FITT - Moving on to GT6!

[MrGrado]

I made a nice tune of a 430 scud at 460PP but it's power to weight is terrible. It is something like 200kg heavier than an NSX and 40hp lower. It also has none of the aero fitted.

the ACR viper has 50/50 weight distribution and is heavy. Even after weight reduction, 200kg balast is not enough to achieve 40/60 or 60/40 weight distribution. It would also have poor power to weight at 460PP.

Lots of cars that have 50/50 weight distribution will not get to required weight balance if the are too heavy to start with.

 

[CSLACR]

I don't think any of the cars with front aero would be competitive at 460PP, probably useless to ban them at all.

60/40 40/60 sounds decent, this is drivetrain unlimited, yes?
Might make for evening drive train layouts nicely.

 

[nomis3613]

I made a nice tune of a 430 scud at 460PP but it's power to weight is terrible. It is something like 200kg heavier than an NSX and 40hp lower. It also has none of the aero fitted.

I don't think any of the cars with front aero would be competitive at 460PP, probably useless to ban them at all.

Yeah, all the aero cars I've tested haven't been much good down at 460PP.

60/40 40/60 sounds decent, this is drivetrain unlimited, yes?
Might make for evening drive train layouts nicely.

Yep, unlimited. Hopefully it brings out a good variety of cars and drivetrains (I'm secretly hoping to see some Rufs and perhaps even someone try to tame the Stratos)

 

[DigitalBaka]

Just an FYI-ish thinger:

I've updated the FITT calendar, which is hosted on my Google account for the time being. It can be accessed here:

https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=ipi3najs3eiv53p4rs7tknrdtg@group.calendar.google.com

It should show in GMT. If you have a Google account it is shared to be able to add it to your own calendar or you can just use that link as a permanent access. Harv can pop it up in the OP and I will attempt to keep it as up to date as possible so nobody misses a deadline.

 

[nomis3613]

Looking at DigitalBaka's excellent calendar, can I please book in 9th July to 2nd August for the "60/40, 40/60, 460PP tuning challenge"? I am totally happy if other challenges are scheduled at the same time, in fact a smaller comp will make it easier for my first time organising one.

Can I please sign up for FITT as "nomis3613// nomis3613 // Car Reviewer/Test Driver" (hopefully Event Sponsor sometime soon...)? How do I get the event "FITT sanctioned"?

Cheers,
Simon

 

[trackripper123]

The 60/40 idea sounds great. 👍 I'm definitely in for that one.

 

[looksharp]

Hi is there any place for specific tunes for specific cars

 

[dr_slump]

Hi is there any place for specific tunes for specific cars

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198751

 

[CyKosis1973]

Looking at DigitalBaka's excellent calendar, can I please book in 9th July to 2nd August for the "60/40, 40/60, 460PP tuning challenge"? I am totally happy if other challenges are scheduled at the same time, in fact a smaller comp will make it easier for my first time organising one.

Can I please sign up for FITT as "nomis3613// nomis3613 // Car Reviewer/Test Driver" (hopefully Event Sponsor sometime soon...)? How do I get the event "FITT sanctioned"?

Cheers,
Simon

Morning Simon, I can't comment on the calendar arrangements, as I can't view Google Docs from work. In order to become FITT sanctioned, I don't think you need to do anything more than discuss/arrange your Event here (as you have already done) and adopt the standardised rule set in POST 2 (tailored to suit your Event). POST 3 details all current and past Events, so you can see how individuals have adopted the rule set to suit their shootouts.

I'm sure xDee will be along soon enough to add your details to the front page too 👍

{Cy}

PS - These rules have been put together "by committee", so if you think there is something that should be added/amended, then please put it out there for debate

 

[nomis3613]

Thanks, CyKosis.

Guys, here is the first draft of my rules, if you could take a look and suggest any improvements, that would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Tuners
1) Enter the competition by posting here, saying that you would like to sign up as a tuner. Tuners may also be testers.
2) Pick one street car (no RM or racing cars) to enter into the competition. There are no restrictions on drivetrain, but the following cars are can't be used: Suzuki GSX-R/4, Honda NSX, Lotus Esprit and Lotus Evora.
3) Add ballast if necessary (there is no limit) to achieve either 40/60 or 60/40 weight distribution. (To save time picking a car, here is a tip on achieving 60/40 or 40/60: the maximum weight possible for a car that starts off with 50/50 weight distribution is approx 800 kg and the maximum weight possible for a car that starts off with 55/45 or 45/55 is approx 1400 kg)
4) Fit sports soft tyres and tune car to 460PP for tracks XXX and YYY. Keep in mind the scoring system and the conditions for testing (both below). If front downforce is adjustable, it must be set to the minimum. Full use of the power limiter is allowed. Also, ABS and controller sensitivity settings can be specified as part of the tune.
5) By 19 July (00:00 GMT), post your tune and send a PM with a link to nomis3613 when it is ready (so that it can be linked in <this post>).
6) Make sure your car has driven at least 320 km, then place it on sharing by 19 July (00:00 GMT). There are no rules regarding oil change, however it is not testers responsibility to ensure the car does not lose hp, therefore you might like to ensure it has fresh oil...
7) By 21 July (00:00 GMT), ensure that all testers in your group are on your friends list. It is your responsibility to send Friend Requests, please send a PM to nomis3613 if a tester has not accepted the FR by this deadline.
8) Have fun! Tester results will be posted by 2 August and scores will be posted a few days after.

Testers
1) Enter the competition (please!!! we are always looking for more testers) by filling in the "tester signup" below and posting it here. Testers may also be tuners. There are up to 8 cars in each group. Tester signup closes 19 July (00:00 GMT).
Tester signup
PSN:
Maximum number of groups you can test:
If necessary, can you test the "grand final" group in early/mid August:

2) Accept Friend Requests from tuners in your group. If a tuner has not sent you a Friend Request by 21 July (00:00 GMT), please send a PM to nomis3613. Please do not test tunes before 19 July, in case a tuner decides to revise his/her tune before the deadline.
3) From 19 July, test all cars in your group. If you don't test all cars in a group, unfortunately your results can't be counted (all tunes need to be tested by the same testers for the results to be fair). Use offline practice mode, with real grip reduction and tyre wear/fuel consumption off. All driving aids must be off, except ABS. Use ABS 1 and controller sensitivity 0 unless the tuner specifies otherwise.
4) By 2 August, post all results in a single post using the template below (feel free to add results as you go by editing the post) and send nomis3613 a PM with a link to the post (so that it can be linked in <this post>).
Tester results
Track XXX best laptime:
Track YYY best laptime:
Drivers choice points (out of 10):
Comments:

5) Have fun! (and many thanks for helping with testing)

Fine Print
Play nice! Discussion and banter is welcomed, but arguing or abusive comments will not be tolerated (you will be disqualified from the competition and, if appropriate, reported to GT Planet moderators). Every effort will be made to have a fair competition, but it's only a videogame, so it's not worth getting annoyed about.

If you have any questions, please ask. Please note that I (nomis3613) can't access GT Planet at work. I will try to catch up with the thread at least once a day, but please be patient.

Test drivers please ensure that all tunes are tested in the most similar conditions possible. In extreme circumstances, you may be asked to re-test to check your laptime for a tune.

The scoring works as follows:
total score = track XXX score + track YYY score + drivers choice score

All laptimes are based on the average of all testers. For track XXX, the fastest tune will get 10 points. Points for other tunes are based on this formula, where X is the fastest laptime (in seconds) and Y is your laptime:
track XXX score = 10 - 4*(Y-X) (the minimum score is zero, ie no negative scores will be used)

For track YYY, the fastest tune will get 10 points. Points for other tunes are based on this formula, where X is the fastest laptime and Y is your laptime:
track YYY score = 10 - 8*(Y-X) (the minimum score is zero, ie no negative scores will be used)

The drivers choice points will be the average of all testers scores (out of 10).


Just to repeat a very important rule: have fun!

 

[CyKosis1973]

Looks good Simon 👍 I like the subtle change to the scoring system too...

{Cy}

 

[trackripper123]

Power limiter?
Also I don't quite get the scoring system, is it necessary?

I don't mean to criticise, I'm just curious.

 

[nomis3613]

Power limiter?
Also I don't quite get the scoring system, is it necessary?

Woops, I meant "power limiter" when I said "engine limiter". Thanks.

Yeah, the scoring is a bit complex, the two main reasons for it are to consider
- the time difference rather than just the position. This is to avoid someone scoring more points because their lap happens to be 0.001 seconds quicker and also to reward tunes that are much quicker than others. Using "1st = 10 points, 2nd = 9 points, etc" neglects this.
- that if a track XXX is double the length of track YYY, then (all things being equal) the gap between times will be double at XXX.

Here's an example of how it works.
Track YYY:
Driver A: 50.00 = 10 points
Driver B: 50.25 = 8 points
Driver C: 50.27 = 8 points
Driver D: 51.00 = 2 points

Track XXX:
Driver A: 1:50.00 = 10 points
Driver B: 1:50.25 = 9 points
Driver C: 1:50.50 = 8 points
Driver D: 1:52.00 = 2 points

(by the way, I'll adjust the multipliers for tracks XXX and YYY to suit the lengths of the tracks once they are chosen...and looking at the examples above I think 8 and 4 are too high anyway)

Hope this explains things. I'm not worried if some people don't understand the subtlety of maths, in the end really only the person working out the scores needs to understand how it works. 💡

 

[DigitalBaka]

Interesting scoring system, I kinda like that, but I'm a geek. If we are able to get that dialed in I'd like to see more sponsors use it for time-based portions of events.

Rest looks pretty good as well: you've covered mileage, oil, ballast, limiter, tires and your unique restriction. The banning of those certain cars may not go smoothly at first but without going into crazy restrictions that may be the best way to keep the blowout cars on the sideline.

While not strictly necessary, perhaps touch on drivetrain. I think you mentioned drivetrain would be open but a point in the rules should help stop the question from popping up...mostly.

 

[nomis3613]

Thanks for the tip, DigitalBaka, I'll add a note about drivetrain.

Interesting scoring system, I kinda like that, but I'm a geek. If we are able to get that dialed in I'd like to see more sponsors use it for time-based portions of events.

Thanks, I just hope it works!

 

[Motor City Hami]

Is Digital Baka up next with his challenge or am I with my Rally Cars and Street Versions. I am 99% ready to go with mine. Just need to finish the write up and post my scoring system. I will following the time 1 plus time 2 plus driver's choice, but have a really cool math formula that uses the time differences rather than position differences. For example, if the fastest car runs 1:54.001 and the 2nd fastest runs 1:54.500 and everyone else is slower that 1:55, shouldn't #2 get almost the same amount of points as #1.

Should I post my challenge now or wait until after DB?

 

[Indy Racerfan]

Hey X thinking of starting up CKR V2 again, just waiting to hear back from my gang of hoodlums to see if they're interested and then maybe I'll get to add to FITT shootouts etc.

Indy

 

[CyKosis1973]

Holy 🤬, INDY..!! Long time, no see, Sir. Hope you're well and in the rudest of health...

{Cy}

 

[DigitalBaka]

If you are ready then you can jump ahead of me, Hami. I'm still working out some of the important stuff with the cars so if you are good I have no problem waiting.

Indy! Good to see you back around these parts! Hope all is well with you. Now we just need Cry back and we're just about back to the old crew.

 

[Motor City Hami]

If you are ready then you can jump ahead of me, Hami. I'm still working out some of the important stuff with the cars so if you are good I have no problem waiting.

Looks like X's competiton may have a round two? Not sure when his is expected to wrap so I don't think I want to start mine until he's done. It's ready.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Gents, please excuse the "cold call" nature of this, but could I ask a few of you to head to this thread and perhaps fill out a form for me..??

Requests Suspension Cheat Sheet FWD Understeer Questionnaire

Thanks,
{Cy}

 

[Motor City Hami]

My Rally Car vs Street Versions is ready to go. I am going to wait. Things seem to be all over the place right now in the tuning forum with challenges.

X's FF Challenge round one not done and there's a round two?
Scion challenge
500PP street car challenge


I'm just going to wait. It's going to be epic, but you'll just have to wait.

 

[krenkme]

My Rally Car vs Street Versions is ready to go. I am going to wait. Things seem to be all over the place right now in the tuning forum with challenges.

X's FF Challenge round one not done and there's a round two?
Scion challenge
500PP street car challenge

I'm just going to wait. It's going to be epic, but you'll just have to wait.

Good call 👍. With all of the quick shootouts that sprouted up a good FITT shootout should take it's time.

Looking forward to it Hami

EDIT= not saying the FF is not good. It is very fun 👍. Looking forward to round two.... if I make it

 

[DigitalBaka]

It's good we've spawned these interesting shootouts. This is sort of what I envisioned when we started all this. We set a few big events and people set up more on their own using FITT as a sort of template even if it isn't "sponsored" by FITT. It will be interesting to see what sort of participation there is with three going at once now.

Looking forward to your epic rally business there Hami. If its half as exciting as it seems it will be great.

I'll tentatively pit my world challenge in for late in the year...November or December. I also need to start looking at what could be done with the roadster shootout this year.

 

[XDesperado67]

The biggest issue we've always had with events, and why I've tried to schedule things with little to no overlap, is the lack of Test Drivers.
Even on shorter courses and only giving each tune 3-5 laps Testing can eat up a lot of time.
Many people are either unwilling or unable to commit the needed time for testing. Not a knock on anyone just the way it is.

Hoping to have my FF Shootout wrapped up in about a week and a half...

 

[Motor City Hami]

Just a taste. I have built almost all of these to compare PP levels and build limitations. Plus I have a wildly different scoring system that should keep things super close. There is even a Clueless rule.

Eligible Car Pairings:
Premium Rally Cars - Street Version
Citroen C4 WRC '08 - C4 Coupe 2.0VTS '05
Ford Focus RS WRC 07 '08 - Focus ST '06
Subaru Impreza WRC 2008 - Impreza WRX Sti '07
Suzuki SX4 WRC '08 - Swift Sport '07
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) &#8217;95 - Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) &#8216;98

Standard Rally Cars - Street Version
Citroën Xsara Rally Car &#8217;99 - Xsara VTR '03
Ford Escort Rally Car &#8217;98 - Focus ST170 '03
Ford FocuRally Car &#8217;99 - Focus RS '02
Ford RS200 Rally Car &#8217;85 - RS200 '84
Lancia DELTA S4 Rally Car &#8217;85 - Audi Quattro '82
Lancia DELTA HF Integrale Rally Car &#8217;92 - DELTA HF Integrale Evoluzione '91
Lancia STRATORally Car &#8217;77 - Stratos '73
Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car - CZ-3 Tarmac '01
Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car &#8217;74 - Lancer 1600 GSR '74
Mitsubishi STARION 4WD Rally Car &#8217;84 - Mitsubishi Lancer EX 1800GSR IC Turbo 83
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV Rally Car &#8217;97 - Lancer Evolution IV GSR '96
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI Rally Car &#8217;99 - Lancer Evolution VI GSR T.M. SCP '99
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Super Rally Car &#8217;03 - Lancer Evolution VIII GSR '03
Nissan 240RS Rally Car &#8217;85 - SILVIA 240RS (S110) '83
Nissan BLUEBIRD Rally Car (510) &#8217;69 - BLUEBIRD 1600 Deluxe (510) '69
Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 Evolution 2 Rally Car &#8217;86 - 05 Turbo 16 '85
Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 Rally Car &#8217;85 - 05 Turbo 16 '85
Peugeot 206 Rally Car &#8217;99 - 206 S16 '99
Renault 5 Maxi Turbo Rally Car &#8217;85 - 5 Turbo '80
Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car &#8217;99 - IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version VI '99
Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car &#8217;01 - IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version '00
Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car Prototype &#8217;01 - IMPREZA WRX STi Prodrive Style '01
Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car &#8217;03 - IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi '02
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST185) &#8217;95 - Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR RC (ST185) &#8216;91
Toyota COROLLA Rally Car &#8217;98 - COROLLA RUNX Z AEROTOURER '02
Toyota RSC Rally Raid Car - RSC '01

Banned Rally Cars
Mitsubishi PAJERO Evolution Rally Raid Car &#8217;03 - no matching street car
Mitsubishi PAJERO Rally Raid Car &#8217;85 - no matching street car

 

[nomis3613]

Sorry to be a hassle, but could I please get a date in the FITT calendar for my "60/40, 40/60 460PP challenge"?

It's ready to roll now, of course I'm happy to wait my turn behind those who got in before me.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I think we need to start promoting our competitions more, outside of the tuning forum and on other GT5 sites. Our list of test drivers is getting really small. We either have to find new people looking to join the fun or start making testing a requirement for tuner sign up. I started this thread in an attempt to get things rolling. I think we should use it as a promotional place to lead people back to the FITT tuning forum threads. We need to post updates over there and invite test drivers for each of our future events.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7285200#post7285200

I also think we need to start posting links in other GT5 sites. Thoughts?

 

[nomis3613]

start making testing a requirement for tuner sign up

Good idea. It could well come to this. Very few people actually want to be a tester, it's more done as a favour so I think advertising alone would bring in a heap more tuners not testers.

On another note, there are currently at least 3 tuning challenges running, all with involvement from FITT people. I thought the plan was to run one at a time (in order to improve the number of testers)?

Also, I think FITT events should have "FITT" in the thread title, so that people can easily see that this is a quality shootout, not some hastily conceived shemozle

 

[Motor City Hami]

I think it could work to split all of the challenges into two groups. All tuners are required to test the group that they are not part of.