Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

[eKretz]

Ekretz, let me know when you're ready for my CSW.

Will do. I need to get back into the shop to finish a few more little things first. I fumble fingered one of the air passages in my basement workshop the other night while I was polishing out the belt sander marks... it caught the buffing wheel and shot out of my hands and I couldn't find it, so I need to make another up real quick. I want to do the cooling system testing first before I start sending any of these out to make sure they perform as I expect them to.

 

[eKretz]

Best explanation I've herard of how clipping works - thank you! That is what I was hoping for, improved performance with less stress on the motors. For those who don't know, some titles use a clipping monitor as a tool to set force strength - iRacing, Pcars, and AC do - not sure about rF2.

Well I tried to explain a complex subject simply, hopefully that makes it easier for many to understand. It seems like a lot of people aren't very aware of clipping and how detrimental it can be.

 

[vittorio]

Best explanation I've herard of how clipping works - thank you! That is what I was hoping for, improved performance with less stress on the motors. For those who don't know, some titles use a clipping monitor as a tool to set force strength - iRacing, Pcars, and AC do - not sure about rF2.

In rfactor2 there is the rF2 Pedal & FFB Overlay Plugin. I always use it to adjust FFB strength so there is no clipping.
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/7546-rF2-Pedal-Overlay-Plugin

 

[Dean Ogurek]

In rfactor2 there is the rF2 Pedal & FFB Overlay Plugin. I always use it to adjust FFB strength so there is no clipping.
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/7546-rF2-Pedal-Overlay-Plugin

Great - thank you vittorio!

 

[capitao88]

Well I tried to explain a complex subject simply, hopefully that makes it easier for many to understand. It seems like a lot of people aren't very aware of clipping and how detrimental it can be.

Hello
Can you tell me if it is possible to send them to Portugal after the kit?
I myself can ride.
Ideal also be a video made for you to explain how to do the installation on csw

 

[eKretz]

Hello
Can you tell me if it is possible to send them to Portugal after the kit?
I myself can ride.
Ideal also be a video made for you to explain how to do the installation on csw

I don't see any reason why not as long as you pay the shipping cost.

I think there are probably already videos out that show how to change the CSW motor block, aren't there? This is really no more complex than that unless you want to install the kit on stock motors; then the stock heat sink just needs to be modded or removed. I suppose I could do that if necessary though.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Hello
Can you tell me if it is possible to send them to Portugal after the kit?
I myself can ride.
Ideal also be a video made for you to explain how to do the installation on csw

Removing the motors will now void your warranty with Fanatec. When my motors first went out on my CSR-E wheel they emailed me a PDF on how to replace the motor mount and shipped a motor mount to me.

Now, in my most recent support ticket with them, they no longer offer to ship a motor replacement and said if the wheel had been tampered with, it would void the warranty. Just a heads up in case your wheel is in warranty.

Jerome

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Removing the motors will now void your warranty with Fanatec. When my motors first went out on my CSR-E wheel they emailed me a PDF on how to replace the motor mount and shipped a motor mount to me.

Now, in my most recent support ticket with them, they no longer offer to ship a motor replacement and said if the wheel had been tampered with, it would void the warranty. Just a heads up in case your wheel is in warranty.

Jerome

That policy is pretty standard but, in most cases where these motors are replaced, the warranty has already run out anyway. If the warranty is still in effect, why not let Fanatec fix it.

 

[Jump_Ace]

That policy is pretty standard but, in most cases where these motors are replaced, the warranty has already run out anyway. If the warranty is still in effect, why not let Fanatec fix it.

Fanatec emailed me an RMA, but since the replacement motor didn't last more than 9 months (only 1 month of actual use when GT6 rolled) I'd rather not waste my time with them (again). But that's just me.


Jerome

 

[fatkrakr]

My CSW has another burnt out motor. Im not sure what Im going to do yet. I know what I should do with the piece of 🤬 though.

 

[eKretz]

Fanatec emailed me an RMA, but since the replacement motor didn't last more than 9 months (only 1 month of actual use when GT6 rolled) I'd rather not waste my time with them (again). But that's just me.


Jerome

That's funny! I ran out of patience after only 4 months. And 3 motor blocks.

 

[eKretz]

Sorry to hear that fatkrakr. I still wonder how the heck some people have no failures and some people have them left and right. Was it Carson who had 12? That's gotta be a record I hope.

 

[fatkrakr]

I think its almost like an hours of use thing. Im not sure, just angry.

 

[mrbasher]

Sorry to hear that fatkrakr. I still wonder how the heck some people have no failures and some people have them left and right. Was it Carson who had 12? That's gotta be a record I hope.

I've always wondered this. The cynic in me says that some number of those who've "never had issues", really have. (sorry, don't hate me for that) However, the realist says that it's likely many other variables combined: length of play each use, FFB level, type of FFB, settings on the wheel, even how a person drives. Some people fight the FFB more than others for instance. Drifters use it to their advantage when they let the rim spin.

I think the whole "bad batch of motors" statement says a lot, while saying nothing about motors.

 

[eKretz]

My thoughts would probably lean toward the latter...I think it could come down to some of those factors and possibly even more. The stock motors are made in China, but so are some Bühler motors. It is clear to me merely by examining the disassembled motors that the stock motors are designed and made in a way that pinched every possible penny. The Bühler motors on the other hand are well made and clearly not skimping on materials or production quality. Cheap Chinese products are notorious for quality problems and even variations in items that are from a production line and should be identical. IMO this is probably a large part of the issue. Also my opinion as a veteran machinist - the stock motors are overtaxed and made from **** materials with shoddy manufacturing practices. I would bet that there are bad motors in every batch - and right next to them may be good (relatively; let's call them good enough) ones.

 

[Jump_Ace]

For me it was the amount of time I spent golding the drft challenges that did my wheel motors in. It was hot in my home office/game room and I spent around 12 to 15 hour of seat time on those three challenges. I've never attempted drifting on any level before then so I didn't know what in-game settings to use and didn't think about lowering the FFB (level 7 iirc). A few days later I was doing the GT6 WRS qualifier and it was like I was fed a spoonfull of rockroad ice cream when I was expecting silky smooth vanilla.


Jerome

 

[JogoAsobi]

Guys this issue has been around even before the CSRE, and CSW.
These wheels use 2 of the same motor F. Porsche-style motors do/did.
I had four Porsche-style wheels fail in less than a year...
...then I had deja-vu with CSRE & then CSW.

I have had a T500 now for 1 year, used the hell out of it.
Over 12K miles logged in just GT6 since Dec 6, 2013.
Not a hiccup motor-wise.

I am not posting this to say TH is better than F...
...just trying to explain why I went to the other side.
I had everything in the F. line, a true fan boy per-say.

I just couldn't deal with the damn downtime anymore.
In one year, I figured out, I was without working gear for about 7 weeks...
...due to all the back and forth involved.

I'll also be the first to admit that the grass is not all greener on the TH side.
I had one wheel replaced by TH after 9 months, wasn't motor-related, a center screw snapped...
...so they gave me a brand new wheel, instead of just a replacement screw.
Reason they said, was concern motor might have oscillated due to snapped screw.

I really really hope that eKretz can hook you guys up with a solution.
As much money as you paid for the gear, you deserve no less in my book.

 

[eKretz]

That is the reason I like the Bühler motors. I have beat the living hell out of mine for just about a year now and they just keep on trucking. I'm sure you already know this and it has been covered earlier in the thread, but the T500 uses a Bühler motor also.

With the better cooling now I am really looking forward to trying some of the overvolting stuff again. I think running at 32 or 36 volts and dropping the in-game FFB level a bit might be very enjoyable now that the motors will be sufficiently cooled. This setup is apt to work much better than my previous makeshift setup I had been using.

 

[K_Soze]

I would like to see how your wheel performs the FFB benchmark
I remember the low drag mod results were impressive. But I am sure your mod should outperform it

 

[fatkrakr]

I think the whole "bad batch of motors" statement says a lot, while saying nothing about motors.

This is probably the worst part for me. I knew we were being fed a load of crap when it was said, but wanted to believe it and give the benefit of the doubt. I hate feeling stupid, but hate it even worse when someone else makes me feel stupid and right know that's how I feel.

 

[paskowitz]

eKretz, I just want to get this straight. You can install the Buhler motors now, but there is another (better?) motor you may be able to install, but you are waiting on hearing back from the supplier?

 

[eKretz]

eKretz, I just want to get this straight. You can install the Buhler motors now, but there is another (better?) motor you may be able to install, but you are waiting on hearing back from the supplier?

Almost. We don't have a better alternative than the Bühlers yet, still looking for one. The motor guy I'm working with now is still looking anyway. The guy who was going to make us motors from scratch just kept putting it off for some reason, I guess he must not have got the results he thought he would? I ended up just asking him to send my spare motors and other stuff I sent to him back after about 4-5 months of waiting with no contact. It is tough finding a better made motor than the Bühler in this size that doesn't cost a fortune. On top of that, anything much stronger also draws more amperage, which means more heat.

Ideally for me at least, I would stuff some neodymium magnets in the Bühler motors to get even a little more torque (for the guys like me who almost can't get enough) and kick the voltage up a notch to regain any lost RPM. I am happy with the feel and performance of the Bühler motors but I would really like to find an equal motor that people could just bolt in. On the plus side for the Bühler is that they are relatively cheap, so having to do a few mods isn't so bad.

 

[eKretz]

I would like to see how your wheel performs the FFB benchmark
I remember the low drag mod results were impressive. But I am sure your mod should outperform it

Are you talking about the Wheelcheck test from David Tucker at iRacing? I've posted up several of my graphs showing the results of that test. The 'low drag' mod is a lot more than low drag mods - RacerXX is running 4 stock motors at once instead of 2, with all the resultant kit sticking out of the tail end of his wheel. The Bühler motors outperform the 2 stock motors but not 4 of them. However, I don't care to have all the guts hanging out of my wheel either, I prefer the stock look, so my toddler doesn't stick his fingers (and blocks,etc.) into the works.

 

[K_Soze]

Are you talking about the Wheelcheck test from David Tucker at iRacing? I've posted up several of my graphs showing the results of that test. The 'low drag' mod is a lot more than low drag mods - RacerXX is running 4 stock motors at once instead of 2, with all the resultant kit sticking out of the tail end of his wheel. The Bühler motors outperform the 2 stock motors but not 4 of them. However, I don't care to have all the guts hanging out of my wheel either, I prefer the stock look, so my toddler doesn't stick his fingers (and blocks,etc.) into the works.

I should spend more time to re read the thread, and parse all your pictures

 

[eKretz]

I suppose I should add all that to the first post actually. I have been meaning to do a little better summary but just haven't gotten roundtuit.

 

[Carson79]

Sorry to hear that fatkrakr. I still wonder how the heck some people have no failures and some people have them left and right. Was it Carson who had 12? That's gotta be a record I hope.

Yip, I'm sure it's in that ball park. I've had the motor block repaired since so I would have the count at 13 now.
As it's still in warranty here If it fails I'll RMA it. I figure eventually I'll get lucky lmao.
I've been following the thread from the beginning with the hope of buying the upgraded motor block once they're ready and tested. I've got until about October on my warranty so I'm in no big rush atm.
I love the cooling idea, looks great! Keep up the good work

 

[capitao88]

Removing the motors will now void your warranty with Fanatec. When my motors first went out on my CSR-E wheel they emailed me a PDF on how to replace the motor mount and shipped a motor mount to me.

Now, in my most recent support ticket with them, they no longer offer to ship a motor replacement and said if the wheel had been tampered with, it would void the warranty. Just a heads up in case your wheel is in warranty.

Jerome

I've also had engine problems and had to send the wheel.
I still have warranty until August.
But I'm scared and I fear that at the end of the guarantee will have problems, and I will certainly have.
What is unfair is that I bought when csw FANATEC promised to sell spare parts apart, and with this new way of working I did not like anything as a customer, because deep down I feel deceived by something they promised to give the customer and now not being right with customers.

 

[eKretz]

Ok guys, just got home from the machine shop. Finally have a full prototype cooling system done. Should commence testing in the next day or two. Made some small changes as can be seen in the photos here:





Changed the position of the air passage to try to use the spare mounting holes in the Bühler motors as air entry point into the motor so I can try to avoid drilling the motors (otherwise I have to disassemble the motors to ensure no chips from drilling get inside). You can also see my new homemade pulleys. (And my boo-boo on the one on the right. I pulled it out of the lathe chuck while machining it because I was trying to use the minimum chucking force necessary). Oooops! Luckily all the functional surfaces cleaned up fine. The little scratches in the end of the pulley are from when I lapped the bores so the pulleys are just a snug slip fit to the motor shafts - the lap came out and tickled the aluminum with lapping compound and made the little scratches.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I've always wondered this. The cynic in me says that some number of those who've "never had issues", really have. (sorry, don't hate me for that) However, the realist says that it's likely many other variables combined: length of play each use, FFB level, type of FFB, settings on the wheel, even how a person drives. Some people fight the FFB more than others for instance. Drifters use it to their advantage when they let the rim spin.

I think the whole "bad batch of motors" statement says a lot, while saying nothing about motors.

It is my belief that this wheel (Elite/CSW) with the stock motors is fragile, so I think it all depend on how it is used. After 6 month I, like so many others, had a motor failure.
I do not care for strong feedback, all I want is to feel what the car is doing, not fight with the wheel. That is why I believe the first motor batch lasted me that long ( 6 month, I know , really?).
On the second batch, about 9 month now, I have installed a digital thermometer to monitor the heat, and I set up the FFB in game so the temperature ( from the heat sink) does not go over 30 degrees.
I am very happy with the FFB I get at that level, but I totally realize that some prefer, and should be able to get, stronger reaction from the wheel.
Those motor, are the Achilles hills of that otherwise very well made product.
I am looking to order a set of Buhler from eKretz when available, as this will (hopefully) make it a total package.

 

[fortbo]

I haven't been having any major problems with my wheel(I have had it since october) but it feels like the motors aren't feeling as smooth as they were a few months ago. I don't know if it is just me or not. Is anyone else experiencing this?