FITT - Federation of International Tuners and Test-Drivers

[shaunm80]

Okay,

The new scoring system would produce this data for DC
Brewguy - 123 points
coryclifford - 115 points
Joaosoarescso - 104 points
Otaliema - 98 points
lBt - 78 points
Xande1959 - 69 points
Ale67 - 65 points
randyrockstiff - 50 points

Original system DC Averaged is
Brewguy44 9.60
coryclifford 9.52
joaosoarescso 9.27
Otaliema 9.20
lBt_33 8.78
Ale67 8.76
Xande1959 8.68
Randyrockstiff 8.13

There is a slight different with 6/7th place as I had to use my own judgement on reviews to decide tied DC scores but the first five places worked out precisely as the current standings are. I think that this system will work well personally and if I am being honest, I like seeing a points total rather than decimal places.

 

[Lionheart2113]

Okay,

The new scoring system would produce this data for DC
Brewguy - 123 points
coryclifford - 115 points
Joaosoarescso - 104 points
Otaliema - 98 points
lBt - 78 points
Xande1959 - 69 points
Ale67 - 65 points
randyrockstiff - 50 points

Original system DC Averaged is
Brewguy44 9.60
coryclifford 9.52
joaosoarescso 9.27
Otaliema 9.20
lBt_33 8.78
Ale67 8.76
Xande1959 8.68
Randyrockstiff 8.13

There is a slight different with 6/7th place as I had to use my own judgement on reviews to decide tied DC scores but the first five places worked out precisely as the current standings are. I think that this system will work well personally and if I am being honest, I like seeing a points total rather than decimal places.

No decimals? That just shows you don't like math! J/K Like Hami said, I can see this working. And whole numbers does keep it nice and tidy!👍

 

[shaunm80]

No decimals? That just shows you don't like math! J/K Like Hami said, I can see this working. And whole numbers does keep it nice and tidy!👍

Unfortunately I have to like maths. My first degree was computers and my current degree is Adult Nursing. Gotta know how to work out drug dosages and what not.. Maths is my friend.

 

[fordracer]

I like it. Looks like it will work fine. We have had 17 entries before.

 

[shaunm80]

I like it. Looks like it will work fine. We have had 17 entries before.

Well, if we follow the F1 style of scoring, some cars don't score points if they are at the back of the field.. Perhaps we should have a cut off point? I can't recall an event with 17 cars.. If you mean the BMW challenge Me and @Bowtie-muscle ran, I think it was 15 or 16 at the end because a couple of people dropped out of the challenge for personal reasons.

 

[fordracer]

The old / new at Monacco.

 

[shaunm80]

The old / new at Monacco.

Oh yeah.. Forgot about that one. Hmm. What do people think to capping the number of tuners that can score DC points in the new theoretical system? Fair, unfair?

 

[fordracer]

Ya, the Old vs New Hatchback Challenge had 17 entries. I guess if points were to be limited to the top 15 that would work just fine . 99% of the time it looks like it wont come into play.

 

[coryclifford]

Seems fair because if you're at the very bottom (scoreless) there's something pretty wrong with the car.

 

[fordracer]

From a testers point of view, I think this is a step forward. A large step. From a tuners point of view, I don't think the out come will change much, if any, and if it brings in/back more testers; that would be a step forward also. I am game to try it.

 

[shaunm80]

I am in the mindset that it definitely won't hurt to try out at the next FITT event. Something fresh for a new year and all that.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

We could do the ranking method using the posted results from your current competition. Maybe run a parellel set of DC results just to test the method. What I like about the method is that it removes most of the angst from the tester around setting a score. Ranking, with no numbers posted puts it onto the tuner to rank above his friends, not the tester for giving someone one point lower. It removes the subjectivity of the score. The tester now only needs to say I liked them in this order. It's super clean and difficult to argue with.

I like it 👍

 

[shaunm80]

With regards to using it in the current FITT event, It might mean asking testers to clarify which tunes they liked best though to get a duel set for all classes. I suppose we don't have that many testers to ask. Leave it with me and Otaliema to discuss as I can only speak for myself here. I am happy to do it but it will need agreement by Otaliema who is controlling the official scoring so he definitely needs to understand it all.

A compromise could be that the first two classes are scored in the original style, the last two classes are scored in the new "F1 style" (we need a new name I think as it might be copyrighted or something). That way, we could see the differences and get testers views on both?

 

[OdeFinn]

Your DC point scoring makes it something else than DC, now new method makes two close by tunes to go far away in scoring, no tie ranks on DC, huge gaps coming between tied and second etc..
From My point of view and understanding this new DC idea is far away from original DC, or anything suggested earlier by @Bowtie-muscle. It's against whole fitt. But do what you want to do, maybe scoring from amount of alphabets on name, one letter=1 point.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Well, I'm just happy that minds are thinking and being constructive to find a mid ground. I like starting at 25 and having gaps back to 10. That would sound simple enough to figure out.


Edit-dumb phone

 

[Motor City Hami]

I am in the mindset that it definitely won't hurt to try out at the next FITT event. Something fresh for a new year and all that.

Agree. This should become the FITT standard from here forward. You could even use it on the RUF classes that have not tested? Up to you.

And nice collaborative effort from the current FITT leadership to come to a quick, improved solution. You guys are the only thing keeping me interested in GT6.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Your DC point scoring makes it something else than DC, now new method makes two close by tunes to go far away in scoring, no tie ranks on DC, huge gaps coming between tied and second etc..
From My point of view and understanding this new DC idea is far away from original DC, or anything suggested earlier by @Bowtie-muscle. It's against whole fitt. But do what you want to do, maybe scoring from amount of alphabets on name, one letter=1 point.

And then there is you. Always seeming to swim up stream. I guess only dead fish go with the flow, right.

 

[shaunm80]

Agree. This should become the FITT standard from here forward. You could even use it on the RUF classes that have not tested? Up to you.

And nice collaborative effort from the current FITT leadership to come to a quick, improved solution. You guys are the only thing keeping me interested in GT6.

Leave it with me and Otaliema, if we can incorporate it into our current event, we will give it a road test.

 

[OdeFinn]

And then there is you. Always seeming to swim up stream. I guess only dead fish go with the flow, right.

Can you tell what benefits there are for others to make big differences between DC scoring? It's not scoring what sets "winner" of compo, but people, other, who are readers on GTPlanet are searching help, hints for tuning, after new scoring there is harder to see good tunes from "results".
0.1 point difference between first and second "DC" from tester is masked behind huge step on scoring system.

I'm not trying to be PITA here, but if there is ideology called "fitt", I'd like to see it serve more than few tuners or testers. It's "STICKY" thread what average Joe reader will look, maybe giving something good for them, instead of circus

Consumers like to see where points are coming, not just one score.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Can you tell what benefits there are for others to make big differences between DC scoring? It's not scoring what sets "winner" of compo, but people, other, who are readers on GTPlanet are searching help, hints for tuning, after new scoring there is harder to see good tunes from "results".
0.1 point difference between first and second "DC" from tester is masked behind huge step on scoring system.

I'm not trying to be PITA here, but if there is ideology called "fitt", I'd like to see it serve more than few tuners or testers. It's "STICKY" thread what average Joe reader will look, maybe giving something good for them, instead of circus.

This is the point where our opinions are different. Finishing 2nd by 0.1 or by 5.0 is still finishing 2nd.

 

[OdeFinn]

This is the point where our opinions are different. Finishing 2nd by 0.1 or by 5.0 is still finishing 2nd.

Again you are thinking DC as competition, lap times are competition values, DC is for information to "consumer".

 

[shaunm80]

Just to clarify, the tester will still comment on the tune and break it down in writing to accompany the DC preference. Just because we are changing the way we score DC, it doesn't mean that tuners lose the valuable feedback that they enjoy reading.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Again you are thinking DC as competition, lap times are competition values, DC is for information to "consumer".

Let me try to understand. If you win DC you will not celebrate. But you won. You were the best. You competed with others to be on top. How is that not a competition? Are you suggesting that DC is just feedback with no scores - no competition.

Not sure that I follow? Are you more satisfied placing 5th but knowing that people can see how close you came to 4th? You still placed 5th?

 

[OdeFinn]

Just to clarify, the tester will still comment on the tune and break it down in writing to accompany the DC preference. Just because we are changing the way we score DC, it doesn't mean that tuners lose the valuable feedback that they enjoy reading.

You want more people to interest and join "fitt" events, well maybe giving feedback on format what AJ can easily read/compare. Bowtie idea of splitting DC in multiple parts is excellent i idea for readers to see tune differences, maybe finding things what are suiting their driving style, or finding tuning ideas how to do their own tunes from differences in tunes explained on different parts of DC scores on tester report.

Let me try to understand. If you win DC you will not celebrate. But you won. You were the best. You competed with others to be on top. How is that not a competition? Are you suggesting that DC is just feedback with no scores - no competition.

Not sure that I follow? Are you more satisfied placing 5th but knowing that people can see how close you came to 4th? You still placed 5th?

Of course tuner will be proud of getting best DC, but again why not give good feedback channel what helps others too, than only proud tuner, maybe rest of GTP readers?

If tune is having hard snap back, and it's giving "negative" dc because of that and testers are stating info why they think it's having snapback can reader use that tune as base but trying to migrate setup from other tuner without snapback.
Yes this info can be written on current test schema too, but maybe, or somewhere, and maybe by someone. If there is DC "Handling" it would read there on every tester.

 

[TheInfamousJEW6]

Well IMHO I think ranking tunes is one of the best ideas yet to get the most out of DC! Not to mention how much easier it'll be on testers rather than coming up with some arbitrary number to explain your feeling about a particular tune. And adding more arbitrary numbers to multiple categories I could see getting very messy, not to mention organizing and tallying it all up at the end. Clean and simple always works better in the long run...

@shaunm80 and @Otaliema I'd be more than happy to go back and change my DC scores to rankings if asked!

 

[Lionheart2113]

Can you tell what benefits there are for others to make big differences between DC scoring? It's not scoring what sets "winner" of compo, but people, other, who are readers on GTPlanet are searching help, hints for tuning, after new scoring there is harder to see good tunes from "results".
0.1 point difference between first and second "DC" from tester is masked behind huge step on scoring system.

I'm not trying to be PITA here, but if there is ideology called "fitt", I'd like to see it serve more than few tuners or testers. It's "STICKY" thread what average Joe reader will look, maybe giving something good for them, instead of circus

View attachment 509693

Consumers like to see where points are coming, not just one score.

We've had this discussion before. There were talks about breaking the DC scoring down into sections, even going as far as scoring different parts of a corner, but there itself lies a problem. While having numbers to look at as you've shown is great for a consumer (I'm not disputing that) the difficulty on testers would be increased. FITT is suppose to be a friendly competition that allows anyone who wants to be involved to do so. The more you try and have us "average joe's" attempt to break down a tune, the more disputes you will have and risk losing possible testers. We "few tuners or testers" as you put it, are trying to find an easier way for testers to get involved and reduce further conflict, and hopefully increase interest for more testers. And with anything in this thread being new, I am positive that there would be a trial and a vote if this change is deemed acceptable. Yes, this thread is stickied and looked at by a lot of members of GTP, and they, like you have the right to voice their opinion. But pecimism isn't exactly helpful.

 

[fordracer]

Again you are thinking DC as competition, lap times are competition values, DC is for information to "consumer".

I completely disagree. I do not like a lot of the one lap wonders that are built for these challenges. I tune my cars to race, and a lot of them are tuned at the career races. The DC is the ONLY place I will be competitive for quite some time. When I get to better tuner, that will change. I also use the DC scores to evaluate how different drivers like the approach I took on that tune.

 

[OdeFinn]

I completely disagree. I do not like a lot of the one lap wonders that are built for these challenges. I tune my cars to race, and a lot of them are tuned at the career races. The DC is the ONLY place I will be competitive for quite some time. When I get to better tuner, that will change. I also use the DC scores to evaluate how different drivers like the approach I took on that tune.

And after "new" scoring this will come harder to see. You have to read between lines more, coz formerly very close to other tune has now bigger leap, even tester wants to "say" at it's nearly 10.0 so it's now 9.9, but not for long.

 

[fordracer]

Can you tell what benefits there are for others to make big differences between DC scoring? It's not scoring what sets "winner" of compo, but people, other, who are readers on GTPlanet are searching help, hints for tuning, after new scoring there is harder to see good tunes from "results".
0.1 point difference between first and second "DC" from tester is masked behind huge step on scoring system.

I'm not trying to be PITA here, but if there is ideology called "fitt", I'd like to see it serve more than few tuners or testers. It's "STICKY" thread what average Joe reader will look, maybe giving something good for them, instead of circus

View attachment 509693

Consumers like to see where points are coming, not just one score.

The IDEA is probably sound, HOWEVER, as a tester, who has tested two of the biggest groups we've had in a while(looking over the archives), I dont know how much TIME I am willing to invest.

 

[fordracer]

And after "new" scoring this will come harder to see. You have to read between lines more, coz formerly very close to other tune has now bigger leap, even tester wants to "say" at it's nearly 10.0 so it's now 9.9, but not for long.

People will adjust. If they have questions, I can't think of anyone here that wouldn't take a moment to answer them and explain.