Feminism?

[TenEightyOne]

I wish more people on the left would wake up and realize the conservatives in America aren't the enemy... People on the other side of the world executing gay people for nothing more than being gay- they are the enemy.

Although, as I said earlier;

I'm not sure that rape apology and racial discrimination are automatic conservative standpoints though?

People on the other side of the world executing gay people for nothing more than being gay- they are the enemy.

Throwing gay people off buildings, you mean?

Also, am I the only one who suspects a tongue-in-cheek joke from the game title?

 

[VolkswagenX]

If you're going to partake in this kind of discussion then there are probably some important points and ideas beyond the whole "citation required" idea. Here's Milo's twitting feeds, you might start from there and work outwards.

I know how to find his Twitter. I want to know what points you don't agree with and I'd like to know what a culture of rape is.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I know how to find his Twitter.

Of course you do, apologies.

I'd like to know what a culture of rape is.

Wiki, rape culture. Presumably you didn't know how to find that.

I want to know what points you don't agree with

I disagree with Milo's theory that rape culture doesn't exist.

As I said earlier, if you're going to debate feminism then perhaps you should prepare by taking on board some of the seminal theory. So to speak.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I disagree with Milo's theory that rape culture doesn't exist.

As I said earlier, if you're going to debate feminism then perhaps you should prepare by taking on board some of the seminal theory. So to speak.

Disagreeing with the idea of a rape culture doesn't make someone a rape apologist. Milo is probably relying on something silly like the DOJ stats showing a massive decline in rape and sexual violence nationwide from 1994-2010.

Between 1995 and 2010, the rate of completed rape or sexual assault declined from 3.6 per 1,000 females to 1.1 per 1,000.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Disagreeing with the idea of a rape culture doesn't make someone a rape apologist.

The definition suggests otherwise, but there you go. It's not that Milo simply disagrees, he says it's entirely fantasy. Perhaps you agree with him that there is no rape culture in any shade?

 

[VolkswagenX]

Of course you do, apologies.



Wiki, rape culture. Presumably you didn't know how to find that.



I disagree with Milo's theory that rape culture doesn't exist.

As I said earlier, if you're going to debate feminism then perhaps you should prepare by taking on board some of the seminal theory. So to speak.

Why do you disagree with him saying that rape culture doesn't exist? Can you give an example of rape culture?

Yes I've known about the term " rape culture" I have a problem with people who think we live in a society where rape is normalized. I agree with Milo when he says rape culture is a myth.

 

[DK]

Personally I don't think the West has a "rape culture" per se, probably the closest it's come to it in the past 5 years was the mainstream media lamenting the "lost talent" of the Steubenville rapists.

 

[squadops]

We have a rape culture about as much as we have a murder culture. Using the word culture isn't fitting anyway it's more of a buzzword used to stir the pot.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The definition suggests otherwise, but there you go. It's not that Milo simply disagrees, he says it's entirely fantasy. Perhaps you agree with him that there is no rape culture in any shade?

Rape culture in any shade is far too broad of a statement to agree or disagree with. Of course there are isolated elements of society where almost anything can be and is "normalized" but a broad based acceptance of rape and blaming women for being victims is not something that I see. What I see are a few isolated incidents here and there that are sensational mainly because they directly juxtapose the generally accepted principle that rape is an abhorrent crime and is never justified. DOJ stats don't lie. Rape as a crime is on the decline and has been for a long time.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Rape culture in any shade is far too broad of a statement to agree or disagree with. Of course there are isolated elements of society where almost anything can be and is "normalized" but a broad based acceptance of rape and blaming women for being victims is not something that I see. ... DOJ stats don't lie. Rape as a crime is on the decline and has been for a long time.

Sure, it's an incredible success, I don't disagree with that.

What I see are a few isolated incidents here and there that are sensational mainly because they directly juxtapose the generally accepted principle that rape is an abhorrent crime and is never justified.

100,000 men and women being raped per year in the US alone is hardly isolated and many cases aren't "sensationalised". Your own source estimates that only a third of all cases are even reported, is that right?

What I read between your lines is that you might accept that there are areas (not necessarily geographical) where there is a rape culture as defined in feminist theory?

 

[squadops]

Rape culture in the U.S.? Perhaps within slave owners which is over, and for a fact there was a culture of rape in our male prison systems which no longer exists.

There is no rape culture in the U.S. the closest you can come would be looking at rich college brats who are so insecure they feel the only way to get laid is getting a girl drunk or high, kids do not define our culture however.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There is no rape culture in the U.S. the closest you can come would be looking at rich college brats who are so insecure they feel the only way to get laid is getting a girl drunk or high, kids do not define our culture however.

I think you're deliberately misunderstanding. Firstly, kids do create their own culture. That's not to say that it's then representative of a broader culture. You seem to agree but disagree with the existence of any rape culture in the same sentence.

 

[squadops]

No deliberately misunderstanding I can assure you, I posted 2 past instances where one could argue a degree of rape culture that would not represent the nation, the 3rd instance I simply right off as stupid kids with undeserving parents.

There is no need to try and twist what I say, I always say exactly what I mean. If we truly had that culture either our prisons would be overrun or the law would look the other way or be changed. None of that is the case, we champion womanhood and promote manhood.

 

[TenEightyOne]

No deliberately misunderstanding I can assure you, I posted 2 past instances where one could argue a degree of rape culture that would not represent the nation,

Fair enough. Strange position to take though when nobody's suggested that it does represent the nation.

 

[squadops]

I clearly do not believe there is a rape culture of any kind in the U.S. The smallest sub culture would be what, 2 or 3 people? How is that culture?

We used to have a culture of looking the other way just in general however, something we can no longer afford, here I will try to show you my fellow musician 👍

 

[ryzno]

Rape culture in the U.S.? Perhaps within slave owners which is over, and for a fact there was a culture of rape in our male prison systems which no longer exists.

There is no rape culture in the U.S. the closest you can come would be looking at rich college brats who are so insecure they feel the only way to get laid is getting a girl drunk or high, kids do not define our culture however.

Ask the kid that shot up the Church in South Carolina about the rape culture in the male prison system. Unlike a pedo or rapist he wasn't a sex offender. I can give a link but.....

 

[Kent]

Although, as I said earlier;





Throwing gay people off buildings, you mean?

Also, am I the only one who suspects a tongue-in-cheek joke from the game title?

I'm guessing you aren't aware that being gay is a capital offense in many countries around the world.
I could play the BS games you play where I say to go do all the research yourself but I've got a feeling you don't like being treated the way you treat other people so here, let me help you... (this is just a start for your research)

https://www.google.com/search?q=hom...rome..69i57.5560j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm guessing you aren't aware that being gay is a capital offense in many countries around the world.

You guess wrongly. Why therefore wouldn't one find it ironic that a character who self-advertises as a promiscuous homosexual features in a game where he's thrown from a building?

I could play the BS games you play where I say to go do all the research yourself

Which is something I've never said. If you're referring to an earlier poster being unaware of the "rape culture" beliefs of the feminist movement in a feminism debate then I'd draw a parallel; what if in the God thread somebody said "What commandments? Source required". That would surely serve to give other readers an opinion on the depth of that debator's knowledge. You'd call that a BS game, clearly. Okay, we'll differ.

I've got a feeling you don't like being treated the way you treat other people so...

You should avoid responses that rely too much on emotion then

here, let me help you... (this is just a start for your research)

https://www.google.com/search?q=hom...rome..69i57.5560j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The gay racehorse article was interesting, otherwise you're flogging a dead horse I think

 

[squadops]

@ryzno They do have their own codes that is for sure, but I was speaking of something much more than that, I've contracted with state prisons for over 20 years, I've seen the change first hand. It's not the same at all but what I will say is it's appalling to see the outside world cheer for such behavior behind walls

 

[Johnnypenso]

100,000 men and women being raped per year in the US alone is hardly isolated and many cases aren't "sensationalised". Your own source estimates that only a third of all cases are even reported, is that right?

The isolated cases I was referring to wasn't incidents of rape, it was things like fraternaties where small groups of boys think it's ok to drug and rape a woman. When they happen there's a huge blow up in the mainstream media and everyone is justifiably outraged because it shouldn't happen to begin with. Doesn't mean it's widespread or pervasive on campuses or anywhere else.

What I read between your lines is that you might accept that there are areas (not necessarily geographical) where there is a rape culture as defined in feminist theory?

I accept there are areas where there is a [insert almost any behaviour] culture. Doesn't mean it's widespread or nor does it mean the majority of people or even a large minority of people believe it or practice it. I have no problem dealing with problems as they arise on a case by case basis.

 

[Danoff]

Ok, so we have a definition of "rape culture":

In feminist theory, rape culture is a setting in which rape is pervasive and normalized due to societal attitudes about gender and sexuality.[1][2] The sociology of rape culture is studied academically by feminists. There is disagreement over what defines a rape culture and as to whether any given societies meet the criteria to be considered a rape culture.[3]

Behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, trivializing rape, denial of widespread rape, refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by some forms of sexual violence, or some combination of these.[4] The notion of rape culture has been used to describe and explain behavior within social groups, including prison rape, and in conflict areas where war rape is used as psychological warfare. Entire societies have been alleged to be rape cultures.[3][5][6][7][8]

Evidence suggests that rape culture is correlated with other social factors and behaviors. Rape myths, victim blaming, and trivialization of rape have been found to be positively correlated with racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, classism, religious intolerance, and other forms of discrimination.

So let's see, does US society often blame the victim when it comes to rape? Yes. Objectify women? Yes. Trivialize rape (note the prison rape example)? Yes. Deny that it is widespread? Uh... not so sure. Refuse to acknowledge harm? Well if we're talking about NFL cheerleader teachers and teenage boys... yes.

So I'd have to go with a "yes" on this one. But there are some complicated reasons for that.

1) Prison rape is a subject that I find the entire rest of the population pretty much insane on. The notion that someone can get thrown in jail for marijuana, raped by someone with an STD (which may effectively be terminal) and sentenced to a life of either no sex, or severely compromised sex, and possibly to die of AIDS, not to mention that the guy was raped for his "crimes", is not funny.

2) We lump too many things in with rape. An 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend can become a sexual predator for life. A 16 year old boy is "raped" by his hot teacher (basically his dreams came true) and he hi-fives people for the rest of his life when telling the story. And these people get lumped in with someone who violently attacks an innocent person, or abducts a young girl by the same term "rape". I find that moronic.

3) We over-prescribe rape in cases of inebriation. I've seen some of this first hand. Girl gets drunk, boy gets drunk, things happen. Girl has regrets, boy goes off in cuffs. I have literally seen that happen. I won't say he was a friend of mine, but I knew him.

If we could be a little more discriminating about how we use the word rape, and get over the notion that prison rape is funny, we'd already have done a lot to tone down our "rape culture".

 

[ryzno]

I just want to say I never said rape or revenge rape in prison is funny. As @squadops said, rape has dramatically declined in the prison system. But they make exceptions for shall I say VIP inmates?
Now with that said, I do not look down on them for doing such actions to say the Subway guy Jared(however he spells it). Even though hes only been beaten so far.

It's not the same at all but what I will say is it's appalling to see the outside world cheer for such behavior behind walls

How so? I'm sure you know why they do that to rape and pedo inmates. They do it cause its the only pay back that they can do, they do it cause they believe it could have been their mom, sister or daughter or son that had gotten raped. As for the kid in South Carolina(I said NC in my previous post, apologizes) as I said he was not a sex offender. But remember who he killed? Who makes up the majority of inmates? Not trying to be rude but I'm not really surprised about it.

So to sum this up, I believe if they get raped for raping someone they got what they deserve. Its not like the victim asked for it in the first place...

2) We lump too many things in with rape. An 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend can become a sexual predator for life. A 16 year old boy is "raped" by his hot teacher (basically his dreams came true) and he hi-fives people for the rest of his life when telling the story. And these people get lumped in with someone who violently attacks an innocent person, or abducts a young girl by the same term "rape". I find that moronic.

+1000!

Anyways this is getting far away from the subject of Feminism...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Anyways this is getting far away from the subject of Feminism...

Not really, if one's discussing "rape culture" then one is discussing a tenet of 2nd-Wave Feminism.

 

[Dotini]

Not really, if one's discussing "rape culture" then one is discussing a tenet of 2nd-Wave Feminism.

I'm informed the latest development on campus is "trigger warnings".

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm informed the latest development on campus is "trigger warnings".

Sadly it's true. My own opinion is that such movements do nothing to help strike a sensible balance in places of work or study.

 

[squadops]

Educating the girls on campus would be a much sounder solution to name calling and raucous behavior. I can only imagine the ones causing all the trouble no one would think of raping to begin with.

Educate both freshman males and females on the possibilities and consequences of rape and how to avoid it. Way to simple I know.

 

[Dotini]

Sadly it's true. My own opinion is that such movements do nothing to help strike a sensible balance in places of work or study.

My cousin Karl feels the PC culture scales are swinging strongly against the alpha male. He says this means the inevitable replacement of our Western culture by a more assertive, dominant, masculine culture. Currently underway in Europe, here next.

 

[huskeR32]

I can only imagine the ones causing all the trouble no one would think of raping to begin with.

What a truly disgusting thing to say.

 

[squadops]

It is, it's also a joke. Let's face it though, these ladies seem to have some axe to grind that makes so little sense. They wear shirts for instance with slogans such as "grow your own dope, plant a man" that's ok but it's not ok for me to joke back.



At least I'm no Bobby Knight

 

[TenEightyOne]

They wear shirts for instance with slogans such as "grow your own dope, plant a man" that's ok but it's not ok for me to joke back.

Of course it is, why wouldn't it be? Nobody has a right to avoid offence. Where you'd probably be mistaken would be if you simply equated the above joke with

I can only imagine the ones causing all the trouble no one would think of raping to begin with.

There is no need to try and twist what I say, I always say exactly what I mean.

Oh, okay.

None of that is the case, we champion womanhood and promote manhood.

Oh, okay.