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Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Wheel Bases Thread
- Thread starter super_gt
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I see this question very often on this forum. I gave up PC gaming long ago. But I 100% agree that PC gaming especially for simracing is much and much better... I just dont want the hassle of setting everything up and want to protect myself from GAS. There also enough people with a € 4k setup with a 100--150 steering wheel so i gues it goes both ways. I also dislike the arrogance the "master race" tend to show sometimes. Why would one spend 20K on a Full setup + VR when its only for a piece of software that costs about 30-60 Euro or less?
Anyways.. as for why would I want an expensive DD for a 3-400 console? Only because I am restricted to certain peripherals doesnt mean I cant enjoy the best peripheral on offer. The plug and play nature is often underrated by PC users. But I will only really buy it if compatibity with a future ps5 is garanteed. In that case you are right... I am not shelling out 1k-1.5k for a system that is going to be absolete in a few years.
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This is the reason I’m hesitating on ordering one since I don’t trust Fanatec to do it, they promised that they would with th CSW but couldn’t at the end
Is GAS, games as a service? If so how exactly is using a console “protecting” yourself from it when you are locked into a closed ecosystem with no escape?!
It’s far more popular and prevalent on console in full priced games than on PC, ignoring that it makes far more sense in both sim racing and sports games to be run as services rather than full priced releases with minor updates annually or bi-annually.
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- Goes_To_11 GTP_GoesTo11
Assuming that your priorities line up with someone else's priorities, usually does not work out so well.
I personally enjoy being able to push a button on my ps4, slide into my cockpit and be driving with a few more button presses. I find it very convenient.
I used to do a lot of PC sim racing and I still have rFactor 2, Automobilista, Assetto Corsa, Project Cars and others. I used to have a triple screen setup and now I have both a Rift and a Vive and two computers powerful enough for VR. I went through a stage where I would only race in VR. I may go back to pc racing at some point but the convenience of console racing suits me right now. It helps that several of my friends are on GT Sport and racing with friends on GT Sport is better than racing with a bunch of people I don't know on iRacing (or other) anyday.
I haven't committed to going to a direct drive yet but it isn't out of the question.
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The biggest risk is not so much the expenditure on the gear, but whether it will work on a PS5. Hopefully Fanatec have a deal so that for the next generation to be compatible, you pay them a license fee for a PS5 upgrade.
PCs can be what you like, for sure ... but a real reason for a good interface to Gran Turismo is its on line racing, which is strong now and becoming stronger. When your racing real people every help is worthwhile. Although most think that pedals are the most important aid to speed, rather than a wheel. But a top wheel cannot hurt.
GAS came originally from HiFi spending. It means Gear Acquisition Syndrome. It's Fanatec's bread and butter probably. For the wheels, those really are derivatives of GAS IMO.
Its funny how I thought $US750 would be a reasonable price for a DD1. But its 33% more expensive than that estimate.
But then when one thinks "I'd like that better technology", $1k doesn't feel much different. That's GAS fumes I reckon. And when frequent users look at the warranty costs for the DD1, the extra cost for a DD2 also doesn't seem bad. And then there's the wheels - the Fanatec assistant here said that most Fanatec users had four wheels. At around $400 a pop, that's GAS territory, especially when the Fanatec wheels are said to have a long life. Yep its likely all a function of GAS.
But to avoid that issue, I prefer to buy something and keep it a long time. I still have a Landcruiser that I bought new in 1997. I have a few vehicles though but its still a great vehicle, but for the fuel consumption. I feel the same way about this type of gear. I don't mind spending if I get what I perceive as quality, and then I keep it. Hence if I buy a CSL Elite setup for the PS4, I'll keep that. And not get a DD. If something better is coming, I'd rather not buy an Elite setup. And who knows, by Christmas someone else may have a DD wheel that works on PC and the PS4.
From a cost point of view though, the most sensible thing for me would be to sell the PS4 and buy a DD1. Because Fanatec's tactic of forcing a GT wheel for a new PS4 wheel buyer results in a high expenditure. And since most Fanatec buyers already have four wheels, then why force them to buy a 5th high level Podium wheel when they buy a PS4 compatible setup? Why not make a Podium wheel an optional purchase at the beginning? I guess Fanatec figure that PS4 users live in a GAS world. I doubt that actually. But there are hardcore 4 hour per day GT users out there, and it won't bother them. But they are actually not the real market.
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Like @Melbourne Park said:
GAS= Gear Acquisition Syndrom
On PS4 ecosystem I’m not tempted in pimping my pc, triple screens, buttkickers, high end hydraulic pedals, 4d motion systems, Wind System, high end custom button boxes and wheel rims etc.
Don’t really agree here. They aren’t forcing anyone. They clearly offer 3 lines of products for different budgets. If you think it’s too expensive buy the cheaper one. I am sure that Fanatec eventually will release the PS4 DD base separate later in its lifespan. They did that with the csl-e. Just be patient! And if you don’t want to wait you indeed can sell the PS4 and get a dd2 for pc or just get a csl-e and be equally satisfied. I’m no Fanatec fanboy, but I can say is that Fanatec is giving a lot of option for various budgets. Most other brands force a certain wheelrim or pedalset on you. Fanatec offers most products already separately. And I’m pretty sure that wheelrim is going to be epic, from the look at the teasers.
You aren’t even bound to Fanatec by the way. Luckily they aren’t a monopoly, there is also Logitech, Thrustmaster and even more options on pc.
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Would that allow me to run Fanatec pedals with a different brand of wheelbase on the PS4? That would be a stop gap that might fit my personality.
For the PS4, there is currently no ClubSport option. So you go from Elite with a 9kg nice wheel with a non Load Cell pedal set that is bundled and discounted off retail for $500, straight to the DD1 PS4 spec with a Podium wheel - lets say it sells for $1,600 - with Clubsport pedals and the foam tuning kit, your spend is $1,970, add a round wheel for driving the majority of cars in Gran Tursimo or Assetto Corsa and your spend is around $2,400. Compared to $500. That's actually quite a jump.
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Yes, you can use what ever you want as long as you can connect them to the PC via USB, I’ve read of people using Thrustmaster wheels with Logitech pedals with USB adapter of course.
I’m currently running
Leo Bodnar SimSteering v2
Ascher-Racing Wheel with magnetic paddles
Fanatec CS V3 pedals (hopefully there will be podium pedals in the near future to upgrade)
Fanatec CS V1.5 shifter
DSD race king button box
Thanks for the clarification on the meaning. I can say all my current upgrades are purely because of VR, I was happy with what I had on an HDTV but as soon as I tried VR I noticed everything that was missing.
I went:
VR > Buttkicker Gamer 2 > CSW V2 to AFV2 > Extra F1 Rim > Next Level GT Ultimate to Sim Lab P1 > 2nd Buttkicker Thumper > V3 Pedals to HE Pro’s > DSD button box > Fanatec HB to HE HB > HE SQ
Next up NLR V3 Motion. It has been a bit of a money pit and now I’ve spent so much the thought of swapping out and trying the Podium instead doesn’t even faze me, I don’t need to but I’m thinking why not
.
Really doesn’t help it’s been too hot to game which makes it feel like I have no rig at all.
I went:
VR > Buttkicker Gamer 2 > CSW V2 to AFV2 > Extra F1 Rim > Next Level GT Ultimate to Sim Lab P1 > 2nd Buttkicker Thumper > V3 Pedals to HE Pro’s > DSD button box > Fanatec HB to HE HB > HE SQ
Next up NLR V3 Motion. It has been a bit of a money pit and now I’ve spent so much the thought of swapping out and trying the Podium instead doesn’t even faze me, I don’t need to but I’m thinking why not
.Really doesn’t help it’s been too hot to game which makes it feel like I have no rig at all.
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Hey this is really great!! Thank you so much! There is no kiss icon, so I hope you are not a teetoller! :
👍I have a Logitech G27, and I don't want to install its pedals into the Sim cockpit, which I picked up yesterday. I'm in Australia, and I bought the RS6 Mach 2 Trakracer cockpit, it looks very easy to put together too, there's only a handful of bolts not installed. The owner is a cool dude and looks 24 years old, but actually he's in his 30's. I've had to be OK at judging males and his age fooled me - he said its common! I guess having a business related to gaming must keep one young! They also have an upgrade option for their older RS6, which I think is really decent of them. The steering pad mechanism is extremely stiff now, I think the side design is now stiff too. No stock available in the USA though (and not in Australia either now I think) but they are on their way.
Funny thing is that now, with the Gimx option - I don't need to get V3 pedals, which I really liked. Their advantage though is I can get them straightaway. But evidently they aren't the best out there, but then, their price point seems good value to me. Some pedals get made in batches and also for USA made gear the shipping costs and the time delays can be horrendous. Fanatec sell in Australia and hence I'll very likely get their V3 pedals. Unless something else is available that makes more sense. Cost is not the issue for me, rather, its value.
Not sure about the connection method, as the Gimx adapter is not shipping until I think the 6th of August. I guess I may have to wait a while too for that. Not sure about how easy they are to make, I'll check that out too. There also seems to be a bluetooth adapter option for the PS4. I need to read up on everything. As soon as I got the cockpit, my wife got jumpy ... thank God she doesn't read these threads ...
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- andrewhake
If you don't want to buy the Podium Racing Wheel with it's included F1 licensed steering wheel, you will just have to wait until they sell the PS4 DD1 without it, similar to what they eventually did with the CSL Elite PS4. If you don't want the F1 wheel for some reason I'm sure you could sell it to one of the many new DD2 or DD1 owners that will be out there once they are released.
And anyway. None of this will even be available until December, and likely later than that for PS4 version so no reason to freak out about all of this. The world doesn't revolve around you.
This isn't some global conspiracy. F1 partnered with Fanatec to make a wheel and of course they will want to put it out there for people wanting to play F1 2018 on PS4.
You can't say "I'm not concerned about cost" and also complain about the cost of an included wheel in the next post. Not to mention, the cost of a wheel is the least of your concerns with a direct drive setup anyway. A cockpit or mounting setup to properly support the DD setup will cost much more than a steering wheel.
Exactly. The ability to use one wheelbase and pedals and everything for PC and for PS4 is the number one selling point for me.
Also. For some people it is more about immersion, which GT Sport does a VERY good job at.
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andrewake, thanks for your comments, but sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say? Global conspiracy etc? Huh?? I thought this was a forum, where people can put their ideas, without fear of personal attacks.
For me I'm going to get the GIMX going and buy some decent pedals, use the PS4 and the PC too I guess, and if Fanatec do allow an auction on the PS4 version I will hopefully bid for it. If Fanatec don't allow an auction on the PS4 version, then I'll wait until they are a stock item and then I'll buy it. I don't see the point in ordering something, paying a retail price for it and then waiting many months for it to ship. Either I'll bid at the auction or I'll wait until they are a stock item.
Thanks to GIMX the pressure is off as it will get me going without having to buy a new wheel (wheelbase and wheel) which I won't want to use when the DD ships.
For me I'm going to get the GIMX going and buy some decent pedals, use the PS4 and the PC too I guess, and if Fanatec do allow an auction on the PS4 version I will hopefully bid for it. If Fanatec don't allow an auction on the PS4 version, then I'll wait until they are a stock item and then I'll buy it. I don't see the point in ordering something, paying a retail price for it and then waiting many months for it to ship. Either I'll bid at the auction or I'll wait until they are a stock item.
Thanks to GIMX the pressure is off as it will get me going without having to buy a new wheel (wheelbase and wheel) which I won't want to use when the DD ships.
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- andrewhake
You seem to just be thinking out loud and letting everyone know every thought what is coming to mind, which is fine, but it makes it extremely difficult to decipher what you are actually trying to say. With each sentence and paragraph you seem to contradict yourself.
As someone who has been waiting years for an official direct drive solution for PS4, hearing comments like "Because Fanatec's tactic of forcing a GT wheel for a new PS4 wheel buyer results in a high expenditure." is extremely annoying. The direct drive steering wheel market is EXTREMELY niche, even more so for use on console, so it is extremely annoying to hear people complaining about relatively minor details that don't fit their particular situation perfectly when Fanatec is the only company on the planet offering a proper DD setup with proper multi-platform compatibility. Fanatec isn't "forcing" anything on anybody. It's an absolute miracle we are getting a PS4 compatible DD setup, and including an F1 licensed wheel probably has played a big role in making that happen.
Also something like GIMX is absolutely not a proper solution for using a DD2 or DD1 on a PS4. GIMX is essentially turning a fancy direct drive setup into a Logitech G29 with more torque at best. Even when using the CSL Elite in emulation mode, which is hardware emulation that doesn't require a connection to a PC, the difference is substantial compared to the feel and response of the wheel in proper PS4 mode. Anyone using a high end PC direct drive setup with a software Logitech G29 emulator definitely isn't experiencing everything GT Sport has to offer.
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Don’t worry he is just saying that he won’t pre order and pay up front all the mula, but he will buy the PS4 DD either when it’s in stock or bid on them if Fanatec puts them up for auction, so all it’s good.
You would be surprised how good GIMX works, only your PS4 thinks is a G29 your wheel setup only knows it’s getting FFB info and that makes it happy, sure console games don’t provide the same FFB level as sims on PC but they are extremely fun to drive around and at the end of the day that’s exactly what we want isn’t it?
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It must have been extremely annoying for you then when Thrustmaster's Direct Drive wheel turned out just to be belt driven.
IMO DD wheelbases are far from mature, but in time they may well outsell all other sim wheel technologies. I've put in production lines with servo motors for a considerable time, and 10 years ago a servo motor station on a machine cost 10,000 euro per servo motor - not the station, just the cost of each servo motor cost the customer 10,000 euro. One production line I installed had 24 moving driven areas moved by individual servo motors, each costing 10,000 Euro. Now such tech is quite cheap. Air conditioners now have motors that match their compressor speed to their required output, hence providing greater efficiency. As do many fridges. Washing machines and clothes dryers are going to that tech too, they have direct drive motors that move in both directions at varying speeds and that have a high speed variance and do a lot of work for a considerable life cycle. Today's car's steering systems are driven by servo motor power assistance (I don't think authorities have yet allowed a servo motor to be directly connected though, they still want the steering to steer even if the motor fails).
Fanatec have used an electric motor from a company that powers bicycles. A whole bike with alloy frame etc and their largest motor (the company sells three motor powers) can be bought for $500. Servo motors for Sim driven wheelbases have only the motor as the moving part, they are inherently cheaper to assemble and less subject to wear than belt or gear driven wheelbases. The DD2's 5 year warranty hence is understandable.
While I am delighted with Fantatec's planned hopefully high volume DD setup, and I'll likely buy their solution, I've not viewed it as some sort of miracle. In fact not so long ago I thought Thustmaster was going to do it before Fanatec did.
And while its up to Fanatec how the bundle their wheelbase products, I would have preferred their PS4 compatible offering to be similar to the other offers, which do not have wheels as part of their wheelbases.
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Thanks for the insights from your own experience on servomotors. From your point of view the manuafacturers need to get caught up with the rapid development of lower cost servo's. I am certain either a newcomer (not FeelVR), logitech or TM are working on a cheaper console compatible DD.
Personally I would like a less powerfull DD (4-8nm) servo in a cheap plastic housing. As long it runs cool and reliable and gives me FFB with high fidelity.
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Well at least I know why Fanatec are selling it with a wheel - thanks for the link and Super_GT. 👍 Its because Sony demand it!!
I think the wheel will sell too, if its discounted, it won't hurt. I guess Fanatec thought it bad business to not sell a Podium quality wheel with their DD wheelbase i.e. the 9kg round wheel that sells with the Elite. Such a lightweight wheel would have made the lesser torque of the DD1 feel more like a DD2, although perhaps the Podium F1 wheel is lighter than 9kg? The Elite wheel sold with the Elite I think is the lightest wheel that Fanatec sell.
I think its inevitable and Fanatec might do it with a Clubsport version. IMO the software and the power supply is what has made the cost - Fanatec seem to want to get that R&D paid for with these two wheels (and the DD2 is taking the Lions share). I don't know about how much heat the electroniics generate though.
I do wonder how much extra alloy would cost over making moulds and moulding a plastic case. But even some decent cameras now have plastic bodies, and cameras do need to release heat due to the heat generated when shooting video from the sensor. The Sony A7 series initially would not maintain long video shooting in warm days due to the sensor not releasing its heat, and their body was alloy, but software fixed it somehow. I like a camera to have a metal body. And I have supplied to the plastic industry! Give me a metal body please!
But yeh an affordable will happen eventually I hope.The biggest earner though in the Sim / servo motors area might be the motion cockpits. Those would work quite a bit harder than a wheel I reckon. I talked to the Trak Racer owner/designer in Melbourne, and he is working on an affordable system. He was saying there are motors now that can also vibrate as well as rotate. I know nothing about such tech. But I feel there will be some affordable motion cockpits coming out, Trak Racer are certainly going to do that. I'm pulling my cockpit out of its box today, its not only affordable but their new model seems quite stiff, including the wheel stand which is a major improvement over their previous design.
Its quite amazing really that games/sims that cost a few dollars can have developed so much hardware around them and I hope that the innovation and popularity will greatly increase.
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Yes ...
I checked out the Driverhub, but it was pretty costly ... it's shipping cost to Australia was half its sale price! My friends on the Sim thread on Autosport.com recommended that solution to me. However, I felt it might not support Fanatec brakes with the G27 wheel.
I also looked at the Gimx option.
Thanks again LearnersPermit, just to let you know, Gimx are on holiday, and their shipment after the holiday break, would still take 4 weeks! But I found one from someone who stocks them in Slovenia, and he/she has a fast shipment option, I should get it in a few days, although since I bought it on Saturday, that will delay it I guess. Strange thing was eBay said I could put in a discount form and with the rapid shipment, the whole deal cost me less than $Au10. I think I may now get some Fanatec pedals.
No point waiting for the PS4 option DD for the pedals since it may not include a discount on the pedals anyhow. While Podium pedals may come sometime the V3s look good enough for me. When I have all Fanatec, then I hope for the PS4 I won't need to start up the PC. A major appeal for me of a console is that its just push a button and off you go.
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Good luck and hope you enjoy GIMX while you wait for your DD wheel.
The CS Pedals V3 are good I haven’t had any problems with them and I still have the CS V1 pedals in the garage somewhere. I have only had problems with the 2 wheel bases I bought, both the Porsche 911 Turbo S wheel and the Club Sport Wheel V2 both just died all of a sudden and had to send videos before they would replace them, thank god they were within the year of warranty.
It’s going to be a CSW level wheel just as an FYI, still high quality and keeps to costs down a few hundred $/€. Price will be between €1350-1400 I think as it will have more features than the current F1 rim but won’t be priced higher than the Porsche rim.
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Concerning the possible price for the PS4 bundle, and therefor its compulsory F1 style wheel:
I don't know if this wheel is new or not:
ClubSport Steering Wheel Formula Carbon
Model: CSW RFORM CAR
Series: ClubSport
Availability: In Stock
AU$399.90
That just described Formula Carbon wheel has Italian alcantra grips, is OK on weight @ 1200 grams. Hence a mid weight wheel although heavy compared to the wheel LC 13" 970 gram wheel on the PS4 bundle, but that wheel doesn't come standard with I presume an additional weight of a quick release.
The Porsche rim F Inferno mentioned is 50% more in Australia. Hence if not more than the Porsche rim, the $Au price would be no more than $599. Combine that wheel with the DD1, and use the license fees for the PS4 as the discount (on Elite bundles the penalty license fee appears to be around $Au30) then the bundle price would be the DD1 cost in Australia of $Au1,599 plus the $Au599 for the wheel i.e. rounded to $Au2,199. Which is cheaper than the DD2, excluding the warranty benefits of the DD2. Add similar the 5 year warranty cost to match the DD2's 5 year warranty of $Au480 and the price goes up to $Au2,680. Compared to the DD2 price in Australia of $Au2,499. So with the same warranty, the PS4 bundle would be $Au$179 more expensive than the DD2.
The irony with the PS4 is that IMO, Fanatec developed a platform to allow simple across all console compatibility, across both PS4 and Xbox. Hence the Xbox compatibility is based on the wheel, and the PS4 is based on the wheelbase. If Fanatec had of simply allowed a dongle plug in or a software confirmation for all their hubs for PS4 compatibility, then everything would be compatible, and for the Xbox, you'd need a wheel or a methodology to make a wheel Xbox compatible. This strategy or business tactic seemed to be simple and straightforward.
It appears though that certainly at least Sony (so say Fanatec reps here and Xbox looks to be just the same requirement), the console companies want a full solution plug in solution i.e. Wheel and wheelbase bundled together. But ... if that is really the case, then how come pedals are not also included?
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It IS the case. How many times does the CEO of Fanatec have to say it. Lol.. Conspiracy theory madness just flying left and right. The CSL Elite PS4 was initially released as a steering wheel base with wheel without pedals. This doesn't really have to be this complicated.
