- 97
- Italy
Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Wheel Bases Thread
- Thread starter super_gt
- 3,719 comments
- 543,136 views
- 1,334
- US. North East region
Comparing the Bodnar was just me looking at the Podium with some optimism. I admit I know little about either wheel, and the podium is still an unknown quantity. I was just surprised at the cost of the Bodnar and assumed if both were equal in real world reliability... hence my post
- 5,051
- Netherlands
The Bodnar is a heavy duty Servo built for hours upon hours day and night of industrial use. That is were the money goes to and why they use it in professional use. The custom Fanatec outrunner motor really still needs to prove itself.
- 634
- Sofia
The benefit for Fanatec was that DD wheel are not from yesterday on the market and in use - they have a lot of info and all options on the table. So, I think they took the right road... I am sure they made a lot of tests with all type of motors...So, the price of not to be one of the Pioneers in DD wheels is well justified with the insurance to play safe for your company and the product to be less risky!
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- 5,051
- Netherlands
True, but fanatec does have a trackrecord of making some mistakes here in there. I was just stating the ones comparing Bodnar v Podium, that the podium needs to equal or nearly equal the performance and reliability of the bodnar to be fairly compared in price and value. Hopefully it does!
- 634
- Sofia
I don`t think that Podium line will beat Bodnar and it is not the idea of Fanatec also...how many of us can buy Bodnar anyway...so I think will be fair to compare DD systems with similar prices... ofcourse will be amazing if DD2 achieves to be preffered choice of racing teams and pro players, it is not impossible IMO.
- 6
- United Kingdom
That's the key. I think Fanatec are targeting the OSW/Accuforce. Fanatec are coming at it from a completely different angle, with a servo produced exclusively for sim racing. However, most people who have had the pleasure of testing an OSW Simcube/Accuforce/Bodnar have opined the Bondnar as being the best, slightly ahead of an OSW Simcube. With the development of the the Simcube firmware and the advent of the DD1/DD2, I'm sure we'll soon have updated comparisons. It's also important to remember that absolute torque is only one aspect of the equation. Electronics/firmware also play a major role, as it's a case of how that torque is transferred in-game, such as smoothness, torque ripple, etc. As someone correctly pointed out, a lot of professional drivers use a Bonder servo as a training tool, as I believe is the case for British F3 driver Jamie Chadwick in the attached video.
Price is subjective and it depends on what one is wiling to pay, but I do agree that the Bondnar is priced considerably higher than its competitors and it won't be justifiable to everyone. Of course, it will be interesting to see how the DD1/DD2 (especially) pans out. More DD wheels can only be a good thing for the DD community as a whole.
- 6
- United Kingdom
Update from Fanatec:
- 6
- United Kingdom
Was very informative. Good to see that Fanatec listened to the community and attached a price to the DD1. €999 is ideal and sits in well with the €1500 price for the DD2. I'm unlikely to be buying this, as I already own a Bonder wheel, but I only see the DD1 and DD2 as a good thing for the sim racing community.
Now that was a good video and has certainly piqued my interest greatly. Hits the €1000 mark I was expecting too and puts it directly on my impulse buy for testing purposes only problem is the DD2 calls to me for that extra Nm.
For me hearing you can use in-game telemetry as FFB just like Sim Commander was the most important thing, now I just need to know about build quality, I can’t be dealing with those terrible aluminium screws/inserts breaking again!
Decisions, decisions, I’m saving for a NLMV3 so this will have to wait unless I risk it all, sell my Accuforce V2 now and go without for 5 months. Maybe I should just drive some more as I’m getting the itch as I’ve not used the rig in this heat! If you didn’t have to put all the money down now I’d stupidly pre-order straight away.
For me hearing you can use in-game telemetry as FFB just like Sim Commander was the most important thing, now I just need to know about build quality, I can’t be dealing with those terrible aluminium screws/inserts breaking again!
Decisions, decisions, I’m saving for a NLMV3 so this will have to wait unless I risk it all, sell my Accuforce V2 now and go without for 5 months. Maybe I should just drive some more as I’m getting the itch as I’ve not used the rig in this heat! If you didn’t have to put all the money down now I’d stupidly pre-order straight away.
- 319
Also a good thing is he said that the first batches of DD1 wheels will have the same motor as the DD2 due to some problems with the DD1, great for the early adopters. Including the PS4 DD1.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
So the DD1 ps4 F1 edition will be around € 1000-1200?
- 1,334
- US. North East region
Update from Fanatec:
10 minute video, 3 minute break... Fanatec you tease!
I'll watch this when I have more time... but judging from a couple of the reactions, there's some good news in this vid.
- 131
- Denmark
- MortenCR
Regarding the Bodnar, OSW comparison to the Podium, the point Thomas is trying to make is that the Podium series has a motor chosen specifically for the task of sim racing, based on research and comparisons with the aforementioned systems. Bodnar and OSW have literally used random industrial motors, as explained numerous times. This is why people are wrong to assume the Bodnar is the better system, just because the price is higher.
- 319
Probably closer to 1500 because of the wheel rim and F1 and Sony licensing fees
- 319
- 100
- Canada
Oh man, I'm so excited! I wish there was more information on the new Podium Racing Wheel!
decisions decisions is right... so, is the first batch of DD1 basically equal to the DD2 without kill switch, looks and warranty?
Sorry, do you mean same motor as DD2?
decisions decisions is right... so, is the first batch of DD1 basically equal to the DD2 without kill switch, looks and warranty?
Sorry, do you mean same motor as DD2?
- 319
P
Not to mention they’ll sell more DD1’s than DD2’s so it would really be mad to sell software limited DD2’s as DD1’s when they would both cost the same to make and then they may as well sell just the DD2 for €1000 and scrap the DD1.
They did say less acceleration too. I’m wondering though if it’s just a software limitation or if the other internals are different too and DD1 spec so the power unit for example which would make it impossible to hack it to boost power. Wouldn’t really make sense to sell a DD2 motor as a cut down DD1 if everything was capable of being at DD2.
Not to mention they’ll sell more DD1’s than DD2’s so it would really be mad to sell software limited DD2’s as DD1’s when they would both cost the same to make and then they may as well sell just the DD2 for €1000 and scrap the DD1.
- 1,334
- US. North East region
The Fanatec's feel is unknown at this point. Once it is out and in the hands of some one with expierence, then the feel comparison and reliability comparisons can be made. Until then, its specs, prices and speculation.
- 6
- United Kingdom
I don't think that the Bonder wheel is adjudged to be the best direct drive wheel on the market due to its price, but rather its performance. Of course, it's an advantage that Fanatec have produced a servo specifically for sim racing, but that's not to say that the Kollmorgen/big/small midge are not good servos. You have to remember that the servo is only one part of the equation. Electronics and software are just as important.
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- 5,051
- Netherlands
And software!
- 6
- United Kingdom
Indeed! Forgot to add that!
- 426
- United States
- andrewhake
Completely agree, not to mention how much better packaged and priced the DD2 is. The amount bodnar is charging for what is essentially an extremely large and overpriced power supply and box of electronics to translate information from the motor to a USB signal is insane compared to Fanatec. They are also using an unnecessarily expensive motor that doesn't offer anything over the other options. The most expensive motors they offer aren't even more powerful than what Fanatec is offering anyway, and Bodnar doesn't even tell you what motor they are selling you on their site which is ridiculous. If it wasn't for Barry Morgan people wouldn't even know which motor it is.
Not to mention all the time, money, and effort Fanatec has put into packaging everything into the actual wheelbase itself, the testing required to avoid EMI issues with everything inside one box, developing proper software, wheel connection to the wheel base itself so one USB cable can be used, OLED display right on the wheelbase with a wealth customizable information, plug and play pedals, shifters, and those lovely new Podium steering wheels that will likely be more complete packages and better designed and built than what any of the DIY companies can offer.
If I had a Bodnar DD setup I would try to sell it all at a loss immediately and pre-order a DD2. Even though there is no way I would be able to find anyone interested in buying it.
- 426
- United States
- andrewhake
Thank you @Fanatec... for making the update video and providing a price for the DD1! And giving the 5 year warranty to all DD2 buyers!
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- 426
- United States
- andrewhake
The Bodnar system uses extremely expensive motors, which in reality won't really offer anything over the other DD options, and they are also charging A LOT for their power supply and electronics package and software. There was definitely a good amount of R&D put into the Bodnar systems, but compared to Fanatec (which has much more manufacturing knowledge and resources, better software development, and so on) the Bodnar package looks pretty amateur in comparison. As Thomas mentioned in the video it is wonderful that Bodnar and other companies put these DIY packages together and helped create the DD market. But with Fanatec in the mix the bar gets greatly raised and they will have to adjust their prices and components to be able to compete. There will always be the small niche that wants a more DIY solution and will think it is better because it is DIY though.
I can assure you the amount of R&D that Fanatec has put into their Podium systems is exponentially higher. They are able to charge less even though their R&D costs are likely much higher because they have good partnerships and can manufacture these at a much larger scale.
- 634
- Sofia
This is the new era 2018/2019 with consumer grade DD wheels - Simplicity Compact line, no matter that looks like normal DD wheel with external box - it is targeted to be plug and play consumer ready with simplified software, FeelVR - also have this target to be consumer wheel with everything set up, now Fanatec with the Podium line..and at least 2 other brands are targeting this just don`t want to mention names at the moment. That means that after 1 maximum 2 years from now the market will look completely different with consumer grade,completely finished looking DD wheels and those that look like DIY will remain like entusiast class for custom heavy power solutions etc...
- 426
- United States
- andrewhake
I think this gets overblown a bit. In reality Bodnar is using a motor that is wildly overspec'd (and priced) for it's intended use, because they don't have the option of designing their own from scratch. If someone swapped in a dramatically cheaper MIGE motor into their Bodnar system I would be very surprised if they could tell the difference in a blind test. I think Fanatec has more than proven itself in creating hardware that can easily stand up to the unique requirements of sim racing.
Pretty soon we will see DIY systems that are $5000-10,000+ that take automotive hydraulic steering racks and large external hydraulic pumps and systems with people claiming it really helps them feel how their sim tires are making contact with the road.
