FITT - Moving on to GT6!

[luv2drive]

Our list of test drivers is getting really small. We either have to find new people looking to join the fun or start making testing a requirement for tuner sign up.

I've really enjoyed the events that I've participated in. Sorry I've been a bit busy and haven't been able to commit to the recent events. I'm out of town now, but I'll be back in mid-July and look forward to getting more active in these again.

 

[trackripper123]

I think it could work to split all of the challenges into two groups. All tuners are required to test the group that they are not part of.

Although the idea is sound, it won't work in practice as the number of tuners participating will decrease, you won't get more test drivers...

Testers need time, and that's something all of us lack sometimes.

 

[Onboy123]

…That, as well as the fact that testing, in essence, is you getting into a car, driving them lap after lap, and then getting out, finding another car, rinse + repeat. This makes it…what's the word…? Dull. Unless you're someone crazy like…me, I suppose, who does these things solely for the benefit of others, you'd be hard pressed to find someone that bored on GT5.

Just sayin'.

 

[trackripper123]

If I'm honest, I don't see a problem with the current situation, the cars are still getting tested and there's a result at the end, and so far no shootout has had less than 2/3 test drivers, making things quick but the tuners still get a decent amount of feedback.

 

[Onboy123]

Yea, but now that we're trying to get more testers, we're making feedback optional, which reduces time taken, but basically misses the whole point of the shootout (for everyone to get something out of it, the competition is the an excuse for the gathering).

I mean, for the 380PP STC, we made it an option to provide feedback, and I got, what, 1 person giving me some idea as to how the car drove.

 

[trackripper123]

That's why I'm saying I don't see a problem with the current situation. So long as the test drivers give times and a good amount of feedback, I don't really care if there are 2 or 20.

 

[nomis3613]

This makes it…what's the word…? Dull. Unless you're someone crazy like…me...

Onboy, yes we need more crazy people like you!!!

That's why I'm saying I don't see a problem with the current situation. So long as the test drivers give times and a good amount of feedback, I don't really care if there are 2 or 20.

Actually, I think at least 3 testers are required, otherwise one tester with a ..ahem... "unusual driving style" skews the results too much.

 

[Onboy123]

Onboy, yes we need more crazy people like you!!!

You being one of them.

We need to form a tuner's/tester's charity group, where we will voluntarily drive cars for the masses of tuners here and provide feedback (at no cost to the tuner unless he/she insists), with the decreasing size of the audience here as everyone is learning more about tuning everyday.

 

[VTiRoj]

Yea, but now that we're trying to get more testers, we're making feedback optional, which reduces time taken, but basically misses the whole point of the shootout (for everyone to get something out of it, the competition is the an excuse for the gathering).

I mean, for the 380PP STC, we made it an option to provide feedback, and I got, what, 1 person giving me some idea as to how the car drove.

I've noticed that contests that offer prizes to every tester tend to get more testers interested. So with that, why not offer even better prizes to testers who give feedback? Let's say if you provide feedback, you get a chrome paint chip or something.

Also when I say feedback, I mean legit feedback. Not "it understeers".

 

[Onboy123]

I've noticed that contests that offer prizes to every tester tend to get more testers interested. So with that, why not offer even better prizes to testers who give feedback? Let's say if you provide feedback, you get a chrome paint chip or something.

Also when I say feedback, I mean legit feedback. Not "it understeers".

Well, there's an issue with that. I bet most the new testers who do the shootout driving don't have half a clue what needs to be done to resolve the situation…so would it not be easier to have them give detailed feedback/description of the drive, and leave it to the tuner(s*) to correct it. That way, both sides are playing their roles, both sides get something out of it, the tuner in question gets their car tweaked by the community, everyone wins!

*We'll help each other out if it does come to a point where we have a misunderstanding of situations.

 

[VTiRoj]

Well, there's an issue with that. I bet most the new testers who do the shootout driving don't have half a clue what needs to be done to resolve the situation…so would it not be easier to have them give detailed feedback/description of the drive, and leave it to the tuner(s*) to correct it. That way, both sides are playing their roles, both sides get something out of it, the tuner in question gets their car tweaked by the community, everyone wins!

*We'll help each other out if it does come to a point where we have a misunderstanding of situations.

Testers aren't required to give tuning advice anyway. That's just what naturally happens when a tuner becomes a tester.

 

[Onboy123]

Testers aren't required to give tuning advice anyway. That's just what naturally happens when a tuner becomes a tester.

I thought tuning advice was a form of feedback?

 

[VTiRoj]

I thought tuning advice was a form of feedback?

It is, but not everyone knows how to blind tune on the fly. For normal feedback, describing the behavior of the car is enough. The tuner can make adjustments based on that alone. 👍

 

[krenkme]

Better rewards for testers I think is a good way to go. So I would like to be a full time tester sponsor. For any shootout from this point forward Clueless tunes would like to offer any tester any premium car worth up to 250,000cr.... of course tuned by Clueless if you'd like

How's that for incentive?

 

[DigitalBaka]

Since my World Challenge is a pretty testing intense event my thought was to give out lots and lots of prizes for testing. I think that is definitely a good way to get folks involved, at least in the short term.

As far as posting on other GT sites, I think most sites frown upon that. If a few folks want to give it a shot it could help. I've also given some thought to a Facebook page or Twitter thinger. Seems like everything is there anyway and though I myself use them rarely it could be a good resource as we'd be able to cross post to the PS pages and such. I'll give it some research tonight.

And on feedback, I agree with Roj. Even as a novice I know enough that if someone tells me "the car does x" I can tweak a couple things to improve that. Of course, if someone like Roj tells you that your front LSD is rubbish... :tup:

 

[SolidSnake7735]

Hi, everybody!

Optomuscrime and myself are collaborating on a new Touge project, unnamed still, which will incorporate driver rankings, stats and other fancy stuff for you to scout other drivers and learn make your touge experience more enjoyable. Part of which includes weekly/bi-weekly tournaments and competitions for ranking points; the first of which will be this Sunday 5PM-EST. There are 16 slots available, and the competition is open to drivers of all skill levels!!

450PP TOUGE TIME-ATTACK & TOURNAMENT
Sunday July 8th, 2012 @5PM-EST

Official Entries:
1. SolidSnake7735
2. Optomuscrime
3. ReeceesPuffs
4. Slick-94
5. bear989
6. devintheninja
7. xXGR4NDTUR1SM0Xx
8. LinoDrifts
9. Street-King-07
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.

If you're interested in running, post here or PM me before all slots are filled. Also I'd recommend joining my touge-themed TIME-ATTACK lobbies throughout the week to get in some practice time, or do so on your own. Good Luck to all entries and see you Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!!

REGISTER BY POSTING HERE or PM'ing me

This video here will show you exactly what we'll be doing this Sunday

 

[Motor City Hami]

Guys, are we killing our testers right now, the very few that we have? How many competitions are going at one time, right now?

Wallbangers FF Challenge 2nd round
Toyota 86 Tuning Challenge
Nurgurg 500PP Street Tuner Challenge
Caterham Tuning Shootout

I know that FITT cannot tell others not to host one-off competitions, but most of the tuner entries are FITT tuners so doesn't that imply FITT support? I am just concerned with the dwindling numbers of pure test drivers will we be burning out that very small group.

I am next in line for the next official FITT tuner challenge with Rally vs. Street. I think it should wait until August 1 as a start date? Guess it depends on when Wallbanger's officially ends. I am leaning very strongly toward requiring all tuners to also be test drivers. And yes, this may discourage some tuners from entering. But, keep the test driving reasonable - everyone tests five pairs of entries (ten tunes - 5 laps each). With a rally track around 2 min lap times and tarmac track around 1:15, testing ten cars at 5 laps each should take less than 2 hours, with reasonable load times. My scoring system is set up so that it will not require a 2nd round.

I think this may be where FITT is headed, tuners are also testers. There can still be tester only people and they can test as many groups as they would like.

Feedback welcome.

 

[SolidSnake7735]

Guys, are we killing our testers right now, the very few that we have? How many competitions are going at one time, right now?

Wallbangers FF Challenge 2nd round
Toyota 86 Tuning Challenge
Nurgurg 500PP Street Tuner Challenge
Caterham Tuning Shootout

I know that FITT cannot tell others not to host one-off competitions, but most of the tuner entries are FITT tuners so doesn't that imply FITT support? I am just concerned with the dwindling numbers of pure test drivers will we be burning out that very small group.

I am next in line for the next official FITT tuner challenge with Rally vs. Street. I think it should wait until August 1 as a start date? Guess it depends on when Wallbanger's officially ends. I am leaning very strongly toward requiring all tuners to also be test drivers. And yes, this may discourage some tuners from entering. But, keep the test driving reasonable - everyone tests five pairs of entries (ten tunes - 5 laps each). With a rally track around 2 min lap times and tarmac track around 1:15, testing ten cars at 5 laps each should take less than 2 hours, with reasonable load times. My scoring system is set up so that it will not require a 2nd round.

I think this may be where FITT is headed, tuners are also testers. There can still be tester only people and they can test as many groups as they would like.

Feedback welcome.

You make a great point as this is one busy busy month for FITT. I would be a tester myself, but having little room in my friend's list is difficult to add all the tuners/testers that enter these events :/

 

[nomis3613]

Guys, are we killing our testers right now, the very few that we have? How many competitions are going at one time, right now?

Wallbangers FF Challenge 2nd round
Toyota 86 Tuning Challenge
Nurgurg 500PP Street Tuner Challenge
Caterham Tuning Shootout

I know that FITT cannot tell others not to host one-off competitions, but most of the tuner entries are FITT tuners so doesn't that imply FITT support? I am just concerned with the dwindling numbers of pure test drivers will we be burning out that very small group.

Amen.

I am leaning very strongly toward requiring all tuners to also be test drivers. And yes, this may discourage some tuners from entering.

I completely agree. As a tuner, I would hope to get feedback from at least 3 people in a shootout I enter. Therefore I think in the end this kind of approach will benefit both tuners and testers.

 

[VTiRoj]

The Caterham shootout isn't going to start testing until after the 86 shootout ends. Should we just advise future one-off shootouts to wait until the previous one has ended? I'd imagine we could have a system where we've got a nice stream of one-off shootouts and then the big FITT events can have a little more breathing room.

 

[XDesperado67]

Not sure what's happened the last month. We had things rolling along pretty steady and then all of a sudden we get all these "quickie" Shootouts popping up. Nothing wrong with them and yes they can be a great counter to and time filler to the more involved events.
Guess what I'm thinking is maybe we should set up a separate category and try getting people to schedule the "quickie" one offs as well. That way we don't wind up like currently where there are three or four different events all taking place nearly simultaneously. We're having trouble getting test drivers as it is. Then throw several different events up at the same time and you get chaos. F.I.T.T. can't keep people from doing events whenever they want, but we can encourage people to get in some sort of order so the participation and fun is better for all events.

Granted my current FF Shootout isn't to everyone's tastes and I have no problem with that, but I do feel it's gotten a bit shortchanged because of other events distracting people from participating in it more.

Anyways I plan on updating the OP with new F.I.T.T. members and the upcoming events list here in the next couple days. Anyone that wants added to either please PM me the info, I'll be going back over the last few pages but might miss something.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Should FITT create some guidelines for quickie events? It looks to me that the current quickies look alot like the larger events and will require the same amount of time for the testers to complete? Maybe these should be limited to one course and maybe the shorter courses (Grand Valley East, Autum Ring Mini, High Speed Ring, etc.)? I like the idea that the quickies are one car or car type and I like that the Toyota event was limitited to 10 tuners (but multiple tunes per tuner?).

 

[Onboy123]

The Caterham shootout isn't going to start testing until after the 86 shootout ends. Should we just advise future one-off shootouts to wait until the previous one has ended? I'd imagine we could have a system where we've got a nice stream of one-off shootouts and then the big FITT events can have a little more breathing room.

And then there's your, frankly, immense TCV0.5 to take into account as well. Scheduling this is going to just keep getting more complicated, it seems.

Maybe we should impose a limit as to how many mini shootouts can occur at any one time when a sanctioned one is running? Like say…1 F.I.T.T event takes a full month or so to be complete, so towards the end of the month (say from the 19th/20th onwards of said month), a small quickie can be started up to keep both sides driving?

 

[CSLACR]

I think participation will handle the problem if people continue trying to run 4 shootouts simultaneously, I believe that's why we were running on a schedule in the first place.

In any case, sign me up for "next next". (whenever that may be)
I'll have some details to add for it in the next few days months leading up till when I can finally have it.

The one detail I do have, is it will use all versions of Twin Ring Motegi before it's completed,(2 rounds) which will both be completed in one month. (One week tuning/testing for each round)
I'll be testing for that "perfect" PP range car/type over TRM in the upcoming days.

 

[VTiRoj]

And then there's your, frankly, immense TCV0.5 to take into account as well. Scheduling this is going to just keep getting more complicated, it seems.

Maybe we should impose a limit as to how many mini shootouts can occur at any one time when a sanctioned one is running? Like say…1 F.I.T.T event takes a full month or so to be complete, so towards the end of the month (say from the 19th/20th onwards of said month), a small quickie can be started up to keep both sides driving?

Yeah but I'm not rushing it out. I'll happily wait for things to settle first.

The entire appeal of these one-off/mini shootouts is that anyone can start them up without consulting F.I.T.T first. It's like racing in a car park without consulting the local autocross club. Instead of turning them into F.I.T.T events, I think a simple "could you possibly postpone this until X event ends? You'll get more test drivers as a result" would suffice.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I wasn't thinking that we tell others that they cannot host non FITT events. Rather I was thinking that when someone does start one up we can offer up a list of quickie event guidelines for success - suggestions.

 

[SolidSnake7735]

I wasn't thinking that we tell others that they cannot host non FITT events. Rather I was thinking that when someone does start one up we can offer up a list of quickie event guidelines for success - suggestions.

That's a gesture I'm sure we can appreciate. I certainly would. As for that little tournament I'm hosting, It's not a FITT-Sanctioned event, as it's not exactly geared towards tuners or test drivers but as a window to the touge scene for anyone interested.

 

[Motor City Hami]

While looking through PP levels for the upcoming Rally and Street tuning competition, I noticed the lack of rally tunes from GT Planet. According to Adrenaline's list, there are only 18 rally cars with tunes out of the 33 available rally cars. Counting multiple tunes per car, there are only 35 total tunes. I looked a little deeper and there are only two tunes posted in 2012. Most are from August of 2011 or older. That means that nearly all of the posted rally tunes are from before game patch 1.12. There are a total of three tunes posted since the spec 2.0 patch. This is quite a gap!

Looking forward to this competition. I think this will provide quite a service to the under served rally crowd.

The approved car pairings for the Rally and Street competition: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7282790#post7282790

 

[CSLACR]

Also when I say feedback, I mean legit feedback. Not "it understeers".

Well...

It is, but not everyone knows how to blind tune on the fly. For normal feedback, describing the behavior of the car is enough. The tuner can make adjustments based on that alone. 👍

What if it understeers?

 

[Ronald6]

So this is the thread I've been missing!

@CSLACR:
When does it understeer: entry, mid- or corner exit? What helps? Trail-breaking? False-entry? Dropping a gear?
On what kind of corner does it understeer? Low speed sweeping? High speed Euler?
The better the test driver the better feedback he'll give you. The larger a testers vocabulary the better the description he can give.

Speaking of which: anyone interested in helping me with a Drivers and Tuners Dictionary? Standardized definitions would help everybody.

I apologize for not asking for permission for my Caterham Fireblade Shootout. I've heard this thread mentioned but never visited.