FITT - Federation of International Tuners and Test-Drivers
- Thread starter DigitalBaka
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- 968
- Maine
- VooDooChilde333
I kept looking for the "really like a frigging ton" button on that post, but couldn't find it. I settled for the simple "like" one, lol.
I will give you an example of exactly what you just said.
I tune for my personal feel, that's it. I want to feel like whatever I am driving is an extension of my own hands, feet, and mind. In that seasonal race, at Matterhorn, (500pp), I have been using it to grind cash this past week. Now, winning the race, that's not really difficult. So that out of the way, the only real challenge (if you wanted one) would be by how many seconds difference between you and the 2nd place car. To me? I'm grinding money, so I could care less if I won by 2 car lengths or 15 seconds.
The car I use when grinding non-racecar races is always either my Mark- I '66, or my Miura Bertone. I used the Bertone for this one. And camber, as well as other settings, I set for my personal feel and comfort while high speed cornering and dodging others. Now, I know I lost some of my straight speed up/lap time total when I did this, but again, time wasn't on my mind at all. The ride itself was more fun, and felt way smoother.
Now, there is a time for hardball, and I understand that completely, but most of the time I would rather have fun and feel good and lose, then come in first but dislike the entire experience.
Edit:
That quote from the movie White Men Can't Jump just popped in my head, lol. "You would rather look good and lose, then look bad and win" lol
Last edited:
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
When racing the AI you can do pretty much whatever you like to the car because they are not a challenge but if you are racing against real people who may be equal to or greater than your own abilities then you can't afford to give up any advantage. I can manipulate the other settings to reproduce the same effect in terms of balance without running into the problems with reducing the grip threshold, to me that is the most disappointing aspect of driving when the grip just runs out prematurely and forces me to go slower than I think I should be able to. Camber is an easy way to modify the characteristics of your car but in the same way that hitting a tree is an effective way of slowing down there are consequences to consider before proceeding.
- 968
- Maine
- VooDooChilde333
Comparing camber to hitting a tree to stop may be a little harsh, but I do understand what you mean behind it.
Currently I play and tune for 80%fun/20%challenge. When that fun% begins to drop lower then 60%, is when the adult in me is going to tell myself to stop playing.
I have ruined other games by getting too 'nuclear' with how I played them, and lost the key element of enjoyment in doing so. Not going to happen again.
I do like to compete online, and I know what you mean. But even there, I will always put 'sticking to the style that makes me smile while I am driving' ahead of my need to come in first place. It's just how I look at it is all.
Now, if I was allowed to quit my job and get PAID to play this game on the other hand, that is when everything would change drastically. But I don't see that happening in my near future, lol.
Currently I play and tune for 80%fun/20%challenge. When that fun% begins to drop lower then 60%, is when the adult in me is going to tell myself to stop playing.
I have ruined other games by getting too 'nuclear' with how I played them, and lost the key element of enjoyment in doing so. Not going to happen again.
I do like to compete online, and I know what you mean. But even there, I will always put 'sticking to the style that makes me smile while I am driving' ahead of my need to come in first place. It's just how I look at it is all.
Now, if I was allowed to quit my job and get PAID to play this game on the other hand, that is when everything would change drastically. But I don't see that happening in my near future, lol.
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
I don't think I can truly see things from your point of view, obviously I like a car to drive well and tune to meet that criteria but I don't find it fun losing a car length to the guy in front through every corner because I'm relying on a broken mechanic to achieve this feel. I know there are better ways to achieve the same characteristics using other settings so why would I compromise? I enjoy finding the solutions, I know I can slap on some camber and dramatically change my cars character but I also know that it will be permanently flawed because of it and to me that is not a solution. Its a nip of whiskey on a cold day, makes you feel warm for a moment but actually lowers your overall temperature
- 968
- Maine
- VooDooChilde333
It's just my temperament overall that is different then when I was younger. I am in my 30's, not like I am ancient lol, I am just very different now then when I was younger.
I have seen a lot of crap that people shouldn't see, and lived through some things and events that people are better off if they never go through. But I am not bitter about any of it at all. It's just things don't get me mad, angry, or even that "wtf!" people yell at screens when something doesn't go right. It's just not me anymore to get so emotional about any activity/sport that actual anger spawns from it.
Not saying I don't get agitated at times, lol, but that car lengths scenario you mentioned would probably lead to me saying,"dammit" while laughing a bit. Then questioning what did I do wrong, and he do right, and all that. I mean, some things at times do anger me a little bit, but that's when I immediately back off from it until I get back my composure.
I like my cars rear end to slide a bit more then most people, I like having a certain bit of looseness to it. I don't do drastic things if that's what you think. Yeah I mess with camber, not on every build, but if I get a better feel when testing then I will run with it. Your responses are very passionate, lol, makes me think you think I'm doing crazy things like camber 4.0 or something.(or whatever). No, simple slight adjustments, whatever makes a more consistent feel, that's all.
I get where your coming from, and I don't find any fault in it at all. I think your tuning is great and whatever methodology you use obviously works for you, so stick with it.
Peace^^
I have seen a lot of crap that people shouldn't see, and lived through some things and events that people are better off if they never go through. But I am not bitter about any of it at all. It's just things don't get me mad, angry, or even that "wtf!" people yell at screens when something doesn't go right. It's just not me anymore to get so emotional about any activity/sport that actual anger spawns from it.
Not saying I don't get agitated at times, lol, but that car lengths scenario you mentioned would probably lead to me saying,"dammit" while laughing a bit. Then questioning what did I do wrong, and he do right, and all that. I mean, some things at times do anger me a little bit, but that's when I immediately back off from it until I get back my composure.
I like my cars rear end to slide a bit more then most people, I like having a certain bit of looseness to it. I don't do drastic things if that's what you think. Yeah I mess with camber, not on every build, but if I get a better feel when testing then I will run with it. Your responses are very passionate, lol, makes me think you think I'm doing crazy things like camber 4.0 or something.(or whatever). No, simple slight adjustments, whatever makes a more consistent feel, that's all.
I get where your coming from, and I don't find any fault in it at all. I think your tuning is great and whatever methodology you use obviously works for you, so stick with it.
Peace^^
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
I fear you misjudge where I'm coming from, this isn't the words of some hot headed, hyper competitive youth
These are the words of experience, I know the solutions found in camber can be achieved in other ways without the otherwise unavoidable grip penalty so why use it?In the situations I described before I wasn't talking about camber being the difference between driver error, I was talking about cornering flawlessly and still coming out at a disadvantage to the equally skilled guy in front whos not running camber because that's how the game works. Anything above 1.0 degrees is a fairly serious handicap even on race tyres in my experience, below that the loss is negligible but still present. There are situations where a tiny bit of camber will help address the balance of a tricky car but they are rare and it should be right at the bottom of the check list in terms of where you look for a solution. I wish it was a better option than it is but it might as well not be there, just tempts people into thinking it'll help.
This isn't personal, I've had this same conversation dozens of times before so forgive me if I'm not at my most polite, if you want to continue using it then by all means go ahead but do so knowing that it could be holding you back. If your struggling to find that last half a second on a seasonal hot lap or your buddy seems to pull a gap every race no matter how hard you try then just keep in mind that it could well be the camber that's letting you down 👍
- 968
- Maine
- VooDooChilde333
.03 and .07 are my 2 settings I use when I try it. Back, forth, both and versa. I used to use higher but found I got the same effect at .07 as I did at 1.5, but without the added diversity elsewhere.
And like I said before, not every tune. I usually find what I'm looking for once I get the toe where I want it.
And as far as revisiting my old tunes to update them with what I know now compared to what I knew way back when, I am doing so 1 at a time as I need them. And your correct that on the ones I have updated I have lowered or brought to 0.0 on them.
And as far as I was reading, I didn't see hostility in any of your words, lol. Like I mentioned, you seemed passionate, but that's all I took it as, so don't worry.
And like I said before, not every tune. I usually find what I'm looking for once I get the toe where I want it.
And as far as revisiting my old tunes to update them with what I know now compared to what I knew way back when, I am doing so 1 at a time as I need them. And your correct that on the ones I have updated I have lowered or brought to 0.0 on them.
And as far as I was reading, I didn't see hostility in any of your words, lol. Like I mentioned, you seemed passionate, but that's all I took it as, so don't worry.
Pete05
Premium
- 7,089
- Melbourne, Australia
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
You have an event lined up too don't you? Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that @DaBomm4 had a list of FITT events that were ready for running. I can't remember if that dictates an order but I guess that is what thread is for. It might be a good idea to work out an order for all the events that are ready to go?WOW!
Pete05
Premium
- 7,089
- Melbourne, Australia
Exactly my thoughts Shaun.
I knew there was a list floating around here somewhere of ideas that people had submitted but wasn't sure if that list doubled as an order for events to run in.
This is where we all need to run a poll/survey to see if an idea has enough interest & traction to get up and running.
No point holding an event if there's minimal interest from people that want to take part.
- 1,337
- Wisconsin
- DaBomm4
- DaBomm16
As for my list, I just grabbed all the ideas I was aware of or informed of and threw it in a list, if I were to organize it for how ready each one is, I should really move my own to the bottom because I should spend more time on it for it to be ready. But I also have a lot of things to spend time on, school, work, planning for a wedding...
And I will work on updating that thread tomorrow when I have something better than my phone to work with.
And I will work on updating that thread tomorrow when I have something better than my phone to work with.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Time for a little dumpster diving.
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Looks a lot smaller than I would have imaginedTime for a little dumpster diving.
- 4,017
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
The current FITT Challenge is going well but is not without it's issues. Something always seems to come up in every challenge no matter how well planned and thought out it was. This one is no exception as there have been two issues. I have not been posting much and up until recently have avoided posting in the thread. First issue was handled as expected, the hosts made a decision and stuck to it. The most recent however, is one that seems to come up every once in awhile and needs to be addressed. We have discussed it several times before but have yet to come up with a solution. So I would like to propose three things which I feel may benefit the community overall.
Sometimes, a participant will question a testers results, as we have recently seen. I have always taken the stance of defending the tester since they are hard to come by, and harder to keep coming back. But is that the right thing to do? Rule 13 is in place to protect the tester from having their results questioned unless there is something clearly amiss. But, the questioner also needs to be protected and is often attacked/jumped for asking a question concerning those results. Often, but not always, it is a case of being misunderstood, but since type has no tone it is hard sometimes to tell. So please here me out, I'm not sure this is the best solution but at least it is an attempt. If it is not well received, then I shall crawl back into the shadows and keep quiet, but will know that I did my part in trying. So here are my three suggestions:
1. We need to do a better job of displaying, upholding, and enforcing the rules. The basic rules are normally posted somewhere in the OP but how many people actually stop and read them? I feel it would be best to give them their own post, and clearly display Rule 13 and a link to the complete Rules:
13) Driver feedback, both positive and negative, is strongly encouraged and should be done in a constructive manner. Not all tunes work well for every driver. Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated and may result in penalties or disqualification at the discretion of the organizer(s) and also may be subject to sanction by GTPlanet Moderating Staff. Treat all participants and spectators in a respectful manner so that everyone may enjoy the event.
Should an issue arise (and they usually do), simply instructing to first read the rules is a good place to start. Being in the OP, every participant would have no excuse not to read them. Also, there needs to be more respect for the host(s) as it is not as easy (or as hard) as it looks but is time consuming to a point. If they have made up the rules, they should be followed and not be questioned or asked to change them to suit another's desire. Just my thought......anyway
2. in the same post after the rules, should read a statement about what to do should an issue arise or if you feel there is something wrong with test results or a posted tune. The best solution is using the feature GtPlanet gave us, PM. It could read something like this:
In the event that a participant feels there is a discrepency with a testers results or any other issue, the first thing that should be done before making a public statement is to PM the host. Explain your concern and be sure to have the tester/tuner in question involved in the conversation. This should eliminate attacks and clear things up (if possible) without needless pages of people attacking each other or posting what may be deemed by another as an attack. When a resolution is found, it will be up to the host as to whether or not to go public with the concern or if the public should help remedy the situation. Should you have an issue and post it before conversing with the host(s) or the other participant in question, you except responsability for the outcome and may or may not get help from the host(s).
May need to be worded better, but you get the idea. We need to get out in front and put a warning label in the OP. This may help to eliminate and possible avoid issues before they get out of hand.
3. (and this is the big one) We need to make an attempt to introduce a new way of using the DC Score. A simply yet defined formula needs to be created. Several have thought about coming up with new ways of doing it, but none have even been tried. So I have one that may (or may not) work, but would need to be tried to find out. I have an idea for a challenge but not the time to run it. Otherwise I would give it a test drive myself. Three parts, each should help explain the score (and tune) better, and still give the tester some freedom to rate the tune as they wish.
a. Comfort/Easy of learning.
Some tunes are harder to get used to before you can get the most out of, others you can just jump in go. So this scale should grade each, and every other in between:
Should be self explanatory.
Some tunes are more fun for a tester than others even if they are not the fastest. Some fast tunes are not as exciting for some and can be found safe. Up to the tester as to how they grade this, and it would be like the current scale. Completely subjective. Again, anything 4 and under needs explaining, but the tester would be given free reign as it is what Driver's Choice is all about.
Based on this scale, tunes should be better explained and there scores easier to understand. This would hopefully help to avoid questions from others. 30 points would also likely be harder to achieve than a 10 in the current system. Might also help to spread the scores out which may not be a good thing but the tuners are getting better so the would likely stay close anyway.
Any thoughts, positive or negative appreciated.
Bowtie
Sometimes, a participant will question a testers results, as we have recently seen. I have always taken the stance of defending the tester since they are hard to come by, and harder to keep coming back. But is that the right thing to do? Rule 13 is in place to protect the tester from having their results questioned unless there is something clearly amiss. But, the questioner also needs to be protected and is often attacked/jumped for asking a question concerning those results. Often, but not always, it is a case of being misunderstood, but since type has no tone it is hard sometimes to tell. So please here me out, I'm not sure this is the best solution but at least it is an attempt. If it is not well received, then I shall crawl back into the shadows and keep quiet, but will know that I did my part in trying. So here are my three suggestions:
1. We need to do a better job of displaying, upholding, and enforcing the rules. The basic rules are normally posted somewhere in the OP but how many people actually stop and read them? I feel it would be best to give them their own post, and clearly display Rule 13 and a link to the complete Rules:
13) Driver feedback, both positive and negative, is strongly encouraged and should be done in a constructive manner. Not all tunes work well for every driver. Personal attacks WILL NOT be tolerated and may result in penalties or disqualification at the discretion of the organizer(s) and also may be subject to sanction by GTPlanet Moderating Staff. Treat all participants and spectators in a respectful manner so that everyone may enjoy the event.
Should an issue arise (and they usually do), simply instructing to first read the rules is a good place to start. Being in the OP, every participant would have no excuse not to read them. Also, there needs to be more respect for the host(s) as it is not as easy (or as hard) as it looks but is time consuming to a point. If they have made up the rules, they should be followed and not be questioned or asked to change them to suit another's desire. Just my thought......anyway
2. in the same post after the rules, should read a statement about what to do should an issue arise or if you feel there is something wrong with test results or a posted tune. The best solution is using the feature GtPlanet gave us, PM. It could read something like this:
In the event that a participant feels there is a discrepency with a testers results or any other issue, the first thing that should be done before making a public statement is to PM the host. Explain your concern and be sure to have the tester/tuner in question involved in the conversation. This should eliminate attacks and clear things up (if possible) without needless pages of people attacking each other or posting what may be deemed by another as an attack. When a resolution is found, it will be up to the host as to whether or not to go public with the concern or if the public should help remedy the situation. Should you have an issue and post it before conversing with the host(s) or the other participant in question, you except responsability for the outcome and may or may not get help from the host(s).
May need to be worded better, but you get the idea. We need to get out in front and put a warning label in the OP. This may help to eliminate and possible avoid issues before they get out of hand.
3. (and this is the big one) We need to make an attempt to introduce a new way of using the DC Score. A simply yet defined formula needs to be created. Several have thought about coming up with new ways of doing it, but none have even been tried. So I have one that may (or may not) work, but would need to be tried to find out. I have an idea for a challenge but not the time to run it. Otherwise I would give it a test drive myself. Three parts, each should help explain the score (and tune) better, and still give the tester some freedom to rate the tune as they wish.
a. Comfort/Easy of learning.
Some tunes are harder to get used to before you can get the most out of, others you can just jump in go. So this scale should grade each, and every other in between:
- 9-10 : Great tune, just jump in and go. easy to learn and get comfortable driving.
- 7-8 : Good tune, but took a few laps to get a grip on what it wanted.
- 5-6 : Not a bad tune, but I struggled a little with it. Took too many laps to get used to.
- 4 and under : Was never really able to settled in to this one and get comfortable.
- For anything 4 and under, please be specific and/or give suggestions as to what you think might help the tune based on testing the others in the challenge
Should be self explanatory.
- 9-10 : Handling spot on, easy to be consistent and turn fast laps or to push harder
- 7-8 : Good handling but needs minor improvement to be top rate. Consistency not bad
- 5-6 : Some handling issues, not easy to be consistent
- 4 and under : Not good, difficult to find consistency is at all
- For anything 4 and under, please be specific and/or give suggestions as to what you think might help the tune based on testing the others in the challenge
Some tunes are more fun for a tester than others even if they are not the fastest. Some fast tunes are not as exciting for some and can be found safe. Up to the tester as to how they grade this, and it would be like the current scale. Completely subjective. Again, anything 4 and under needs explaining, but the tester would be given free reign as it is what Driver's Choice is all about.
Based on this scale, tunes should be better explained and there scores easier to understand. This would hopefully help to avoid questions from others. 30 points would also likely be harder to achieve than a 10 in the current system. Might also help to spread the scores out which may not be a good thing but the tuners are getting better so the would likely stay close anyway.
Any thoughts, positive or negative appreciated.
Bowtie
- 491
- United States
Points one and 2 I totally agree with and you have my total support. (no surprise there) Point 3, I like the approach, however, I don't think it will really change anything. I can't believe this DC score thing is still going! Maybe that READ THE RULES point will help. @shaunm80's events he spells out the DC score very well. I don't know why its so hard to understand DC is a tester score....based on their likes and thoughts. (hence the use of the word SUBJECTIVE that @shaunm80 always includes) Tuners...(those not getting this idea)..this tester will spell it out for you.....J-u-s-t b-e-c-a-u-s-e y-o-u-r c-a-r i-s f-a-s-t....I d-o-n'-t h-a-v-e t-o l-i-k-e i-t !!! Time is for FAST.....DC is for LIKE.
Thorin Cain
Premium
- 2,298
- Glasgow
- THORIN-RAYVEN
I know I'm not the most active person when it comes to FITT events, but I do try to keep up a little at least. This is something which has needed to be addressed for quite some time and has spoiled what would otherwise be some pretty cool and otherwise well run events in the past.
Personally I've always been of the opinion that the way DC works is fine as is. If someone likes something better than something else, why the need is felt to make them justify their opinion is a little beyond me, we do all have free choice do we not!?
I also know that alternative solutions have been suggested before ( I think @Otaliema tried one out before
), to me this one looks like it is most definitely worth a try in a future event. Categorizing it that way could work well 👍As for making sure that a proper line of conduct for any complaints/appeals is in place and made clear in the OP. That for me is a no-brainer. The PM should be how these things are handled, there's no need for a potential insignificant matter to take up space in the challenge threads.
Just my 2p
- 371
- California
- TheInfamousJEW69
I also completely agree with points 1&2 @Bowtie-muscle and I even like the 3rd point, my only question is would we take A, B, & C and then average the score for a final DC score? Or is it 3 seperate scores?
Personally I believe how DC is now is ok, as it is a subjective score decided by tester and nothing else... If the tester decides to give their highest DC to the fastest that's ok, and if not that should be ok too...
It is a problem if someone has their feelings hurt for bringing up an issue they may have, but, as it's already been said, thus should be a private matter between the complainant and the host(s) as it is very distracting on the main thread...
Just my 2 cents...
Personally I believe how DC is now is ok, as it is a subjective score decided by tester and nothing else... If the tester decides to give their highest DC to the fastest that's ok, and if not that should be ok too...
It is a problem if someone has their feelings hurt for bringing up an issue they may have, but, as it's already been said, thus should be a private matter between the complainant and the host(s) as it is very distracting on the main thread...
Just my 2 cents...
Pete05
Premium
- 7,089
- Melbourne, Australia
First of all, thanks @Bowtie-muscle for giving this some thought and opening a dialogue to try and resolve any problems.
I've only been around here for just over 2 years but in that time I've enjoyed following the FITT events and have even hosted one myself. I wanted to participate in the current event but haven't been able to for my own personal reasons. Having said that, I've still followed what's been happening. That almost came to an end the other day when the whinging started so I'm all for any disagreements or grievances to take place as a PM.
Points 1 & 2 need to be respected and taken as seriously as the GTPlanet AUP. Any making of waves or disruptive behavior should earn the transgressor(s) a free ticket to the exit and a reminder to have a think about it.
The only problem I have with any form of DC is potential sabotage by a tester due to a personal issue with one of the tuners.
When a DC is given that is so far below the average DC for that particular tune, questions have to be raised. This may not be apparent until all testers have submitted their results towards the end of the event but it needs to be stomped on.
Take a look back at the F3 challenge I ran at Brands Hatch and see if you can uncover what I'm referring to. PM me about it if you like.
It's because of this, I fear a move from the current DC potential of up to 10 points to Bowtie's suggestion of 3 different components and 30 points unless those 3 components are averaged as suggested by @TheInfamousJEW6
That's my five cents*
*We don't have 2 cent pieces in Australia anymore
I've only been around here for just over 2 years but in that time I've enjoyed following the FITT events and have even hosted one myself. I wanted to participate in the current event but haven't been able to for my own personal reasons. Having said that, I've still followed what's been happening. That almost came to an end the other day when the whinging started so I'm all for any disagreements or grievances to take place as a PM.
Points 1 & 2 need to be respected and taken as seriously as the GTPlanet AUP. Any making of waves or disruptive behavior should earn the transgressor(s) a free ticket to the exit and a reminder to have a think about it.
The only problem I have with any form of DC is potential sabotage by a tester due to a personal issue with one of the tuners.
When a DC is given that is so far below the average DC for that particular tune, questions have to be raised. This may not be apparent until all testers have submitted their results towards the end of the event but it needs to be stomped on.
Take a look back at the F3 challenge I ran at Brands Hatch and see if you can uncover what I'm referring to. PM me about it if you like.
It's because of this, I fear a move from the current DC potential of up to 10 points to Bowtie's suggestion of 3 different components and 30 points unless those 3 components are averaged as suggested by @TheInfamousJEW6
That's my five cents*
*We don't have 2 cent pieces in Australia anymore
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
With regards to your first two points about rule 13 and issues arising, I totally agree with you on those points. We as hosts are their to control events and stop personal attacks on testers and tuners a like hence why myself and @Otaliema have consistently tried to get people to PM us if they have an issue. We (as hosts or Event sponsors in FITT language) also have a responsibility to PM people rather than post in the thread which we are occasionally guilty of not doing so yeah. There is learning for everyone in FITT events.
As for your third point about DC. Like you, and others, have stated, this has been discussed before and changes have been mooted but nothing was changed because it was felt that the old way was still working. Speaking personally, the old way (original way?) of scoring DC is far too subjective. Yes, subjectivity must come into the DC but I would love to have some guidelines on what my DC is based on. I do like your idea of changing the scoring so you have three sections (of 10 points each) which incorporates tune adaptability, handling and consistency and fun factor (this final factor is the subjective section rightly placed). If this could be trials at the next few FITT events, I think it would answer the question of whether or not it works and I would like to see it tested ASAP.
I am in full support of these changes and are more than happy to help bring these into fruition and help with testing for the next FITT events too.
Now, on a more personal level and I apologise if this raises any previous issues but I feel this is important for the success of FITT.
FITT is based around tuners and testers working together to build and test tunes in a fun and friendly environment. My experience of a tuner is spot on with this statement and I have loved every minute of that aspect. Testing however has bee a different kettle of fish. Mine and @Otaliema's event has had problems with my testing being an issue and unfortunately for me, this isn't the first time this has come about. It has happened on two other occasions. Now, I do my best with my funny captain slow reasons and state I am using a 1 million year old DS3 pad to lighten the mood prior to my reviews but I do feel that my testing is not as good as others due to the amount of questions I have raised about one thing or another. I keep coming back and testing though because I want FITT to succeed and I want to be a part of its success.
I will continue to tune for FITT well into the future and testing is something I do when I have the time, or it is my own event and I want to do testing for the fun of it, but being called to question or comments raised about my testing results make this element maddening for me. I am made of tough stuff though and I am able to let these things go once I have had a PM with good friends and have cleared my head. It is the comments and questioning that I personally believe factors into the lack of testers that we have in FITT currently and however much the hosts say that testing is fun, you will love it!, well. it isn't always true. but it should be true and I aspire to get as many people involved in testing as possible as it has a lot of amazing benefits and learning opportunities to improve our own work.
My personal feelings are what makes me think that change is needed and @Bowtie-muscle's suggestions are worth investigating and implementing into FITT events.
Sorry for the long winded style I have written in and I hope that it all makes sense. If not, PM me and I will clarify any point that doesn't make sense to you.
Thank you
Shaun.
- 4,017
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
First, I have always appreciated your testing, and the fact that your times might be slower means nothing. You are not the only tester who has ever been slower than some of the others. I'm amazed that @biffa3 and @Lionheart2113 are generally faster than I am when they are old school d-pad x button masters and I use stick and triggers. Variety of driving skill levels and styles is what makes it fun.
Second, my point it to try and have more clarity. Myself included, we generally get on someone for raising a question or concern when in fact that person is also protected under rule 13. If they took it to PM, most can be avoided. Rules questions about "why can't I use this part?" or "why does it have to be done this way, why not that way?" should also apply. But they get overlooked quicker. The host sets the rules, as stated, and that should be final unless a clear and valid issue arises such as the trans issue during my British Invasion Challenge. Questioning a testers skill or lap times, unless something seriously fishy appears, should not be tolerated. But bashing the one raising the question should likewise be tolerated no less.
Third, if only parts 1 and 2 get used moving forward, then great. Part 3 and the change of DC scoring is in an attempt for clarity. A tune may score high on parts a and b but be lifeless and boring (i've built tunes that scored low for being safe/dull. That's fine and is the testers right)and be low for part c. Might raise fewer questions. But, a tune scoring low on a and b might still be a blast to drive (see @Lionheart2113 MR2 at Deep Forest. I struggled getting a clean lap with that car but loved every lap and smiled the whole time. He got a high score even though I struggled, it was too much fun to score low). This should give the tester more room to be subjective in their view of the tune. And being subjective, no one should question the score of they can see how it did in the other two. Hope that makes sense. The old way still works but is sometimes subject to unnecessary questioning.
Finally, the three scores would be added and not averaged. More work for the tester, sure, but helps review the tune and could help with explaining their view of the tune easier. Might not actually work, but it is worth testing just to see. Unless someone else has another idea that is. We have discussed it but have never really come up with an alternative or tried one. All I'm trying say with that. Perhaps it's time, perhaps not, but that is the point of my post.
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
Maybe just asking tester to do all different DC scoring and giving feedback on all aspects of different DC and then only average of current tester different DC eras is used on compo.
7.0 - hard to learn
8.0 - nice balance
9.0 - super fast one lap wonder
= average 8.0 to compo lists.
7.0 - hard to learn
8.0 - nice balance
9.0 - super fast one lap wonder
= average 8.0 to compo lists.
- 4,017
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
Not sure this link will work since I'm on my phone but https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...al-results-are-in.306740/page-17#post-9604318 you can see my original review. New would be something like:
Adaptability - 6.5
Not difficult to learn but not easy either. Not sure I got totally comfortable as each lap could be different.
Handling/consistency - 7
Handling a little off, if you could hit your marks you were ok but not if you missed. Suspension could use some work as well as LSD. Maybe more downforce too.
Fun Factor - 7
Too wildly inconsistent.
Total - 20.5
You really need to read the original. My FITT Pro Spec review of my last place tune.
Adaptability - 6.5
Not difficult to learn but not easy either. Not sure I got totally comfortable as each lap could be different.
Handling/consistency - 7
Handling a little off, if you could hit your marks you were ok but not if you missed. Suspension could use some work as well as LSD. Maybe more downforce too.
Fun Factor - 7
Too wildly inconsistent.
Total - 20.5
You really need to read the original. My FITT Pro Spec review of my last place tune.
Thorin Cain
Premium
- 2,298
- Glasgow
- THORIN-RAYVEN
- 4,017
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
The tuner, tester and host did all have a private conversation concerning the review.
Thorin Cain
Premium
- 2,298
- Glasgow
- THORIN-RAYVEN
BrilliantThe tuner, tester and host did all have a private conversation concerning the review.
👍
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
The DC scale is half redundant, when was the last time you saw someone get below a 5? What is the point of 0-5 if even god awful tunes get a "DC 6 - It kept spinning round and catching fire without any provocation and I had to complete the lap on foot but very well done for trying". no one
