FITT - Moving on to GT6!

[TruGenTimeless]

How can I get testers to try out my set-ups? I spend a good amount of time tuning cars on the Nurburgring and most of my times that I've ran can come close to the under 8 min mark using Soft Sport tires.

 

[Onboy123]

Depending, really. If you've got a car which is tuned for a competition, you wait until they drive it and post their feedback. If you're tuning the car for yourself and just want feedback, go PM some tuners (Praiano's always willing to help…aren't you, fishy? ) and they'll give you some feedback as to what needs to be done.

 

[Motor City Hami]

It looks like my Wagon-SUV competition is now set to end on March 29th. Who's next? Seems like a launch on April fools day is in order. That feels like a Clueless tunes date if I ever heard of one.

 

[krenkme]

It looks like my Wagon-SUV competition is now set to end on March 29th. Who's next? Seems like a launch on April fools day is in order. That feels like a Clueless tunes date if I ever heard of one.

yeah that would be a date for us at Clueless .

Thing is though, I am in the middle of selling my business and starting a new job (time for someone else to make the decisions about finance ). I still have time to play, but setting up and running a shootout may be hard to do at this time.... but I'll still see what I could do

 

[DigitalBaka]

I think we can try out ACS' idea next. Should provide a wealth of feedback and may entice testers since they aren't tied to any one or two tracks.

Testing for mine will be fairly intense so I may wait until summer when we might be able to catch more people with more time, if I decide to move with it at all.

We could do some events based solely on one drive train as we've done with FFs twice. Maybe next we could do FR or RR/MR for a switch.

 

[VTiRoj]

This idea?

Is the next shootout already spoken for ? If not I have an idea for one where the testers can choose any track to test the cars as long as they use the same track for all cars. This would make it interesting for tuners knowing that they would need to tune a car to work well at all tracks. We can still use drivers choice and the speed would be averaged by the order each tester drove them from fastest to slowest.

Yeah that'd be cool. 👍

 

[xande1959]

this idea?


Yeah that'd be cool. 👍

different circuits with variable would be interesting and climates.challenging.we would need a lot of work.

 

[iainoflo85]

Yeah, I would still like to test on that one - not sure which track I would choose yet. But may just end up being Trial Mountain.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

If I am allowed to test with ABS 0, I would be interested - some of my favorite tracks for testing would be any one of these : Trial Mountain Reverse, Daytona Road Course, Madrid, London, Laguna Seca.

 

[trackripper123]

If I am allowed to test with ABS 0, I would be interested - some of my favorite tracks for testing would be any one of these : Trial Mountain Reverse, Daytona Road Course, Madrid, London, Laguna Seca.

I doubt it to be honest, pretty much all of us tune and test with ABS 1. I know at least I can't even drive with ABS 0, let alone get consistent results to base my tuning off.

 

[VTiRoj]

different circuits with variable would be interesting and climates.challenging.we would need a lot of work.

Challenge makes for a good shootout.

I doubt it to be honest, pretty much all of us tune and test with ABS 1. I know at least I can't even drive with ABS 0, let alone get consistent results to base my tuning off.

Then maybe it's time for an ABS 0 shootout? 💡

 

[trackripper123]

Then maybe it's time for an ABS 0 shootout? 💡

Dear god.

 

[xande1959]

Dear god.

which tire manufactures. to meet. Let's burn a lot in this virtual asphalt tire

 

[Johnnypenso]

ABS = 0 sounds great, although without a wheel it's awfully tough to do without a massive amount of practice and reprogramming of buttons and such.

If you do go with it, I'd suggest slower cars on harder tires. No ABS is much easier at 400 on CS tires than it is on at 550 on SS etc. Also much easier on Monza with mostly straightline, flat track braking vs Trial Mountain with it's undulations and cambered track. Undulations and/or camber require much finer control. Depends on the level of challenge you want.

Drivetrain is also a consideration. With FF's it's actually helpful to have noABS in most cars and more difficult to lock up the tires due to more weight being on the braking tires. MR's and RR's are the most difficult as mistakes in overbraking are more severely punished.

No ABS also offers up more varied tuning options regarding brake balance. With ABS on there isn't much difference with one tick of the brakes here or there. With ABS off one tick can make a world of difference. The difference between 3/0 and 3/1 can be huge in many corners and require a different entry combination of brake and throttle. It also offers up the possibility of using more trailing throttle to to control the rear end and therefore use more agressive brake balances, favouring the back end.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

ABS = 0 sounds great, although without a wheel it's awfully tough to do without a massive amount of practice and reprogramming of buttons and such.

If you do go with it, I'd suggest slower cars on harder tires. No ABS is much easier at 400 on CS tires than it is on at 550 on SS etc. Also much easier on Monza with mostly straightline, flat track braking vs Trial Mountain with it's undulations and cambered track. Undulations and/or camber require much finer control. Depends on the level of challenge you want.

Drivetrain is also a consideration. With FF's it's actually helpful to have noABS in most cars and more difficult to lock up the tires due to more weight being on the braking tires. MR's and RR's are the most difficult as mistakes in overbraking are more severely punished.

No ABS also offers up more varied tuning options regarding brake balance. With ABS on there isn't much difference with one tick of the brakes here or there. With ABS off one tick can make a world of difference. The difference between 3/0 and 3/1 can be huge in many corners and require a different entry combination of brake and throttle. It also offers up the possibility of using more trailing throttle to to control the rear end and therefore use more agressive brake balances, favouring the back end.

Those are true, we should have a range of cars and tracks that could help driving with ABS 0 less frustrating and enjoyable, but even then I don't think there will be many people interested and willing to have a go at no ABS event, maybe only me With practice and willingness one can drive well with ABS 0, I am using stick and I managed to do a clean lap at Spa with this ( 800+HP FR Twin Turbo Monster ) :

 

[Motor City Hami]

Anyone interested in a quick FITT one car mini competition? Two classes:

Yellow Bird 533PP (that's stock power and weight with engine rebuild/oil change) on sport softs

Yellow Bird fully maxed 595PP on racing softs

 

[trackripper123]

Urgh Yellow Bird. I have attempted before, was lucky to escape in one piece.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Urgh Yellow Bird. I have attempted before, was lucky to escape in one piece.

I have attempted five times and was never happy with the tunes, so never posted them. I just need to finish one and post it. Might be for an interesting quick challenge?

 

[trackripper123]

I have attempted five times and was never happy with the tunes, so never posted them. I just need to finish one and post it. Might be for an interesting quick challenge?

Perhaps. I'll see what I can do with it, if I'm not happy I won't enter though I'm afraid.

 

[Johnnypenso]

How is this for a wacky challenge? A fast lap, standard vs. hybrid challenge to see if hybrids really can be built that can challenge the fastest "standard tuned" car at a given track. Okay, before you stone me or cover me in tar and feathers, hear me out.

The biggest issue as I see it with hybrids, outside of the "moral" issue of cheating, is that they may have an unfair advantage. I've built a few so far, grabbed a few from other people, and have yet to find any car that's faster than my best laps at the tracks I usually test at. The PP system does seem to work with hybrids when it comes to downforce, grip multipliers, power multipliers, chassis swaps, engine swaps etc. That is, so long as you stay within the normal power ranges associated with given PP levels. Yes you can break the PP system by adding outrageous power levels but leave that aside for the moment.

A properly structured FITT tuning contest could determine whether Hybrids can actually be put together to challenge say a 111R at Autumn Ring Reverse. Deciding this question could once and for all put to rest the uncertainty as to what is and what isn't possible with hybrids, at least so far as this particular test is concerned. It could help to put to rest the many arguments about what can and can't be done with hybrids and whether losing to a hybrid is because of driving and skill or simply because the car is faster.

Something to think about, I think it has some great possibilities, and might actually help to bring the two sides of the issue together in friendly competition.

 

[trackripper123]

Depends how much access said tuners doing hybrids have access to the game code...? I mean, could they not easily add, say 50hp more to their cars while keeping the PP the same, by tweaking the coding? I'm not too sure how it all works...

 

[Onboy123]

Nope, as far as that's concerned, PP hasn't been directly hacked yet. The only way to get that effect is to add stupid levels of power (I think it's 50+k hp or so…whatever that -ve PP X1 has), and that alone would corrupt the car from being competitive.

And just to be sure, we should use a handling focused track like Autumn Ring so that there's no real point in dumping an LMP engine into a Range Rover.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Every changes that affected performance in a hybrid car also affect PP as PP is calculated in game from save data content. There's no way to change PP to any desired value, the game decides that according your car's stats. Increasing grip on tires increases PP just like increasing downforce does. Swapping chassis and engine will change PP according their respective PP value - each part of the car has certain PP value.

The only problem is that PP calculation some times goes weird when too much power applied on an inferior chassis. The more power it has, the PP will decrease, just like non hybrid Lister Storm race car. The car will be very difficult to drive fast, example is my Devil Z replica with stock chassis, when it reach over certain HP, around 630+, the PP will start to decrease, putting more weight ballast to the rear actually increases PP.

 

[trackripper123]

Ahh I see, in that case things could be interesting. I thought they'd worked out how to directly hack PP too, in which case the shootout would be completely pointless.

 

[DigitalBaka]

So it looks like, while not necessarily official FITT events, we do have a couple things running right now. Look for the no aid challenge right now plus one other, which doesn't seem to have any kind of structure right now. The no aid seems to incorporate Hami's Yellowbird idea as well as the no ABS idea we have discussed lately. Please try to drum up some support for this as I think testers may be in short supply.

And just to be sure, we should use a handling focused track like Autumn Ring so that there's no real point in dumping an LMP engine into a Range Rover.

I feel if anyone out there is going to do this...it would be krenkme. He already has enough room to add a second engine in the cargo area of his hollowed out 'Stormer...

 

[krenkme]

*Arranges soap box on corner*

I will first address the no ABS crowd.
In this game people want/need to set themselves apart from the rest. So true in the tuning forum. Some like to tune all car, some the odd balls, some only to fit a style... ect. But the no ABS I never understood. Run an event with classic cars, sure they didn't have ABS then, or a race car event would be in the same boat. But telling people to turn off the ABS in a modern car (a tuning options that is there for you...a forced option) makes no sense to me. Most modern cars have ABS, and an option to turn off the traction control, but if you think turning off (disabling the ABS) make you a better tuner/driver, I just don't get. If I run a modern GTR and turn off the ABS, that's not skill/tuning, that's just silly. Now before I get the group of "have you ever" or "it takes skill", I do understand (I raced sportsman and vintage road cars in real life ), but to purposely take it away from a car I will never understand... hard into a corner and hope it sticks !

On to the hybrids.
This game has alot to offer, and yes we would all like more, but putting a Viper engine on the chassis of a R8, with the body of a S300 just does not appeal to me. Sorry.

(Disclaimer... I've been away for a while, and may be a little on edge do to real life things that will happen soon, so sorry for my non normal happy banter... end disclaimer )

*steps off soapbox *

I feel if anyone out there is going to do this...it would be krenkme. He already has enough room to add a second engine in the cargo area of his hollowed out 'Stormer...

Oh, I think I may have scared off some testers ... anyone that wants to cheat hybrid the car, have at it.

 

[VTiRoj]

I think driving without ABS only makes you a better tuner/driver with ABS:0 cars. When you go back to ABS:1 or whatever, you're not carrying over any new techniques because they don't apply anymore.

That said, it is fun to lock a tyre up on corner entry.

 

[trackripper123]

That said, it is fun to lock a tyre up on corner entry.

That's all I ever do with ABS:0.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Depends how much access said tuners doing hybrids have access to the game code...? I mean, could they not easily add, say 50hp more to their cars while keeping the PP the same, by tweaking the coding? I'm not too sure how it all works...

Nope, as far as that's concerned, PP hasn't been directly hacked yet. The only way to get that effect is to add stupid levels of power (I think it's 50+k hp or so…whatever that -ve PP X1 has), and that alone would corrupt the car from being competitive.

And just to be sure, we should use a handling focused track like Autumn Ring so that there's no real point in dumping an LMP engine into a Range Rover.

Ahh I see, in that case things could be interesting. I thought they'd worked out how to directly hack PP too, in which case the shootout would be completely pointless.

. That is, so long as you stay within the normal power ranges associated with given PP levels. Yes you can break the PP system by adding outrageous power levels but leave that aside for the moment.

The usage of excess power to "break" the PP system is easy to control, just put a limit on HP or we can figure out some reasonable scale for weight and HP. You might go with 450 hp for example at 500PP, which should cover most cars. The sytem doesn't break until you get into massive hp, which is easily excluded. If you can get 2500 HP around the track on SM tires in a competitive time, more power to ya, but that's not what this is about.

The purpose would be to discover if by fiddling with the various elements you can come up with a combination that defeats the best car(s) at a given PP level. Why? Because if you can't, then hybriding is just for fun and provides no real advantage on the track. If that's the case, then who cares if someone hybrids or not, it becomes a non-issue from a competition standpoint.

In fact, if you look at it with an open mind, and PD does nothing about it, giving a virtual stamp of approval to it, then it might actually be beneficial from a competitive standpoint. One of the complaints of the PP system that PD so haphazardly tried to fix a couple of months back, is that only a handful of cars are truly competitive at a given PP/tire combination. If people can find ways to monkey with a 69' Vette or an 89 300 zx and make it a competitive car in a race with an Evora and an RX8, without gaining an advantage on those already fast cars, I see that as a benefit to the game, not a hindrance.

*Arranges soap box on corner*

I will first address the no ABS crowd.
In this game people want/need to set themselves apart from the rest. So true in the tuning forum. Some like to tune all car, some the odd balls, some only to fit a style... ect. But the no ABS I never understood. Run an event with classic cars, sure they didn't have ABS then, or a race car event would be in the same boat. But telling people to turn off the ABS in a modern car (a tuning options that is there for you...a forced option) makes no sense to me. Most modern cars have ABS, and an option to turn off the traction control, but if you think turning off (disabling the ABS) make you a better tuner/driver, I just don't get. If I run a modern GTR and turn off the ABS, that's not skill/tuning, that's just silly. Now before I get the group of "have you ever" or "it takes skill", I do understand (I raced sportsman and vintage road cars in real life ), but to purposely take it away from a car I will never understand... hard into a corner and hope it sticks !

*steps off soapbox

So when you slip into that virtual GTR do you always leave on traction control and ASM? Probably not I'm guessing. Modern cars have all kinds of aids that we also don't use for the most part within the game generally and in tuning contests. Traction and stability controls (ASM?) are standard features on many modern cars, and yet we turn them off in the game because they detract from the experience or make it too easy. Taking off ABS is no different. Without ABS the game is much more immersive and to get around the track with any speed, you need to be on your toes constantly, fine tuning your steering, braking and shifting inputs far more judiciously compared to running with ABS. I don't advocate everyone doing it, play the game how you want to play it has always been my view. I tried running without ABS a few times and never got the hang of it, but when I did, man what a sense of accomplishment!!!! But I believe it's a false logic to say that because modern cars come with ABS it's silly to turn it off, otherwise we'd all have traction control on and our street cars would probably never see sports tires, let alone racing tires.

 

[Motor City Hami]

We still have listed as a future FITT Challenge a tuner car event. If there is any interest, I can host it. Or is GT5 pretty much over? This car list should be enough to attract a few test drivers. I haven't gone through to set the PP limit(s) yet, but here is the list of tuner cars. Let me know if I missed any and if there is any interest.

AEM S2000
Amuse Carbon R
Amuse NISMO 380RS Super Leggera
Amuse S2000 GT1 '04
Amuse S2000 GT1 Turbo
Amuse S2000 R1 '04
Amuse S2000 Street Version '04
Blitz Dunlop ER34 Skyline '07
Blitz ER34 D1 Spec '04
Callaway C12 '03
Gran Turismo 350Z RS
Grand Touring Garage 1970 Ford Mustang Trans-Cammer
HKS CT230R '08
HKS Genki Hyper Silvia RS2 '04
HPA Motorsports FT565 twin turbo Audi TT
HPA Motorsports Stage II R32
High End Performance G37
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 base '06
Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R V-spec N1 base '00
Mine's Lancer Evolution VI '00
Mugen S2000 '00
Nismo 270R '94
Nismo 400R '96
Nismo Fairlady Z S-tune (Z33) '02
Nismo Fairlady Z Z-tune (Z33) '03
Nismo GT-R Road Going Version '95
Nismo Skyline GT-R R-tune (R34) '99
Nismo Skyline GT-R S-tune (R32) '00
Opera Performance 350Z '04
Opera Performance S2000 '04
RUF 3400S '00
RUF BTR '86
RUF CRT "Yellow Bird" '87
RUF CTR2 '96
RUF RGT '00
Spoon Civic Type R (EK) '00
Spoon Integra Type R (DC2) '99
Spoon S2000 '00
Spoon CR-Z
TRD Celica TRD Sports M (ZZT231) '00
Trial Celica SS-II (ZZT231) '03
Tom's X540 Chaser '00