Failures of Motorsports - Car Designs, Team Mistakes and More

[Liquid]

Listen, however you cut it it's worth posting (somewhere) that Gary Brabham is a child rapist. That's a shocker.

 

[SVX]

Because that's completely on the same level as raping a child.

It has just as much relevance to a thread regarding motorsport failures - none.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Except for being a permanent black mark on one of the most famous names in motorsport.

 

[SVX]

Except for being a permanent black mark on one of the most famous names in motorsport.

No doubt about that, but that has nothing to do with being a motorsport failure.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's a failure related to motorsport. I'm satisfied that it meets the criteria, even if you aren't.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Listen, however you cut it it's worth posting (somewhere) that Gary Brabham is a child rapist. That's a shocker.

Certainly. Not a "failure" though, one doesn't undertake a crime of that nature without wanting to do so or without being aware of the consequences. It had nothing to do with his involvement in motorsport, nothing to do with motorsport decisions/actions/regulations or events.

It's a failure related to motorsport. I'm satisfied that it meets the criteria, even if you aren't.

Isn't

 

[Liquid]

BMW And Robert Kubica's 2008 And 2009 Seasons

They messed up big time. At the 2008 Canadian Grand Prix Robert Kubica scored his and the team's first win a year on from his horrific crash at the event the year before. It was a fairytale story and the BMW's early year consistency meant Kubica led the championship after this event. 4 points ahead of Hamilton, 4 points ahead of Massa, 7 points ahead of Räikkönen; the three best drivers that year.

So what happened to Kubica and BMW?

Well, after this race the team stopped the development of the 2008 car when it was leading the driver's championship and started looking towards their 2009 car, ostensibly because the rules for 2009 were so different that the team decided to maximise development time to the detriment of their current car.

Up until this point Kubica had never failed to finish outside of the top four barring a retirement at the first race. Six consecutive finishes inside the top four culminating in a win which saw him lead the championship. After this, however, the lack of development meant that over the remaining 11 races Kubica only finished inside the top four twice and would end up 4th in the championship, some 23/24 points behind Massa and Hamilton.

Never mind. Maybe the gamble would pay off. Maybe BMW's long development of their 2009 car would mean 2009 would be even better.

It didn't. The car was woefully off the pace, lucky to grab any points at all which didn't really happen until the second half of the season, and a fluke 2nd place at the penultimate race in Brazil was scant consolation for a season of disappointment. Kubica moved to Renault, frustrated at what could have been, and BMW pulled out of the sport with their tail between their legs.

 

[Panoz]

It is, however, a "more", as per the thread title.

A driver being found guilty for child rape was the last thing I had in mind when I created this thread.

But these kinds of subjects could be put into a entirely different thread with criminal acts done in the motorsport world. (A handful of individuals competing in IMSA during the 1980s comes to mind.)

 

[TDZdave]

BMW And Robert Kubica's 2008 And 2009 Seasons

They messed up big time. At the 2008 Canadian Grand Prix Robert Kubica scored his and the team's first win a year on from his horrific crash at the event the year before. It was a fairytale story and the BMW's early year consistency meant Kubica led the championship after this event. 4 points ahead of Hamilton, 4 points ahead of Massa, 7 points ahead of Räikkönen; the three best drivers that year.

So what happened to Kubica and BMW?

Well, after this race the team stopped the development of the 2008 car when it was leading the driver's championship and started looking towards their 2009 car, ostensibly because the rules for 2009 were so different that the team decided to maximise development time to the detriment of their current car.

Up until this point Kubica had never failed to finish outside of the top four barring a retirement at the first race. Six consecutive finishes inside the top four culminating in a win which saw him lead the championship. After this, however, the lack of development meant that over the remaining 11 races Kubica only finished inside the top four twice and would end up 4th in the championship, some 23/24 points behind Massa and Hamilton.

Never mind. Maybe the gamble would pay off. Maybe BMW's long development of their 2009 car would mean 2009 would be even better.

It didn't. The car was woefully off the pace, lucky to grab any points at all which didn't really happen until the second half of the season, and a fluke 2nd place at the penultimate race in Brazil was scant consolation for a season of disappointment. Kubica moved to Renault, frustrated at what could have been, and BMW pulled out of the sport with their tail between their legs.

The 2008 Formula 1 season, all I can remember is "bridge wings", But that BMW was by far one of the best looking cars on the Formula 1 grid,

Thanks for bringing this thread back to topic,

 

[flip55]

More drivers/athletes/racers who were successful at what they were doing, but found a second career to be a little more difficult.

Ricky Carmichael -- NASCAR

​

One of the best to ever race a dirt bike in the early 2000s. He was affectionately given the nickname 'The GOAT,' the Greatest of All Time, for his achievements, including 5 Supercross titles, and 7 AMA Outdoor National titles with 2 perfect seasons (he won all 24 races on the calendar in 2002 & 2004).
RC carried his famous #4 into NASCAR for Kevin Harvick Inc. and Turner Motorsports starting in 2009. He mainly competed in the Camping World truck series, with a few Xfinity series (then Nationwide series) appearances. Sadly, he didn't find the same success in did in his motocross days. While he managed to grab a few top 10s, even a few top 5s, a pole position in 2011, and won the 2009 Camping World Truck Series Most Popular Driver Award , he wasn't consistent enough to be a regular front runner. Primary sponsor, Monster Energy, also moved onto Kyle Busch Motorsports at the end of the 2011 season. Carmichael left Turner Motorsports soon after.
RC has since retied from professional motorsports, but is still active in the motocross scene. Among other things, he now commentates on Supercross/Arenacross, and part owns the RCH/Factory Suzuki race team.

Highest career finish, Xfinity series: 9th (Road America 2011)
Highest career finish, truck series: 4th, twice
Highest career points finish, truck series: 13th (2010)

Travis Pastrana -- NASCAR

​

I can't tell you all how much I really, really wanted this to work out. Sadly, it didn't.

Staying in the early 2000's, Travis Pastrana made his name as action sports star in freestyle motocross (although he did start his motocross career as a racer.) Surprising enough, Pastrana had already made the transition from motocross to rally driving, and found success in the Rally America series, a domestic rally championship in the United States (believe it or not, we have one of those). So the move to NASCAR didn't seem that crazy of an idea.
Unfortunately, like the story above, nothing special came of it. Pastrana only competed in a few spot races in 2012, and one full Nationwide season in 2013. While he had speed in the car, consistency was once again the issue. Travis did break the top 10 on a few occasions, and did earn a pole award at Talladega in 2013.
One of the more interesting moments of his career was the 2011 X Games/Nationwide Indianapolis race 'Pastranathon' (yes, that was really what it was called), where Pastrana was going to compete in a 2 events at the X Games in Los Angeles (Moto X Best Trick and Rallycross), and make his Nationwide series debut at Indianapolis (Lucas Oil Raceway), all in the same weekend. Travis broke his ankle in a crash during Moto X Best Trick on the first night of this thing, and withdrew from the Nationwide race. Despite this, he did manage to drive in the RallyCross event later in the weekend, in a car fitted with hand controls, and finished 4th. The only proper way to end a crazy weekend!
Anyhow, Pastrana left NASCAR after the 2013 season. A lack of sponsorship, frustration in his performance, and a growing family were the reasons he gave for leaving. He did return for one Camping World truck series race at Las Vegas in 2015. Although he doesn't compete in anything full time anymore, he continues to be an action sports personality to this day.

Highest career finish, Xfinity series: 9th (Richmond 2013)
Highest career points finish, Xfinity series: 14th (2013)

David Coulthard -- DTM

​

Former Formula 1 driver from the early 90's to 2008, with 13 wins to his credit. His resume includes drives for Williams, McLaren, and the early days of Red Bull. Quite a respectable F1 career behind him.
Coulthard had actually retired from full time racing at the end of 2008, but returned by entering the DTM in 2010 with Mercedes Benz. However, despite DTM cars being closer in relation to F1 cars than actual touring cars, Coulthard wasn't able to find speed in these cars. The yellow Mercedes was at the back of the field most of the time. Coulthard competed in 3 seasons, and only earned 16 points in total across those 3 seasons (DTM uses the F1 points system, where not all finishing positions award points. Most of his finishes were outside of the points).
DC completely retired from professional racing at the end of the 2012 season. He has been an F1 commentator on British TV for the past few seasons.

Highest career DTM finish: 5th (Norisring 2012)
Highest career DTM points finish: 15th (2012)

 

[Northstar]

Hall of Fame Racing

When the team launched in 2006 it seemed like they had most of the pieces for success. They had two well known owners in Roger Staubach and Troy Aikman, a big sponsor and an alignment with a top team in Joe Gibbs Racing. However despite all the things going in their direction they couldn't land a solid driver, going through 10 during their short 4 year run. The team ceased to exist after a series of mergers after the 2009 season.

 

[Furinkazen]

Hall of Fame Racing

When the team launched in 2006 it seemed like they had most of the pieces for success. They had two well known owners in Roger Staubach and Troy Aikman, a big sponsor and an alignment with a top team in Joe Gibbs Racing. However despite all the things going in their direction they couldn't land a solid driver, going through 10 during their short 4 year run. The team ceased to exist after a series of mergers after the 2009 season.

10?!

From memory Tony Raines, JJ Yeley, but i don't remember who else.

 

[flip55]

Hall of Fame Racing

When the team launched in 2006 it seemed like they had most of the pieces for success. They had two well known owners in Roger Staubach and Troy Aikman, a big sponsor and an alignment with a top team in Joe Gibbs Racing. However despite all the things going in their direction they couldn't land a solid driver, going through 10 during their short 4 year run. The team ceased to exist after a series of mergers after the 2009 season.

Wow, completely forgot this team existed.

10?!

From memory Tony Raines, JJ Yeley, but i don't remember who else.

I don't think anyone was in the car for an extended period of time. The Labonte brothers drove for this team for a while. I remember Bobby Labonte driving this car for a season:

​

I'm sure there's an Ask.com related pun/joke that can be made, but I can't think of one...

 

[Obelisk]

They weren't Ask-holes, were they?

 

[Blitz24]

10?!

From memory Tony Raines, JJ Yeley, but i don't remember who else.

Raines, Yeley, both Labontes, P.J. Jones, Erik Darnell, Schrader, Brad Coleman and Logano.

 

[RACECAR]

Wasn't Dave Blaney one of the drivers as well?

 

[catamount39]

Wasn't Dave Blaney one of the drivers as well?

Yes.

 

[Panoz]

Here's another NASCAR/NFL team that flopped even harder.

In 1998, Miami Dolphins quarterback Dan Marino teamed up with then owner/driver Bill Elliott to form a second car for Elliott's team. FirstPlus Financial, who Marino was a spokesman for, sponsored the #13 car for the season with rookie Jerry Nadeau driving.

Nadeau had a horror first-half of the season with 2 DNQs and missing another race due to food poisoning before being let go from the team. For the rest of the season, 4 other drivers shared the #13 drive. Around the same time of Nadeau's dismissal, FirstPlus suffered hard financial problems which later caused the dissolving partnership between Elliott and Marino.

 

[RACECAR]

Funny enough, that car number has had a lot of fail/shady teams fielding. One of which:

Out of curiosity, how much does Bobby Ginn Owe you?

 

[Earth]

All it did was set American openwheel racing back 50 years

 

[AbsoluteBarstool]

All it did was set American openwheel racing back 50 years

But it didn't fail. It is still around and generating revenue.

The only bad thing about it is that crashes on the ovals are potentially fatal.

 

[L8 Apex]

In 1978, the Dodge Magnum personal luxury coupe (a close cousin of the Chrysler Cordoba) replaced the Charger both in showrooms and on the NASCAR tracks. On paper, it had what it took to compete with the GM and Ford offerings in competition; in practice, the shape proved to be radically unstable in turbulent air (read: running around other cars) at racing speeds, while Chrysler had all but ceased developing the competition version of the 360 cubic inch LA-series V8. As a result, the comapny's last two factory NASCAR drivers - Richard Petty and Neil Bonnett - jumped ship to Chevy around the halfway point of the '78 Winston Cup season, leaving privateers like Buddy Arrington and Marty Robbins (yes, the country music star...) to fly the Mopar flag. Independents also developed the J-body Mirada (as well as the Chrysler Cordoba and Imperial) for Cup competition with the arrival of the 110-inch wheelbase era in 1981, though they too proved unsuitable for superspeedway racing and faded away by mid-decade. It would take until 2001 for Dodge to return to NASCAR's premiere series.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm sure there's an Ask.com related pun/joke that can be made, but I can't think of one...

"Why?"

 

[flip55]

In 1978, the Dodge Magnum personal luxury coupe (a close cousin of the Chrysler Cordoba) replaced the Charger both in showrooms and on the NASCAR tracks. On paper, it had what it took to compete with the GM and Ford offerings in competition; in practice, the shape proved to be radically unstable in turbulent air (read: running around other cars) at racing speeds, while Chrysler had all but ceased developing the competition version of the 360 cubic inch LA-series V8. As a result, the comapny's last two factory NASCAR drivers - Richard Petty and Neil Bonnett - jumped ship to Chevy around the halfway point of the '78 Winston Cup season, leaving privateers like Buddy Arrington and Marty Robbins (yes, the country music star...) to fly the Mopar flag. Independents also developed the J-body Mirada (as well as the Chrysler Cordoba and Imperial) for Cup competition with the arrival of the 110-inch wheelbase era in 1981, though they too proved unsuitable for superspeedway racing and faded away by mid-decade. It would take until 2001 for Dodge to return to NASCAR's premiere series.

I feel like you can tack this onto the end of that.

​

Dodge has a Gen 6 car. The bodywork clearly exists somewhere (possibly in an underground vault guarded by laser bears... Or not...). My understanding is that they tried to resign with Penske, took too long, and Ford stepped in and signed with Penske, instead. Dodge then couldn't find a suitable team that was willing to part with their current manufacturer, and opted to leave after 2012.
(Please correct me if I have any of that wrong.)

 

[L8 Apex]

I feel like you can tack this onto the end of that.

​

Dodge has a Gen 6 car. The bodywork clearly exists somewhere. My understanding is that they tried to resign with Penske, took too long, and Ford stepped in and signed with Penske, instead. Dodge then couldn't find a suitable team that was willing to part with their current manufacturer, and opted to leave after 2012.
(Please correct me if I have any of that wrong.)

I think that's how it played out. I guess we could also include the initial '68 Charger, whose recessed grille and back window were so terrible aero-wise that it prompted Dodge to bring out the Charger 500 at the start of the 1969 model year (and when they realized that didn't go far enough, they created the Daytona).

 

[R5]

Prost Grand Prix

​

After retiring as a driver from F1, Alain Prost had started up his own F1 team. This had long been a dream of Alain's, even when he was driving in the sport, but this team was started up more due to pressure from the French government to buy out the Ligier team.

The 1997 season saw Prost GP using a car designed during the last few months of Ligier, and saw the team retain the Mugen engine supply deal for the '97 season. The car showed massive potential, with world champion Jacques Villeneuve even recognising Olivier Panis as a thread to him. If Panis hadn't suffered injuries during the season, it was very possible the car could have won a race.

After an amazing debut, 1998 was a disaster. The team very nearly failed to race in the season opener due to not passing crash tests, and they barely avoided last place in the constructors championship with a single point, this was down to a plague of gearbox problems for the newly Peugeot powered F1 cars.

1999 saw the team improve on it's dismal '98 season and show flashes of potential such as the Austrian GP where the car, driven by Jarno Trulli, led for most of the race before breaking down. The team was no doubt hopeful that the AP02's successor would show more than flashes of potential.

AP03 showed no improvement at all, the car was unreliable and, despite being driven by the experienced Jean Alesi and a rookie Nick Heidfeld, too slow to be competitive. The lack of performance was blamed on the Peugeot engine, which the team claimed was weak and underpowered. Peugeot retaliated by stating the Peugeot engine had 792 BHP which was enough to be competitive, and decided it didn't want to work with the Prost team, so they left the Prost team without an engine supply for the AP04.

Prost GP entered 2001 having lost most of it's sponsors, including title sponsor Gauloises, but also having acquired Ferrari engines which would be badged as ACER engines. Despite the loss of sponsorship, the team were confident that the Ferrari engine would allow the AP04 to be competitive, with Alain Prost even saying:

"We have a good base with the Ferrari engine. The car is performing very, very well. We know it’s far from what it could be, and far from maybe what the top teams are going to do. We are not in the same category, but it’s really a good start.”

This "good start" was costing $90 million from 2001 to 2003, which would come to be part of the financial perfect storm which would see the Prost team die.

Financial struggles seemed to be at ease with Parlamat sponsorship being acquired, and the pace seemed massively improved during testing as Alesi topped the timing sheets. After the season's start, it became clear Prost was still a midfield team, and this led to speculation that the team was running illegal cars during testing which would help them top timing sheets and attract sponsorship.

A ray of sunshine came in the form of reliability, with Jean Alesi finishing every race he competed in, meaning 4 points from his 12 races. Yes, only 12 races, Alesi and Prost fell out, so Alesi moved on to the Jordan F1 team.

Alesi isn't the only one who fell out with Prost, as the Diniz family (who brought Parlamat sponsorship to Prost) also fell out with the Frenchman which meant the team had ran out of money and wouldn't make it to 2002. Prost tried and failed to find buyers, and the team's equipment and cars were sold off to recover some of the team's debt.

This was a huge relief to Alain Prost, who had learned the hard way that a good driver doesn't necessarily make a good team boss.

 

[Liquid]

Prost's (or perhaps the French government's?) insistence on sticking with Peugeot engines is what cost them. Their cars were never that bad drag- or aero-wise but the Pug engines were just never good enough. I distincly remember many, many, many Autosport articles with the titles "Prost in dispute with Peugeot" around 1999-2000 when Prost were in fact trying to get another supplier, most likely Supertec.

In fact, Peugeot's tenure in F1 could be considered a big failure in itself. Could be worth a write-up later on.

 

[R5]

Yeah, I don't doubt that Peugeot were the weak link. McLaren refused to use their engines long term because Peugeot didn't have what it takes to compete in F1 if I remember correctly, so that's never a good sign.

 

[TDZdave]

Which really leads to Peugeot's successes, while they have been few and far between, their Le Mans wins have come from very short tenures competing as a full factory, the latest evidence of that would be the 908 LMP1 cars, which became very successful very quickly, yet they don't seem to stick around, which sucks, I would have loved to have seen a Peugeot Vs Audi Vs Toyota Le Mans duel, then throw Porsche in the mix it would have made LMP1 a spectacle in itself,

 

[Liquid]

In fact, Peugeot's tenure in F1 could be considered a big failure in itself. Could be worth a write-up later on.

Let's go there.

Peugeot In F1

Peugeot. The 1980s were a great time for Peugeot Sport. Jean Todt's team shot to fame with the Group B 205 and secured the 1985 and 1986 World Manufacturer's Title before turning their attention to rally raids and dominated Dakar for the rest of the decade. At the same time, they began work on their 905 sportscar project which culminated in winning the 1992 and 1993 Le Mans 24 Hours.

As already outlined earlier in the thread, the WSPC had, under duress, modified its engine rules in order to peg it to F1 standards. Given that this saw a depleted grid in 1992 and no actual championship in 1993, Peugeot logically turned their attentions to F1 because their 3.5L V10 engine was of roughly similar specs.

It should be noted that around the same time in 1993 that Peugeot announced their intentions to enter Formula One, Peugeot Sport's director, Jean Todt, left Peugeot to take over the management of Scuderia Ferrari.

They signed a deal for 1994 with McLaren who, in search of a long-term partner after Honda's withdrawal, had turned down Lamborghini to sign with the Sochaux outfit. Peugeot's time with McLaren coincided with McLaren's mid 90s slide to the middle of the grid. Only 4 times in 17 races did both cars make it across the finish line and multiple engine failures were responsible for McLaren's awful reliability that year. Results wise, there were a number of podiums scattered throughout the year but the team never looked like winning a race and were a long way back from the leading three in 4th place.

Ron Dennis knew a dud when he saw one, refusing to commit to a long-term deal and stealing Sauber's Mercedes-Benz deal and leaving Peugeot in search of a new partner for 1995. In stepped Jordan Grand Prix. On paper, it was a great result for Jordan to secure their first works engine deal but for Peugeot it was a bit of a PR nightmare to have a successful factory WSPC name powering a mid-grid Formula One team to not much success. Jordan's 1995 car wasn't punching above its weight as much as the 1994 car had with totally independent Hart engines and the car often struggled for pace despite a 2-3 finish in Canada. The same happened in 1996 which saw no podium finishes at all and a Jordan team in disarray.

At this point Todt's successor, former Renault driver Jean-Pierre Jabouille, was sacked as Peugeot Sport director in late 1995 after the disappointment in Peugeot's initial F1 efforts.

Then came 1997. One brief time that Peugeot looked good. Thanks to a new aerodynamicist and a new wind tunnel, which Ferrari paid for as part of the Eddie Irvine settlement, the Jordan 197 was just... right and the Peugeot engine had just enough juice to show occasional flashes of brilliance. Had reliability and other mechanical failures not had their way, Jordan could have had a fantastic 1997 but as it was, the team were back fighting for podiums and Fisichella even scored a fastest lap in Spain.

So maybe Peugeot were finally on the up? They tried reviving a World Championship team and failed but successfully brought Jordan up to the next level. Could they do the same with Prost, and even go a step further?

Well, as the post above already mentioned, Prost-Peugeot was an unmitigated disaster. The combination only scored a single point in 1998 and by 1999 Prost was already publicly criticising Peugeot's engines. It didn't help that Prost driver Olivier Panis was racing whilst not fully fit after a double leg break and thusly he flattered to deceive.

Then there was the French government factor. When Renault was privatised in 1997, Renault immediately withdrew from F1 and the French government put the pressure on Peugeot to remain in the sport, despite faltering performances, and to stay with Prost for an all-French affair at a time when the French Grand Prix was continuously threatened to be axed from the calendar.

This put a strain on the relationship between the Peugeot Sport bosses and Alain Prost and after a pointless 2000 season with Prost at the very back of the grid Peugeot had finally had enough and withdrew, not looking likely to ever return.

Peugeot engines continued to be used under the Asiatech badge in 2001 with Arrows and 2002 with Minardi but despite Mark Webber's 5th placed debut, the engines had indeed become fodder for the tail enders.

Complete Formula One results.

You can clearly see a pattern of initial unreliability with McLaren, better points with Jordan before tapering off dramatically with Prost.

Luck, misfortune, an initial inability to actually make an F1 engine rather than a sportscar engine, whatever it was, if you say "Peugeot in F1" there's only one thing which will spring to mind:

Spoiler

In fact, it was a clutch failure dropping oil which led to the explosion but Peugeot had already had enough engine failures for the association to stick.