Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*
- Thread starter eKretz
- 3,607 comments
- 604,912 views
Ok guys, just got home from the machine shop. Finally have a full prototype cooling system done. Should commence testing in the next day or two. Made some small changes as can be seen in the photos here:
Changed the position of the air passage to try to use the spare mounting holes in the Bühler motors as air entry point into the motor so I can try to avoid drilling the motors (otherwise I have to disassemble the motors to ensure no chips from drilling get inside). You can also see my new homemade pulleys. (And my boo-boo on the one on the right. I pulled it out of the lathe chuck while machining it because I was trying to use the minimum chucking force necessary). Oooops! Luckily all the functional surfaces cleaned up fine. The little scratches in the end of the pulley are from when I lapped the bores so the pulleys are just a snug slip fit to the motor shafts - the lap came out and tickled the aluminum with lapping compound and made the little scratches.
Looking very good! Now if the scratches were in an aircraft wing fitting or something like that it would be something to be concerned about. But in this application it is only a cosmetic thing.
I PM'ed you a few weeks ago about the replacement motors you use and have pulled the trigger on two refurbished Buhler motors and a power supply for them. They are on the way. It may be awhile before I get to installing them as my original CSW motors are still in good shape (only because I don't put as many hours on them as some on this forum do). When they do crap out I will be able to fix it and hopefully improve upon the original motors, if the machining gods look favorably upon the process.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
I don't know what to tell you other than run it as low as possible when using the stock motors. The problem seems to be very hit-or-miss so between any two motors they are likely to be able to take different settings.
As for what motors to get on failure, if you're warrantied still then get them to install new ones for you. If not, the only other option right now that I know will work is the Bühler motors, but they do require some other stuff too, as explained earlier.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Hi Cub, since those pulleys are for my own use, I wasn't worried about cosmetics. I would never send anything out for a customer looking like that though... Aerospace part or otherwise. I ended up making my own copper expanding lap but I made it a blind hole lap so I could use it in future on possible blind holes... That made it easy for a slip to occur.
Good luck with your mod work, let us know how it goes when you get to it. I would recommend getting some longer motor mounting bolts as well... 3mm x .5mm pitch x 10mm long. If you need any more info let me know... happy to help.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
OK gentlemen, start your engines! All assembled and wrapped up. Here's a few progress photos:
As you can see, and as I said earlier, tight fit... just clears.
Here you can see everything lines up properly just like stock (BTW, don't mind the wires sticking out the back, those are a my wheel only thing - I just plug the fans in to 24V so they are always on, I haven't bothered to hard wire them to the board yet):
Here's a look at the QR fittings for hooking up the air pump lines:
And here's a really crappy shot showing the interior tubing going from the QR fittings to the motor fittings. Forgot to take one while the covers were off... Wasn't going to take 'em off again just to get the shot:
As you can see, and as I said earlier, tight fit... just clears.
Here you can see everything lines up properly just like stock (BTW, don't mind the wires sticking out the back, those are a my wheel only thing - I just plug the fans in to 24V so they are always on, I haven't bothered to hard wire them to the board yet):
Here's a look at the QR fittings for hooking up the air pump lines:
And here's a really crappy shot showing the interior tubing going from the QR fittings to the motor fittings. Forgot to take one while the covers were off... Wasn't going to take 'em off again just to get the shot:
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- 3,239
- New York
- thepatriots
looks good.
Do you think you could install the QR fittings for hooking up the air pump lines without drilling into the back cover?
My thoughts:
Maybe use the new gap in the back
Make the gap bigger with bigger spacers/longer bolts
Don't attached the back
Also, what kind of air pump is required to cool the motors?
Do you think you could install the QR fittings for hooking up the air pump lines without drilling into the back cover?
My thoughts:
Maybe use the new gap in the back
Make the gap bigger with bigger spacers/longer bolts
Don't attached the back
Also, what kind of air pump is required to cool the motors?
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Hmm, I'll have to think about that one. Installing in the gap is a no-go because there's a nut holding the QR in place. It wouldn't be secure in the gap in any case.
This is the pump I'm using at the moment but I have another one coming to try out that should be quieter because this one is a bit loud for my taste:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002JLJC0W/?tag=gtplanet-20
This is the pump I'm using at the moment but I have another one coming to try out that should be quieter because this one is a bit loud for my taste:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002JLJC0W/?tag=gtplanet-20
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- 27
- San Diego, USA
We have been doing some really cool and fun stuff. Can't wait to show you guys !
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Haha, I think you're a little more excited than everybody else! Anyways, the cooling is definitely helping. The motors draw a lot of current when used at higher settings in GT though... I don't really want them running over 170°-180°F, (77°-82°C) (even though the motors should be OK to 105°C) and that means FFB setting in GT has to stay at 6 or below with FOR, SPR and FF at 100 so far. With no pump I think FFB would need to stay at or under 4 in GT. I'm going to test some other sims tomorrow. Maybe I need to try some larger air holes in the motors after all. They cool down way faster after the race is over with the pump though, and the back of the wheel housing where the air is exiting the motors is definitely getting warm, so I know it's definitely removing quite a lot of heat from the motors.
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- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Nah, there's no fan that can provide the necessary pressure and airflow through a small tube. Evacuating the heat from inside the motor is pretty much as good as it gets for cooling. Blowing a fan on the outside of the motor is very much less efficient. Heat doesn't even start to be removed until the heat has radiated through all the wiring and iron on the armature, through the bearings and into the can. Cooling the can is one of the least efficient methods of cooling a motor, from what I've read. Also, the new pump I tested today is quiet enough that I couldn't even hear it while racing with the stereo volume at a normal level.
- 84
- Central Wisconsin
- 572
- 18603
- Intimidat3r421
I added an extra fan to blow in air on the outside, left side of the base with clips some time ago. I think production bases now have this internal??? This significantly helps reduce the FFB fade that occurs when the temps rise. This may attribute to my motor pack never failing......... Obviously had the electrical burn off smell for a couple days. Other than that, NO issues. However, the FFB overall is only ok, and can't wait to make this modification! This will increase the longevity of the unit, imho.
Keep it up Eric.
The iRacing thread has cooled off. However, iracing has had some issues over the last couple of days(new build implementation), and traffic is way down on the forums. There are easily +-125 interested in this off the bat. My .02.
Keep it up Eric.
The iRacing thread has cooled off. However, iracing has had some issues over the last couple of days(new build implementation), and traffic is way down on the forums. There are easily +-125 interested in this off the bat. My .02.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
-8•F... Not so cold today.
Maybe a way to improve cooling is optimizing the hot air extraction. If the motor hot air flow accumulates heat in the back of the wheel it could be an option to create holes in the plastic cover.
Yes, I thought of that also... I also need to reverse my fans again. I forgot to do that to help remove the heat directly... Right now it's pulling the heat across the whole innards of the wheel before exiting. Holes in the back of the housing might not do a whole lot though, since the board sits right behind the motors where the heat exits. I may need to make a little deflector to guide it towards the fan. One thing's sure - you'll feel the heat exit now if you put your hand near the fan... Not like the stock setup.
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- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
I added an extra fan to blow in air on the outside, left side of the base with clips some time ago. I think production bases now have this internal??? This significantly helps reduce the FFB fade that occurs when the temps rise. This may attribute to my motor pack never failing......... Obviously had the electrical burn off smell for a couple days. Other than that, NO issues. However, the FFB overall is only ok, and can't wait to make this modification! This will increase the longevity of the unit, imho.
Keep it up Eric.
The extra fan may do a little, but I had more than one failure on my CSW even though it came with 2 fans. The "burn-off" smell is pretty normal when electric motors get very hot. The aromatics cook off eventually and it goes away. Even the Bühler motors can give a whiff now and again when they get very hot when testing without the air pump. The difference is - they don't fail like the stock motors do.
- 84
- Central Wisconsin
Eric - this is looking quite good, I'm ready to place an order when you are 
In the meantime, my CSW can help heat our cold, cold house - Crank up the FFB!
In the meantime, my CSW can help heat our cold, cold house - Crank up the FFB!
Just so we are clear, my comment about the scratches were not to do with your machining skills or what you would make for sale. I'm sure your parts made for sale would be first class, these are after all prototypes shown in the pictures and for your own use.
Thanks for the specs on the longer screws. I will change the originals out when I install the Buhler's.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Yup, I figured. Just wanted to clarify that for anyone else reading.
On a related note, I got a quote for making the parts from a CNC shop today. Not nearly as low as I expected them to be. I could make them on a manual machine for about the same or maybe even less... But my back can't take standing at the machines for very long anymore. I'm going to have to send out to a few other places. At the prices the quote came in at a complete drop-in motor block with mount and all related cooling parts and new pulleys along with 2 motors would have to sell for about $275. Then you'd still need a pump and power supply. Maybe I need to get my own CNCs eh?
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Power supply and air pump are probably about $60-$80 for both. Might be cheaper if you do some looking. I am still hesitant to talk much about pricing because I'm still not super happy with the setup yet. However, today I discovered I made a mistake in my trigonometry while machining the parts (was at the shop 'til 2 AM - I was tired and made a boo-boo) and that the air passages were partially blocked, so I'm not getting full airflow. Gotta make some more parts again. I still want to experiment with a different water cooling setup as well. I also would like to try an air-to-air cooler using a peltier so I can pump cooled air into the motors. It's taking me a while to go through all the testing because I can't afford to do too much experimentation being unable to work full time anymore (copper for the water cooling parts is very expensive right now, and don't have any spare cash for peltiers, radiator, etc.). On that note, if anyone has any spare peltiers they aren't using or stuff like that that could be useful like old PC water-cooling kit I could really use them. Also - I would recommend switching to the 3-rib belt if you go for this mod.
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