FITT - Federation of International Tuners and Test-Drivers

[Otaliema]

500 is with no oil change, all available power upgrades (Engine tuning stage III and high RPM turbo) and 20 kg of ballast or a bit of power limiting. Or we could just take that out of the equation and make this class max hp, minimum weight and oil change?

Ahh didn't know that was maxxed out, I agree with demon that some room for varation is needed, in the case if the turing class maybe reduce the pp enough that we must make choices on ballast, what upgrades go on the car and maybe even use the PL, but allow us enough room to really push the car to it's limit, and give a differant restriction on pl or ballast so we can't just load the ballast and max the power and than dial it down to hit pp requirements.
This is your challenge so final call is yours, I'll have fun no matter what, sometimes fullbore tuning is harder than limited.

 

[demonchilde]

On a completely different note, for the future;

If we were going to all do very similar cars, with very close limits, I have an idea that would benifit the whole community.
We could all do Nascar, and the limits be the exact limits of the NASCAR challenge in the license races.
And in addition to just those races, also add like the wind race #3.
This way, we get the top tuners in the entire game (thats us, lol) to fine tune all of these beasts, and give the community choices.with results when any of them need a nascar car.

What do you guys think?

 

[Otaliema]

I dislike Nascar cars all power little grace

 

[demonchilde]

Yeah, all in all I agree Otaliema, they score about a 5 on my personal 1-10 fun meter, lol.
however, everyone who plays the game eventually will NEED to use them. And on top of that, there is a lot of fun in some of the online races with nascars. A simple car with raw power going around in circles is not fun. It is the number 1 stereotype people use who dislike racing and games like ours.
And its Nascar that mainly puts that stereotype in peoples heads.
I think to be able to do something different with them, and NOT just hit nothing but Daytona over and over and over, would benifit us all. They are engineering marvels of a sort, and I dont think they are used well considering. Id like to see Nascar in real life hit tracks that are very challenging, but they dont. They just stick to the same ones reinforcing the stereotype.

We could change that, if only in our little tiny corner of the world, we could have some fun.
That is the point right? To be challenged and have fun in the process?

 

[CyKosis1973]

Yeah, all in all I agree Otaliema, they score about a 5 on my personal 1-10 fun meter, lol.
however, everyone who plays the game eventually will NEED to use them.

I will never drive one, didn't in GT5 and won't in GT6. I dislike NASCAR. However, your point still stands, people will want to drive them and I like the idea of tuning these ridiculous beasts for technical tracks 👍

{Cy}

 

[xande1959]

nascar oval track and more strategically depending on the amount of laps and worn tire and fuel. eg a runway; Matterhorn Riffelsee / Weather: variable / team sertia interesting it all off

 

[demonchilde]

Or M.Rotenboden.
that track is sick, lol.

 

[Otaliema]

Very true about NASCAR, it's more strategy than anything else. A good tune will help but it's not the deciding factor most of the time.

Back on track to the roadsters, I did some testing with the tc car last night, and even with the 500pp limit, with no actual tuning just changing power and ballast I was getting more than half a second difference, so I would be happy with the 500pp cap on the tc cars, will be a tight challenge, but that's what makes it a challenge ya?
I haven't tested the other class cars yet but if the tc was that different at the same pp with just different parts I can only imagine how much change will be present in the none race cars.

I did find the tc has racing strips when painted...

 

[Motor City Hami]

For the Spec Miata class, I want it to be very restricted. With new tuners joining, it should make things less about the parts added and more about the suspension bits. Besides, it matches the spirit of a spec class. You should see how closely we run together in real life.

For Improved Touring, I could change that to a PP restriction vs. a HP restriction. The cars are all essentially the same. I will look at that tonight and pick a PP level.

For Street Touring Roadster, I think the track is going to be the deciding factor in this class. 500 PP is up there for this car. Maybe I should pull this one back a little? 450 pp or 475 pp? If I do drop the PP level I will also change the allowed tires to a harder set.

For Roadster Touring Car, with using a longer track, it should separate the lap times a bit more.

I will get this posted by Wednesday night and give ten days to tune.

 

[XDesperado67]

Please leave ITC as a HP/Weight restricted class.
We do lots of PP tuning and having to create a standout with different requirements than the usual can be a lot of fun.👍👍

 

[Lionheart2113]

Hey Hami, if there is a spot for a tuner, I'd like to give it a go. I'm sure I'd be in the beginners bracket, but I gotta represent and prove that those of us still using x throttle and square brake can still show some speed!

 

[DaBomm4]

@Lionheart2113, the event will be open to everyone when he officially starts it tomorrow night. It will be fun to have you in it, and anyone else who think they may want to join.
I am working on a parts guide for the MX-5 '89 with HP and Torque at RPM, and max RPM. All of it includes the power limiting down to the 135 HP requirement. I will either be finishing it tonight or some time early tomorrow.

 

[DolHaus]

Ok. Thought about the FITT Miata Tuner Challenge over lunch today at work. This is where I am at. Pick two classes to tune from the four classifications below.

Spec Miata
Beginners only, no FITT podium finishers from GT5 or GT6
MX-5 Miata NA from this list https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...s-and-test-drivers.291311/page-7#post-9335986
135 hp max
950 kg minimum weight
Comfort Soft Tires
Streets of Willow Springs 1.66 miles

Improved Touring
MX-5 Miata NB https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...s-and-test-drivers.291311/page-7#post-9335987
200 hp max
925 kg minimum weight
Sport Hard Tires
Apricot Hill 2.40 miles

Street Touring
Mazda Roadster '07
500 PP
Sport Soft Tires
Matterhorn Rotenboden 2.2 miles

Touring Car
Mazda Roadster Touring Car '07
500 PP
Racing Hard Tires
Silverstone Grand Prix 3.66 miles

Thoughts? Should I post this in the next two days?

I don't know if you intend to add a PP limit to the other classes but it may be wise. I recently did a tune on a Skyline GT350 for some online racing series and I couldn't reach the PP limit that was posted (305hp @ 1450kg was supposed to be 464 but I was only getting 457), turns out that if you add all the tuning parts for the engine and then limit it the BHP drops normally but the torque is a fair bit higher (I was getting 36.5 he was getting 47.6) . Might give some confusing results if some people and not other know about this feature

 

[DaBomm4]

I don't know if you intend to add a PP limit to the other classes but it may be wise. I recently did a tune on a Skyline GT350 for some online racing series and I couldn't reach the PP limit that was posted (305hp @ 1450kg was supposed to be 464 but I was only getting 457), turns out that if you add all the tuning parts for the engine and then limit it the BHP drops normally but the torque is a fair bit higher (I was getting 36.5 he was getting 47.6) . Might give some confusing results if some people and not other know about this feature

This makes be think that I should add the PP for my parts guide. That won't take too long so I will add this to that also. I was noticing a variation of a few PP from the different parts.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I don't know if you intend to add a PP limit to the other classes but it may be wise. I recently did a tune on a Skyline GT350 for some online racing series and I couldn't reach the PP limit that was posted (305hp @ 1450kg was supposed to be 464 but I was only getting 457), turns out that if you add all the tuning parts for the engine and then limit it the BHP drops normally but the torque is a fair bit higher (I was getting 36.5 he was getting 47.6) . Might give some confusing results if some people and not other know about this feature

I have built all of the Miatas at some point already in GT6. There are some differences between models. For Spec Miata, I want a class limited a bit differently and a bit more like the SCCA does it for the class. HP and minimum weight feels right. There may still be some winners and losers among the different model years. Tuners may have to build a few of them and compare the different handling characteristics.

As for the Improved Touring class, all of the cars seem about the same to me. It should be a close field.

This makes be think that I should add the PP for my parts guide. That won't take too long so I will add this to that also. I was noticing a variation of a few PP from the different parts.

I would add PP to any guide. So much of GT racing is PP limited.

 

[XDesperado67]

@DolHaus remember that PP is only a rough aproximation of a cars potential.
We tend to use it a lot in online racing, but in GT5 I was involved in some HP/Weight events and found they could produce equally tight results even when there was a several point difference in cars PP.

Depending on the cars in question and how much use of power limiter is allowed can have a big impact. Lower torque cars like the Miata's may indeed bennefit from using more power limiter to reach a certain HP figure as they probably won't have huge issues with torque overwhelming the tires available grip.
That being said, how much if any bennefit you might see by tuning for max torque remains to be seen.
Part of tuning is getting the most efficient use out of what's available. So getting a well mached LSD and transmission with less torque (and thus less PP) could prove to be a better and quicker car than trying to get max PP from overbuilding then limiting the power to maximize torque.

 

[DolHaus]

@DolHaus remember that PP is only a rough aproximation of a cars potential.
We tend to use it a lot in online racing, but in GT5 I was involved in some HP/Weight events and found they could produce equally tight results even when there was a several point difference in cars PP.

Depending on the cars in question and how much use of power limiter is allowed can have a big impact. Lower torque cars like the Miata's may indeed bennefit from using more power limiter to reach a certain HP figure as they probably won't have huge issues with torque overwhelming the tires available grip.
That being said, how much if any bennefit you might see by tuning for max torque remains to be seen.
Part of tuning is getting the most efficient use out of what's available. So getting a well mached LSD and transmission with less torque (and thus less PP) could prove to be a better and quicker car than trying to get max PP from overbuilding then limiting the power to maximize torque.

All i'm suggesting is that it could prove expensive, a possible 25% (figures from the skyline) increase in torque at the same HP is a tempting prospect but you have to buy all the engine upgrades which would make it costly for the testers. It could create errors with the wrong parts on the wrong cars making lsd setting not work properly. A restriction on engine power reduction would be an easy solution, saves writing up an approved parts list.
These are fairly sensitive little cars and a seemingly small change could possibly have quite a pronounced effect

 

[XDesperado67]

@DolHaus the two HP/weight restricted classes have 90% max allowed power limiter which means you'll still need to make some serious decisions on what parts to install.

To be honest I expect that ITC as @Motor City Hami has it currently listed, will produce some of our tightest results ever in a competition.

 

[DaBomm4]

you have to buy all the engine upgrades which would make it costly for the testers.

For the MX-5 '89, that cost is $50,000 for all relevant parts to this event.
Ninja edit: in power only.

a possible 25% (figures from the skyline) increase in torque at the same HP

The minimum torque i have found so far with MX-5 '89 is 110.5 and a max of 125.0 which is about a 12% difference. All my guide will include is performance change numbers because I have not even driven this car yet.

 

[DolHaus]

@DolHaus the two HP/weight restricted classes have 90% max allowed power limiter which means you'll still need to make some serious decisions on what parts to install.

To be honest I expect that ITC as @Motor City Hami has it currently listed, will produce some of our tightest results ever in a competition.

Ok cool, didn't see that posted anywhere so I was just making sure.
Looking forward to it, should be a good competition

 

[DolHaus]

For the MX-5 '89, that cost is $50,000 for all relevant parts to this event.
Ninja edit: in power only.


The minimum torque i have found so far with MX-5 '89 is 110.5 and a max of 125.0 which is about a 12% difference. All my guide will include is performance change numbers because I have not even driven this car yet.

Should make an interesting read, be interesting to see what effects show up.

 

[DaBomm4]

Should make an interesting read, be interesting to see what effects show up.

I agree, it has been interesting with some of the changes and similarities with changing parts with the limiter.

 

[DolHaus]

I agree, it has been interesting with some of the changes and similarities with changing parts with the limiter.

I was surprised at how much of a torque increase there was with the Skyline, but I guess the % gain is proportional to engine size and potential

 

[DaBomm4]

Well, that correlates to what @BlueShift has been saying in the power limiting thread, which is what actually mad me think to do this guide. I also checked with those numbers i gave, the 110.5 was at 100% PL and the 125 was at 90.2%, so as @BlueShift was saying, as PL use increases, torque increases to an extent too.

 

[DolHaus]

Certainly an interesting twist on power tuning, never really thought about it that much before

 

[Otaliema]

I've found power tuning to very effective for some cars, and others could care less and some hate it. I've not done enough testing to find out if the roadsters like it or not.
The reason it helps, is it crafts a larger power band of the maximum hp with more over all torque for that time.

 

[killerjimbag]

Hami I'll go in for the spec race as a tuner.

 

[Motor City Hami]

For the MX-5 '89, that cost is $50,000 for all relevant parts to this event.
Ninja edit: in power only.

All my guide will include is performance change numbers because I have not even driven this car yet.

Something to think about as you build your guide. There are many oddities in Gran Turismo. Almost every time that I look at cars on paper and try to predict which build will be faster, after driving the cars there are PD anomalies. Take for example the Classic Car shootout that just wrapped. The Mustang Mach 1 looks terrible on paper, but handles so well that it is a ringer. The power to weight ratio for this car was the absolute worst of all of the available muscle cars.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Hami I'll go in for the spec race as a tuner.

That is awesome. Happy to have such a NASCAR star join our ranks. Will be interesting to see what you can do with Speck Miata.

 

[killerjimbag]

Actually I don't race them anymore.A little boring going left all the time.I have been racing the Miata 157 HP cars no ABS lately. From the post you had about the PURE series paintable cars.I also will be posting a whole bunch of no ABS tunes soon.