- 1,214
Since we are pulling numbers out of thin air. For every person who comes here to report an issue there is probably 100 more who haven't posted them.
Fanatec is making me sad.
- Thread starter bigsilverhotdog
- 234 comments
- 20,071 views
MagpieRacer
Premium
- 17,121
- Wymondham, Norfolk
- Seagull_Racer
So for 100 who haven't posted an issue there is probably 10'000 who haven't had an issue.
Wanna keep going in circles?
- 38
- 1,214
Don't we all?
Yeap. NR2003 is one of my all time favorite racing games.
- 285
- dougdoberman
You're not serious with these numbers are you?
I know there's a little game of hypothetical numbers going on, but I wonder how many Fanatec setups people actually believe have been sold?
People need to remember that Fanatec is a niche company with, in the grand scheme of things, a miniscule install base. They sell a moderately high priced peripheral for a relatively small gaming community. And they sell it solely on the web. They simply cannot be moving big numbers.
Even amongst the more involved sim racers who frequent sites like this and insidesimracing and the like, the amount of Fanatec owners is dwarfed by people with Logitech (or other) setups.
The fact that there's a pretty constant stream of Fanatec QA/CS complaint threads being created on these forums says to me that a seriously inordinate percentage of their products are suffering from issues and/or they're having problems with proper support for those issues. I'd imagine that every one of those threads represents a not insignificant percentage of their sales.
- 38
Careful there, that sounds an awful lot like common sense.
- 449
- Toronto
- SignsOfChaos
- SignsOfChaos
dougdoberman
It's hard to know obviously but I think Fanatec does OK sales wise especially considering they primarily are a web sales only brand. I took a quick look at my account and the various orders I've made since 2010. As an example, from October 14, 2011 to Nov 16, 2011 based on my order numbers they did just shy of 2000 orders in that time span. Obviously it's anybody's guess how many setups were sold in that span.
And no matter what you might think or believe the sim wheel business for the $200+ bracket is a niche business period regardless of manufacturer. Logitech may dwarf all the other brands in terms of install base but they've also been selling said products for what seems like forever and also enjoy a huge dealer base and a marketing department that has a larger budget for marketing alone than say Fanatec or Thrustmaster likely does for developing new products.
At the end of the day the important thing is we have these companies making these products for enthusiasts like ourselves and the more the better because it pushes the competition to make their products better and to develop new and exciting products to pry our hard earned money from our hands.
- 128
- Newark, CA USA
- LostRacer
- LostRacer2
You don't say...
As far as numbers go, all your doing is rattling off your ill emotions because you're upset. Unless you work there or Thomas has posted their sales numbers, you don't have a clue what their numbers are. So all that bickering is for not. In case you haven't noticed, for all of the complaints there are those that come in and defend Fanatec. So what next? You cries have been heard. This is getting old. I don't post much but I read daily and its the same crap over and over again. Everytime something bad happens, instead of doing research to resolve a the issue peopel come and complain. Fine. Complain and get it over with. The same asnwers are given everytime on what to do but everyone feels they are "TOO GOOD" to do it and just want to troll. Grow up and handle your issues like an adult. Realize those people you are dealing with are PEOPLE as well and do have lives. You can't expect Thomas to be monitoring his emails 24/7. Thats not how life works. You will not die if you don't have an answer the next day. Be patient and in end you'll get your just desserts.
On the OTHER side of things. It could be just an urge or what, but "there is no reason to feed the trolls". Just an expression. Don't go into a complaint thread and try to rile up the op. Thats just stupid IMO. Obviously they are upset and are going to post angrily. Thats called venting. Guess what...Ignore it. Post something helpful and they respond in a resolving manner continue to help. Theres no need to attempt to "JUDGE" them based on their emotional posting. If they are upset they are not going to listen regardless. Let them all collaborate in their own thread and leave them be. There is enough info on this board where a new user can decipher for themselves whether or not they want to deal.
Good luck in your dealings.
MagpieRacer
Premium
- 17,121
- Wymondham, Norfolk
- Seagull_Racer
Well, 10'000 Turbo S wheels were sold. How I know? It was a 10'000 unit limited run and it sold out. So there's a minimum number to work with.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,041
- N Ireland
Very interesting analysis and point of view you have.
Thanks for sharing and giving your knowledge.
November 2011
The ENDOR AG has announced the formation of the ENDOR Japan KK Incorporation. The company was registered in the Japanese commercial register and is already in the Christmas season 2011 first sales call.
In the first 10 months of 2011 Endor AG generated revenues of EUR 3.7 million.
During the same period was the daughter of Endor USA LLC. USD revenues of $ 2.4 million
Sales have increased 75% in the same period last year.
ENDOR employ approx 12 people.
Thank you for your cooperation, have a good day. 👍
- 1,214
That's probably because every dollar Endor makes off a wheel they make $100 off of porn.
- 1,495
Unfortunately, afaik Fanatec does not report the failure rates of their products. Though we all know it was higher than normal about 1 year ago with the batch of GT2 wheels. iirc, one factory in China had extremely poor QC and a very high failure rate of wheels and Fanatec eventually shut down that factory. It was reported that this was the cause for the lag in GT2 wheels that lasted several months.
From what I have seen at the blog Thomas appears to be taking the QC issue seriously. It would not surprise me if these new wheels are durable and sturdy!
So, yes, Fanatec does have an issue with quality and customer service, but it appears they are working hard to fix both problems! hang in there!
- 285
- dougdoberman
I'm not quite sure what your point is here.
Are you attempting to use these numbers to refute my claim that Fanatec is a niche supplier with a tiny market?
If so, do the math. Even going by conservative numbers for what each individual customer spends on Fanatec gear, that's a very small amount of customers to be generating the amount of QA/CS complaints that it does.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,041
- N Ireland
Actually I'm not attempting anything.
I provided actual figures for those people including yourself making your own speculation on sales or the success of the brand. Their continued growth and expansion in Japan to open up new markets is quite impressive. If you still want to assume a company with $6 million+ turnover in 10 months has a "minscule install base" that's fine with me but many I think with those kind of numbers will disagree.
I provided actual figures for those people including yourself making your own speculation on sales or the success of the brand. Their continued growth and expansion in Japan to open up new markets is quite impressive. If you still want to assume a company with $6 million+ turnover in 10 months has a "minscule install base" that's fine with me but many I think with those kind of numbers will disagree.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
Which is my point exactly, fanatec has probably taking over wheel sales for sims, but there costumer service still lacks seriuosly. I understand defending a company but with fanatec sales numbers, something needs to change to stay on top. I want the new wheel, just not sure its worth my money because at $6oo I dont think if something goes wrong I should be the one jumping through hoops. I paid you (fanatec) good money for my product, WHY if its broke do I have to jump through hoops?? In my opinion that just doesnt make any sense. I pay YOU (fanatec) but if it malifunctions its my responsibility to prove the faullt or you wont respond to emails. (If I've read that correct). Not sure I want to deal with that much BS when Im the one putting out the cash. If im wrong on the CS thing please correct me.
LogiForce
Premium
- 4,078
- Groningen, Netherlands
- LogiForce86
- LogiForce
Maybe a tip is for everyone with huge disagreements to talk it over in realtime in chat sometime. There is a link in the top right corner of the forum I believe. Hopefully that will be easier to get things said and done, and maybe clear up things along the way.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
- 16
- So Cal
- thenextsketch
For those interested in Fanatec's financials, head on over to Bloomberg where there is an interactive chart on their performance. To summarize, they have a market cap of 3.2mil with 1.6mil shares trading at around 2€ with an earnings ratio of 0.090. The stock price has seen a 52 week high of 2.89€ with a low of 0.32€. Was not able to see info on unit volume though and ROE was listed as N.A.
So hopefully this can bring facts to folks who like to talk figures.
FYI, probably can look up Logitech and Thrustmaster (Guillemot) too.
So hopefully this can bring facts to folks who like to talk figures.
FYI, probably can look up Logitech and Thrustmaster (Guillemot) too.
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LogiForce
Premium
- 4,078
- Groningen, Netherlands
- LogiForce86
- LogiForce
blacbul67
When you decide to quote a message you always see the message between a code called QUOTE which is in between brackets. Just copy that entirely including the code for quotation and then go to the already made message and edit that message. Then simply copy the text into that message and write your answer to the quote below like normal. Etc...
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,041
- N Ireland
The discussion was about Fanatec not other brands and assumptions were being made regards their install base/faults. If people want to criticise and make assumptions they can but I dont see much evidence to back up their own claims with numbers on failure rates.
Some here believe the failure rate to be rather high or that is what their posts seem to be suggesting particulary not so good with only a small user base. Unlike others making such claims I provided information to help let people decide reading for themselves if they think the userbase is as small as some perhaps imagined. I have not told people what to think I raised a good case to question the points made at them having a very small user base.
ANY company achieving those kind of sales selling steering wheels have to be doing rather well particulary as they only reflect the previous 10 months.
Another example is that we know 10,000 PWTS were sold, yet do you see several hundreds or over a thousand + reports on the internet talking about failures since that wheel was released?
What matters is how the company moves forward and improves their CS but evidence of this has been happening. You also have legal consumer rights and protection with companies that do not produce the service under the warranty they provide. You also agreed to terms with that company when placing the order.
For the record I have no business connection with Fanatec whats this (YOU) stuff?
I think you will find even bigger companies can often require "jumping through hoops". I agree its not what we want but going on here about it wont change much. Their are several reports on the forums that when you try to be cival and work with the people on the other end they seem to be getting more success. At the same time be firm and you do not have to accept ill treatment or failure on their part to uphold their responsibilities under warrenty.
Some here believe the failure rate to be rather high or that is what their posts seem to be suggesting particulary not so good with only a small user base. Unlike others making such claims I provided information to help let people decide reading for themselves if they think the userbase is as small as some perhaps imagined. I have not told people what to think I raised a good case to question the points made at them having a very small user base.
ANY company achieving those kind of sales selling steering wheels have to be doing rather well particulary as they only reflect the previous 10 months.
Another example is that we know 10,000 PWTS were sold, yet do you see several hundreds or over a thousand + reports on the internet talking about failures since that wheel was released?
What matters is how the company moves forward and improves their CS but evidence of this has been happening. You also have legal consumer rights and protection with companies that do not produce the service under the warranty they provide. You also agreed to terms with that company when placing the order.
For the record I have no business connection with Fanatec whats this (YOU) stuff?
I think you will find even bigger companies can often require "jumping through hoops". I agree its not what we want but going on here about it wont change much. Their are several reports on the forums that when you try to be cival and work with the people on the other end they seem to be getting more success. At the same time be firm and you do not have to accept ill treatment or failure on their part to uphold their responsibilities under warrenty.
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- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
I will reiterate what I have said before. I you don't like the manner in which someone posts, report their posts to a moderator and the moderator will decide if the post is in breach of the AUP.
Now, failure rates. This page http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pop/lm_failureRates.html suggests that failure rates of new electronic goods is around 15%. In the first ten months of 2011, we are told, Fanatec had a combined US and European turnover of $7.33 million.
Now I'm going to assume that each customer spends an average of $500 per purchase. So that makes 14,660 customers in the first 10 months of this year. Assuming that each customer only bought one product (unlikely but it makes things easier) and using the average failure rate of new electronics goods from above that gives 2199 failed products.
I don't think the number of people you see around forums complaining about a failed Fanatec product looks too out of the ordinary when compared to that number. Also note that the number of products Fanatec sold in the first ten months is a very conservative estimate and I would imagine the true figure is much higher which in turn using the 15% failure rate would push the number of failures well above the 2199 figure.
It's also worth noting that we are a niche community and I would imagine the vast majority of sim racers frequent the same forums. This leads me to believe that we probably hear about a very large percentage of the problems people have with Fanatec products.
Now, failure rates. This page http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pop/lm_failureRates.html suggests that failure rates of new electronic goods is around 15%. In the first ten months of 2011, we are told, Fanatec had a combined US and European turnover of $7.33 million.
Now I'm going to assume that each customer spends an average of $500 per purchase. So that makes 14,660 customers in the first 10 months of this year. Assuming that each customer only bought one product (unlikely but it makes things easier) and using the average failure rate of new electronics goods from above that gives 2199 failed products.
I don't think the number of people you see around forums complaining about a failed Fanatec product looks too out of the ordinary when compared to that number. Also note that the number of products Fanatec sold in the first ten months is a very conservative estimate and I would imagine the true figure is much higher which in turn using the 15% failure rate would push the number of failures well above the 2199 figure.
It's also worth noting that we are a niche community and I would imagine the vast majority of sim racers frequent the same forums. This leads me to believe that we probably hear about a very large percentage of the problems people have with Fanatec products.
- 572
- 18603
- Intimidat3r421
@PzR Slim, Could you please go down to the Eutechnyx HQ for me and kick their asses for me? Thanks. I see you are in Newcastle, and know they are as well.
They are complete bumbling fools in the racing game making industry, period. Ruined Nascar for younger fans on the consoles completely. Thankfully for us who are serious, iRacing is around.
And I have nothing but great things to say about support for Fanatec. It's LONG TERM reliability that has me at a great concern though........
They are complete bumbling fools in the racing game making industry, period. Ruined Nascar for younger fans on the consoles completely. Thankfully for us who are serious, iRacing is around.
And I have nothing but great things to say about support for Fanatec. It's LONG TERM reliability that has me at a great concern though........
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
lol, I've often thought of going round to see Eutechnyx to ask for a job! We didn't get a release of NASCAR The Game over here so I've never played it but have seen people have been unhappy with it. I did play Ferrari Challenge and Supercar Challenge and those games did hint at great things but I guess it's a hard industry to really be successful in.
As for long term reliability I have had a PWTS since day 1 and it's still going strong now but I do appreciate there are plenty of people who haven't had the experience I have.
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