Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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Comparison to a known good board is probably the quickest and easiest way to find the fault. That vertical IC is probably a voltage regulator if I had to guess (can you read the numbers on the front of it?) - the FET controlling the motor is probably under the heat sink.
 
I will provide some testing from my known working boards, I will test at the spot mentioned in the previous post, and any other spots like at that vertical IC.

I dont have a whole lot of knowledge on circuit board components, so I might not be able to help much with identifying what a particular components job is (ekretz knows more than I do about that stuff I think) but I can certainly test with my voltmeter at any point you like so we can compare numbers. I am at work right now, but I will have some time tonight and over the weekend to get some readings.

So first I should test at the upright IC and the other spot you mentioned first and show in the pic?
 
eKretz, totally agree. I haven't been able to find a circuit diagram, not too surprisingly, so having a working board for reference would be very useful.

The vertical IC looks to be a Fairchild FQP 19N20C which is a MOSFET with (relative to my photo) farthest to nearest leg; source, drain, gate. That makes my previous measurements as source-gate 0V and drain-gate ~24V with the MOSFET turned off (Vgs = 4V to turn on). [http://datasheetz.com/data/Discrete.../MOSFETs - Single/FQPF19N20C-datasheetz.html]

I expect you're right that the controller is that under the silver heatsink. I expect this is connected with thermal adhesive, so don't want to remove to check the part number on that if possible.
 
Any help is much appreciated seth and eKretz! I have a background in electronics, but that was more books than hands, so can provide some input.

I had a reply from Fanatec today saying that they could send out a replacement PCB. I'm surprised that they still have spares to be honest! That might be my fallback option if we can't identify something else as the problem.

I think that the vertical IC (the MOSFET) will be switched quickly to give a variable voltage output to the motor, controlling its torque. This control signal likely originates from the IC under the silver heatsink. If you're able to test the signals across the motor (tweezer point on photo) and the vertical IC (gate-source and drain-source) that would help try to narrow in on the cause.

I'm in the UK, so timing might not sync, but thankful of help as you're available!
 
Nah, the 19n20c won't be switching the motor, no way. That is probably just the turn-on FET that gets switched by the power switch. If the wheel powers on with the power switch, this one is probably working. The switched FET controlling the motor (this is not a microcontroller, that will be elsewhere) will almost certainly be under the heatsink, and that's the one I'd check first if the wheel does power up. You might be able to check it on the opposite side of the board if it's through-hole, otherwise you'll probably need to remove the heatsink.
 
The chip under the heatsink is a bit fine for comfortable probing, and has no accessible pins/pads. The way the daughter board is connected to the main board, there's no way to access the underside. There are connections to the surface mount resistors and diodes, do you know the chip used, for the pin layout?
 
Nope, don't have that wheel myself. The switching FETs get hot though, they almost always have a heat sink unless the motor is very very low powered. That's why I mentioned you'd probably have to remove the heat sink. Maybe Google will have that info somewhere though.
 
Hey, sorry for the delay. I will test at the motor leads (where the tweezers are pointing to) on one of my Porsche wheels tomorrow. It is a bit late now I so will keep this short but I just wanted to let you know I wasn't forgetting about you :)
 
Ok, so I was finally able to get a couple videos uploaded. There are two videos, one for the stock base and one for the modded base. Both videos are a bit drawn out so I included links to points of interest in the descriptions. Please don't judge me too toughly on my testing. I didn't really have an entirely controlled method for making these videos. I mainly made them to give a rough comparison and showcase some of the Buhler mods strengths. I had fun making the videos and will likely be making more in the future.

Also, I haven't yet been able to eliminate belt slip in the Buhler Mod base. The belts I am currently running with the buhler mod are badly worn. They have spots that are heavily worn down due to running improper tension and allowing excessive slippage to occur. This was my fault as I know about the belt slip with this base and neglected to address it quickly enough. I have ordered new main drive belts and motor belts (in different rib numbers), once these arrive I will properly adjust tension. I may redo the force tests at that point to see what the results are.

The stock base is just that, stock. It is worth mentioning that the stock motors do have some run time on them so they may have weakened a bit. I noticed my force measurements are a good bit lower than average and worn motors are likely to blame. I have a brand new motor block I will install at some point so I can do some more testing.

Hopefully anyone who is interested in watching doesn't find the videos too painful :boggled:. At least with the time jumps in the description no one will have to sit through the whole thing!

Stock CSW V1 video:


Buhler Modded CSW video:
 
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john_ach
Any help is much appreciated seth and eKretz! I have a background in electronics, but that was more books than hands, so can provide some input.

I had a reply from Fanatec today saying that they could send out a replacement PCB. I'm surprised that they still have spares to be honest! That might be my fallback option if we can't identify something else as the problem.

I think that the vertical IC (the MOSFET) will be switched quickly to give a variable voltage output to the motor, controlling its torque. This control signal likely originates from the IC under the silver heatsink. If you're able to test the signals across the motor (tweezer point on photo) and the vertical IC (gate-source and drain-source) that would help try to narrow in on the cause.

I'm in the UK, so timing might not sync, but thankful of help as you're available!
Click to expand...

Hey there, I am so sorry for the delay. I will still be testing my base for you, I just forgot to be quite honest. I have Easter with family tomorrow but I should be able to check those points on Monday. I have the cover off of one of my Porsche bases already so it should be quite easy to probe a couple points.
 
I finally pulled my finger out today and re drilled my motor mount to fit the new buhlers in (yes the ones from the group buy) i had been using my csr-elite with the single buhler motor for ages, but with the recent move to Xbox One i had set that wheel aside and was using my converted CSW v1 with stock motors (forza 6 FFB is horrible so i didnt see the need to add more torque to the mix). just waiting on a thicker belt to arive now (4 ribs rather than the 2 rib csr elite belt, buhlers need more belt traction lol)

The new buhlers are WAY better than the previous ones i had from ebey, there was definitely something wrong with them from the get go, they were no were near as quick as these ones. and in comparison to the single motor they seem to stack up pretty similarly, the only advantage of the single motor i found was lower drag, but the trade offs for just that are not really worth it, the single motor doesnt fit inside the base without removing the right side fan and power button, and its so long that the PCB has to have an altered mounting position which means the rear cover panel doesn't fit.

Im now interested in look into trying to do a hall sensor mod to do away with the optical encoder, i have a spare sensor from the CSP throttle/clutch that uses the same plug, so im hoping i can use that in some way
 
About time you got it in gear! I had a feeling those others you picked up weren't up to snuff when we last talked about them. Especially when you mentioned that they were slow and hard to catch the tail during slides - I have the exact opposite experience. Glad you picked those up and got them in finally!
 
Yeah I'm glad I finally got it done, the only thing I was a bit worried about was drilling the holes in the motors. I didn't have anything I could use to pressurize the cans while I drilled, so I put the motors upside-down in the vice and very carefully and very slowly drilled upwards, managed to do the trick. I haven't drilled the holes in the other end of the motors yet though, I thought there would be enough air flow with out it but when the new belt arrives I'm going to drill the backend of the motors while I have them out, using the same technique but this time I'll have the air pump running to hopefully blow any debris straight out.

Did you open all the holes in the back end Eric or just 1 or 2?
 
There are enough leak points at the tail end that drilling the back isn't necessary. The air comes out through the bearing as well as the crimp points, there's really very little resistance to air flow, so I don't drill the back end. You'd also be very lucky not to hit something critical back there with the noise suppression capacitor, brushes and springs all being back there hidden so you can't see where they are while drilling.
 
Last night I got what I thought was a screaming deal. A craigslist person appeared with tons of fanatec hardware and "hard times" that was forcing him to sell it all for next to nothing!
  1. Fanatec CSW v1 Wheelbase
  2. Fanatec CSR Elite Wheelbase
  3. Fanatec PORSCHE 911 GT2 Wheelbase with pedals
  4. Fanatec Clubsport v2 pedals
  5. Fanatec Clubsport pedals
  6. Fanatec BMW m3 gt2 wheel w/ 4 shifters
  7. Fanatec-rennsport wheel stand
  8. all cables, adapters, brackets, boxes and foam inserts.
  9. some white piece of **** xbox360 wheel
UNFORTUNATELY I only wanted all of that for the clubsport stuff, and the clubsport wheelbase v1 is broken.

I've been lurking this thread for a few days while he and I hashed out the details of the deal. I've been reading about the problems and solutions for the csw and it seems like I have a bad motor.
Symptoms: Slow calibration, grinding feeling in rotation, something is majorly wrong with force feedback, I can feel it is missing most of the forces.

So where should I go from here? I've asked him for a copy of the receipt, but I'm certain it's out of warranty. I've got experience with electronics, how do I go about getting better motors? What modifications need to be done? Should I just send it to fanatec for out of warranty repair? What is the fastest way to get my turning laps again? For now, i'll go back to my thrustmaster with it's notchy belt and noisy fan.
 
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Bit late to the party here, I wrote this post out weeks ago but forgot to post ot I guess lol.

Hey Blue, hows it going? I'm glad your still modding your bases! You'll have to let me know what you think of the new buhlers once you get some time with them. I'm running the first buhler motors and I love them more each day. I never used to run my gear as much as I do now that I have a strong wheel. It just makes me want to get out on the virtual track and drive.

I am definitely interested in the hall sensor mod for the steering axis, if it works that would be awesome. It would be great to get rid of the sensitive optical wheel that is so easy to mark up.

Hope all is well and good luck with your mods :)
 
seth francis
I am definitely interested in the hall sensor mod for the steering axis, if it works that would be awesome. It would be great to get rid of the sensitive optical wheel that is so easy to mark up.

Hope all is well and good luck with your mods :)
Click to expand...

I have to do a bit more research and testing still but I will post my success or failures in here as I go. I've still yet to do some testing with the sensor I have but at the moment I'm not very optimistic I can do it, so my backup plan is to get some encoder wheels made up of aluminium with slotted gaps which should at least be more reliable than the stock ones.

I am saving my final judgment of the newer motors for when I get the new belt as I'm getting a heap of slip on the less loaded pulley (its a very old belt so it doesn't help either), but it's pretty much going to be a repeat of what everyone else has said haha. The one thing I'm really liking at the moment is the fact it fits inside the case.
 
@MichaelBolton
If your getting the whole lot, just swap the motor block out of the CSRE to the CSW. That would be the quickest way to get you behind the wheel. As for better motors, there's really nothing that beats the buhlers. But they are going to be hard to find now, if you have a look in the OP I would keep an eye out for some of those motors
 
Has anyone modded the LED lights on a GT2 when switched to PS3 mode? It would be nice if they were all blue, or the same colours as the PS buttons.

Also, can I swap out the LCD display between a GT2 & a CSR wheel?


:)
 
Blue028
I am saving my final judgment of the newer motors for when I get the new belt as I'm getting a heap of slip on the less loaded pulley (its a very old belt so it doesn't help either), but it's pretty much going to be a repeat of what everyone else has said haha. The one thing I'm really liking at the moment is the fact it fits inside the case.
Click to expand...

We are both in the same situation lol. I have just received my new belts recently. I ordered them from somewhere in Europe through ebay. The only thing I don't like is they say "made in Romania" instead of "made in Germany" I doubt there will be a difference in performance or quality but I like the look or the work Germany on the belt through the window better than Romania. I suppose this is just splitting hairs but I will be contacting different dealers to see if I can locate belts that say "made in Germany". My belts are heavily worn as well, with divots from where the pulleys have slipped excessively. I am curious to see if I notice an improvement in feel or measurements.
 
Have you replaced the sensor in the photo? This is the "zero" sensor. It counts how many times the wheel axis rotates. There is a magnet on the pulley that passes this mark at each rotation. This sensor can cause a calibration failure.
Before replacing the zero sensor I would make sure that the encoder lens and reflector are angled properly. The lens needs to aim between the holes on the encoder wheel and have line of sight to the reflector. This step is important and can be difficult to get right. Sometimes they wont be straight in order for it to work. Improper alignment will cause a failure of calibration.

Sorry the pics are a bit dark and grainy, I used my cell phone.
WP_20160419_003.jpg
WP_20160419_002.jpg
 
Thanks for the tip. I thought it was the code wheel sensor that was the problem.

I'll check the zero sensor out - is there any measurements I can take to determine if the zero sensor is working or not?
 
I'm not sure if there is a way to test it. I will say of you can't get the wheel working by adjusting the infrared lens and reflector, than I think I have a spare zero sensor on hand. I think I bought one to have on hand back when I got my first Porsche wheel. Are you in the USA?

Also, when adjusting the infrared sensors, pay attention to the position of the lens and reflector on the board. I have seen many of these sensors with the black piece lower than the clear piece. I have included some pics to show what I mean. Basically the clear lens is higher than the black reflector, meaning the infrared light is aimed at the top edge of the reflector. In order to correct this you need to tilt both the lens and reflector forward a bit so there is a clear and centered line of sight between the lens and reflector. Also pay attention that the line of sight passes through the holes on the encoder wheel of course.

In this pic you can see both the lens and reflector are upright. The lens is higher than the reflector, meaning there is not a centered line of sight:
WP_20160419_007.jpg


In these pictures the lens and reflector are angled slightly forwards. It may not show in the photo but they now have a centered line of sight. This is the position I have to use in order to get proper calibration in many cases:
WP_20160419_011.jpg

WP_20160419_010.jpg
 
This is the old code wheel sensor from my GT2
DSC_0188.JPG

and this is the new one from Fanatec
DSC_0189.JPG

It looks different but it fits in the same place. I have no way of checking if the new one works since the wheel displays the same problems.

Is this the zero sensor?
DSC_0190.JPG


Do you think it is a problem with the 'zero' sensor? If it is, does anyone have a spare lying around?
 
That new one they sent you looks like its straight out of a CSRE/CSW, shouldn't matter though should do the same job. Yes the zero senor is tucked away in the middle of your pic, try unplugging it and give it a good clean and see if it helps at all. I had the same thing happen on my CSRE and cleaning it seemed to fix the problem for me, maybe i was lucky though
 
Yes, that is the new style. It is used in the non elite csr as well. That sensor is now non adjustable.

As mentioned in my last message, I do have a spare zero sensor :)

I would also suggest seeing if you cam recalibrate the center position. If the wheel thinks center is more than one turn off from actual center, calibration won't be successful. The wheels memory will see what it thinks is center, and expects to rotate approx 1.25 times past that mark. If center is a turn off, and the wheel only goes approx .25 turns past center in one direction, calibration may not succeed. I think I remember having this issue with one of my Porsche wheels. You will need to get the wheel in PC mode though, so if you can't enter PC mode than this may not work. After the base attempts cali does --- spear in the screen? If so you may be able to enter PC mode and manually set the center point. I think the buttons to set center are the bottom two buttons in the left spoke four button segment.

If setting center and cleaning the zero do not worn, than perhaps the zero sensor is bad. There is a chance that the main board has failed in some way but not as likely as the sensor. If you end up needing the zero sensor let me know and well work something out. Are you in the USA?
 

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