Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[LogiForce]

Personally, it can be anything. Without knowing the ins and outs it is hard to say. So it could be that the firmware is coded differently resulting in the different feel as well, we just don't know as consumers.

One thing we can say is that each wheel has its own distinct character, and it's up to us as consumers to pick what we like best. Besides, we also pick our cars by the way they drive in real life, of which there is not one completely equal to the other.

Linearity is key for ease of development for games in my opinion. If this happens and it's just left up to the pulleys and the motor sizes to determine the final feel of a wheel.
So if all wheels had it from all manufacturers a game developer can easily support multiple games at a time without the need for individual characteristic adjustments (trying to make up for Logitech's build in deadzones in the G-series wheels for example).

 

[thehawk05]

ClubSport Button Box

Thomas is looking for input on a button box

http://www.911wheel.de/?q=node/9792

"As all current projects come to an end and production is about to start (which includes handbrake) we are now ready to work on new projects.

We are working on some rims but there is another item I would like to get your input on.

What should the ultimate button box look like?

How many buttons?
What type?
Special functions?
Programmability
Connection of other peripherals
Compatibility
Size and dimensions
Materials
Price

It would be great to get your input on the points above and we can discuss it. We have some initial ideas but you can still influence the design with your input so please use this chance."

 

[Cote Dazur]

Production has been about to start for a while now, we do not even know pricing and expected date for availability on the shifter, strange way to see it as a finish project!

 

[museumsteve]

Production has been about to start for a while now, we do not even know pricing and expected date for availability on the shifter, strange way to see it as a finish project!

Not sure what you mean, price was announced last week and July was the given date for the shifter..

 

[thehawk05]

Production has been about to start for a while now, we do not even know pricing and expected date for availability on the shifter, strange way to see it as a finish project!

http://www.911wheel.de/?q=node/9780

http://us.fanatec.com/Shifters?product_id=681

http://us.fanatec.com/ClubSport?product_id=679

 

[Cote Dazur]

museumsteve and thehawk05, I stand corrected, thank you for the info, I had missed it in this thread, so was still waiting for it. Great news.
Going to pre-order one provide email details to be advise when able to order. right now.

 

[ibuycheap]

If the CSS actually ships in July I will be stunned. Anyone receive any more info about the CSR-E f1 rim?

 

[RacerXX]

If the CSS actually ships in July I will be stunned. Anyone receive any more info about the CSR-E f1 rim?

I still see the availability date listed as 4-26-13, tomorrow. So hopefully shipments should start then or within days.

 

[mrbasher]

Hmm....

I said I wouldn't make one but... Maybe it's time to finally have a chat with Mr. Jackermeier.

Edit: Well, Thomas now has a PM waiting for him on his blog.

This is tabled for the foreseeable future. Thomas apparently has something in mind already which is just as well.

 

[ibuycheap]

This is tabled for the foreseeable future. Thomas apparently has something in mind already which is just as well.

Or for less money (or free if you have a stick laying around) you could just gut a joystick wire it to an rj12 and use software to interpret the motions of the shifter into button presses. http://j2hshifter.sourceforge.net/

 

[Jet Badger]

Or you can build a shifter from scratch. It's not as hard as some may imagine. I've been working on one using plastic pipe clamps to provide the in-gear feel. The prototype gave very promising results, flinging it in and out of gear feels fantastic, only a bit light - doubling the number of clamps will fix that! I have a rough render but need to come around and actually build it

 

[smokey777]

does your dsd work on gt5?

I use mine on GT5 with my CSW using Bashermans SFA1 adapter

 

[thehawk05]

Just got notified that the Formula Rim for CSR-E is now pushed back to end of June for shipping

 

[Mahnegold]

Lol

 

[Troysloth]

Just got notified that the Formula Rim for CSR-E is now pushed back to end of June for shipping

Got that same email this morning. Here is what it says in case anyone is wondering:

Subject: Your Fanatec_Gameshop order - Formula rim for CSR Elite

"Dear Valued Customer,



Unfortunately, we have to inform you that our supplier is unable to deliver the goods you ordered until end of April 2013 to our warehouses.

Therefore also the delivery of your order is directly affected and will be delayed accordingly. The current estimated shipping date is now scheduled for the end of June 2013.

We fully understand if you are not willing to wait for such a long time to obtain your order. Of course, you can withdraw your order at any time.

We would then refund the pre-payments immediately.



We sincerely apologize for any inconveniences arising by this shipping delay.





Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Best regards



Sabine Eiben

Sales and Disposition Management"

 

[12thgear]

Got that email too. Such a bummer. I love Fanatec, but they need logistical help. Place your bets on what will ship first: ClubSport Shifters or the Formula Rim for CSR Elite

 

[LogiForce]

I dunno which is first, but I will be getting a retail CSW base Wednesday. Can't wait to properly drive with a retail base after my beta base.

 

[eKretz]

Logi, you ordered a new one?! Or did they allow you to trade up?

 

[RacerXX]

Logi, if you can and have the interest, can you note how far left of centered the wheel coasts during the start up cycle? And with which rim.

I did many Low Drag mods to my wheel and am loving the result. Here is a video clip of my CSR-E wheel starting up. It gets even better once the belts warm up.

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss280/sjmarcy/Fana-Blog/Fana-Blog6_zps7369b31a.mp4

Thanks.

 

[LogiForce]

Logi, you ordered a new one?! Or did they allow you to trade up?

I was allowed to trade up as the beta wheel needed to much done, and it was easier for them to send me a retail one in the end.
I will also get some new shifter mechanisms and microswitches, which was the only thing that changed on the rims after going in production.

Logi, if you can and have the interest, can you note how far left of centered the wheel coasts during the start up cycle? And with which rim.

I did many Low Drag mods to my wheel and am loving the result. Here is a video clip of my CSR-E wheel starting up. It gets even better once the belts warm up.

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss280/sjmarcy/Fana-Blog/Fana-Blog6_zps7369b31a.mp4

Thanks.

Mind if I make a video for you of the startup process?
I think that would be easiest, plus a good reference on how a new wheel should behave. If I later do encounter any issues again, but let's hope I won't.

 

[RacerXX]

Mind if I make a video for you of the startup process? I think that would be easiest, plus a good reference on how a new wheel should behave. If I later do encounter any issues again, but let's hope I won't.

That would be awesome, thanks. That way you know the out-of-the-box behavior as a reference for your files. Later when you have it broken in and fine tuned to your liking, do another video to see if anything changed.

The little blip to the right that you see on my wheel just before the base is fully booted is when it's testing itself for drag and wear. It determines a fudge factor that it will use for that driving session. So in an interesting way, we can now see more of what the base is doing during the boot cycle since my low drag makes that more apparent.

If you have other CSW rims, make sure you reboot the base if you swap them since then the base will recalibrate itself for them accordingly. You CAN hot swap but then you lose the exact calibration for that rim. Given that the two available rims are so different in size and inertia, this is important stuff if you want things at their very best.

When I run my CSR-E using an adjustable power supply I generally look at the live, changing amperage demanded by the wheel during boot. After the wheel finishes coasting to the left, it slowly ramps up the drive to the motors until it sees the wheel just begin to move. So I just glance at the ammeter and watch it cycle accordingly. If you hold the wheel steady or have stock drag the drive ramp up continues longer until it either hits the amp ceiling for that test, or the level that the wheel requires. In my case drag is so low that the minimum signal the firmware starts out with pops the wheel to the right in a larger blip than actually necessary to sense first rim motion. So that is another example showing the (IMO) high drag of the stock wheels.

At some point I will look into firmware revisions better suited to inherently low drag. A nice thing is that some few tenths of an amp less drive need be sent to my motors, so they also get a heat gain benefit besides helping the wheel drive nicer. The stock wheels need that extra kick to get them moving.

 

[LogiForce]

That would be awesome, thanks. That way you know the out-of-the-box behavior as a reference for your files. Later when you have it broken in and fine tuned to your liking, do another video to see if anything changed.

The little blip to the right that you see on my wheel just before the base is fully booted is when it's testing itself for drag and wear. It determines a fudge factor that it will use for that driving session. So…if you have other CSW rims, make sure you reboot the base if you swap them since then the base will recalibrate itself accordingly. You CAN hot swap but then you lose the exact calibration for that rim. Given that the two available rims are so different in size and inertia, this is important stuff if you want things at their best.

When I run my CSR-E using an adjustable power supply I generally look at the live, changing amperage demanded by the wheel during boot. After the wheel finishes coasting to the left, it slowly ramps up the drive to the motors until it sees the wheel just begin to move. So I just glance at the ammeter and watch it cycle accordingly. If you hold the wheel steady or have stock drag the drive ramp up continues longer until it either hits the amp ceiling for that test, or the level that the wheel requires. In my case drag is so low that the minimum signal the firmware starts out with pops the wheel to the right in a larger blip than necessary to sense first rim motion. At some point I will look into firmware revisions better suited to inherently low drag. A nice thing is that some few tenths of an amp less drive need be sent to my motors, so they also get a heat gain benefit besides helping the wheel drive nicer. The stock wheels need that extra kick to get them moving.

So given what you are saying the following would be true.
Swapping from a GT to Formula rim would result in a rim with a faster/stronger inertia, than required for optimal feedback.
Swapping from a Formula to GT rim would result in a rim with a slower/weaker inertia, than required for optimal feedback.

I will check with Armin if this is the case, as I would than like a recalibration function that would keep the wheel connected but will recalibrate the base and its values. This for CSW and maybe the CSR Elite as well, though I doubt people would hot swap the rims on that.

So for example, pressing the power button on the CSW once would start calibration without a USB disconnect.
Or instead pressing the tuning display button twice quickly would be better if both wheels need the feature, as the on/off button on the CSW is the xbox button on the CSR Elite.

 

[RacerXX]

So given what you are saying the following would be true.
Swapping from a GT to Formula rim would result in a rim with a faster/stronger inertia, than required for optimal feedback.
Swapping from a Formula to GT rim would result in a rim with a slower/weaker inertia, than required for optimal feedback.

I will check with Armin if this is the case, as I would than like a recalibration function that would keep the wheel connected but will recalibrate the base and its values. This for CSW and maybe the CSR Elite as well, though I doubt people would hot swap the rims on that.

So for example, pressing the power button on the CSW once would start calibration without a USB disconnect.
Or instead pressing the tuning display button twice quickly would be better if both wheels need the feature, as the on/off button on the CSW is the xbox button on the CSR Elite.

What I measure and see happening is that the wheel coasts to a stop, and then the drive to the motors is progressively raised until the wheel position sensor pings movement. So what they seem to be doing is then mapping all FFB signals to the wheel to be above that level, so that they can be sensed by the sim driver. Once the wheel moves, the increase in drive levels stop and the display changes indicating readiness. If drag is higher the drive continues to increase a bit longer but is capped at a maximum fugure. They may also be measuring the coastdown that just occurred, but I am not sure about that as that would not show up on my ammeter. My coastdown rocks now, in any event!

To an extent they try to cancel that drag via some additional motor drive which I am able to avoid. So my motors see a bit less current for a given FFB signal. Suppose the drag compensation fudge factor was 0.2 amps. Some or all of that would be added onto in-game FFB signals.

Whether the change in drive came from drag, belt slip, high inertia or whatever it is netted out to a fudge factor number. I can watch that result rise or fall depending on what drag changes I made to my CSR-E. I only have the one rim for it, but will also use the other (Formula) when that shows up. Inertia is not fully compensated I would think, since that would get complex and require more drive to the motors. If it was done then other than physically, a Formula and a GT style rim could be made to feel very similar. Real close if diameter was considered too.

 

[LogiForce]

What I measure and see happening is that the wheel coasts to a stop, and then the drive to the motors is progressively raised until the wheel position sensor pings movement. So what they seem to be doing is then mapping all FFB signals to the wheel to be above that level, so that they can be sensed by the sim driver. Once the wheel moves, the increase in drive levels stop and the display changes indicating readiness. If drag is higher the drive continues to increase a bit longer but is capped at a maximum fugure. They may also be measuring the coastdown that just occurred, but I am not sure about that as that would not show up on my ammeter. My coastdown rocks now, in any event!

To an extent they try to cancel that drag via some additional motor drive which I am able to avoid. So my motors see a bit less current for a given FFB signal. Suppose the drag compensation fudge factor was 0.2 amps. Some or all of that would be added onto in-game FFB signals.

Whether the change in drive came from drag, belt slip, high inertia or whatever it is netted out to a fudge factor number. I can watch that result rise or fall depending on what drag changes I made to my CSR-E. I only have the one rim for it, but will also use the other (Formula) when that shows up. Inertia is not fully compensated I would think, since that would get complex and require more drive to the motors. If it was done then other than physically, a Formula and a GT style rim could be made to feel very similar. Real close if diameter was considered too.

So if I am getting this correctly, they could technically have a fixed profile with settings for each rim were it not for the fact that you need to check the drag factor each time due to changes/a difference in belt tension from wheel to wheel. After all setting the belt tension is a manual job and not an automated one, and the fact that a belt will stretch and contract like every material with temperature changes.

Still, the more I hear about this. The more I think it will be necessary to recalibrate the wheel after it has warmed up for example. And as you know, doing that on PC will mean you loose FFB or complete input in your game if you have a game running. Which honestly sucks and isn't really conform what I would consider "Plug'n'Play" anymore. So there should be made a way around that as I doubt the released games will change or the way MS does things.

 

[RacerXX]

So if I am getting this correctly, they could technically have a fixed profile with settings for each rim were it not for the fact that you need to check the drag factor each time due to changes/a difference in belt tension from wheel to wheel. After all setting the belt tension is a manual job and not an automated one, and the fact that a belt will stretch and contract like every material with temperature changes.

Still, the more I hear about this. The more I think it will be necessary to recalibrate the wheel after it has warmed up for example. And as you know, doing that on PC will mean you loose FFB or complete input in your game if you have a game running. Which honestly sucks and isn't really conform what I would consider "Plug'n'Play" anymore. So there should be made a way around that as I doubt the released games will change or the way MS does things.

Yes you are right RE warm up. I measure current to 0.01 amps and if you are picky the calibration factor (which the ammeter catches) does change slightly once you put on some hard racing miles. It's nothing huge though by any means. Considering a reboot takes just a few seconds anyway I would not hold off on doing them for some reason if that concerns you. But you may have to do some other things too.

My CSR-E draws <0.1 amps just sitting there. You could do a hot reboot and just leave the wheel on. Then it would hold the hot settings indefinitely for the rim in use. But again I would not stress about it.

EDIT: Hmm. I observed the start cycle many times while recording amp readings. With Low Drag and warmed up around 0.04-.05 amps was read, it could even be lower but I cannot slow down the firmware controlled start cycle. If you hold the wheel so the calibration strains it will go over 1 amp. Do NOT hold or obstruct the wheel in any way during the start cycle or you will screw your calibration.

Additionally&#8230;those CSW/Elites with highish drag are getting lots of extra current run through them to compensate. Hot motors anyone? If I run my Low-Drag wheel after being held to say a 1 amp calibration step then in-game FFB is all skewed. This means that if your wheels drag is significantly different than someone elses, then your or their wheel and in-game settings won't be spot on when used on the other wheel.

This is Rather Important and I will be looking into it further. It could contribute to some of those dead motors I keep hearing about. A refresh of the CSW/Elite wheels really, Really, REALLY needs to consider Low Drag modifications. The wheels drive sweeter, course times drop, and an easier life for the motors is just icing on the cake.

I have seen some say that their wheel will spin further than others. Mine free spins 1100-1300º with the power off. Bounces off the opposite bump stop and then reverse travels a bit. Some claim they can only do 90º. I can guar-an-tee you that the 90º wheel will be using a high calibration figure, and that its motors will live a life trudging uphill through deep mud every race.

It would be nice to have the wheel report back to us the calibration results right after it boots on the wheel display or by some other means. Or perhaps make it yet another tuning option?

 

[Raitziger]

Has any dates been given related to CSS?

 

[marky5244]

Has any dates been given related to CSS?

July I think.

 

[mitchcarino]

Hey guys. I own a Thrustmaster t500. My pedals are starting to give out. The brake is engaging when the the pedal is not being pressed and the accelerator is oscilating whe the pedal is fully pressed. T 500 Pedals kind of suck in my opinion. I use my wheel to play gt5 on a ps3. I'm thinking about buying a new wheel. Would you buy a new t500 and swap pedals. or would you buy fanatec? Any help would be greatly apreciated. thank you

 

[mrbasher]

I think you should buy the parts from Thrustmaster to fix your pedals. As was suggested when you asked here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8450715#post8450715

 

[left888]

Hey guys. I own a Thrustmaster t500. My pedals are starting to give out. The brake is engaging when the the pedal is not being pressed and the accelerator is oscilating whe the pedal is fully pressed. T 500 Pedals kind of suck in my opinion. I use my wheel to play gt5 on a ps3. I'm thinking about buying a new wheel. Would you buy a new t500 and swap pedals. or would you buy fanatec? Any help would be greatly apreciated. thank you

Have you considered moving up to PC racers? Such as iRacing, it's not for everyone, many members here have tried it and quit. Although if you are a serious racer, well let me rephrase that, if you really enjoy the challenge, you are competitive, then iRacing is for you. Then there are the console games/PC games like pCARS that will be enjoyable on the PC.

The reason I mentioned this is because now you can do away with the T500 pedals, like many of us have done and get a set that you like. I went with a set of CSP and inverted them in my rig. I am bidding on a set of Cannon pedals ATM.