and banks are covering their windows with wood or metal covering, and i saw a queue twice longer than usual at the supermarket.
- 1,971
- Seattle, WA
My thoughts will definitely be with the great city of Paris tomorrow, I sincerely hope the damage is minimal. I have walked the Champs-Elysees Avenue and seen it's charm and splendor first hand. The avenue certainly has been through worse than whatever will happen tomorrow. Maybe we can take some, if little, comfort in that.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
I just fear far rightwing extremists (Le Pen voters) are taking over the movement and moving it past what it was intended for (gasprices). It isnt very hard to take over since they only need to put on a yellow vest in great enough numbers. Its a great opportunity For Le Pen to point out Macron's weaknesses and change the narrative. Like Trump and Co exploit any opportunity of violence related to terrorism or immigration to blame it on the democrats.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
If you live by the sword, you must be prepared to die by the sword.
Accordingly, once you've accepted that government must abide by the consent of the people being governed, you've crossed a bridge of no return that can lead to the madness, excess and tyranny of the mob.
I suspect that it was the tone deafness of Macron - tax hikes for the poor and tax breaks for the rich - that motivated the yellow jacket protests of a month ago. Now that the protests have become larger and more violent, Macron's position has become more precarious.
Accordingly, once you've accepted that government must abide by the consent of the people being governed, you've crossed a bridge of no return that can lead to the madness, excess and tyranny of the mob.
I suspect that it was the tone deafness of Macron - tax hikes for the poor and tax breaks for the rich - that motivated the yellow jacket protests of a month ago. Now that the protests have become larger and more violent, Macron's position has become more precarious.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
This weekend may well decide Macron's fate. I'm sure in his mind he thought he could throw the protestors a little cake in the form of a 6 month moratorium on the gas tax but he failed to realize the gas tax is only symbolic and perhaps the French have reached a boiling point of top down authoritarian rule and heavy taxation. If the protests continue unabated and the crackdown is brutal, this could be his undoing. The images of schoolchildren on their knees surrounded by armed police aren't going over too well with the plebes.
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From a poll made 10 days ago by Elabe, 20% of the population declares to be a Yellow Vest.
Details:
42 % among the Le Pen (far right) voters in 2017
20 % among Melenchon (far left) voters in 2017
16 % among Fillon (right) voters in 2017
9 % among Hamon (socialist) voters in 2017
5 % among Macron voters in 2017
Yes indeed.My thoughts will definitely be with the great city of Paris tomorrow, I sincerely hope the damage is minimal. I have walked the Champs-Elysees Avenue and seen it's charm and splendor first hand. The avenue certainly has been through worse than whatever will happen tomorrow. Maybe we can take some, if little, comfort in that.
Btw, the nazis didn't prevent the daily fire re-ignition process to happen under the Arc de Triomphe, it has been prevented for the first time ever last week.
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- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Hard to tell if you're serious or not.
Some highlights from another poll this week:
Some 72 percent support the movement overall, according to the poll -- numbers that have stayed stable despite violent clashes in Paris last weekend when some 200 cars were torched.
Among people who vote for far-right leader Marine Le Pen, 83 percent support the "yellow vests", dropping slightly to 78 percent among those who support leftwing firebrand Jean-Luc Melenchon.
Among Macron voters, 52 percent back the movement.
If these numbers are even close to true it sounds like broad based support for this movement. Even Macron and leftist supporters are in a majority support position.
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- 5,051
- Netherlands
Exactly what I was fearing has happened:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...er-yellow-vest-movement-denounces-extremists/
- 17,115
- United Kingdom
Deadly serious..
Not really, I'm kind of poking fun at Dotini's seemingly continual glee at the struggles of non US western democracies.
You mean "Let them eat red hot mother-lovin' freedom!!!"
- 5,588
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- ryzno
You made my day! Thank you!
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Wasn't it also Macron who told someone to "cross the road" to get a job, implying that jobs were plentiful? Perhaps "cross the ocean" might be more apt with their 10% UE rate.
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- Milouse
Not sure what you're referring to by "authoritarian", but gas tax raises were in the Macron presidency platform during 2017 campaign. And let's face it: people would have never care that much about those taxes if the overall oil market was down in the previous month.
The problem with these broad questions, is that:
A: The result includes people who have "sympathy" for the Yellow Vest
B: Taking a side doesn't cost anything. Some people says them want more money? Oh yeah, i have sympathy for them, why not...
My problem with the Yellow Vest "thing" is that i'm hearing a lot of people saying they don't usually vote because they are "apolitical", claiming that THEY ARE the people, saying they want plenty of contradictory things right now, and when someone try to articulate an answer, pull the magic card "people doesn't understand what you're saying". And i have already reported earlier about their authoritarian behavior.
Not that Macron didn't deserved to be bitten back after showing quite some arrogance, even by french standards...
The both funny and sad part of the article is that this woman, who for a living used to chase ectoplasmes, has a particular taste for conspiracy theories, and has just set a small sub group (The Free Yellow Vests) with two figures having far-right social history - one of them having been a candidate of the last parliamentary election and ending last with 0.6% of the votes.
