Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

[eKretz]

Thanks, me too! I am running FW 037. The reason it comes to center easily after the end of the cal is because I did a lot of friction reducing mods. Don't forget also that I was hand holding the motor in the video and it only had one motor operating the belt, so it isn't completely normal as per usual, but when it is fully installed it basically does it the same exact way as in my video with one motor handheld.

 

[MartyU]

VICTORY!!

Way to go Eric. Very impressive repair. Shows what's possible when you never say die.

 

[eKretz]

Haha, it's a little sloppy, but it works! I could have done a lot nicer job if I could afford one of those sweet PCB repair kits but they're pretty expensive.

The "correct" way would be to cut out all the damaged traces and fiberglass with a Dremel or similar tool and then repair the via with some copper trace from the kit so it's soldered to the underside of the front copper trace and you have the other end sticking up above the board surface on the back side, fill the hole with nonconductive epoxy until it's flush to the original fiber board, then after that dries you scrape the conformal coating off the old traces where you'll be splicing them, bend the bit of trace from the via that's sticking up so it lays flat, take some trace material from the repair kit (copper sheet) and cut new traces and epoxy them in place (special high temp epoxy) so that they overlap the old traces. Then solder the trace ends together and put a new layer of conformal coating over the top.

I only wish I could find some of those old board repair kits cheap somewhere or on eBay, but hardly anyone has the skill to use them anymore so they sell for a lot even on eBay.

 

[Nick Moxley]

Such a wealth of Knowledge and willing to help Anyone. You're Awesome Eric. 👍👍

 

[eKretz]

Well shucks. Lol. Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Piumaz]

Today, after using the csw for a while, I noticed the fan (I'm using the stock one by now) stopped working.
When I turned on the base the fan spinned like usual but now it doesn't give any sign of life, from both the fan 1 and fan 2 connections on the board. It can't be the fan as I tried 3 different ones with different cables, all of them working on the pc. It seems the 2 fan inputs stopped powering all of a sudden. eKretz, I remember you said it is possible to connect to the 24v needed for the fan in another part of the board, this in order to have the fans always spinning at max speed. Has anyone had this kind of problem with his csw?

 

[eKretz]

You might have done some damage when you plugged the 12V fan into the 24V socket - you can always direct wire a fan or fans easily enough to the solder joints on the power jack. Just mage sure you get the polarity correct! Or you might burn up the fans.

Another thing you could try is reflashing the firmware. Seems very odd if the fans spin during calibration but not otherwise.

 

[LeMansAid]

Today, after using the csw for a while, I noticed the fan (I'm using the stock one by now) stopped working.

I don't have a CSW, but the Porsche wheels switch between fan always on, and on after a certain amount of heat when firmware is checked. I notice that the CSW displays firmware on startup, but is there a way to change fan modes? If so, maybe you did it accidentally.

 

[Piumaz]

I don't have a CSW, but the Porsche wheels switch between fan always on, and on after a certain amount of heat when firmware is checked. I notice that the CSW displays firmware on startup, but is there a way to change fan modes? If so, maybe you did it accidentally.

I flashed the firmware twice and nothing changed, until there is an always off mode, I suspect like eKtretz said, that something damaged in the fans controller. Anyway I'm cabling an external 12v power supply dedicated to fans, bypassing the csw electronics and being able to use 12v "regular" pc fans as well.

 

[eKretz]

Some of the older firmware I thought had a temp controlled/always on fan mode choice but I don't think there was ever a way to turn the fans completely off. I'm not sure what could be going on if the fans are spinning at startup but then shutting off - that's very weird.

 

[Piumaz]

Some of the older firmware I thought had a temp controlled/always on fan mode choice but I don't think there was ever a way to turn the fans completely off. I'm not sure what could be going on if the fans are spinning at startup but then shutting off - that's very weird.

No, now it doesn't spin even at startup.
Being not so skilled with soldering, I preferred to use a very little netbook 12v adapter to be used only for fans, temp meter and other 12v pc stuffs using standard molex. After a little testing, I'm very happy with my 2 fans spinning always at max speed (like you said you did). The airflow is really increased this way and, from what I'm experiencing, I have a lot more playtime before losing FFB power than before. Obviously the noise level increased a lot but still under the threshold of my audio levels.

 

[eKretz]

Yup, I feel the same way. Much benefit for little bother.

 

[F1 Enthusiast]

I've been following this thread for quite some time. Simply amazing work eKretz.

I had a question regarding the effect of in-game settings vs wheel settings. I'm wondering if either or have a greater impact on the useful life of a motor.

For example, if I run the wheel settings at 100% FFB on the wheel and GT6 at 4 in game........ vs running 40% FFB in the wheel and 8 on GT6 in game. Which one will destroy the motor faster, if there is any difference at all.

I've gone through 2 motors on my CSW and now Fanatec wants me to send in the wheel for repair. Not really interested in that, as the same thing will happen in 6 months. What a horrible design for such a beautiful product.

eKretz, I'm hoping you can provide me with your alternative motor set-up. I will be PM'ing you...

Thanks,

 

[Piumaz]

I've been following this thread for quite some time. Simply amazing work eKretz.

I had a question regarding the effect of in-game settings vs wheel settings. I'm wondering if either or have a greater impact on the useful life of a motor.

For example, if I run the wheel settings at 100% FFB on the wheel and GT6 at 4 in game........ vs running 40% FFB in the wheel and 8 on GT6 in game. Which one will destroy the motor faster, if there is any difference at all.

I've gone through 2 motors on my CSW and now Fanatec wants me to send in the wheel for repair. Not really interested in that, as the same thing will happen in 6 months. What a horrible design for such a beautiful product.

eKretz, I'm hoping you can provide me with your alternative motor set-up. I will be PM'ing you...

Thanks,

It's really hard and practically useless to calculate an "absolute" FFB value considering also the in game settings. For what I've seen, in order to avoid losing the lowest range of FFB forces in GT6, is better to set the max value within the game, leaving the overall strenght to the csw settings. Remember that, like said many times, even if the FFB clipping issue was solved with fw update, you always lose weaker forces if you set low ffb value. Now that I maxed the fan air cooling in my csw, I will use it in GT6 with ingame value 10 without powersteering and FFB 70-80 For 100 on the wheel itself. I decided to go this way without any compromise until my motors dies again, then I will get the eKretz latest mod...

 

[eKretz]

It won't really matter which way you do the settings I think - the important factor is the power delivered at the wheel rim - equal power makes equal heat, no matter which settings you use to get there. It's difficult to say for sure however, and the best way to find that out may well be to run some races with a temp probe on your motors.

 

[F1 Enthusiast]

Thanks for the reply's gentlemen. Makes sense. Any additional FFB creates more heat, no matter how you get there. . Stupid question I guess, but grasping at straws here.

Pretty frustrated with this purchase and with Fanatec's lack of recognition or resolution of the issue. Just the same old line...... "V2" motors and "send it in for repair".

Can't repair an engineering design with more of the same garbage. And to boot, they won't sell you new motors. I asked if I could BUY 2 or 3, so I wouldn't have down time with the wheel and of course that is NOT an option. What company won't sell a customer a product??? They don't like money??

Almost like they are trying to alienate their customers and push them to other products. Frustrating because they have so much potential.

That's my rant for the day.... .

 

[Jump_Ace]

^ I used to work as a tech support manager for a hard drive manufacturer name LaCie and the reason behind that in 'their eyes' is that you won't buy a competitors product, but that you loved their product so much, you'll buy another. They drink the company kool-aid and suddenly consumers don't matter as much. Is it me, or do companies just hire accounts to be CEO's?

You can't look at the bottom line in obvious cases like this. You picked bad motors, the consumer shouldn't get punished, the supplier of the motors or the company selling them should. But of course, like any 'big company' or a company that wants to play ball like a big company it's all about money and time spent supporting consumers hurts that bottom line. So, lines are drawn in the sand as to what a company will or will not do. Instead of providing a service/product to a consumer.

Jerome

 

[Eglan]

Guru eKretz,
I am presently in the uk and (away from my home/workshop) and therefore do not have access to be able to measure the diameter of the shaft coming from the CSW wheelbase, which the quick release male end fits on. I believe it to be 30mm, am I correct? What is the exact external diameter? What is the diameter of the quick release male end?
Thanks

 

[Eglan]

If the guru is away from his computer and any of our another gurus can provide me with this information, I would be very appreciative.

 

[eKretz]

Yeah it seems over the last couple decades (maybe even longer) there has been a gradual shift from providing excellent products that are among the best available to providing products that "do the job" for the lowest price. There are still niche industries with companies that make very high quality stuff, but they seem to be fewer and farther between as time marches on. I agree fully with you guys that Fanatec dropped the ball with these motors.

 

[eKretz]

When you say "exact" diameter how close of a measurement are you looking for? If I can use a digital caliper and that's close enough then I won't need to go grab a .0001" reading micrometer, lol.

Edit: just shotgunned it.

Steering shaft diameter = 1.179" (29.94mm)
QR Male diameter = 1.4985" (38.06mm)
QR Female diameter = 1.506" (38.25mm)

Note that these sizes are only representative of my own wheel and there may be some variance between wheels/bases (they are made in China, after all). I just took a quick measurement with a caliper - so measurements may be +/- .001"

 

[fatkrakr]

Can't repair an engineering design with more of the same garbage. And to boot, they won't sell you new motors. I asked if I could BUY 2 or 3, so I wouldn't have down time with the wheel and of course that is NOT an option. What company won't sell a customer a product??? They don't like money??

I think the reason for this is supply of the motors. I think I seen somewhere these motors are no longer in production. So at some point with the failure rate the motor supply will run out. I believe that's why you now need to send the wheel for repair. Normally only one of the motors good bad and they where replacing both. Now they can just replace the burnt motor. Shipping these heavy wheels is WAY more expensive than the cost of these junk motors, but they have a limited supply so they are eating the cost difference.

 

[lemansfanatic]

eKretz,

I was just surfing the web and I noticed the 'Happ Steering Wheel' from an arcade. Than I found this link to a dude who used a amplifier (for brushed DC motors) to amplify the signal coming off of his Logitech wheel's circuit board and drive a bigger motor.

Would something like this be possible with a Fanatec wheel as well? It won't look pretty, but I was just wondering if we could use bigger and meaner looking motors.
Of course the problem is more that of space inside the wheel's enclosure than anything else. Which is a pretty enclosure.

The bigger the motor, the sooner we can go below its maximum output. If we go below its maximum output it won't get that hot. etc etc

Maybe nothing can be learned of this though. Just wanted to share anyways as it seemed interesting.

Here's the link: http://home.comcast.net/~mshaker/marks_arcade_006.htm


Edit:
Here's another guy who 'remodeled' an initial D cabinet. (shame the pics are dead)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=105186.0

This sounds like the ultimate mod, as it can be theortically done to any wheel as long as there is space to accomodate larger more robust internals. Would like to details of someone who successfully used a cheaper stock wheel like G27 and modded it with this amplifier + larger motor trick, and how it would compare to the CSW. Because if the motor is so big it doesn't fit into the housing, why would you waste money on the CSW anyways? Start with something cheaper if all you need are the basic electronic components.

 

[MartyU]

I think the reason for this is supply of the motors. I think I seen somewhere these motors are no longer in production. So at some point with the failure rate the motor supply will run out. I believe that's why you now need to send the wheel for repair. Normally only one of the motors good bad and they where replacing both. Now they can just replace the burnt motor. Shipping these heavy wheels is WAY more expensive than the cost of these junk motors, but they have a limited supply so they are eating the cost difference.

I've had the same thought. If these motors were a low cost special order they could run out eventually. Trying not to imagine warehouse full of thousands of pallets of them. My hope is if Fanatec is to continue to produce these wheels they will eventually come up with a different motor before their reputation is completely ruined. Until then Eric is our guy.

 

[LogiForce]

This sounds like the ultimate mod, as it can be theortically done to any wheel as long as there is space to accomodate larger more robust internals. Would like to details of someone who successfully used a cheaper stock wheel like G27 and modded it with this amplifier + larger motor trick, and how it would compare to the CSW. Because if the motor is so big it doesn't fit into the housing, why would you waste money on the CSW anyways? Start with something cheaper if all you need are the basic electronic components.

Actually here is another idea that sprouted from that actually...

posted it at the BasherBoards forum: http://www.basherboards.com/forum/thread-9-post-91.html#pid91

 

[F1 Enthusiast]

^ I used to work as a tech support manager for a hard drive manufacturer name LaCie and the reason behind that in 'their eyes' is that you won't buy a competitors product, but that you loved their product so much, you'll buy another. They drink the company kool-aid and suddenly consumers don't matter as much. Is it me, or do companies just hire accounts to be CEO's?

You can't look at the bottom line in obvious cases like this. You picked bad motors, the consumer shouldn't get punished, the supplier of the motors or the company selling them should. But of course, like any 'big company' or a company that wants to play ball like a big company it's all about money and time spent supporting consumers hurts that bottom line. So, lines are drawn in the sand as to what a company will or will not do. Instead of providing a service/product to a consumer.

Jerome

Agreed, but Fanatec is not a big company. LaCie sells their products at Best Buy, Amazon and pretty much every computer and electronics shop. Fanatec sells their products through their website.... And now i see why. The return lines would be huge.

Fanatec is a small niche company, which compete's with big companies like Logitech and Thrustmaster. Their only competitive advantage is design and quality. In some cases on par (911 wheel) and in some cases as a premium (CSW product line).

You cannot have your premium line failing like crazy. And if you do, you need to be upfront with your customers, recognize the problem, come up with a solution for them and do everything you can to keep them on board. Premium customers pay the bills. Margins are bigger on higher cost products.

The last thing you do is pretend the problem doesn't exist and you have a "V2" solution and that "sending it in for repair" is somehow going to address your engineering design flaw.

I love their products (in theory), but they are seriously testing my patience. Thrustmaster is probably my next stop, if something doesn't change with this company. Sad.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I love their products (in theory), but they are seriously testing my patience. Thrustmaster is probably my next stop, if something doesn't change with this company. Sad.

Like you I like fanatec products, to me they represent extremly good value, my elite pedals and the CSS SQ are excellent.
But then they have some other excellent product with issue, like in the example of the standard pedals I am still using every week with my Carrera wheel when I am on the road, I purchase the little ( magic ) box from Mr Basher and the pedals work perfectly with it.
As far as the obvious (except for Fanatec) motors issue with the Elite/CSW wheel, Eric comes along and offer a solution that allows us to have our cake and heat it too. If, but we do, we did not have any alternative, I, like you, would most likely consider using an other brand of wheel, but with a little help from our firends, there is no reason not to keep enjoying our Fanatec accessories, as after all, when they work, they are outstanding.

 

[LogiForce]

About Fanatec... I wonder why we haven't heard or seen of them in the public domain for a while? Busy with new products and moving on from at least their 'Forza branded' wheels maybe? I don't know, but at least I haven't seen Thomas write a comment here in a while. Also 911wheel.de has its last post on December 3rd 2013 (it's April 2nd 2014 now... 4 months later).

So yeah... what's going on I wonder?

 

[F1 Enthusiast]

I think the reason for this is supply of the motors. I think I seen somewhere these motors are no longer in production. So at some point with the failure rate the motor supply will run out. I believe that's why you now need to send the wheel for repair. Normally only one of the motors good bad and they where replacing both. Now they can just replace the burnt motor. Shipping these heavy wheels is WAY more expensive than the cost of these junk motors, but they have a limited supply so they are eating the cost difference.

I don't believe supply is an issue.

Fanatec could have done exactly what eKretz is doing and come up with a mod and firmware release to ensure the CSW can actually function as they describe in their sales pitch (Novel idea). Sell the mod to customers out of warranty and ship it to customers with warranty, who have issues.

I'm thinking it would be cheaper than employing 50 customer support agents working with every CSW owner and paying for shipping of 30 pound wheels, all over the planet.

One thing I know. Lying to customers and telling them you have "V2" motors and that they should "send it in for repair" is not a good business practice. No matter what the excuse.

 

[fatkrakr]

I don't believe supply is an issue.

Fanatec could have done exactly what eKretz is doing and come up with a mod and firmware release to ensure the CSW can actually function as they describe in their sales pitch (Novel idea). Sell the mod to customers out of warranty and ship it to customers with warranty, who have issues.

I'm thinking it would be cheaper than employing 50 customer support agents working with every CSW owner and paying for shipping of 30 pound wheels, all over the planet.

One thing I know. Lying to customers and telling them you have "V2" motors and that they should "send it in for repair" is not a good business practice. No matter what the excuse.

Agreed 100%, but for whatever reason Fanatec doesn't seem willing to admit the motors are junk.