Feminism?

No, it's not. These "men's rights" groups are usually only interested in one thing - undoing womens' rights. They feel threatened by women and want to return to the days when men were indisputably the driving force in society. How can you call them interested in equality when some of them (the more extreme ones) advocate the repealing of laws around marital rape?

Any sources of groups that currently do this? Either way, they're on the extreme end so judging a group by them is

I wasn't questioning whether men's rights issues should be fought for, I was asking @jake2013guy why he thinks those issues are fought for. Apologies if that wasn't clear.

I see your point which is why I acknowledged it in my initial response.

Yes, I see where he is coming from.

However pointing out that your sole intention is equality is rubbish if you're pushing for male/female rights only. You can't really argue that your sole intention is equality and that's the point i've been getting at. If you're pushing for true equality, you wouldn't ignore issues on the other side.
 
I do, but the point that I am trying to make is that "men's rights groups" advocate something very different to feminism and that @jake2013guy is wrong to suggest that they are arguing for equality the way feminists do. Spend half an hour on any "men's rights" forum and it will become apparent.

You make it sound like it's difficult to find hatred on the internet. :lol:

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Any sources of groups that currently do this?
When you say "do this", what "this" are you specifically referring to? I mentioned three things in that post that you could be referring to.

Whichever one you are referring to, you haven't refuted the point. Get onto any "men's rights" forum - just Google it; you'll get a dozen hits, all valid - and you'll see what I mean. "Men's rights groups" aren't interested in equality.
 
When you say "do this", what "this" are you specifically referring to? I mentioned three things in that post that you could be referring to.

Whichever one you are referring to, you haven't refuted the point. Get onto any "men's rights" forum - just Google it; you'll get a dozen hits, all valid - and you'll see what I mean. "Men's rights groups" aren't interested in equality.
I thought it was obvious but I'll apologise. I meant anything proving your point regarding the overlying category "Undoing women's rights." I'll admit, I don't usually trawl through political forums as they are a hotbed for anything extreme so don't usually bother. Anyway, any true evidence is good evidence.

Also, I requested sources for your claim so telling me to "Google it" isn't really a source. I'm sure my university wouldn't accept that if I had that as my only source.
 
Google it
10/10 argument, so brilliant, so informative and ready to show your information to make your opinion valid.

"Men's rights groups" aren't interested in equality.
MRA never claimed to be about Female and Male being equal is about Males getting rights. It's Feminism that claims to want them to be equality but turns on its head whenever men want equal rights evident by The Red Pill movie.
 
Get onto any "men's rights" forum - just Google it; you'll get a dozen hits, all valid - and you'll see what I mean. "Men's rights groups" aren't interested in equality.

Again, why are you basing your entire argument on the views of a few? And why is it ok for you to do it here and not ok for others to do it?

I'm also not going to google anything, the duty of proof is on you. Granted I'm sure there are some forums that are exactly as you described, but there are probably also feminist versions as well. The only thing it proves is that the internet is full of 🤬 people with even :censored:er "opinions". That's pretty much why this place is the extent of my online social life. :lol:
 
why are you basing your entire argument on the views of a few?
I'm not. Exactly what each individual wants differs, but all of these so-called "men's rights groups" want something other than equality. The problem is in the name, because it suggests that men have certain rights that are under threat, when that isn't the case at all.
 
I'm not. Exactly what each individual wants differs, but all of these so-called "men's rights groups" want something other than equality. The problem is in the name, because it suggests that men have certain rights that are under threat, when that isn't the case at all.
Just to clarify, our problem is not with your opinion. There are extreme views in every opinion and the internet is a great platform for it. However, what we are asking is for some sources where this is the case. I like to see all forms of view whether rational or not. Frustratingly, you have provided none as of yet.
 

Literally the next sentence of your post is doing exactly that!

Exactly what each individual wants differs, but all of these so-called "men's rights groups" want something other than equality.

Good lord, you're approaching Trump level hypocrisy here! :lol:

Seriously dude, I know you're better than this.

it suggests that men have certain rights that are under threat, when that isn't the case at all.

Every day thousands of newborn baby boys have a part of their penis cut off and you say male rights aren't under threat?
 
If you're pushing for true equality, you wouldn't ignore issues on the other side.

I disagree, I'm not sure these issues are all-encompassing, nor that they're an "us vs. them" type thing. If people are fighting for issues where there is (or at least seen to be) existing inequality, then surely that's a pursuit of equality, regardless of how many issues they focus on, or which side they come from?

If say you have a group that focuses on encouraging male participation in traditionally female sports, and another group that focuses on encouraging female participation in traditionally male sports.......if the groups aren't working against each other, then does either one need to also adopt the other's issue, to say they're pursuing equality?

I'm only talking conceptually though. The true motives of the many, many actual groups which exist under the banners of the MRA/feminism movements is another matter altogether.
 
I haven't had a chance to see the documentary myself, but right off the bat I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned that the documentary is named after the same philosophy used by /r/theredpill, a subreddit known for making and popularizing charming posts such as this one. (There's some swears so look out!) There are definitely feminist and feminist-aligned groups that are misinformed and/or aggressive, but I must say I've never seen any group or even any individual actively advocate for the removal of mens rights, let alone on the scale of redpill.

Every day thousands of newborn baby boys have a part of their penis cut off and you say male rights aren't under threat?

Just so you're aware, female genital mutilation is also a reasonably large issue in parts of the world.
 
I disagree, I'm not sure these issues are all-encompassing, nor that they're an "us vs. them" type thing. If people are fighting for issues where there is (or at least seen to be) existing inequality, then surely that's a pursuit of equality, regardless of how many issues they focus on, or which side they come from?

If say you have a group that focuses on encouraging male participation in traditionally female sports, and another group that focuses on encouraging female participation in traditionally male sports.......if the groups aren't working against each other, then does either one need to also adopt the other's issue, to say they're pursuing equality?

I'm only talking conceptually though. The true motives of the many, many actual groups which exist under the banners of the MRA/feminism movements is another matter altogether.
The example you gave is an example as to why I agree with that point to an extent.

However, on Abortion for example, women argue that it is "her body her right" which I do agree with in cases of sexual assault etc where there was no consent to have sex at all or have the child.

There are cases where a man wants the child but the female doesn't (outside sexual assault etc of course) and MRAs want to discuss what would happen in that case which is a largely ignored aspect of the issue. With the 2 sides clashing, surely the example you provided above doesn't really work which is why I agree to an extent.

Yes, male participation in female sports and vice-versa, this works. However, there are areas where the 2 clash and that's where it turns into a "us vs them" as there are clear clashes. Nobody really wants that to happen but it does.


I would have replied to Snorevette's point but Famine covered that well.
 
And treated as taboo and a crime in Western countries that have absolutely no problem with degloving a boy's helmet because of religion or tradition. Which is the point that was being made.

It's true that it's absolutely taboo in Western countries, but just because it's not a Western issue doesn't mean it's not an issue we can address. You're right though, it was a false equivalency.
 
Literally the next sentence of your post is doing exactly that!
Not at all. All of these "men's rights groups" want to limit the influence of feminism. It's the one thing they all have in common. Everything they advocate comes back to that. Different groups will take that to different extents - some will just argue that there shouldn't be employment quotas for women in the workforce; others will argue that there shouldn't be employment quotas for women in the workforce and that laws against marital rape should be repealed.

And treated as taboo and a crime in Western countries that have absolutely no problem with degloving a boy's helmet because of religion or tradition. Which is the point that was being made.
But they're being done for different reasons. FGM removes the clitoris to take the pleasure out of sex; it's believed that by making sex less pleasurable, a woman will be less promiscuous. Circumcision removes the foreskin for hygiene reasons; the extra skin can trap semen, urine or dirt, which can lead to a pretty serious infection.
 
Not at all. All of these "men's rights groups" want to limit the influence of feminism. It's the one thing they all have in common.

You're still doing it!!!! :lol:

Circumcision removes the foreskin for hygiene reasons; the extra skin can trap semen, urine or dirt, which can lead to a pretty serious infection.

That doesn't change the fact it's not a necessary procedure that males more often than not don't have any say in.
 
What rule is this one @Imari?

That's just an example of Prisonermonkeys 101: I've got an opinion, let me cherry pick data to support it.

When you say "do this", what "this" are you specifically referring to? I mentioned three things in that post that you could be referring to.

Whichever one you are referring to, you haven't refuted the point. Get onto any "men's rights" forum - just Google it; you'll get a dozen hits, all valid - and you'll see what I mean. "Men's rights groups" aren't interested in equality.

Here we go. Prisonermonkeys again asserting that something he claims is simply widely available instead of doing the sensible thing and just linking to a source.

Besides, suggesting that "MRA doesn't argue for equality the way feminists do" assumes that all feminists are arguing for equality. Which is exactly the point that led to MRA groups, there are a non-trivial number of extremist feminist groups that will do things like campaign for the removal of a film they disagree with. That sort of oppression is exactly the sort of thing real feminists are against, because it's what was done to women for so long and continues to happen to women today.

The problem is in the name, because it suggests that men have certain rights that are under threat, when that isn't the case at all.

You should probably pay more attention to the world. It's not that there are rights under threat. It's that as we go through and try to remove the systematic biases against women from our society, it's that sometimes we find that there are also systematic biases against men. They're rarer, it's true, but they shouldn't be ignored or accepted any more than the biases against women should.

It's true that it's absolutely taboo in Western countries, but just because it's not a Western issue doesn't mean it's not an issue we can address. You're right though, it was a false equivalency.

But it's something that is attempting to be addressed. There has to be dozens of groups advocating and fundraising against FGM in all countries. It's a big thing, and very few westerners will come out in support of it.

On the other hand, male circumcision is so widespread that few speak out against it. Even in somewhere like the US, where unless I'm reading it wrong the circumcision rate is well over 50% pretty much everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision

But they're being done for different reasons. FGM removes the clitoris to take the pleasure out of sex; it's believed that by making sex less pleasurable, a woman will be less promiscuous. Circumcision removes the foreskin for hygiene reasons; the extra skin can trap semen, urine or dirt, which can lead to a pretty serious infection.

...

You can do better than this. Not only are you misrepresenting FGM as only removal of the clitoris, the health benefits of removing the foreskin are pretty trivial compared to the risks of cutting it off in the first place. We're not in the dark ages any more where people went for months without washing. We have showers and soap, and it's really not that hard to wash the end of your wee fella every so often.
 
No, I'm not. Some groups want to limit it a little bit, and some groups want to limit it a lot. But at the end of the day, they all want to limit it. The only difference is in how much.

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You've posted no actual evidence that "all men's rights groups" want to limit female's rights. All you've said is "google it", which is internet talk for "yeah, I got nothing" and followed that up with continually stating your original claim again and again. Not to mention stating men's rights aren't under attack at all, which is yet another baseless claim that was cut off rather easily (pun semi-intended).
 
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You've posted no actual evidence that "all men's rights groups" want to limit female's rights. All you've said is "google it", which is internet talk for "yeah, I got nothing" and followed that up with continually stating your original claim again and again. Not to mention stating men's rights aren't under attack at all, which is yet another baseless claim that was cut off rather easily (pun semi-intended).
I've asked 3 times from what I counted for any sources and none were provided which irritated me and I see others are irritated too. I'm not expecting anything to be provided and i'm a bit disappointed really.
 
Actually there is a difference.

Mens Rights Activism is clearly about what it says in the name, mens rights, it clear from the get-go that it is all about Mens issues, it has nothing to do with Women.

Feminism is not, especially since a lot of them have the mentality of "if you believe in gener equality than you're a feminist", there are a lot that still say that Feminism isn't just about Womens rights but about equality of the gender even though there is evidence for the contrary.

Unless you have figures to show how many self-described feminists aren't about equality, that doesn't mean much though. Yes, there are some "hardcore feminists" that have a... let's call it "troubling"... view of men in general. But is it every one?

If not, then painting all feminists the same as these fringe folks is no different than suggesting every Baptist is the same as the Westboro people.

How is "feminism" not clear about its purpose? The movement was formed with the aim of bringing women up to the same level of rights men enjoyed at the time.

It's Feminism that claims to want them to be equality but turns on its head whenever men want equal rights evident by The Red Pill movie.

Statements like this are just as ridiculous as @prisonermonkeys' latest I-won't-bother-with-pesky-facts MRA comments. Just a heads-up.
 
You've posted no actual evidence that "all men's rights groups" want to limit female's rights.
Feel free to post evidence refuting my claims any time you like. For someone who insists on the need to provide evidence, you post very little of it. Until such time as you do, I'll continue to hold myself to the same standard that you hold yourself.
 
Feel free to post evidence refuting my claims any time you like. For someone who insists on the need to provide evidence, you post very little of it. Until such time as you do, I'll continue to hold myself to the same standard that you hold yourself.

That's not how it works. That wasn't even a particularly good effort.

Citation still required.
 
If I need to provide sources, everyone needs to.

Your claim. Your responsibility to provide a source. This is really a rather simple concept, one that I would've thought you'd be familiar with by now. It's not up for debate.

Or is this another example of your whole "haha it was all an elaborate joke guys" act?
 
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