F.I.T.T. Azure Cobra Shootout (Ended. Results on post 3.)

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Oh no, my car hit rock bottom again

 

[Onboy123]

And even more so when, almost as a consequence for achieving said 10, the next score is rather heavily affected by it. This isn't a monster, it's a mind :censored:ing paradox car.

To get perfection, you have to sacrifice a lot of the handling in later areas (perfect mid corner, average exit in this case), which leaves you with a kind of Jack of all trades, master of none car.

I think the sign of a "winning/good" tune here is to get something as damn near straight 9s for everything. Just me, maybe.

 

[krenkme]

5 laps per track, per car.

======================
Cote d'Azur

======================
MCHami 1:44.239
...... Well done, Sir, it's just a shame that Krenkme did what he did.

======================
Krenkme 1:44.060
Well done, Sir. Drives just like I like my cars too. Unhurried and manageable. It's still remarkably easy to provoke the smoke machine, but likewise, it's very easy to let the car find its way around the course. Bravo.

======================

{Cy}

That is a shame

Car was tuned with old man fingers, on a DS3, using automatic transmission... it's like it was built for you

Thanks for the run. Well done

Test Result :

4 non stop laps each car, no ABS.

Tuner name: Krenkme - FR sent - Pending
Best lap: 1:xxxx
ABS: 0, BB x/x
Controller type: Stick
Sensitivity or Feedback: 4

If you sent me a FR I'll have my daughter accept it when she gets home from school (I won't be home for a few more weeks )

Here my results for the shootout.

To have 10 the car need to show a perfect balance.

In a corner: under brake, the car must lead to the apex with a little rotation ,staying in line.

Mid corner:throttle control must let the car the way you want, releasing throttle front lead to apex, accelerating can print a light oversteer to correct a driving line without sudden oversteer, maintaining throttle must follow the line perfectly. Good precise direction.

out a corner: Full traction without losing the rear and light controled oversteer.

Sheephead99 and XDesperado don't have their car on share.

Very nice shootout with a lot of very good cars.

Congratulations to tuners and testers.

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

I can't see the results using the app. But I'm sure your times are amazing. Thanks for testing

 

[praiano63]

That is a shame

Car was tuned with old man fingers, on a DS3, using automatic transmission... it's like it was built for you

Thanks for the run. Well done



If you sent me a FR I'll have my daughter accept it when she gets home from school (I won't be home for a few more weeks )



I can't see the results using the app. But I'm sure your times are amazing. Thanks for testing

Perhaps like this....

MONACO SHOOTOUT RESULTS fast corner medium corner" slow turn
Best lap in mid out in mid out in mid out Gears points
kremkme 1. 42 028 9 9 9 9 9 9 8 9 9 8 8 total 96 /110
praiano 1. 41 528 10 9 9 9 9 7 9 8 8 9 9 total 96 /110
MCHami 1. 42 189 8 9 8 9 9 9 9 9 8 9 8 total 95 /110
OnBoy123 1. 42 199 7 9 8 8 8 9 9 9 9 9 9 total 94 /110
ACSR421 1. 42 296 6 9 7 9 9 7 9 9 9 9 9 total 92 /110
ugabugaz 1. 42 588 5 9 10 9 9 10 7 8 9 7 8 total 91 /110
Ridox2JZGTE 1. 43 462 4 7 5 6 7 7 5 7 6 5 7 total 66 /110

 

[DigitalBaka]

I greatly dislike this car.

Ronald, I hope you don't mind if I post my results rather late tonight. I have two to finish up but I won't be able to get on the PS3 until late.

 

[Ronald6]

No problem DB. A family event will keep me from testing Praianos car till later tonight. I might not meet my own deadline. It's so easy to rack up 50+ laps quickly while testing.

 

[ACSR421]

Heres my unofficial test results from some of the cars I was able to test. I used manual trans. and tuned my own car this way also. I used one of my early ghost laps for comparison a 1:42.955 my fastest with my car ended up at a 1:42.208.

Onboy : Tall gearing used gears 1-3 and 4 only briefly. I had understeer with this one and MCH's car. It was still fast for most of the track and I could pull ahead of my ghost before the tunnel but around the waters edge I wasn't able to stay with my ghost as it sliced its way thru the turns I couldn't match its ability to stay inline and make those slalom like direction changes at speed I finished about .5 sec behind.

MCH : I had some understeer and turn in issues at first then one lap it seemed to grip more and I was ahead of the ghost thru the tunnel. After that I wasn't able to carve my way thru to the end with the same speed as the ghost. I did like the gearing and grip/control it had at the rear wheels.

Krenkme : Very short gears can tell it was setup for auto. This one was the most fun to drive but I wasn't able to drive it as fast as the top two. A little tailhappy when I pushed it faster and it didn't get around the water section as fast as some but it was still very fun sliding it around the course.

Praiano : Very tall first gear. The car felt closest to mine in handling not quite as sharp on turn in but perhaps better mid turn. I stayed ahead of my ghost thru the tunnel and down the hill the car is a little unstable under heavy braking must brake in a straight line. The slalom section by the water is where the tune shined for me I was able to make time and finished ahead of my ghost. Very stable and able to make quick direction changes.

AC : Had to try it back to back against the others. It feels like it turns the sharpest of the bunch and tracks the best while coasting. I do short shift it from first to second around the track and downshift to second from third for the left hander at the top of the hill, I use the engine braking to help the car turn. I'm not able to feel much lack of grip mid corner with a controller but it must exist (I was hoping to find it right away so I could work on it after the shootout). Its not quite as precise as Praianos car along the water front but I'm fastest in it over the full lap. I still prefer Krenkme's ride for drivers choice though. 👍

 

[ugabugaz]

And even more so when, almost as a consequence for achieving said 10, the next score is rather heavily affected by it. This isn't a monster, it's a mind :censored:ing paradox car.

To get perfection, you have to sacrifice a lot of the handling in later areas (perfect mid corner, average exit in this case), which leaves you with a kind of Jack of all trades, master of none car.

I think the sign of a "winning/good" tune here is to get something as damn near straight 9s for everything. Just me, maybe.

Hey I'll take 10's I'll have you know even if I have some lower scores, especially from a tuna like praiano . Although I have to admit I still like my tune, and don't find much wrong with on corner exit (Where it seems praiano faulted it the most). Then again I haven't driven any other Cobras (Except praianos).

Praiano - You came closest to matching my time of 42.188.

 

[praiano63]

Hey I'll take 10's I'll have you know even if I have some lower scores, especially from a tuna like praiano . Although I have to admit I still like my tune, and don't find much wrong with on corner exit (Where it seems praiano faulted it the most). Then again I haven't driven any other Cobras (Except praianos).

Praiano - You came closest to matching my time of 42.188.

Yes, corner exit medium and low speed corner was the weak point of your car. Perhaps with a few more laps i'll find the way to deal with it but i did only 5 to 7 laps with each car. The one that fit to my driving style quickly were leading . For example, the krenkme cobra, it was like i drove always this car since the first seconds. Even with a too short gearbox , i was able to do 1:42.028 in the second lap.
I think that with more 20 laps for each , most of the cars can go to low 1:42.xxx high 41.xxx.

Very good cars anyway. Most of them.

Congrats to everybody, again.

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°°

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Very good cars anyway. Most of them.

Not mine apparently, most of time are only 1:44.xxx during the tests, I just love to slide the car around every tight corners, but I still appreciate the results, no matter how bad my tune is, it is still drivable

I keep on making fail tune, maybe I am a looney tune

 

[Ronald6]

I keep on making fail tune, maybe I am a looney tune

Your tunes are too specialized. They are made to fit only one person: you. You tune well enough for yourself, but because your style (and controller) are so distinctive what works for you is too far over the edge for anyone else.

Just sayin...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Your tunes are too specialized. They are made to fit only one person: you. You tune well enough for yourself, but because your style (and controller) are so distinctive what works for you is too far over the edge for anyone else.

Just sayin...

Could you give me pointers as to how to tune an easy to drive car ?
I think for a start I'll give low BB for ABS users, does 5/3 or 4/2 sounds good ?
Most of the problem was on the BB value, maybe also because I tuned all my car to be driven with trail braking in mind.

 

[Ronald6]

Not just trail braking. You use a specialized controller that "anyone could make" (I believe that's a direct quote from one of your posts). That controller distorts your inputs compared to other players. If you want to tune for others (and use their tunes properly) you need a device that is calibrated to be equivalent.

I think... don't quote me. Lol

Pointers, from a driver's perspective:
1) Drive car.
2) find biggest problem
3) fix problem with most appropriate adjustments
4) goto step 1, tweak till satisfied

Don't!
1) fix a problem that doesn't exist.
(Drive the car stock and get to know it. Understand it's attitudes.)
2) use an inappropriate tyre.
3) make more than one adjustment at a time.

 

[DigitalBaka]

ABS 1, grip real, sensitivity 0, ds3, MT, BB 7/5 except ugabugaz which was faster at default 7/4, 5-7 laps on default BB, same on mine

Praiano - 1'43.555
Krenkme - 1'44.177
Onboy - 1'44.584
MCH - 1'45.616
ACSR - 1'46.167
Ugabugaz - 1'46.516
Ridox - 1'48.115

Details to be added.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Not just trail braking. You use a specialized controller that "anyone could make" (I believe that's a direct quote from one of your posts). That controller distorts your inputs compared to other players. If you want to tune for others (and use their tunes properly) you need a device that is calibrated to be equivalent.

I think...

My controller is a DS2 stick, the only mod I made is to replace the worn rubber pad underneath the face buttons, it was taken from a newer stick, then I put some cushion behind the electronic board for sturdiness. There is nothing special other than it take 3 times more pressure on the face button to full 100% input compared to the generic DS3. The analog L3 and R3 are the same. Just like everyone else who use DS3, but with mine I can modulate the brake and gas much more precise.

"Anyone could make" is what I meant with that simple mod, my old DS2 has worn out rubber pad, thus replacing it and some tissue paper cushion is optional just to make the inner stuff tight.

If I can better control gas and brake when using controller makes my tune too specialized ... what should I do then, use my DS3 to tune and drive slower due to the overly sensitive buttons ?

If you have DS2, you should give it a try to see what I mean, it's the same with steering and everything, just better pressure sensitive buttons.

Thanks for the pointers, I'll keep that in mind

 

[Ronald6]

... what should I do then, use my DS3 to tune and drive...

like everyone else.

To tune for others and use their tunes you need to use a controller with the same

calibration

as everyone else.

Thanks for the pointers, I'll keep that in mind

No problem. You should ask the tuners first though.

I'll stick to my DFGT. I'll never go back. If anything I need to upgrade to a better wheel (with an H pattern with clutch), not downgrade to a stick. It's not just the control (with equal calibration!). The experience from a wheel setup is 200% better.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Same calibration ? Some tuners and tester like you, uses wheels, while others use DS3, they are not the same, are they need to be the same calibration ?

My DS2 is form Sony, it works fine with other racing games or any other games that does not use sixaxis. If the pressure travel on DS2 have wider range, it is good for precise control, I don't see a point about calibration. The rest of the buttons, vibration function are exactly the same.

You need to try it yourself, I think you won't be able to tell the difference between them other than the sixaxis feature, for GT5 - better precision input on face buttons and one is wired.

 

[Ronald6]

It's about "feel through the range" of motion. How much I turn my wheel and how much a DS3 user move the stick is equal through the ranges we are given. After thousands of hours of testing PD has got it pretty equal.

The mods you have given your DS2 have changed its feel at different points through its range of motion. That gives you a desperate experience compared to drivers who use a "standard" input device.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

It's about "feel through the range" of motion. How much I turn my wheel and how much a DS3 user move the stick is equal through the ranges we are given. After thousands of hours of testing PD has got it pretty equal.

The mods you have given your DS2 have changed its feel at different points through its range of motion. That gives you a desperate experience compared to drivers who use a "standard" input device.

My mod only affect the brake and gas, any DS2 or DS3 would have the same feel in analog steering as mine, I only replace the rubber pad for the face buttons sensors ( for the square, triangle, cross and circle ) from another newer DS2. Putting a cushion does not give any extra advantages, my old DS2 has some rattle in it, so that was the purpose.

I think you misunderstood me here, my DS2 does not perform differently than other DS3. It gave the same input, the same performance. How hard I press to give the same input does not influence how I tune, it only makes applying throttle and brake at any percentage easier than with DS3. If I think about it, it actually more beneficial in a good way that a stick users can accelerate and brake more precisely. If you look at my sig, check my video thread, does my driving any different than any wheel/DS3 users ?

 

[Onboy123]

Your tunes are too specialized. They are made to fit only one person: you. You tune well enough for yourself, but because your style (and controller) are so distinctive what works for you is too far over the edge for anyone else.

Just sayin...

Hmm…I think that this particular case of the Cobra just blew his issues way out of proportions. Normally we'd only have to worry about your preference of not using ABS (it worked quite well for AR, actually), but with a nutter like the Cobra where control is already lacking, it means that the average old farts like Cykosis and such have to work their backs out just to keep it in a straight line.

@Ridox, don't worry, just ask DB or Cy about my first few cars. A good example would be that Eclipse or Cougar of mine. The latter drove wonderfully for me, damn near murdered every other tester that drove with a DS3. You'll get the hang of it, you just need to start with something that's a stable enough as a base for you so that you don't really need to worry about killing testers.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@Ridox, don't worry, just ask DB or Cy about my first few cars. A good example would be that Eclipse or Cougar of mine. The latter drove wonderfully for me, damn near murdered every other tester that drove with a DS3. You'll get the hang of it, you just need to start with something that's a stable enough as a base for you so that you don't really need to worry about killing testers.

Thanks for the advice, maybe I better stick with being a guest test driver, that way most tunes made with ABS in mind would be benefit from another side of the coin, and without actually affecting the shootout result.

Tuning car for shootout so far only work well for certain drivers, maybe because I was tuning without ABS. I'll be a test driver only from now on, the Fall Battle Coastal Shootout hosted by DB might be my last as tuner, I hope the Camaro IROC-Z would entertain testers with joy and excitement.

On another note, I have finished my testing, check here for the full result :

Test Result

 

[Onboy123]

Hmmm&#8230;alternatively, tune with ABS, test without? 💡

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Hmmm…alternatively, tune with ABS, test without? 💡

I can tune with ABS, but I don't think it will make much difference in how I tune or the end result, as I always run the same high BB even with ABS when driving. So the Camaro IROC Z, I'll tune it with ABS then and I'll focus on low BB tune... this might be a good idea, let us see how it goes.

The funny thing is I never have any trouble driving any other people's tune, no matter how hard it is, I'll try to adapt to it, even if it's not a fast time, I still enjoy taming the unknown without ABS

 

[DigitalBaka]

Thanks for the advice, maybe I better stick with being a guest test driver, that way most tunes made with ABS in mind would be benefit from another side of the coin, and without actually affecting the shootout result.

Tuning car for shootout so far only work well for certain drivers, maybe because I was tuning without ABS. I'll be a test driver only from now on, the Fall Battle Coastal Shootout hosted by DB might be my last as tuner, I hope the Camaro IROC-Z would entertain testers with joy and excitement.

On another note, I have finished my testing, check here for the full result :

Test Result

I started as a tester too. I am still not great at tuning but driving so many tunes (go through the FITT archives and see how many cars we used to drive at once!) from different people gave me a decent sense of how to set up a car for the average Joe. Looking at the comments on my tunes they are not usually difficult to drive but not quick either. I still have more to learn.

Even if you are not testing the cars look at the comments and settings for those that do well. I learned nearly everything from Praiano, Roj ,RJ....Hami showed me everything I needed about LSD tuning. It is definitely some work to make a tune that works for a variety of people but don't give up on it. What Onboy says is true, his tunes used to stink! This round I think he made the best Cobra of the lot. Time and dedication, friend.

 

[Onboy123]

You didn't need to agree with me so readily about my old tunes being hard to handle, DB! And the point was that you'd get better over time, not that my old cars drove like dog turd!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I started as a tester too. I am still not great at tuning but driving so many tunes (go through the FITT archives and see how many cars we used to drive at once!) from different people gave me a decent sense of how to set up a car for the average Joe. Looking at the comments on my tunes they are not usually difficult to drive but not quick either. I still have more to learn.

Even if you are not testing the cars look at the comments and settings for those that do well. I learned nearly everything from Praiano, Roj ,RJ....Hami showed me everything I needed about LSD tuning. It is definitely some work to make a tune that works for a variety of people but don't give up on it. What Onboy says is true, his tunes used to stink! This round I think he made the best Cobra of the lot. Time and dedication, friend.

Thanks for the tips, I used to tune for myself, so I was surprised my tunes were nightmare to some people, silly me, from now on, when I tune for others to drive, I'll keep the tune with reasonable numbers, and easy to drive, but I'm not sure if it's going to be fast.
My A Team Camaro IROC is on share, I wish this car is a good start in the right direction.

You didn't need to agree with me so readily about my old tunes being hard to handle, DB! And the point was that you'd get better over time, not that my old cars drove like dog turd!

Your old cars could be golden in my hand I love the taming part, not so many love to drive stock Cizeta V16T with comfort medium and no ABS, so why yours would be bad

 

[moparisgod]

I was following this shootout, and I'm wondering who won

 

[Ronald6]

Lol, moparisgod. As you posted I was compiling the times. The results will be posted on post 3 in a moment.

DigitalBaka, CyKosis: I need your driver scores, please. Remember, they're like tokens numbered one through five. You only get five tokens to hand out.

My driver points:
Krenkme: 5
ACSR421: 4
Praiano: 3
MCHami: 2
ugabugas: 1

 

[DigitalBaka]

Driver Score, 5 to 1

Onboy
Krenkme
Praiano
MCHami
Ugabugaz

I'll add this to my results later when I update the comments.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Final test results:

Total points (and the winner is...):

Ronald - Don't let this drag on. With our current FITT schedule and a new competition beginning before the previous has ended, the host needs to stay focused on wrapping it up well after everyone else has moved on to the new one.

Thank you for hosting. It was fun all using one car that had difficult tuning trade offs on a track that really exposed it's weaknesses.

Oh... and here's a little something from the Mid Ohio race that I thought belonged in this shootout thread.