Feminism?

Rallywagon
It's also a tad hypocritical to fight for equal rights by demanding special rights.
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What special rights are you referring to? And I'm not asking for an example of the extremist who feels enslaved by her bra straps, I mean the average everyday woman....what do you feel she want's that is special?
 
WhoosierGirl
What special rights are you referring to? And I'm not asking for an example of the extremist who feels enslaved by her bra straps, I mean the average everyday woman....what do you feel she want's that is special?
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I don't think average everyday people really give a damn about an ism. It is the loud mouths of the group I am speaking of, the proclaimed representatives. I don't think many people see Anita Sarkeesian as an "extremist" but she certainly does demand special rights and would love to see thought crimes punished, which all men are automatically guilty of, unless they are gay. And if you need proof of that, just watch her videos on YouTube and make up your own mind. If these aren't the public faces the feminist movement wants, then level headed feminists need to get out there and start destroying her, and her ilks rhetoric.
 
DK
First of all, are you familiar with the "red pill" movement? They call themselves that because they see themselves as "awakened" to what they see as the "true nature" of women, i.e. intellectually immature, emotional and manipulative, which they see as polar opposites to their own ideal of masculinity.
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Is that supposed red pill movement synonymous with mgtow? (or is it just Youtube channel name)

What I got from mgtow videos is that they are males who had bad experience with females and system as whole and refuse to try again, because it cost time and money which can be spent better, which is fair point and I don't really judge them because it is their life and they don't hurt anybody.


DK
It arose out of "pick-up artist" culture, as a way of (for want of better words) keeping women under their control.
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"Pick-up artist" approach can be used to have sex without serious relationship but I wouldn't link it with mgtow and mgtow certainly didn't arose from "pick-up artist" culture.
 
novcze
Is that supposed red pill movement synonymous with mgtow? (or is it just Youtube channel name)

What I got from mgtow videos is that they are males who had bad experience with females and system as whole and refuse to try again, because it cost time and money which can be spent better, which is fair point and I don't really judge them because it is their life and they don't hurt anybody.




"Pick-up artist" approach can be used to have sex without serious relationship but I wouldn't link it with mgtow and mgtow certainly didn't arose from "pick-up artist" culture.
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From what I've seen, there's a lot of animosity between the two movements, with the "red pill" movement using the term "Virgins Going Their Own Way" when referring to MGTOW.
 
DK
From what I've seen, there's a lot of animosity between the two movements, with the "red pill" movement using the term "Virgins Going Their Own Way" when referring to MGTOW.
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... can't keep up with all those movements :lol:
 
Exorcet
This just makes it go from a men's problem to everyone's problem.
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And that is a very good thing. My son will have to register when he is old enough and I believe had I had a daughter she should also....equal rights goes both ways, we can not ask for the good without the bad.
 
WhoosierGirl
And that is a very good thing. My son will have to register when he is old enough and I believe had I had a daughter she should also....equal rights goes both ways, we can not ask for the good without the bad.
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I think that misses the big picture though. Cruze's comments in the article weren't very pleasant to read. I didn't like the implication that women are just too weak for combat and the unspoken implication that all men should be ready to have limbs blown off because someone told them they had to. Expanding the draft to include women sort of addresses the first point, but it does nothing for the second. That makes it hard to celebrate.

If your views on the draft are different than mine, then that is the real issue though. Image a similar proposed solution to slavery in the 1800's. Instead of abolishing it, a new law is proposed that requires an equal number of white and black slaves. That's kind of how I see this law and the draft.
 
Exorcet
I think that misses the big picture though. Cruze's comments in the article weren't very pleasant to read. I didn't like the implication that women are just too weak for combat and the unspoken implication that all men should be ready to have limbs blown off because someone told them they had to. Expanding the draft to include women sort of addresses the first point, but it does nothing for the second. That makes it hard to celebrate.

If your views on the draft are different than mine, then that is the real issue though. Image a similar proposed solution to slavery in the 1800's. Instead of abolishing it, a new law is proposed that requires an equal number of white and black slaves. That's kind of how I see this law and the draft.
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I believe this is what most women thought Cruz's true feelings where and one the reasons women were not drawn to him, Fiorina was just pandering and it failed.

I don't like for a second that my son may one day be drafted but, maybe the leaders of this country would rethink sending our children to war when half of those children were someone's daughter. If they have second thoughts about sending in women they should give the same consideration to men.

It would be so hypocritical of me to want to see a woman become the commander and chief (Not Hillary) and have her possibly draft only young men to fight a war she would sent them to.
 
WhoosierGirl
I don't like for a second that my son may one day be drafted but, maybe the leaders of this country would rethink sending our children to war when half of those children were someone's daughter.
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Wouldn't that mean (following @Exorcet's lead) that if half of slaves were white, you'd be counting on leaders being racist enough to change slavery laws? Essentially having a story that involved changing a law based on equality, so as to inspire a law change based on inequality?
 
LeMansAid
Wouldn't that mean (following @Exorcet's lead) that if half of slaves were white, you'd be counting on leaders being racist enough to change slavery laws? Essentially having a story that involved changing a law based on equality, so as to inspire a law change based on inequality?
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If a law had been passed that made slave owners have to enslave a white for every black slave owned, I'm sure slavery would have ended almost instantly.

Ted Cruz “I could not in good conscience vote to draft our daughters into the military, sending them off to war and forcing them into combat.”

Ted Cruz would have no issue drafting my son but, couldn't in good conscience draft his own daughters....if his daughters were made to register just like my son the chances of the draft being reenacted becomes very slim.
 
WhoosierGirl
If a law had been passed that made slave owners have to enslave a white for every black slave owned, I'm sure slavery would have ended almost instantly.
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Would it be worth it to take that chance? Wouldn't it just have been better to acknowledge slavery for what it is and stop supporting it?

Ted Cruz “I could not in good conscience vote to draft our daughters into the military, sending them off to war and forcing them into combat.”

Ted Cruz would have no issue drafting my son but, couldn't in good conscience draft his own daughters....if his daughters were made to register just like my son the chances of the draft being reenacted becomes very slim.
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Yet there is a vote on whether or not women should be able to be forcibly enlisted. Some people are OK with this. Ted Cruz isn't the only person voting and he's not the person that decides who goes to war.
 
Exorcet
Would it be worth it to take that chance? Wouldn't it just have been better to acknowledge slavery for what it is and stop supporting it?

Yet there is a vote on whether or not women should be able to be forcibly enlisted. Some people are OK with this. Ted Cruz isn't the only person voting and he's not the person that decides who goes to war.
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The north acknowledged slavery for what it was, the south had other ideas and the rest is history. Would another idea have worked, we will never know.

Ted Cruz is not the only person voting....thank you for enlightening me, I had no idea.

Ted Cruz as a members of congress would have to vote on legislation to reinstate the draft, the president would then have to authorize it. Any military effort that would require the reinstating of the draft would surely need a declaration of war, another job for Ted. Ted can be really important to the well being of my son in the years to come.

The reason woman and the draft is even being voted on is because of someone who thinks just like Ted, Duncan Hunter.
 
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I feel all the hate Feminism gets comes from people who don't really care about women's rights. Because it is one thing to say "Feminazis are silly", and another thing to call every feminist a "feminazi" and then adding "go back to the kitchen".

I see it a lot in my country, and you can't say something positive about feminism without people jumping at your throat spewing crap like "you only say those things to get laid" (as if it even worked that way). It's common logic for these people to say things like "WELL IF YOU WANT EQUAL RIGHTS WHY DON'T CALL IT EQUALITY".

In the end, it's the classic example of a movement that is good but ends up being discredited because of some extremely vocal, extremely crazy minority that stains its reputation.
 
Nuff said.
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P.S. This is probably why feminism isn't that popular in Russia, where the military uses conscription. :D
 
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WhoosierGirl
The north acknowledged slavery for what it was, the south had other ideas and the rest is history. Would another idea have worked, we will never know.

Ted Cruz is not the only person voting....thank you for enlightening me, I had no idea.

Ted Cruz as a members of congress would have to vote on legislation to reinstate the draft, the president would then have to authorize it. Any military effort that would require the reinstating of the draft would surely need a declaration of war, another job for Ted. Ted can be really important to the well being of my son in the years to come.

The reason woman and the draft is even being voted on is because of someone who thinks just like Ted, Duncan Hunter.
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I know I stated the obvious, it's because I'm not following your logic. I don't understand why you want to try to use sexism to cure sexism, and I don't understand why you think it will work. If this bill can pass then I don't think it's going to stop the US from deploying a military with drafted women. The people who wouldn't want to see women go to war probably all voted against it already and they failed to stop it.
 
It really bothers me that so many people get this thrill out of the idea of feminists getting their comeuppance in the draft instead of being horrified it exists in the first place. The answer to "it's kinda messed up that politicians can send other people's kids off to die for the nation's interests while theirs stay home" isn't "LOL send the feminazis too".

WhoosierGirl
Ted Cruz “I could not in good conscience vote to draft our daughters into the military, sending them off to war and forcing them into combat.”
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Women being included in the draft isn't going to suddenly make patronizing sexists like Ted Cruz send women into combat roles besides maybe as pilots. They'd be implicitly directed into support roles through unwritten rules and social pressures, while men would still be in the combat roles. Doubling the available draft pool is certainly not going to dissuade warhawk politicians from using their militaries.
 
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Feminism = hatred of men. I get it, you don't want to stay in your traditional gender roles, I am okay with that. But these people are like the "racist" crowd. Any time they don't get their way they think it's discrimination.

Johnnypenso
One can both be against the draft and for women being a part of the draft providing a draft exists. Two separate issues IMO.
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If they want equality, then they can register for the draft just as men have to. And they should be subject to all the same physical standards and whatnot that men are subject to in the military. Otherwise they should only be in non-combatant positions.

Rage Racer
Nuff said.
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P.S. This is probably why feminism isn't that popular in Russia, where the military uses conscription. :D
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What kind of equality did they mean?
 
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I was referring to the way that you reduced all of feminism to nothing more than whining while simultaneously whining yourself about how mean they all are.

If you want to have a real conversation about feminism, I'd suggest that you start by reevaluating your assessment that it all just boils down to a universal hatred of men.

stonesfan129
I'm serious. I wish people would stop using discrimination as a crutch and work for things like I have had to my whole life being a white man.
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If you kept a straight face while proclaiming white men to be the true victims of western society, that's some serious chutzpah.
 
huskeR32
I was referring to the way that you reduced all of feminism to nothing more than whining while simultaneously whining yourself about how mean they all are.

If you want to have a real conversation about feminism, I'd suggest that you start by reevaluating your assessment that it all just boils down to a universal hatred of men.



If you kept a straight face while proclaiming white men to be the true victims of western society, that's some serious chutzpah.
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No. What I questioned is why a lot of people have to use discrimination as a crutch, instead of working hard for something.
 
huskeR32
What is this referring to? I didn't ask any yes/no questions.



Even though white privilege and male privilege are both real things, people who find themselves disadvantaged by them should just shut up and accept it?
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White privilege? Listen up son, I never got a job because of the color of my skin or my gender. I got a good job because I went to school and worked hard. I earned it.

I accept that there are disadvantages but they are easily overcome. Success can be accomplished if you want to succeed.

And how is having racial quotas for minorities in schools and jobs NOT a form of discrimination? Those same privileges should be extended to white males, otherwise it is discriminatory.

So yes, "feminism" to me is just a bunch of people advocating women over everyone else regardless of whether or not they deserve it.
 
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