Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

[eKretz]

Yeah I just said the same in PM. Doesn't sound like a motor issue so much as a belt issue to me. Sounds like the belts talking a set where they're wrapped around the small motor pulleys. No idea how it could only be happening in-game. Perhaps it's only when the belts are cold and after they are flexed and warmed up a bit that's when the out-of-game test was done, so it just seems like it's only in-game?

 

[Ryko79]

I will wait for the mod kit from Eric and see if the issue will occur again... Maby the new assambly of the base after changing the motors will solve it even if the motors are not the cause of the problem. Maby I will install the belt better than the serviceman in Fanatec

And I also wanted to ask Fanatec fans from Europe, who have this kinf of mod, what power supply and Air pump they use or recommend...

 

[Soren Jacquet]

Hello. Is there maybe anyone that can tell me whats wrong with my fanatec base .
Under a race it suddently disconectet , I then shut it down and even the ps4 then startede it all up again , then the began to shut it self down after I have push the start button all was going red on the button . then I tryede to start it again then the wheel turn slow to right then to the left , could then use the X button to start the display in the wheel sayes 53 ....
Hope you can tell me what to do

 

[Blue028]

Hello. Is there maybe anyone that can tell me whats wrong with my fanatec base .
Under a race it suddently disconectet , I then shut it down and even the ps4 then startede it all up again , then the began to shut it self down after I have push the start button all was going red on the button . then I tryede to start it again then the wheel turn slow to right then to the left , could then use the X button to start the display in the wheel sayes 53 ....
Hope you can tell me what to do

Is your wheelbase a V1 or V2? Sounds like it could be a faulty wire from the Q/R to the wheelbase PCB, I've had that issue with the wheel disconnecting from the Xbox one.

Edit: if the wheel is fully shutting itself down then it could be a motor falling, if the motor draws too much Amps (bad motors pull more than good ones) it stalls the voltage from the power supply which causes the wheel to shut down

 

[eKretz]

When you say disconnected do you mean the wheel shut off? Not sure what that means without clarification. And what base exactly? (PS4 comment makes me think CSW; V1 or V2?) Could be many things - bad QR pin, bad motors, cut/short-circuited wire(s) in the wheel to PCB cable, etc.

 

[Soren Jacquet]

Is your wheelbase a V1 or V2? Sounds like it could be a faulty wire from the Q/R to the wheelbase PCB, I've had that issue with the wheel disconnecting from the Xbox one.

Edit: if the wheel is fully shutting itself down then it could be a motor falling, if the motor draws too much Amps (bad motors pull more than good ones) it stalls the voltage from the power supply which causes the wheel to shut down

It´s a V1 ..

When you say disconnected do you mean the wheel shut off? Not sure what that means without clarification. And what base exactly? (PS4 comment makes me think CSW; V1 or V2?) Could be many things - bad QR pin, bad motors, cut/short-circuited wire(s) in the wheel to PCB cable, etc.

Yes shut off ......

I have fix it ... it´s shows that the drivers was 053 so I updatet it so now drivers and firmwear are 141 and it works again .. ...

 

[eKretz]

That might just be a coincidence, hopefully not for your sake though! Good luck!

 

[moshc]

Hi guys, I have a CSRE I have not used in about three years. I'd like to get back into racing with Assetto Corsa and looking to either upgrade my wheel to the Clubsport V2 or maybe stick with the CSRE and look into motor mods. Have Fanantec fixed reliability issues with Clubsport V2? Does the Clubsport V2 feel better than the CSRE? I wouldn't mind upgrading if there are benefits to the newer model since it would take time and effort to mod my current CSRE. What do you guys think?

 

[Ryko79]

Hi there V1 base modders
I need to buy some strong air pump for the cooling of the Buhler motors. But there is not much to buy in Slovakia. I found this Air pump, with 30 l/min., which si perfect, but it has one rather large outlet. Would it be possible to connect it to the mod kit made by eKretz?
Here it is:
http://www.aquakoi.co.uk/pond-koi-p...airlab-baby-eco-weatherproof-pond-airpump-216
Here are some better pictures of the pump:
https://abc-zoo.sk/11725-vzduchovacie-cerpadlo-airlab-ev20-20w.html

 

[Nick Moxley]

Hi there V1 base modders
I need to buy some strong air pump for the cooling of the Buhler motors. But there is not much to buy in Slovakia. I found this Air pump, with 30 l/min., which si perfect, but it has one rather large outlet. Would it be possible to connect it to the mod kit made by eKretz?
Here it is:
http://www.aquakoi.co.uk/pond-koi-p...airlab-baby-eco-weatherproof-pond-airpump-216
Here are some better pictures of the pump:
https://abc-zoo.sk/11725-vzduchovacie-cerpadlo-airlab-ev20-20w.html

Pretty sure that will come with the Distribution block of sorts....the Black thing with 1 big hole and a bunch of smaller holes. So you should easily be able to break it down to a Smaller outlet.

 

[Ryko79]

So I have finally installed the Mod Kit, connected the Airlab Air Pump + Mean Well 320W RSP Power Supply. I must say, that Airlan is rather quiet, it just vibrates stronger The pomp is more quiet, that the flow of the air thourg the wheel base...

First minutes of testing were amazing. My Clubsport V1 base is now much much stronger, the FFB is unbelievable strong and also detailed. A had to lower the FFB strenght in iRacing from 18 to 10 percent. The FFB is still very strong, but there is absolutly no clipping now. That is fantastic. This feels like a very new wheel base to me, not just new motors...

But I have still one issue with my wheel.
Just like before the Mod kit was installed, I still feel something weird on my hands while turning the wheel, if the wheel base is turned off. Some kind of fitful periodical resistance. Should the movement of the wheel by totaly smooth, or is it ok to feel some resistance spots on the wheel? This is belt driven wheel, so I believe it should be very smooth, with no feel like on gear driven wheel (G27 for example). It feels like something is in the way of turning parts... I did not adjust the tension of the big belt, that connects the left reduction pulley to the main turning wheel mechanism in the middle. Could too high resistance of this belt cause problems? Another possible source could be bearings. Is it possible, that the bearings could be worn out, which should be source of the strange spot resistance?

 

[eKretz]

Oh yeah, another happy modder, lol. Everytime I hear these same happy comments, to me it's like some certain naysayer eating a little more of my shorts, haha!

It could be a number of things, like some of us mentioned earlier - I didn't think it was the motors causing the issue you described. Is it only at one point in the wheel's rotation that you feel the issue? Or is it a periodic thing that you feel several times as the wheel turns? Could be (a) bearing(s), could be the belt or belts, could even possibly (but not likely) be the rotation limiter nut. You may need to remove the belts to tell for sure. Try racing a long session and see if the problem is still there while the wheel and belts are warmed up.

 

[Nick Moxley]

Most likely he's feeling the "notch" in the belt from where ever you left it last. Its pretty apparent on mine and unless you run next to No tension on the pulley, it will just slip....are Softer belts available or would you just soften it yourself with some conditioner Eric ?

 

[eKretz]

Yeah I mentioned that earlier, but didn't ever hear back about it - that's why I recommended checking after a long use period to check if the "resistance"is still there. After long use and belts warming up that will usually disappear. I personally store my wheel turned all the way to one stop so this isn't super noticeable to me. Both belts actually take a set during storage but I think it's more noticeable from the steering shaft belt.

Softer belts (or even softening existing belts) would be bad IMO, as there would be a lot more debris accumulation inside the wheel (you know, the one with optical sensors!) Wear would also require considerably more frequent belt replacement, which even I don't look forward to.

 

[Ryko79]

Thanks for comments. The resistance is less noticable than before, but it is still there... Will test it for longer and see...

One question regarding original Fanatec motor belt. My V1 base has the older 2-rib best. Would it be better to get the newer 3-rib belt or some other belt bought elsewhere? If the new belt could help with pre problem and maby help with the overall performance of the wheel base, is it possible to buy the 3-rib belt from Fanatec as a replacement part?

 

[eKretz]

The belts were available from eBay the last time I checked - just search for "Optibelt RG" and find your size. Either motor belt will work (2 or 3 rib) and there isn't much slippage at the motor belt if it's dialed in to just right tension in either case. I run the 2-rib motor belt in my wheel with no issues - but I'm running a 6-rib steering shaft belt on a lightened steering shaft pulley with 2 extra grooves machined in it.

 

[MartyU]

Just checking in. The motor mod is working great.

I also feel the slight notchiness when the wheel has been off for some time but it goes away quickly. I think its the motor belt taking a set around the short radius of the motor pulleys. Kinda like some tires having a thumping feel after sitting over night.

The bigger issue is slippage of the steering shaft belt at high force levels because of the torque multiplication at the idler pulley. Eric's wider belt is a good fix. Would make a cool upgrade kit (hint, hint).

 

[LeMansAid]

I also feel the slight notchiness when the wheel has been off for some time but it goes away quickly. I think its the motor belt taking a set around the short radius of the motor pulleys. Kinda like some tires having a thumping feel after sitting over night.

Completely normal, and I've never come across anyone saying it has done any permanent damage to the belt. I just leave my wheel at full lock (or thereabouts) so that a) I'm good to go straight away, and b) There's zero risk of a permanent indentation in a worse position.

 

[eKretz]

Just checking in. The motor mod is working great.

I also feel the slight notchiness when the wheel has been off for some time but it goes away quickly. I think its the motor belt taking a set around the short radius of the motor pulleys. Kinda like some tires having a thumping feel after sitting over night.

The bigger issue is slippage of the steering shaft belt at high force levels because of the torque multiplication at the idler pulley. Eric's wider belt is a good fix. Would make a cool upgrade kit (hint, hint).

That would probably be a good item to have available. I'll look into it. I never bothered before because for guys to do that at home would require quite a bit of disassembly/reassembly and I figured there wouldn't be too many people wanting to get that deep into the wheel.

 

[driftmachine]

Burnt transistors

Sorry for bumping an old thread, and maybe the answer is hidden in here somewhere. I am familiar with modding the GT3 RS, and now I have my hands on an old CSW V1. I just snapped the center ring so i have to open it up. I know the CSW, and the CSR Elite have a lot in common. Just not sure how much.

A few things I would like to know. You said your child turned your variable psu up and burnt a few transistors. I did not see any images for those for where they are located. I am sure I will find them on my own, but any direct pointers are always helpful. I have to open it up to swap the plastic ring. I am gonna assume I will eventually burn those transistors out if I overcurrent my setup. I was lucky with my GT3 wheel. Simply putting a 24v 5a PSU and replacing the fans for larger ones fixed most of my issues with that wheel. I did a few other thing to that as well.

I want to know if there are any other standard sizes beside the 24v 5a 7.5 and 10a units that are available. I have searched for hours for random numbers like 32v 36v. Do you have a locked voltage amperage psu in mind to recommend?

Last question have you tried any brushless conversions on any of the CSW v1 or elite wheels? I know at some point I am gonna need to replace the motors.
Thanks for your time.

 

[Nick Moxley]

Stock motor's wont handle any over voltage or Amperage very well, I would suspect they would be toast in no time with any more power than stock. Also You wont be going as high as Eric's kid on the amperage (No one should be lol), so dont worry about the resistors. (pics are in this thread BTW)

 

[eKretz]

The problem was the voltage, not the amperage - although that would have killed them too. My boy turned the PSU dial to 52VDC, higher than the electronic components on the board are rated for. (Rated for 40V - but don't go over 36 max, really even that may damage them over time). The transistors that died were tiny BJTs - bipolar junction transistors. They are about the size a grain of rice.

I'd follow Nick's advice on the stock motors though. If you up the power you'll regret it pretty fast.

 

[driftmachine]

The problem was the voltage, not the amperage - although that would have killed them too. My boy turned the PSU dial to 52VDC, higher than the electronic components on the board are rated for. (Rated for 40V - but don't go over 36 max, really even that may damage them over time). The transistors that died were tiny BJTs - bipolar junction transistors. They are about the size a grain of rice.

I'd follow Nick's advice on the stock motors though. If you up the power you'll regret it pretty fast.

I am not so worried about the motors, they are an easy fix. Also, it will just give me a reason to upgrade. I have a huge box of motors laying around. I was more worried about the boards. I have a good bit of electronics experience, but not everything is so obvious when it comes to the board.

From my experience with my old GT3 RS V2.2 overcurrent didn't hurt a thing. I had that wheel since 2010 or so. I got my csw second hand on ebay a few months ago. The center ring is slightly damaged, so I got to rebuild it. Also the wheel shuts off if I spin it too fast. And that's not even coming close to lock. My old GT3 wheel did the same until I got a new slightly more powerful psu. I swapped from a 24v 2.5a to 24v 5a. Ironically the one that came with my csw is only 24v 5a.

I recalled reading this post several years ago and remembered you going up to 36v, and thought that might give me the torque difference I was looking for. As I learned overcurrent don't change much at all. Since I obviously need a new psu since its clipping I might as bump the volts a bit too. With these small electric motors they seem to respond to voltage more so than current. Technically both, but you get the idea.

I was hoping you knew a stock size to search for that's bigger than 24v. 48v is the next size I was able to find, but that seems too much. Usually the key to find something online is to know specifically what it is.

Thanks.

 

[eKretz]

The reason the motors didn't "respond" to more current/amperage is that they are already pulling very near their maximum stall current straight from the factory, so you didn't increase anything at all by adding a power supply with higher amperage.

On the other hand, increasing voltage to the motor also increases stall current proportionally. More voltage = higher RPM and the resultant higher amperage = higher torque. You may not want to hear it, but increasing the voltage on the stock motors will very quickly kill them. This could potentially damage your circuit board as well, depending on the failure mode of the motors. I would strongly advise against it.

I upped voltage to 36V on the Bühler motors with forced air cooling - there's very little possibility of the good quality magnet wire insulation melting and causing a short. The stock motors often melt the magnet wire insulation and short even with the stock power supply in my own experience.

 

[driftmachine]

Like alway, I guess I am on my own. I am fully aware of what current vs voltages do. That's why I said what I said.

Atm I need a new PSU, I see no point in getting the same one when I feel I need a little more torque. I burn out my motors, then oh well. Then I have a reason to try to figure out a brushless set up. I got a huge box of extra motors from my many other projects. If it burns out a board, then I might be screwed. Usually I am lucky enough almost always fix what ever I destroy, so I am willing to take that chance. I just ordered a 36v psu. A bit higher than I wanted, but I am resourceful. I can tune it down a bit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/WH-36V-4A-A...pply-S-145-36-145W-High-Quality-/121520633621

I recover data for living, if I can rebuild a hard drive I am sure this is cake.

 

[Nick Moxley]

4A psu ? less than the stock unit ? huh ?

 

[eKretz]

I'm not sure you understand this as well as you think you do, but I wish you luck. Rebuilding something and completely understanding how it works are two completely different things. The power supply selection you posted shows that you don't understand the relationship between voltage and amperage very well.

There is no point for you to know exactly where my board failed since yours will never have 52VDC applied to it. Yours will almost certainly fail elsewhere if it fails, due to a high current short circuit caused by the motor armature wires' insulation melting/burning through and shorting together. If you really want to know exactly what failed on my wheel, as Nick mentioned it is documented in this thread.

 

[driftmachine]

4A psu ? less than the stock unit ? huh ?

Do the math. 36x4 vs 24x5. 144 vs 120. Its about the same output. For now I will just experiment a bit. I know this psu style pretty well so adjustments are easy.

Depending on how it goes depends on my next move. So much for answering my question...... What PSU did you end up settling for.

Fyi I have made my own wheels shifters and pedals from scratch. I am just not going into the details. Trying to save time and asking a question was a waste of time

 

[eKretz]

Hey man, don't get upset with people just because they tell you something isn't a good idea. I'm not sure what you were expecting here, but as far as things like power supplies, I'm sorry but I don't have the time to Google everything for everyone - especially as I still don't have internet at home. If you had taken the time to read the thread, you'd already know that I use a variable lab power supply, something you aren't likely to buy unless you want to spend a couple thousand dollars.

As I mentioned previously, your choice of power supply shows that you don't understand the relationship between voltage and amperage and how they relate to PMDC motors. Total power (wattage) isn't what you need to be looking at. Upping the voltage without increasing (in fact decreasing) the amperage is going to give you huge amounts clipping. I hope you can return it. Upping the amperage without upping the voltage with the CSW V1 will give you no net gain. You need to up the amperage by the same percentage that you up the voltage.

 

[driftmachine]

I seen you used a variable pSU in the main post. I figured by now you would have found a more permanent solution. I figured you would need that variable unit for something other than a wheel. That's why I asked the question I did.

As far as the current I wanted a 5a or 6a unit, but could not find one. We all know these ratings are RMS, so tuning it up or down via part swap should not be an issue. I figured it's better to go under and see what happens than go too big and destroy it.

When I was designing my hand brake, I went through several load cell types before finding the perfect feel. It's the same approach here. I asked some questions and I was told I would destroy my pedal base, and yet 2 years later Fanatec released a HB that worked exactly like mine. So forgive me for sounding bitter or hard headed, but all my life I have been told I can't do something and most of the time I find out I can do what I am told I can't do. I may not have a college education, but I have been experimenting with electronics since I was a child with mostly success in the end of the project.