- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
FITT - Federation of International Tuners and Test-Drivers
- Thread starter DigitalBaka
- 2,660 comments
- 167,307 views
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
Yes.. yes you are..I've received scores lower than 5. I must be unique!
Just kidding. but seriously, a tune less than 5 in DC? Did you annoy someone? 
- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
Think the lowest i've given is a 5, and that was for a 'tune' which had stock suspension and stock gearbox.
My personal feelings are if a tuner has spent an amount of time on a car, and you tuners usually spend many more hours tuning than I do testing, the least you are getting from me is a 5. I've driven most cars in the game so know an improvement over stock when I drive one, which is enough to get you on the board.
All of the above from @Bowtie-muscle sounds good. Too comlicated though and you'll not entice testers. Any questions I have regarding lap times are mainly to clarify my own testing, as I did via PM at the start of this contest.
- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
I can agree with @biffa3 on tuners taking the time to produce a tune and that being worth something. I've had my thoughts on DC typed for a day now so I'll just post it...
I think that the current system is pretty decent for what these events are supposed to be about...a wide variety of tuners putting their skills to the test in all sorts of cars at different tracks. Throw those tunes to testers with all sorts of abilities and see what they can do with them and how much they are liked. It's not without its flaws, but at the end of the day it is mostly about fun. When you break it down to its simplest form and give it a little bit of thought, this is what you get.
Tuners get to work on the car based on their driving style logging countless laps/miles in that car. Making adjustments that feel more comfortable to them. Testers get roughly 10-15 laps after hopping into that car not knowing what to expect and then try to learn the car and adapt to fit. This adaptation sometimes leads to the tester driving the car in a manor that they are not really accustomed to, but it is based on what the car tells them. Some testers can do this while others might have a harder time. So that can lead to a difference of opinion between the tuner and tester on how the car feels.
Some tuners will perceive that they might have to alter from their driving style to suit the testers. I see where they are coming from, but I don't agree that "tuning it down" needs to be done. I would say tune it in a way that makes you proud of it. Anything else seems compromised and not right. Like my golf game...just grip it and rip it, letting the ball fall where it does; I think tunes should be about making the tuner happy, not the other way around.
In the case that is mentioned, I think it's making a mountain out of a mole hill. A PM would have been better but live, learn, and move on which we've done. We are taking about a hard to handle car at a track that can hurt you. After testing here, I will be the first in line putting my hand up saying that I am not driving the car as the tuner has intended and my lap times are not as quick as the tuners. I know this...how? Because of the hours spent driving others' cars with me using a controller, I can gauge what the tuner might have been going towards. But there again, I realize this and judge or sometimes apologize accordingly. My DC score has and will always be how that tune drives and feels to me with me at the controls. Some are as loose as you like and need ice skates instead of tires, but can put down a fast lap while safe/comfortable cars aren't as quick but are rock solid lap after lap.
Different testers like different styles, that's why it has always been important to have as many testers as possible. If we make the judging harder or more time consuming with scoring in segments or something along those lines, I can see that detouring testers, especially those who are new or already on the fence about testing. And in the case like the Old School Class, or a few other tough tracks from the past, testing/reviews are difficult as is.
I am more than happy with the current scoring and the wide variety of tracks, but that's not to say that I would be opposed to change.
I think that the current system is pretty decent for what these events are supposed to be about...a wide variety of tuners putting their skills to the test in all sorts of cars at different tracks. Throw those tunes to testers with all sorts of abilities and see what they can do with them and how much they are liked. It's not without its flaws, but at the end of the day it is mostly about fun. When you break it down to its simplest form and give it a little bit of thought, this is what you get.
Tuners get to work on the car based on their driving style logging countless laps/miles in that car. Making adjustments that feel more comfortable to them. Testers get roughly 10-15 laps after hopping into that car not knowing what to expect and then try to learn the car and adapt to fit. This adaptation sometimes leads to the tester driving the car in a manor that they are not really accustomed to, but it is based on what the car tells them. Some testers can do this while others might have a harder time. So that can lead to a difference of opinion between the tuner and tester on how the car feels.
Some tuners will perceive that they might have to alter from their driving style to suit the testers. I see where they are coming from, but I don't agree that "tuning it down" needs to be done. I would say tune it in a way that makes you proud of it. Anything else seems compromised and not right. Like my golf game...just grip it and rip it, letting the ball fall where it does; I think tunes should be about making the tuner happy, not the other way around.
In the case that is mentioned, I think it's making a mountain out of a mole hill. A PM would have been better but live, learn, and move on which we've done. We are taking about a hard to handle car at a track that can hurt you. After testing here, I will be the first in line putting my hand up saying that I am not driving the car as the tuner has intended and my lap times are not as quick as the tuners. I know this...how? Because of the hours spent driving others' cars with me using a controller, I can gauge what the tuner might have been going towards. But there again, I realize this and judge or sometimes apologize accordingly. My DC score has and will always be how that tune drives and feels to me with me at the controls. Some are as loose as you like and need ice skates instead of tires, but can put down a fast lap while safe/comfortable cars aren't as quick but are rock solid lap after lap.
Different testers like different styles, that's why it has always been important to have as many testers as possible. If we make the judging harder or more time consuming with scoring in segments or something along those lines, I can see that detouring testers, especially those who are new or already on the fence about testing. And in the case like the Old School Class, or a few other tough tracks from the past, testing/reviews are difficult as is.
I am more than happy with the current scoring and the wide variety of tracks, but that's not to say that I would be opposed to change.
- 4,017
- New Jersey
- crash27wwjd
If the old DC stays the same, I have no problem with that. Just trying to give alternative. But, a statement should then be made in the OP with the rules in an attempt to avoid questioning. I have tuned and tested as well as hosted my share of events and know how it goes. Can leave it alone, I just shared my thoughts and opened it up for debate. Most testers do not give low DC based on not trying to offend and still reward an effort even if grossly flawed.
- 491
- United States
I think @Bowtie-muscle may be on to something. I use a "loose form" of his 3 categories to access DC. First I drive all cars stock, before tuner modifications are installed, times and brief notes. Then cars are modified and testing begins. Some questions I am looking for answers for....
1) Does it do what I want, when I want it to?
a) What do I like about this tune?
B) What don't I like about this tune?
c) Is it ME that is the Problem?
2) Are the laps consistent, or is it going to be a "one lap Wonder"? (no extra points for one lap wonders)
3) Do I like the Tune? (am I looking forward to pushing harder....or dredding it)
4) Does the tune have any qualities that set it above its peers?
5) How much improvement over stock? (tuners going outside the box getting extra credit vs. the some old thing)
So, the time is in the books....for me, the DC is about grading the tuner AND his finished product.
Edit: Anyone Brave enough to build a car and post here Gets a 7. I know how much time and heart goes into these tunes.
1) Does it do what I want, when I want it to?
a) What do I like about this tune?
B) What don't I like about this tune?
c) Is it ME that is the Problem?
2) Are the laps consistent, or is it going to be a "one lap Wonder"? (no extra points for one lap wonders)
3) Do I like the Tune? (am I looking forward to pushing harder....or dredding it)
4) Does the tune have any qualities that set it above its peers?
5) How much improvement over stock? (tuners going outside the box getting extra credit vs. the some old thing)
So, the time is in the books....for me, the DC is about grading the tuner AND his finished product.
Edit: Anyone Brave enough to build a car and post here Gets a 7. I know how much time and heart goes into these tunes.
👍
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Two ideas.
1.) A three point scale; good, better, best
2.) Change DC to simply be a rank, not a number. No decimal points. Testers post DC in a simple list with their favorite at the top and least on the bottom. Top favorite gets ten points, and on down from there.
Thoughts?
1.) A three point scale; good, better, best
2.) Change DC to simply be a rank, not a number. No decimal points. Testers post DC in a simple list with their favorite at the top and least on the bottom. Top favorite gets ten points, and on down from there.
Thoughts?
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
Sounds interesting, can you give an example using an actual FITT review to demonstrate how this will work?
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
We could do the ranking method using the posted results from your current competition. Maybe run a parellel set of DC results just to test the method. What I like about the method is that it removes most of the angst from the tester around setting a score. Ranking, with no numbers posted puts it onto the tuner to rank above his friends, not the tester for giving someone one point lower. It removes the subjectivity of the score. The tester now only needs to say I liked them in this order. It's super clean and difficult to argue with.
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
PM me and Otaliema and we will give this method a test run with one of the classes. I like your way of thinking and it would be interesting to see if it works. Sports Class has a full set of results so that would be the easiest class to use right now.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
Ahh right, now I'm with you 👍
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
RUF Sports Class Testing
Tester @biffa3
Proposed DC Scoring
Driver's Choice Rank (favorite listed first):
1. @joaosoarescso
2. @Brewguy44
3. @coryclifford
4. @Otaliema
5. @xande1959
6. @Ale67
7. @lBt_33
8. @randyrockstiff
Current Scoring
Driver's Choice Score:
@joaosoarescso - 10
@Brewguy44 - 9.5
@coryclifford -9.0
@Otaliema 9.0
@xande1959 - 8.5
@Ale67 - 8.5
@lBt_33 DC - 8
@randyrockstiff - 7.5
For this example, I had to break one tie between Otaliema an CoryClifford just to show how this would work. I just went alphabetical for sake of the example. In essence, with the current method, biffa was indicating his favorite tunes, but it left the tuners saying hey, why did I get an 8.0 and someone with a similar lap time get a 9.0. The scores become the subjective hang up. In the proposed method on the top, it is difficult to argue with biffa that he like joaosoarescso's tune better than Brewguy's. This is what I am recommending.
We would just need to agree upon a point system. What is it worth to be the favorite? What if we have more than ten tunes?
Proposed DC Scoring
Driver's Choice Rank (favorite listed first):
1. @joaosoarescso = 10 points
2. @Brewguy44 = 9 points
3. @coryclifford = 8 points
4. Otaliema = 7 points
5. @xande1959 = 6 points
6. @Ale67 = 5 points
7. @lBt_33 = 4 points
8. @randyrockstiff = 3 points
Tester @biffa3
Proposed DC Scoring
Driver's Choice Rank (favorite listed first):
1. @joaosoarescso
2. @Brewguy44
3. @coryclifford
4. @Otaliema
5. @xande1959
6. @Ale67
7. @lBt_33
8. @randyrockstiff
Current Scoring
Driver's Choice Score:
@joaosoarescso - 10
@Brewguy44 - 9.5
@coryclifford -9.0
@Otaliema 9.0
@xande1959 - 8.5
@Ale67 - 8.5
@lBt_33 DC - 8
@randyrockstiff - 7.5
For this example, I had to break one tie between Otaliema an CoryClifford just to show how this would work. I just went alphabetical for sake of the example. In essence, with the current method, biffa was indicating his favorite tunes, but it left the tuners saying hey, why did I get an 8.0 and someone with a similar lap time get a 9.0. The scores become the subjective hang up. In the proposed method on the top, it is difficult to argue with biffa that he like joaosoarescso's tune better than Brewguy's. This is what I am recommending.
We would just need to agree upon a point system. What is it worth to be the favorite? What if we have more than ten tunes?
Proposed DC Scoring
Driver's Choice Rank (favorite listed first):
1. @joaosoarescso = 10 points
2. @Brewguy44 = 9 points
3. @coryclifford = 8 points
4. Otaliema = 7 points
5. @xande1959 = 6 points
6. @Ale67 = 5 points
7. @lBt_33 = 4 points
8. @randyrockstiff = 3 points
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Absolutely! It would be very difficult for anyone to argue with you that you liked the @Brewguy44 tune better than the @coryclifford tune. This is all that we should be asking of the test drivers; which ones did you like best; put them in order. I am beginning to love this idea.
- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
If you did the numbers like....
10
9
8.5
8.0
7.5
7.0
And go in halves from there down, that would allow for up to 20 tuners....even I would have a hard time testing for that many!
Favorite tune would gain an advantage by the 1 point drop to second favorite.
10
9
8.5
8.0
7.5
7.0
And go in halves from there down, that would allow for up to 20 tuners....even I would have a hard time testing for that many!
Favorite tune would gain an advantage by the 1 point drop to second favorite.
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
Okay, I see it now. (I'm a visual learning guy..) Yes. I can see benefits in this system straight off. What is the most tuners we are likely to have in an event.. 15 tops? Make it 15-1 points perhaps.
So my reviews would be (using 10 as the highest score at this point in time)
10 - lbt
9 - cory
8 - brewguy
7 - joao
6 - otaliema
5 - ale67
4 - randyrockstiff
What process would we use to work out overall winner? add the total of all reviews together and whoever has the highest number of points wins driver choice?
So my reviews would be (using 10 as the highest score at this point in time)
10 - lbt
9 - cory
8 - brewguy
7 - joao
6 - otaliema
5 - ale67
4 - randyrockstiff
What process would we use to work out overall winner? add the total of all reviews together and whoever has the highest number of points wins driver choice?
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
- 5,653
- Ohio
I like it too.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Correction. This is F1:
1st : 25 points
2nd : 18 points
3rd : 15 points
4th : 12 points
5th : 10 points
6th : 8 points
7th : 6 points
8th : 4 points
9th : 2 points
10th : 1 point
This is more like the points suggestion from @Lionheart2113
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
How about a revised scoring structure based on this.
1st : 25 points
2nd : 20 points
3rd : 18 points
4th : 15 points
5th : 12 points
6th : 10 points
7th : 9 points
8th : 8 points
9th : 7 points
10th : 6 points
11th : 5 points
12th : 4 points
13th : 3 points
14th : 2 points
15th : 1 point
Would this work?
- 1,485
- Hampshire
- Lionheart2113
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
That was my thinking. It will also show consistency of a tune if they are in the top two tunes by every reviewer, the overall score will reflect that. (Brewguy and cory for example were very consistent in the class information we are using to test this).
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
@shaunm80 and @Lionheart2113 I think we should use the RUF Sports class as a run through. What would the results look like with this new method. You would hope that the results would be very, very similar and that this just created an easier method to get there. I think we are onto something.
- 7,163
- Exeter
- morans1980
That is definitely do-able, I can mock up a spreadsheet with the same data we have already and just change the score system. See what the data looks like then.
