- 532
- Canada
Youtube has some Video's on DIY Transducers.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+tactile+transducer&sm=3
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+tactile+transducer&sm=3
Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*
- Thread starter eKretz
- 3,607 comments
- 604,944 views
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Here's some photos of what my cooling setup is turning out to look like:
The air will be pumped into the barbed fittings by an aquarium pump that's good for about 30-40 LPM. The barbs will pass the air through the mount and into the air passages that will then bring it over to the air inlet holes coming in to the motors that I put into the front endbells. The air will exit through holes that are in the rear endbell that should immediately carry the heat away from the brushes right out the back. The stock fans will then evacuate that from the case. Excuse the modeling work, it was just a quickie to give people an idea what's going on. I'm going to try it with room temp air first and chill it if necessary. I'm hoping room temp air will be good enough. Space is very tight so everything is a close fit but it does clear. I thought about also adding heatsinks to the cans but I want to see how it works first, of course. Lots of testing to do, lol.
The air will be pumped into the barbed fittings by an aquarium pump that's good for about 30-40 LPM. The barbs will pass the air through the mount and into the air passages that will then bring it over to the air inlet holes coming in to the motors that I put into the front endbells. The air will exit through holes that are in the rear endbell that should immediately carry the heat away from the brushes right out the back. The stock fans will then evacuate that from the case. Excuse the modeling work, it was just a quickie to give people an idea what's going on. I'm going to try it with room temp air first and chill it if necessary. I'm hoping room temp air will be good enough. Space is very tight so everything is a close fit but it does clear. I thought about also adding heatsinks to the cans but I want to see how it works first, of course. Lots of testing to do, lol.
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- 1,603
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- Eric_J2358
Hell yea EricMaybe I should sell my CSW MB"2" spare block......
Heh, you could try, but don't go too crazy with the price, I could have them made for a few bucks each.
Glad you guys like the looks of the setup, I'm hoping to have the protos finished tonight. I'll put up the finished photos later. It seems like a pretty promising setup, and I've taken the stock motors into account in designing the parts so the stock air holes will line up also. To use this setup on stock motors all that needs to be done is the stock heatsink removed or modded to make room for the air lines and barbs, then make sure the motors are mounted so the extra holes in the end of the can are towards the middle of the mount so they line up with the air passages.
I'm going to be running a marathon testing session without the cooling running (just the stock fans) and charting temperatures with a thermocouple and torque at the wheel with a fish scale, then letting everything cool down to room temp and turning the air pump on and re-charting the temps and torque as I race the same races with the same setup.
P.S. if any of you guys that are also iRacing members could post a link there in the CSW owner's thread to this updated thread I would appreciate it. I know there were quite a few guys there that were interested in following along with the mods but my membership ran out before I could let them know I would have to be leaving and funds have been a little tight for me with my bad back and not being able to work full time.
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- 18603
- Intimidat3r421
Eric,
Just bumped your thread on iRacing. I will send you my log on info so you can check the ones interested.
Cheers,
Anthony
Also, could we send you the wheel for install? And what do you expect this to overall cost? Thanks!
EDIT: Looks like this still has major steam. Mainly from overseas based enthusiasts Eric, more to likely post over the day.
Just bumped your thread on iRacing. I will send you my log on info so you can check the ones interested.
Cheers,
Anthony
Also, could we send you the wheel for install? And what do you expect this to overall cost? Thanks!
EDIT: Looks like this still has major steam. Mainly from overseas based enthusiasts Eric, more to likely post over the day.
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- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Sending the wheel for install is not a problem. So far, of the two guys who have recently gone for the Bühler motor setup through me, one has sent just the motor block and one the whole wheel base. I can provide the setup as a service to those who need it, or just sell parts if guys can do the machining themselves. I don't have a set price yet because I am waiting on quotes from a CNC shop to make parts in higher quantities.
Thank you for the bump Anthony, I appreciate it.
Thank you for the bump Anthony, I appreciate it.
Mayaman
Premium
- 2,224
Well I have zero ability to machine and zero electric ability so I'd pay you and send you the entire base so long as when I get it back its rock solid. 
Let me know when you want me to send it in. Mine is a Beta wheel for what its worth, its got nothing wrong with it but should I wait till it does?
Thanks for the service, also I'm only 450 miles from you so shipping is easy peasy.
thanks again
Let me know when you want me to send it in. Mine is a Beta wheel for what its worth, its got nothing wrong with it but should I wait till it does?
Thanks for the service, also I'm only 450 miles from you so shipping is easy peasy.
thanks again
- 572
- 18603
- Intimidat3r421
No problem on the bump , looks like there will be many that would like this "mod". Again, a LOT overseas per the iRacing thread..... Not sure of logistics, price, etc on your end.
Agreed with Mayaman, I would prefer to send it to you Eric. And, the answer to his question.
Thanks a bunch! With the way the wheel is holding up very well over now almost 2 years, this will be a nice upgrade in performance!
, looks like there will be many that would like this "mod". Again, a LOT overseas per the iRacing thread..... Not sure of logistics, price, etc on your end.Agreed with Mayaman, I would prefer to send it to you Eric. And, the answer to his question.
Thanks a bunch! With the way the wheel is holding up very well over now almost 2 years, this will be a nice upgrade in performance!
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Wrong, the shroud fits almost just like factory. There is a small gap at the top of the shroud and I will supply the longer spacers and bolts necessary as part of the mod package. I also change to longer 3mm motor
mounting bolts because IMO the ones Fanatec supplied are too short. Here's a photo of my assembled CSW showing the small gap:
I can actually even eliminate this but I prefer to leave it since it gives more room between the motor endbell and the MOSFET heatsink. It also seems a nice way to allow a little more heat out.
You need to decide for yourself when to send your wheel, that's up to you. I would ask you to wait at least until I get pricing set though, hopefully this week or next. I accepted the whole wheel base from another guy before pricing was set because he is down without his wheel and I wanted to help him get running again. I will say that the wheel will be a decent bit stronger with the new motors and the longevity should be excellent. As I've said previously, I've been running my first set of Bühler motors for almost a year now and they are still rock-solid. I went through 3 pairs of stock motors in less than a year.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
No problem on the bump
Agreed with Mayaman, I would prefer to send it to you Eric. And, the answer to his question.
You are very lucky if your wheel lasted 2 years with no motor issues, If mine had I might never had modded it. Well, I still might have tried the cooling mods.
Shipping outside the U.S. won't be a big deal for the parts probably but if the entire wheel base needs to be shipped it will probably not be cheap. Hopefully most guys can make do with just a drop-in motor block, and I can just ship that out easy-peasy.
I am glad there is still interest from the iRacing guys, I kind of felt like I abandoned them when I had to leave the site! Once I finish a few setups and pay some bills hopefully I can rejoin. I really like the hardware forum over there.
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- 1,603
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- Eric_J2358
Sure, I haven't tried it yet on my own wheel but I may shave a few belts to try out now that I have it apart again. Flipping the pulleys probably won't have much effect since the Bühler motors have ball bearings. I need to call the new motor guy this week too and see if he's been able to find anything. In the meantime if people are wanting the Bühler motors I have no hesitation to install those, they are just a little more work mod-wise. I still don't know if we'll ever get a good drop in motor solution or not for sure.
- 20
- Switzerland
- geg_geg
eKretz, I am not sure to understand what will exactly be included in the mod pack. Could you detail it please? As i already said i am really interested in your mod. 
are new motors included?
is new power supply needed/included?
what about pulley and belt?
Thx in advance
are new motors included?
is new power supply needed/included?
what about pulley and belt?
Thx in advance
- 9,686
- Portland, OR
- Jump_Ace
- JUMPxACE
I shipped my wheel base just to have Eric test it and ensure all is well before shipping it back. Shipping is more obviously, but worth it to make sure everything works imo.
I also bought my Buhler motors online separately and shipped them with the wheelbase. I also bought two other Buhler motors as spares that I'm shipping to Eric separately to trim the rear driveshaft and remove the brown gear on the top of the driveshaft. This way I can (hopefully) replace the motors myself in the future. 👍
Eric has been excellent to work with. Fanatec should take note!
Jerome
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
eKretz, I am not sure to understand what will exactly be included in the mod pack. Could you detail it please? As i already said i am really interested in your mod.
are new motors included?
is new power supply needed/included?
what about pulley and belt?
Thx in advance
There will be plenty of options, from individual parts to a drop-in motor block with motors, pulleys and cooling setup already installed. I will offer recommendations for power supply and air cooling pump, but all are free to try their own options. Generally, for a complete motor block with cooling option, you will get:
2 Buhler motors shortened, with pulleys installed, a new motor mount with all fittings assembled, quick release barbed fittings installed in the housing and plumbed to the motor mount fittings so all you need to do is hook up your 3/16" ID tubing on the outside of the housing and an air pump, longer bolts in the motors, and longer spacers and bolts for the PCB and shroud mounting (6 bolts and 6 spacers). Here is what the parts breakdown will look like:
The cooling mod will work with the stock motors also, but as you can see in this photo, it's crucial to have the motors facing the right direction so the air holes will line up.
(Note that this motor mount has already been machined to fit a Buhler motor, that's why the pilot holes are much larger than the stockers, the mounting bolt holes have been slotted open and also the air passage holes are present). You can also see in this photo how not flat the mounting surfaces of the motor mounts are - around the (4) M6 holes that mount up against the backside of the front aluminum plate on the wheel the areas are visible where the paint is removed from when I flattened the front of the motor mount so there aren't any high spots that gouge the aluminum when adjusting belt tension.
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- Eric_J2358
Yup, the air gets blown in through the holes in the motor mount and will exit through holes in the back of the motor. This way the heat produced at the armature and brushes gets evacuated immediately rather than having to wait for the heat to soak all the way through everything and get through the steel motor can before the stock heat sink can take it away. This type of setup is similar to one used in cooling industrial motors and known as CACA; Closed Air Circuit Air Cooled. (Nice acronym, right?) The only difference is this setup isn't closed circuit so it always has a supply of room temp air and hopefully won't need a heat exchanger. Both the Bühler motors and the stock motors have holes in the rear for the hot air to exit. I have to drill the front entry holes in the Bühler motors but the stockers have front holes already.
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- 84
- Central Wisconsin
eKretz - it's great to see the progress being made on this mod. I will continue to watch with great interest.
I have one question regarding the improved torque when using the Buhler's, does the increased strength have any affect on clipping within a given title? In other words, does clipping occur at the same signal output or is it relative to the motor strength?
I have one question regarding the improved torque when using the Buhler's, does the increased strength have any affect on clipping within a given title? In other words, does clipping occur at the same signal output or is it relative to the motor strength?
- 1,603
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- Eric_J2358
Shouldn't really be any effect per se. For those unfamiliar, clipping is when the software is asking for more torque output but the wheel has no more to give. For instance the wheel is outputting 100% of its available torque when the software is asking for 90%. So now when the software requests 100% torque what do you get? The same as when it requested 90%. So you feel no difference. The torque produced by the wheel is a function of the output current from the circuit, not the motors. Changing the motors won't affect that as a percentage of maximum, but will change the amount of force delivered at the wheel rim for the same software percentage demand. For a small example, I used to run my CSW in GT5 at a FFB setting of 8-10 when it had the stock motors. With the Buhlers I have been running more like 4-6.
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- 84
- Central Wisconsin
Best explanation I've herard of how clipping works - thank you! That is what I was hoping for, improved performance with less stress on the motors. For those who don't know, some titles use a clipping monitor as a tool to set force strength - iRacing, Pcars, and AC do - not sure about rF2.
