F1 Games - General Discussion

[MagpieRacer]

Having posted somewhere the other day about F1 2021 and 22 being a regression from 2020 I'm kind of reassessing after playing them both again. I don’t think 2021 is - I think that just lacks the classic content, it's still pretty nice to play and adds stuff like more pronounced underbody damage etc and new circuits like Imola and Portimao which are nice. I've enjoyed it. Where I think they've struggled is getting the new physics and handling model right with 22 - it's just less fun to play, I can see what they were going for with it but the result is that the steering is understeery and....delayed, so its hard to have confidence in where you're putting the front of the car. It's not just the new F1 either, the F2 feels off too. So I do have hope that if they can get the handling right for 23, they still have a pretty nice game.

It just starts to feel dated too. I think where 2020 was clearly the peak of the mountain was graphically, subsequent games are no better visually which is weird when you think 21 and 22 are supposedly fully next gen optimised? I don't see any improvement running F1 22 to 2020 running on the Series X. In lots of ways 2020 looks a bit crisper to me.

Limitation of the engine maybe?

There are definitely areas where 2021 is good, like you say, the damage new circuits etc. I didn't even miss the classic content purely because it never seems to get utilised properly, just filler content that pops up in annoying ways in career mode with some tacked on championships that offer nothing. WRC 10 showed how to use classic content effectively.

2021 for me was just simply less fun to play, that's where the physics took a nosedive, curbs became ice, cars spun too easily and lacked grip when in real life, they really didn't. The career mode was also copy/pasted from 2020 and while that was a good career mode, it sorely lacked new features to make it worth playing through again. '22 then went further down that hole, but I think it felt worse with '22 because they put the time and effort into doing the supercars and F1 life, whilst ignoring the glaring issues elsewhere.

F1 '23 needs to do a few things for me to consider buying it this time around, especially if the rumours around it being on the old engine still are true:

• MyTeam needs to be improved, needs to be a refresh on how car development works, the budget cap needs to be a factor given that's an integral part of F1 now, more inter team tussles, 1st and 2nd driver conversation etc.
• The spec car needs to actually look representative of the current F1 cars, it's immersion killing having such an ugly looking spec car in MyTeam and multiplayer. While it might be too much to ask for some visual options (different front wings, side pod concepts etc), just a car that looks like a 2023 car, not a show car from 2020.
• With that, the livery editor needs revamping, the preset liveries aren't great. It doesn't need to be a full Gran Turismo/Forza style editor, just something like Grid Legends would suffice.
• Cars need to actually reflect the real F1 cars in terms of grip levels, downforce, ability to run over curbs etc.
• Overhauled track visuals across the board, some of the models are looking very sub par now.
• If they are going to persist with F1 life, it needs to have a value in the game, it needs to have a purpose. Function as a rest area between races where you can access emails, development, new articles etc. But bring back the 'be the driver, live the life' thing from the early Codemasters games, driver press conferences, interviews, team mate conversations. But make it all matter, it used to affect your standing with the team and other teams and what you said had impacts (I'm talking 2010-2012 era, not the later poor excuse of interviews).
• In My Driver mode, the academy you choose should actually mean something. If I choose the Alpine academy, let me choose only the Aline academy liveried cars in F2, and make more of that, if Alpine don't have an F1 seat and I am F2 champion, make a deal about being loaned to Williams or be a reserve driver, doing the occasional FP1. It would feel far more immersive and the inclusion of F2 and the academy choice thing would actually mean something. Instead of choosing say, Mercedes, driving a Red Bull liveried F2 car, then just choosing Ferrari when you finish that season. Makes the whole process completely pointless.

I know a lot of, if any of these, probably won't happen, but for me it needs this kick of life to actually be worth buying.

 

[Veinz]

I only play the F1 games for the career, it has come a long way since the beginning but it has got really stale over the past few years. There are a million things they could do to make it more immersive, but why do that when you can have...F1 life.

I don't think there will be any major changes until last gen console support is dropped, which will be hopefully soon.

 

[marioho]

I know you have a lot of time for Greco but the handling on F1 was always in question, I'm not that hyped by a new project from him.

Hmm, I don't think there's any need for that "but" in there 🙃
I like Greco, I like a lot of what he envisions, but the handling that Codies has been delivering of late is not good. And ever since I got my cheap ass wheel (Logitech G923), the fun I had playing F1 diminished abruptly. FFB on wheels has never been this franchise strong suit.

So we have a problematic experience with controllers on the current handling model, and it gets even worse on a wheel. No way to fault anyone on being neutral (to say the least) on Greco's next projects or F1 23.

In a few minutes I'll post a interview that Greco made this week. Perhaps it will get clearer why I like the guy, love the effort, and dislike the product – no buts haha

Having posted somewhere the other day about F1 2021 and 22 being a regression from 2020 I'm kind of reassessing after playing them both again. I don’t think 2021 is - I think that just lacks the classic content, it's still pretty nice to play and adds stuff like more pronounced underbody damage etc and new circuits like Imola and Portimao which are nice. I've enjoyed it. Where I think they've struggled is getting the new physics and handling model right with 22 - it's just less fun to play, I can see what they were going for with it but the result is that the steering is understeery and....delayed, so its hard to have confidence in where you're putting the front of the car. It's not just the new F1 either, the F2 feels off too. So I do have hope that if they can get the handling right for 23, they still have a pretty nice game.

Thought of commenting earlier but since I'd be speaking out of old impressions and memory alone, didn't feel comfortable chiming in. F1 2021 was the most satisfying release out of the bunch, in my opinion.

F1 22 felt like following a new direction (handling and physics wise) but only taking half steps. And after a few months they pulled back even more trying to patch or ameliorate the issues that popped up.

 

[MattJXN]

I just hope that EA takes the time to get an understanding from the player base what they want to see in the game.

F1 Life is the most throw away nonsense and is embarrassing for the franchise. There is no connection to anything related to the game in F1 Life. Pure garbage.

I hope EA learns that what works for FIFA (which I quit playing due to all the micro-transaction type stuff they've added) is not going to work for F1 unless you add a slew of classic cars, classic tracks, SIGNIFICANTLY improve the online experience, and fix the gosh awful physics in the new game.

I play on controller and F1 2021 felt just right to me in terms of being able to "drive" the car and push it really hard when needed and trust that it was going to stay pinned. F1 23 is a nightmare of random spins and horrible throttle input and just a terrible experience all around for a controller player.

Hmm, I don't think there's any need for that "but" in there 🙃
I like Greco, I like a lot of what he envisions, but the handling that Codies has been delivering of late is not good. And ever since I got my cheap ass wheel (Logitech G923), the fun I had playing F1 diminished abruptly. FFB on wheels has never been this franchise strong suit.

So we have a problematic experience with controllers on the current handling model, and it gets even worse on a wheel. No way to fault anyone on being neutral (to say the least) on Greco's next projects or F1 23.

In a few minutes I'll post a interview that Greco made this week. Perhaps it will get clearer why I like the guy, love the effort, and dislike the product – no buts haha

Thought of commenting earlier but since I'd be speaking out of old impressions and memory alone, didn't feel comfortable chiming in. F1 2021 was the most satisfying release out of the bunch, in my opinion.

F1 22 felt like following a new direction (handling and physics wise) but only taking half steps. And after a few months they pulled back even more trying to patch or ameliorate the issues that popped up.

Agree that F1 2021 is the best all around and was a damn fun game to play. I don't understand what they are trying to accomplish with the handling and physics on F1 22, the back end of the car feels either 100% or 0% in terms of grip. There are only extremes and that is just ridiculous for any racing car / game much less F1.

 

[wolf359]

I hope they add mouse support for the menus. That cant be that hard to implement, they just dont care.

 

[oqvist]

Wish the f1 2021 cars would have retro physics. Maybe they have I only have very first impressions but just cant get a good feel. Vr is the one huge thing going for f1 22 but I would rather continue my team in f1 2020 in vr lol

 

[Veinz]

I hope they add mouse support for the menus. That cant be that hard to implement, they just dont care.

I haven't played one of these games on PC yet, but I heard people complaining about this years ago. Just lol.

Codemasters is the DICE of the racing genre.

 

[Peter.]

Even before EA came along, the signs were there that Codemasters were going to imitate the microtransaction models we see in other games. Honestly, I fear they will persist with F1 Life and the Season Pass model. Literally everyone is doing it, after all.

Sadly they have already kind of messed up the moment you boot up the game. The driver customization options in terms of physical appearance are awful. I have no reason at all to care about my home. it doesn't fit a game like this because you don't spend hours on end, with many friends, playing this game. It's not an RPG and has not much longevity being an annual release. You can't even walk around in it yourself.

The supercars on display neither fit into the genre of this game, nor do they have any customization to enable some amount of self expression. Plus, you can get all of them very easily from just playing the game, so it's not really impressive in any way. Apart from obvious advertisement of the brands, it's totally useless. This being the replacement for classic cars is just plain diabolical.

I am also deeply bothered by the fact that the Player car does not have its own livery editor. I know why they don't have one, which is to sell us the more customizable but still terrible ones in the store, but this is still an awful decision. It just doesn't work at all. MyTeam, despite having too many issues for a single post, is still the best game mode, and it's missing a lot of immersion just because of this. I want to be a new manufacturer, or a new privateer, but I cannot. I can use incredibly generic liveries and copy a color palette and fit in some generic sponsors and call it a day, but that's not enough.

There are things that people think are limited by not moving to a new engine, like the physics and some of the quality of life stuff, but are just poor craftsmanship. I really stopped playing F1 22 once I got through the new track (Jeddah) and the new layout of Albert Park, because beyond that, the physics were just plain unfun. Whatever they are going for, they failed, massively.


I should have skipped F1 22, and I will skip 23 if it continues this nonsense.

 

[Mercia]

I am also deeply bothered by the fact that the Player car does not have its own livery editor. I know why they don't have one, which is to sell us the more customizable but still terrible ones in the store, but this is still an awful decision. It just doesn't work at all. MyTeam, despite having too many issues for a single post, is still the best game mode, and it's missing a lot of immersion just because of this. I want to be a new manufacturer, or a new privateer, but I cannot. I can use incredibly generic liveries and copy a color palette and fit in some generic sponsors and call it a day, but that's not enough.

When you look at what GT7 offers for this, even before you talk about the ability to import logos etc, with just the base options you can use the real life sponsors throughout the game on your car, helmet, racesuits..

in F1 i understand why it is perhaps more restricted, but it's a fake team at the end of the day, make these things available to us.

I fear it's less a licensing problem than an issue with willpower.

 

[marioho]

Confirmed. David Greco is joining Lighthouse Games, the studio from Forza expats.

 

[mrtestarossa]

as someone who does league racing pretty much every week I can only hope for a better, far more smoother game, but i feel like it still won't meet my expectations.

the handling model in 22 is so inconsistent, sometimes i'm able to take high speed corners with ease and other times i will spin out into a wall, F1 Life is just a glorified main menu and i just cannot believe they seriously thought this was a good idea while underlying issues like multiplayer, myteam and career mode were left pretty much unchanged from the last game. oh yeah, and there's also the cheating problem that has been getting worse in the past few months.

i can't wait to move on from 22, but at the same time i don't really feel like purchasing 23 at launch for the first time in a while, truly disappointing stuff.

 

[Matt Stephens]

Wonder what other features we’re gonna be losing for F1 23? …classic cars - gone, shorter track variations - gone, press interviews - gone, ….but hey at least we have “F1 Life” and supercars 😒

 

[MagpieRacer]

Wonder what other features we’re gonna be losing for F1 23? …classic cars - gone, shorter track variations - gone, press interviews - gone, ….but hey at least we have “F1 Life” and supercars 😒

As long as they don't do an F1 2015 and remove career mode, there's not much left for them to take is there? 😅

 

[Matt Stephens]

As long as they don't do an F1 2015 and remove career mode, there's not much left for them to take is there? 😅

Sssshhh! Don’t give EA any ideas! To be honest if and when they ever do switch to a new game engine and give everything that overdue overhaul then I would expect something along the lines of F1 2015 again with it being pretty barebones. Maybe that’s why they’re removing more and more of the features each year in the hope that no one notices when they do 😰

 

[MagpieRacer]

Sssshhh! Don’t give EA any ideas! To be honest if and when they ever do switch to a new game engine and give everything that overdue overhaul then I would expect something along the lines of F1 2015 again with it being pretty barebones. Maybe that’s why they’re removing more and more of the features each year in the hope that no one notices when they do 😰

I'm hoping work on the new engine is in the background and a game is formed but not ready. If they did another F1 2015, I'm convinced that, unless it's truly the great F1 experience of all time, it would run the risk of EA bringing the axe down due to poor performances and player feedback. So yeah I'm not sure we'll end up as bare bones as 2015, that also had to leap up a generation.

I don't think the license should be taken from them or cancelled, but the best F1 games in history came about when multiple studios could hold the license and exclusivity wasn't a thing. When we could choose a more accessible game or a more simulation game. It's a real shame Grand Prix 4 just couldn't get it's Xbox release over the line, genuinely think that would have been game changing for console F1 gaming.

 

[karaokequeen3]

It's a real shame Grand Prix 4 just couldn't get it's Xbox release over the line, genuinely think that would have been game changing for console F1 gaming.

God I miss Geoff Crammond's work.

 

[MagpieRacer]

God I miss Geoff Crammond's work.

Same, losing those titles to exclusive licensing and whatever else went on (money I'm sure played a part) was a tragedy. I think if GP4 successfully launched on Xbox, it would have changed the face of console F1 games, by providing an in depth SIM to the masses, an alternative to the woeful EA sports title of 2002 and the better but still sub par Sony effort, would have been huge and may have stopped the Sony exclusivity deal happening.

I do think that's what F1 games need, competition, Codemasters have been comfortable with it, easily raking in the cash each year, nothing to push them to do more. Imagine a modern Geoff Crammond GP title with the depth and simulation those games achieved in their time, laser scanned tracks, ultra realistic damage modelling, man, it would be incredible. But it was also force Codemasters/EA to adapt.

We can dream.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

EA is offering play testing

 

[m355y]

I've never played a Crammond F1 game, it's one of the most glaring holes in my racing game history, but I just never was a PC gamer as a kid, or now for that matter. One day...

 

[MagpieRacer]

EA is offering play testing

recent F1 releases have been play tests at launch anyway haven't they?

Assuming testing starts around the end of April, this could point to a May/June launch. Previous beta tests have been around May/June with July game launches.

 

[Famine]

Well... ruh-roh:



I wouldn't say that this confirms the title is eighth-gen compatible (any more than FM8 previews/alphas on XBOne confirms the game on XBOne), but I wouldn't have been surprised if it was anyway and this doesn't bode well...

 

[m355y]

God I hope this is a full on next gen game that makes a proper step from the last one because I think these games are starting to feel a bit stale. But all signs do point to another yearly update incremental tweak job. I hope they've adjusted the handling to actually make it fun to play and they need to have adjusted the AI not to be much faster than you down the straights. If they haven't done both of those things it might be a "no buy until it's a tenner on sale" job this year.

 

[Mercia]

But all signs do point to another yearly update incremental tweak job.

Yep. With the return of Breaking Point as the main selling feature.

Woo.

 

[Famine]

With the return of Breaking Point as the main selling feature.

Given the comment ahead of F1 22 that Breaking Point had a two-year "cadence", yup.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Well... ruh-roh:



I wouldn't say that this confirms the title is eighth-gen compatible (any more than FM8 previews/alphas on XBOne confirms the game on XBOne), but I wouldn't have been surprised if it was anyway and this doesn't bode well...

God I hope this is a full on next gen game that makes a proper step from the last one because I think these games are starting to feel a bit stale. But all signs do point to another yearly update incremental tweak job. I hope they've adjusted the handling to actually make it fun to play and they need to have adjusted the AI not to be much faster than you down the straights. If they haven't done both of those things it might be a "no buy until it's a tenner on sale" job this year.

Everything I've seen points to it being a major disappointment. No new engine this time despite rumours, David Greco leaving, more supercars apparently arriving, just screams no innovation, no new physic features or revolution, and with the previous gen consoles being part of the beta, no visual enhancements either.

I really hope I'm proved wrong but this is not heading in the right direction at the moment.

 

[Veinz]

I really wish my dusty PS4 from 10 years ago was made irrelevant already. It’s just getting silly at this point.

 

[m355y]

Current-gen only games are finally starting to happen (Ride 5) but I really think having to cater to the PS4/XB1 era is massively holding games back from ever making a major jump forward now. It's getting daft. If you're going to release on old gen just go down the FIFA route and update an old game with the new liveries etc, and release it as a separate entity to the actual new game to appease the people still stuck on old gen.

 

[xX Jojje Xx]

 

[Theufcveteran]

@Mercia there's no F1 community anymore... Not without you 🫶

Anyways:

• There were talks of an updated game engine. Either a new Ego or an entirely new one, we don't know. That fizzled out though, and the rumour mill says it's been postponed to F1 24.
• Rumours that this will be the last David Greco title. If so, it remains to be seen how much of his vision and pending features list will be baked in... I'd hope for better physics, FFB and controller support, but given that the revamped engine was postponed, if this is indeed his last jab at it, I'd expecteven more strangled up iteration of what we got in F1 22. Now that supercars hit dead in the water, perhaps we get at least a more fleshed out F1 22 handling? Without the traction issues and with beter FFB
  • What I mean by his vision is his long ambition for better "fundamentals", giving proper simulation of suspension geometry, tyre model (pressures, temp simulation), ride height etc. It's like getting new crayon colors to draw a better picture. The franchise still does not have the full spectrum of colors he needs for the drawing he had in mid for the F1 handling.
• Apprehension as to how Codies/EA will manage the silly things. The F1 Life, Supercars etc. Career and My Team modes have been left in the dust for a while now, no meaningful new features or even evolution to speak of – you're still left driving a broken upgraded car from season 3 onwards. So if they double down on that with so many things pending a rework... The franchise is not in a good state
• A few relevant bugs have their support concluded with no fix for F1 22, specially on online. A "we've stopped working on this issue, but we'll investigate it further for future releases" kind of message. This just adds to the aforementioned apprehension.

All in all, feels like another interstice title to me 🙃


And with ACC2/AC2 confirmed to be made on Kunos' proprietary engine again.

In an interview with RaceSimCentral that David did, he said that he wasn’t quite happy with the physics in 22, and that he’d worked with the physics programmer to fix all of the issues for 23.

From the article:

Interviewer: I felt gradual improvement in physics year on year from the F1 titles, especially since F1 2016, but 2022 saw major changes in car handling because of regulation changes in Formula One and for many, including the real-world drivers, these new cars were a lot less fun to drive. You worked hard to explain these changes in a series of YouTube videos. Do you feel you got things right? What were the challenges in developing an “untested” and unknown car?

Greco: This is probably the year I got it less right to be honest. There are things in the tire model, throttle model and aero model especially that did not turn out to be good enough for these ground effect cars. Having had very little time to develop these cars, we couldn’t improve the physics engine in all these areas in time, but at least we could implement a good foundation for the future titles. No one knew anything about these cars and I’d like to thank EA for giving me all the tools, including sending me to winter testing, to make my work as close as possible in the time we had.

I can’t say very much about F1 23, but I can say I mainly worked with the physics programmer to fix all the issues we had in F1 22 and therefore feel like I have left the company with a very strong platform to develop future handling.

 

[MagpieRacer]

As predicted, earlier launch than usual (if true of course).

This likely means we won't see WRC until July at the earliest then. Can't see them promoting and launching 2 racing games at the same time and I doubt we'll see WRC in May now.