FITT Ford Challenges by MCH

[Otaliema]

@Badger66 the best way to look at power and torque is this. IMHO. anyone else feel free toss your 2 bits in on this one, it's a bit of a debate still.
Torque=Acceleration
Power=Speed
Than balaence them for the car and the track, is the track long(ish) lots of mid-high speed areas? or is it short with lots of tight turns? Does the car take to high torque? can the tyres take it?
I personally try and max out the torque to the tyre limit on a car for a short track car or a light weight car that rely's on acceleration to be competitive.
On cars or tracks that ment to be fast I try and max the power with in the limits of the tyre car and PP target, and make up some of the acceleration with the transmission, and rely on the power to carry the car.

 

[DolHaus]

@DolHaus thanks for the review, glad to see it was still fast in the hands of a trail braker,(only 0.040 behind you in your own car) but I knew the setup would feel unstable for that driving style.👍
Did you get a chance to drive the average setups? The one for the '06 is ridiculously fast!

Glad to hear mine was almost like Hami's. All of my good scores/cars are a tribute to his tuning guide in GT5. Although I got into tuning very late, it was still easy to follow. So that must mean that all of my bad scores/cars are when I color outside of the lines.
And that lap when you knocked off 0.3 was done when you weren't thinking about it. I like to setup my cars to be fast and not have to think, because thinking hurts!

I haven't had a chance to drive the average cars yet but I will try to fit them in.

You know what its like with auto trans, sometimes it just leaves you in a higher gear for a corner or gets an early upshift on exit and kills the wheelspin.
I got lucky on my lap as well, was running about as fast and clean as possible and leaving just a layer of paint between me and the barriers. I think yours was faster on the split times but I closed up in the last section because my lack of rear toe out meant I could hold a more stable line and get a better run into the last corner. A lot of the laps could be put down to luck of the draw really, its a difficult lap full of tricky sections and its always a case of whether I can put it together within the 10 laps.

Ill take your comments about the LSD on board and see if I can make this ST a little quicker. Thanks for the feedback and your time in it is excellent. Out of interest, what time do you reckon this tune could run if I can sort out the LSD?

It felt like it could easily get into the high 1:00.xxx's if it could just get the power down better out of the corners. Doesn't need much, just raise the accel until it stops lighting up the inside wheel (don't be afraid to try 45+) and drop the decel one or two ticks and that's all it needs I think.

Thanks again @DolHaus.....Just a quick question and i've been thinking about what you put in your review....why do you think it never pulled out of the corners as quick as the others...do you think it would of been better if i set the power parts up differently ie....power 96.7...Engine Tuning stage 2...Sports Exhaust...Catalytic Converter Sports...You get 450pp and 265bhp and 37kgfm of max Torque....that's 13bhp more and 8kgfm less Torque if i did it this way...So my question is do you think having more power and less torque would of helped it pull away faster out of the corners and with less wheelspin or did it help having less power and more Torque on the full speed sections... It would be good to hear your opinion...👍 Or anyone Else's....


I forgot to say that you beat my best time...you were just over 1 sec faster.... Well done...to you and all the Tester...you all really do know how to drive to get these times...

Thanks for your positive review and feedback

The trick I've found is to ignore the peak power figures and instead took at the power/torque curves. The Mid-RPM gives more peak torque which should equal better acceleration but if we look at the graph the peak is quite low down in the RPM range.
When combined with the close ratio transmission this has a self cancelling effect. The transmission is trying to operate in a narrow RPM range, once you're out of 1st gear you're no longer using the part of the RPM range where your strength lies and therefore producing less power. To get the best out of the car you would have to short shift through all of the gears in order to keep the RPM low and stay on the power, with a tight track like this where you are constantly bouncing off the redline this method is just not applicable.
The way I usually try to find the best power options is to run a lap and pay attention to where in the RPM range the car is spending the most time and then fit the parts that give me the best power within that range.

This said, the lack of torque in the higher RPM made the car easier to manage through the corners as it didn't overwhelm the tyres as much. You might be able to get the best of both worlds with heavier power limiting (not sure if this would be applicable within the rules) as you can flatline the BHP curve and rely on that to give you the drive out of the corners. 👍

 

[Otaliema]

So I've resumed testing the focus group to see if i can finish by the deadline, just hit my car and noticed that i flipped my ballast and postion numbers.....so I'm 12 kg heavy with the ballast in the wrong spot. it oddly left the car in the same PP which is why no one noticed.
say la vi no?

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

So I've resumed testing the focus group to see if i can finish by the deadline, just hit my car and noticed that i flipped my ballast and postion numbers.....so I'm 12 kg heavy with the ballast in the wrong spot. it oddly left the car in the same PP which is why no one noticed.
say la vi no?

You feeling better today?

 

[shaunm80]

So I've resumed testing the focus group to see if i can finish by the deadline, just hit my car and noticed that i flipped my ballast and postion numbers.....so I'm 12 kg heavy with the ballast in the wrong spot. it oddly left the car in the same PP which is why no one noticed.
say la vi no?

What did it do to the handling?

 

[Otaliema]

You feeling better today?

Functionaly medicated. Waiting for the kids to wake up so I can get to cleaning the house after 2 1/2 days of me being sick it's a disaster in here.

What did it do to the handling?

Caused the front tires to load faster than tuned for. Which is causing a bit more understeer sooner in the corner. So rather then late mid-exit understeer which you can drift wide and scoot a wall with your getting mid-exit understeer causing too much drift and reduction of speed to compensate for m.

 

[shaunm80]

Functionaly medicated. Waiting for the kids to wake up so I can get to cleaning the house after 2 1/2 days of me being sick it's a disaster in here.

Caused the front tires to load faster than tuned for. Which is causing a bit more understeer sooner in the corner. So rather then late mid-exit understeer which you can drift wide and scoot a wall with your getting mid-exit understeer causing too much drift and reduction of speed to compensate for m.

That may explain some of your reviews where they mention understeer then. On the plus side, even with your typo, your DC is still better than mine. I think your time is quicker too.. My issue appears to be LSD.. I must stop taking them, they really make my day seem better than it should be.

 

[Otaliema]

That may explain some of your reviews where they mention understeer then. On the plus side, even with your typo, your DC is still better than mine. I think your time is quicker too.. My issue appears to be LSD.. I must stop taking them, they really make my day seem better than it should be.

Yeah it has more than expected, it actually may have helped the grip level of the car evven though it's a worse ptwr when I tried chasing my ghost it pulled away from me out of most turns. the line wasn't as smooth but it was acutally faster a typo that went in my favor that don't happen often.

I never figured out the understeer on this car during tuning so I tuned around it to the best of my ability, and i am doing better in this than I thought I would.

 

[brian wolf]

@brian wolf – 1:01.383

8.5

Unstable and erratic is the only way I can describe this car, this isn't necessarily a bad thing though! Whilst it wasn't the easiest to drive or the fastest it was a lot of fun just trying to hold on during the wild ride, you never quite knew what it was going to do next and I liked that, it gave the car a personality.

Maybe I didn`t tame it enough after all! Glad it wasn`t boring though! 👍
Cheers for testing mate, and for the kind review!

 

[DolHaus]

Maybe I didn`t tame it enough after all! Glad it wasn`t boring though! 👍
Cheers for testing mate, and for the kind review!

No problem, I like a slightly unhinged car as they're more engaging to drive

 

[Otaliema]

Maybe I didn`t tame it enough after all! Glad it wasn`t boring though! 👍
Cheers for testing mate, and for the kind review!

Your car was far from tame, it was the wildest of the 2006's maybe even the lot still have the 2013's todo.

 

[DolHaus]

Your car was far from tame, it was the wildest of the 2006's maybe even the lot still have the 2013's todo.

You wait until you get to Hami's

 

[Otaliema]

You wait until you get to Hami's

ohh boy, so i should have a smoke and maybe even a drink first?

 

[DolHaus]

ohh boy, so i should have a smoke and maybe even a drink first?

You should probably contact your lawyer and make sure your affairs are in order

 

[Motor City Hami]

So the Mustang deadline has technically passed this morning. I see a few empty slots. Have I just missed linking a few or are there tuners who could use until Friday night?

 

[Motor City Hami]

So the Mustang deadline has technically passed this morning. I see a few empty slots. Have I just missed linking a few or are there tuners who could use until Friday night?

Ok. I missed a bunch. Thanks @Bowtie-muscle.

Looking for the tune from @Chipmonk77 . Let me know if you need a little more time to post your Mustang tune.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

• I have some of the links for you here, and then the others were posted after.

Edit: I see you found it.

 

[Badger66]

@Badger66 the best way to look at power and torque is this. IMHO. anyone else feel free toss your 2 bits in on this one, it's a bit of a debate still.
Torque=Acceleration
Power=Speed
Than balaence them for the car and the track, is the track long(ish) lots of mid-high speed areas? or is it short with lots of tight turns? Does the car take to high torque? can the tyres take it?
I personally try and max out the torque to the tyre limit on a car for a short track car or a light weight car that rely's on acceleration to be competitive.
On cars or tracks that ment to be fast I try and max the power with in the limits of the tyre car and PP target, and make up some of the acceleration with the transmission, and rely on the power to carry the car.

The trick I've found is to ignore the peak power figures and instead took at the power/torque curves. The Mid-RPM gives more peak torque which should equal better acceleration but if we look at the graph the peak is quite low down in the RPM range.
When combined with the close ratio transmission this has a self cancelling effect. The transmission is trying to operate in a narrow RPM range, once you're out of 1st gear you're no longer using the part of the RPM range where your strength lies and therefore producing less power. To get the best out of the car you would have to short shift through all of the gears in order to keep the RPM low and stay on the power, with a tight track like this where you are constantly bouncing off the redline this method is just not applicable.
The way I usually try to find the best power options is to run a lap and pay attention to where in the RPM range the car is spending the most time and then fit the parts that give me the best power within that range.

This said, the lack of torque in the higher RPM made the car easier to manage through the corners as it didn't overwhelm the tyres as much. You might be able to get the best of both worlds with heavier power limiting (not sure if this would be applicable within the rules) as you can flatline the BHP curve and rely on that to give you the drive out of the corners. 👍

Thanks guys this is interesting and also a bit confusing...because i'm new to all this and normally all the hard work is done when i get a tune off someone else and now i really appreciate what goes into a tune after spending so much time tuning my 2 cars for these 2 FITT Challenges and the knowledge that everyone has on here...plus everybody wants to help you when you have a problem...it's Awesome and thanks.... i will take into consideration what you both said and next time i tune a car i will really have a think about what i'm doing with the power and torque on a certain track and car....👍

Thanks again

 

[DolHaus]

Thanks guys this is interesting and also a bit confusing...because i'm new to all this and normally all the hard work is done when i get a tune off someone else and now i really appreciate what goes into a tune after spending so much time tuning my 2 cars for these 2 FITT Challenges and the knowledge that everyone has on here...plus everybody wants to help you when you have a problem...it's Awesome and thanks.... i will take into consideration what you both said and next time i tune a car i will really have a think about what i'm doing with the power and torque on a certain track and car....👍

Thanks again

When in doubt, experiment!
We can run you through all the theory you want but getting stuck in and having a go yourself is always the best way to find out 👍

 

[Badger66]

When in doubt, experiment!
We can run you through all the theory you want but getting stuck in and having a go yourself is always the best way to find out 👍

And it's always the best way for me...once i have tried something in practical form then i understand it and never forget it...

 

[Otaliema]

And it's always the best way for me...once i have tried something in practical form then i understand it and never forget it...

Grab your self a Lotus Elise 111R and tune it to 500 PP to run on CS-SS tires on a race stable tune And don't use chassis reinforcement.
That will teach you a thing or twenty
Ohh and the last bit build a standing start transmission that doesn't really bog down and can hit 270km/h un assistated. Once you have that completed you have your self a 450-500PP car that can run any track vrs just about any car in that range on all but the super high speed tracks.

 

[Badger66]

Grab your self a Lotus Elise 111R and tune it to 500 PP to run on CS-SS tires on a race stable tune And don't use chassis reinforcement.
That will teach you a thing or twenty
Ohh and the last bit build a standing start transmission that doesn't really bog down and can hit 270km/h un assistated. Once you have that completed you have your self a 450-500PP car that can run any track vrs just about any car in that range on all but the super high speed tracks.

And i bet it will teach me a thing or 20... That car has so much torque.....that would be fun...should pull a few unintentional Donuts with that then.... Cheers

 

[biffa3]

3 left in the 'Stang class. Should be done tomorrow with results posted in the evening before the footy. Some very surprising entries here, and complete opposite to the Focus event. Good luck the other testers, prepare for air and dirt.

 

[DolHaus]

3 left in the 'Stang class. Should be done tomorrow with results posted in the evening before the footy. Some very surprising entries here, and complete opposite to the Focus event. Good luck the other testers, prepare for air and dirt.

Yeah I'm not looking forward to testing that class so much either, even after a few hundred laps during tuning I still find myself falling off more than I would like

Best of luck with the rest

 

[shaunm80]

3 left in the 'Stang class. Should be done tomorrow with results posted in the evening before the footy. Some very surprising entries here, and complete opposite to the Focus event. Good luck the other testers, prepare for air and dirt.

You are a testing speed demon. I applaud your dedication that you put into these competitions.

 

[Otaliema]

Yeah I'm not looking forward to testing that class so much either, even after a few hundred laps during tuning I still find myself falling off more than I would like

Best of luck with the rest

brake eariler, the way the road is banked for most turns at Big Willow it tosses you off the track if you brake too late.

3 left in the 'Stang class. Should be done tomorrow with results posted in the evening before the footy. Some very surprising entries here, and complete opposite to the Focus event. Good luck the other testers, prepare for air and dirt.

Seresiouly dude? you are deacated to testing, and I presume you are early testing as well?

 

[DolHaus]

brake eariler, the way the road is banked for most turns at Big Willow it tosses you off the track if you brake too late.

Its just the lip on the edge of the track that gets me, if you put a wheel over that then there's no coming back

I just can't do early braking or conservative driving.
When in doubt, flat out, if you haven't crashed it at least once then you're not going fast enough

 

[biffa3]

brake eariler, the way the road is banked for most turns at Big Willow it tosses you off the track if you brake too late.

Seresiouly dude? you are deacated to testing, and I presume you are early testing as well?

Managed to get a few early ones in, the class is quite varied with external parts but managed to put them in some kind of order so i'm not in and out of the track for every car.

 

[Otaliema]

Its just the lip on the edge of the track that gets me, if you put a wheel over that then there's no coming back

I just can't do early braking or conservative driving.
When in doubt, flat out, if you haven't crashed it at least once then you're not going fast enough

Sure ya can it will just drive you batty if your not there already.
Anyways what I meant was brake earlier than you are currently not by much ten meters or so that will set you better for the turn not so close to the edge.

Managed to get a few early ones in, the class is quite varied with external parts but managed to put them in some kind of order so i'm not in and out of the track for every car.

Ahh so many options that just about every car is different?

 

[biffa3]

You are a testing speed demon. I applaud your dedication that you put into these competitions.

Been lucky with the other half being out every night this week, also been trying to limit to 3 or 4 a day trying to steer clear of track fatigue.