Fix the Gran Turismo CLUTCH movement

[JogoAsobi]

It may be that simply putting a race flywheel on a car, allowing the engine to "slow down quicker" will help. Something to try at least. :/

Funny you mentioned this, after being force-fed the Honda Fit, the very first thing I did was visit the Tuning Parts section because I intended to use the TH8RS.

After all, tuning has always been an enjoyable part of the GT experience for me.

So I spent 6K of the remaining 13K credits on a triple-plate clutch kit for the Fit an the last 7K on racing brakes.

I was able to sail through the entire Novice section manually shifting with the Fit and more than recoup the 13K credits spent on parts with the roughly 32K in prize credits.

So maybe one reason I might have had better luck than many with the clutch is that in GT5 the very first thing I did with any car I intended to manual shift with was upgrade all drive train-related parts.

I have continued to that in GT6, except the first thing I plunk money down for now are racing brakes.

...and for anyone wondering why I might just use one car for all those Novice events, well I got the USA GS Anniversary ed. with 25 cars, more than enough to entertain me in Single Race mode till I could get online.

 

[RacingManiac]

I had more trouble with the shift now with the TH8RS vs the G25. The longer throw and more defined gate makes the timing of getting the dread N more frequent....

 

[mrbasher]

I had more trouble with the shift now with the TH8RS vs the G25. The longer throw and more defined gate makes the timing of getting the dread N more frequent....

There is an easy fix for this. (though not that widely known)

Go here: http://ts.thrustmaster.com/eng/index.php?pg=view_files&gid=1&fid=2&pid=319&cid=5

Grab the TH8RS tool there and the PDF manual for the tool (same page)
Plug your TH8RS into your PC.
Run the TH8RS tool and go through the process of calibrating the gates. You should read the instructions on that page for the procedure.

Using the tool you can actually set where all the gears engage. It's extremely beneficial, especially compared to stock. The calibration settings are stored on the shifter, not the PC. This means they carry over to the PS3.

I set my gears up so 1 3 5 7 are the top 1/3rd and 2 4 6 R are the bottom 1/3rd. Adjust as necessary, but make sure they are the same ratio top and bottom. I originally had trouble because stock, mine were not. I frequently missed 3rd gear, which was really odd.

Anyhow, give it a shot.

 

[RacingManiac]

Thanks for that, I'll for sure try it out.

 

[stb155]

Yesterday i played GT the first time with clutch.

I also missed gears quite often in the beginning, but if i press the clutch fully and change gear not to fast it works every time.

I like that GT6 is more forgiving on downshifts, in many other games it is hard not to break traction on fast downshifts.
Maybe not 100% realistic but you just dont have the feel/feedback of a real clutch in a game, (also you lack the feel of acceleration) so i think its a good compromise.

Please explain what is wrong with the clutch in the game.

(GT3RS, Clubsport shifter, and i drive a manual in real life)

 

[Bigbazz]

I would explain what is wrong with the clutch, but rather than do it again I'l bump the thread and you can go back and read it.

 

[vilonosec]

I like that GT6 is more forgiving on downshifts, in many other games it is hard not to break traction on fast downshifts.

That's another wrong thing in GT6 - in actual car if you downshift in the corner you spin out for sure (in RWD car). So much for "real" driving simulator, eh.

 

[stb155]

That's another wrong thing in GT6 - in actual car if you downshift in the corner you spin out for sure (in RWD car).

Not true, if you do it smooth enough and/or match the rpm to the next gear you have no problem, and most cars have ASR too. (reduces engine brake, opposite of what TC does)

 

[Rallywagon]

I am torn here TBH. Not in the fact that it sucks, cause it does. But in the fact that I think it really is better than it was in GT5. I missed shift a lot in gt5, it almost seemed like a random thing. But in GT6 I see the flaw. I know to take it a little slower from 1st to 2nd. It actually helps me stay calm racing too. However, IRL I have, and kinda still do grind gears. Mostly when I am cruising away from a light and my hand thinks it is in a race with my foot, and wins. But all the same. I think, instead of the "check" dropping the car into neutral, it should make a grind sound with a slight pause then slot into the selected gear. That's what happens when the hand beats the foot. Also, I think it would be nice to have possible clutch issues as a full damage type thing. Hydraulics fail, and the pedal is dead. So you power shift, when you slot into gear, it waits until the revs match, then drops into gear. like a synchro does in real life. You can't replicate the feel on shifter as you hold it against a synchro then feel it match and slot into gear, but you can replicate the mechanics of the machine in the game.
One issue I have when this debate comes up, is that I can't feel my cars motion, so heel toe and slipping the clutch have no real feel to me. IRL I use the feel of the car at least as much as I do the sound of the engine when manipulating the clutch. Without that input, those tasks feel very numb and distant. So it never bothered me to not have it implemented. However, the tire noise, as good awfully loud and terrible sounding as it is, really helps convey at least the tires situation. And now, when you drop down a gear and dump the clutch, the wheels break traction. That didn't happen in GT5.
That said, for GT6 I am driving all cars as they are. Meaning, if its an auto only car, I will race it in auto, if it came with a clutch and manual, that's what I'll race, and paddle shift the paddle shifter only cars. I enjoy using the clutch much more now. Not sure if I will learn to heel toe in the game yet or not. I'll have to race more than I drift first though.

 

[Griffith500]

That's another wrong thing in GT6 - in actual car if you downshift in the corner you spin out for sure (in RWD car). So much for "real" driving simulator, eh.

That's not the clutch either. At least not alone, and not in the way the complaints are being presented. The entire balance of drivetrain interactions seems "off" with GT, and it should be on their list for an overhaul (much as the suspension, tyre and aero models, the AI and the sounds are).

 

[mrbasher]

I will agree that the result of a failed shift should not be what it is. I get their reasoning, but in practice it's annoying when it does happen.

iRacing previously had an interesting method of handling this, though I believe they've since removed it. (though I did not personally hear people complain about it) When missing a shift, depending on just how "bad" you missed it, the gears would grind and the car would sort of be in this "half-engaged" mode. You could stomp on the accelerator and the car would move, but you would not get full power and it would make an awful sound. If you left the car in gear, and lifted to allow the engine rpm to match the transmission, they would "mesh" and things would be fine. The other option was just like GT5/6, push in clutch, take out of gear, put in gear, release clutch.

Maybe they should have simply added a mode selection, like the steering has. Simulation would work like now, and maybe the next levels down from there would be increasingly "lax." Then just put it on the leaderboards, so you can see who uses what. Seems reasonable. It's fine to have it go into neutral if you don't push the clutch AT ALL, this would prevent all out power shifting. They just need varying degrees of precision.

 

[stb155]

I think, instead of the "check" dropping the car into neutral, it should make a grind sound with a slight pause then slot into the selected gear. That's what happens when the hand beats the foot

Depends, if you had engaged the clutch to much before the gear was in it should stay in N (+grinding noise) because that is what happens IRL most of the time (certainly when you are at full throttle again)

It should not miss a shift if you stay on full throttle but have the clutch timing right.
(does it do that in GT6 ?, i thought my misshifts happend because of clutch not 100% disengaged)


The M3 GTR should be allowed to powershift like IRL

(Hewland H gearbox + ignition cut off i think)

edit:

That's not the clutch either. At least not alone, and not in the way the complaints are being presented. The entire balance of drivetrain interactions seems "off" with GT, and it should be on their list for an overhau

They should start at how fast engines rev. up/down an how much time a gear change takes (with +/- button).

 

[Griffith500]

@mrbasher My usual method in iRacing (probably influenced by LFS) was just to dip the clutch. Because I'd typically left the shifter where I wanted it and the game was still trying for it, it popped in nae bother and away I went again, only slightly retarded by the whole ordeal.

I like the idea of a visible "parity control" for H-pattern users against the standard sequential timings, but to be frank it's easier just to force sequential use via an event or online room option, much like they did with the GT Academy 2013.

@stb155 gears will not be selected if the last selected gear is lower than the one you're trying to select ("changing up") and if you have more than 20% (ish) throttle applied or if less than the required clutch movement is applied (fully decoupled in the physics). It just stays in neutral.

Going the other way, higher gear to a lower gear ("changing down"), you only need to be mindful of the clutch at the point the shifter hardware relays the "selection" of the new gear via the pots or microswitches (but the timing is arguably trickier, and this is where I miss most often in any game).

 

[Paolosev91]

It would also be nice to hear some noise when shifting gears and not only the engine rev changing...

 

[TheCrazySwede]

Although I would love to have some consequences appear during mis-shifts and such, the fact that vehicle damage everywhere else is rather mediocre makes me care less about that one, specific aspect of "damage control." What really bothers me is having the whole "Ooops, I neutral'ed again" moments recurring during track time. Now, I'm not the most experienced driver in the world, but as someone who races in North America on a National level (SCCA), I've had plently of time behind the wheel both ON and OFF the racetrack.

There are only two things I can think of that really bothers me in GT5/GT6

1. FF Cars and their awful handling. (No Lift-Off Oversteer? Come on!)
2. The clutch/transmission simulation

As other's have mentioned, being able to tackle a corner at full speed, putting your diff at work and suddenly downshifting without properly syncing your drivetrain will result in some sudden changes in traction in your RWD vehicle. This, among with the proper clutch simulation, is ALSO absent from GT6. Maybe PD forgot to focus on the drive-train as a synchronized entity, rather than fixed and independent functions. Hopefully, this is something they can add to their list of "Oh yeah, we'll fix that on an update sometime later before the Sun explodes."

 

[RacingManiac]

I dunno, I thought lift-off oversteer in FF car in GT6 is much more apparent and usable....

 

[Davis]

I agree, I took a stock Cooper S through Brands Hatch, very noticeable through the first corner.

 

[RacingManiac]

Whats more, I feel like they actually have some differences....a stock Fit isn't as responsive as say, a stock Clio RS or a ST. And a GTI is like somewhere in between. Which is what I'd expect with them IRL....

 

[TheCrazySwede]

I dunno, I thought lift-off oversteer in FF car in GT6 is much more apparent and usable....

Don't get me wrong, compared to GT5's understeer fest, GT6's suspension and weight transfer simulation is much better. Comparing just one car, the Focus ST '13 (Due to real life driving experience with the car) it doesn't replicate how amazingly tail happy that little car is, despite its drivetrain. Supposing that the stock tune in GT6 is faithful to the stock tune of the car, it drives nothing like it. Even after playing around with the anti-roll bars and suspension, it doesn't naturally replicate the oversteer. Those are just my two cents.

Also, I apologize for bringing up a different subject in this thread. I'll hold back on that.
Now, where was I?....Oh yeah, the clutch sucks.

 

[ApexVGear]

Here's a video demonstrating just how bad the clutch is in GT6.

Read more about this in the thread, Clutch, still an utter joke!

Go to 28 minutes to watch Shaun, an experienced sim and real-life race car driver, attempt to operate the clutch.

 

[CJDA9]

This needs to be fixed!!!!!! It shouldn't put us into neutral if we miss shift!

 

[BWX]

The thing that really really sucks is that if the wheels are spinning, you cannot shift at all.. it always goes into N. That makes drifting with clutch impossible.

Been doing entire career with clutch and it's fun, but you have to upgrade clutch in the car for sure to get better shifts. Nothing can help stupid "wheels spinning=N" bug though.. So ridiculous that Kaz refuses to fix this broken game.

 

[research]

... The other option was just like GT5/6, push in clutch, take out of gear, put in gear, release clutch.

You're missing a really important step there, bro..

GT5/6: Let off of throttle at least 80%, push clutch all the way down, select gear, release clutch/apply throttle.


also @ApexVGear I think they gave you a shout @30 minute mark. Nice. And yes, Shaun definitely gets rudely re-introduced to our awesome clutch simulation in that clip.

 

[1241Penguin]

I think, and again, I haven't TESTED IT... I think this shifting issue has to do with the engine rpm needing to match the transmission rpm. It is NOT simply letting off the gas all the way before pressing clutch fully and shifting.

This is true. In GT5 and GT6, even if you fully let go of the throttle and fully depress the clutch, if the RPMs are too high, it won't shift.

 

[JogoAsobi]

You're missing a really important step there, bro..

GT5/6: Let off of throttle at least 80%, push clutch all the way down, select gear, release clutch/apply throttle.

also @ApexVGear I think they gave you a shout @30 minute mark. Nice. And yes, Shaun definitely gets rudely re-introduced to our awesome clutch simulation in that clip.

This is going to get very interesting...
Just checked out the MyGranTurismo.net's GT5 Seasonal TT leaderboards...

research vs. mrbasher:

mrbasher did some GT5 Seasonal TT's, he just got GT6 so nothing on that yet...
...but he laid down one hell of a time at 679 overall for TT # 54 using a clutch...
...WGc/No Aids/0 ABS, off-road Norwand to boot.
...so it appears he does have the steps in order bro.

I see your best time using the clutch (only 1) is around 44,000 overall for TT #33.
So in this case I am inclined to go with his performance, not what you have posted.

Feel free to check my TTs there as well...there are others that make the clutch work too...
...not saying is perfect, it can be unforgiving, but its totally doable, GT6 is easier.

Hardware SDK?

So I am starting to wonder if its something to do with hardware SDKs provided to PD.
Logitech probably has not updated their G25/G27 SDK in some time...
...and Fanatec appears to reverse engineer borrow Logitech's G25/G27 SDK code.

Thrustmaster's T500RS is the "official" wheel for GT5, and GT6...
...so of the three brands, I presume its clutch is probably the most integrated with the game.

Using the clutch with T500 seems to be a lot easier than my Fanatec gear was.
I used both the TH8RS, and Porsche/CSR shifters when I had Fanatec gear (now use T500).
That being said, GTP member Mahnegold regularly thrashed me using a Fanatec Porsche H-shifter.
His TT times are on the MyGranTurismo.net's leaderboards too.

Clutch also broken in GT6:

Regarding "confirmation" of GT6's broken clutch via the Honda Fit in ISR's referenced pre-review show...
...I beat the gold time for the GT6 Honda Fit TT Seasonal by almost 4.5 seconds with manual clutch.
I also beat the 15th Anniversary TT Gold time using clutch, Quattro S1, by over 7.5 seconds.

Both under PSN JogoAsobi, mid-1600s for Fit, low 900s for 15th Anniv...
...at the time of this posting on GT6 LB, using T500/TH8RS.

Back to ISR's GT6 pre-review show research and ApexVGear refer to...

They didn't explore GT5/GT6 basics like the Tuning Parts' drive train/clutch options.
They also didn't verify calibration of the TH8RS neutral zones using the Thrustmaster utility.

I would assume any "seasoned" pro Sim racer would explore those options if encountering clutch difficulties...
...especially when presenting a "live" pre-review of an eagerly-anticipated product for their www audience.

Lastly, when you get time, check out some on-board videos of real pre-paddle shifter LMP's...
...and how they are manually shifted...real eye opener, they have to be very precise, no slop.



------------------------------------------

@ ApexVGear, I sent you a PM at ISR couple of weeks ago about this.

I suggested you query or poll people about the hardware they use for clutch in GT5/GT6.
Other questions might be helpful to ask are; what type car, what drive train, time spent trying.

My PM console at ISR indicates you have never read it, maybe I'm on your ignore list?

 

[Green]

Personally I don't know how people can complain about the clutch, the 3 main wheels for GT (DF,G25/G27/T500) don't have good enough hardware ie (a clutch pedal that can simulate the biting point of a clutch). Any game I've used the T500 on the clutch still doesn't feel like a clutch, so I can understand why they(PD) wouldn't really spend that much time trying to develop software for a pedal which can't really deliver.

 

[CJDA9]

It's not so much the clutch feel that I care about, it's the damn miss shifting problem.

 

[Bigbazz]

We're not asking for magic, we're asking for it to work. Assetto Corsa pulled it off, they are a team of what... 10 developers? The Assetto Corsa clutch works properly and still simulates grinding gears, proper slip.

Rfactor 2 also manages it fine, it works in Simraceway, Project Cars have it figured. There is no excuse.

 

[ApexVGear]

This is going to get very interesting...
Just checked out the MyGranTurismo.net's GT5 Seasonal TT leaderboards...

research vs. mrbasher:

mrbasher did some GT5 Seasonal TT's, he just got GT6 so nothing on that yet...
...but he laid down one hell of a time at 679 overall for TT # 54 using a clutch...
...WGc/No Aids/0 ABS, off-road Norwand to boot.
...so it appears he does have the steps in order bro.

I see your best time using the clutch (only 1) is around 44,000 overall for TT #33.
So in this case I am inclined to go with his performance, not what you have posted.

Feel free to check my TTs there as well...there are others that make the clutch work too...
...not saying is perfect, it can be unforgiving, but its totally doable, GT6 is easier.

Hardware SDK?

So I am starting to wonder if its something to do with hardware SDKs provided to PD.
Logitech probably has not updated their G25/G27 SDK in some time...
...and Fanatec appears to reverse engineer borrow Logitech's G25/G27 SDK code.

Thrustmaster's T500RS is the "official" wheel for GT5, and GT6...
...so of the three brands, I presume its clutch is probably the most integrated with the game.

Using the clutch with T500 seems to be a lot easier than my Fanatec gear was.
I used both the TH8RS, and Porsche/CSR shifters when I had Fanatec gear (now use T500).
That being said, GTP member Mahnegold regularly thrashed me using a Fanatec Porsche H-shifter.
His TT times are on the MyGranTurismo.net's leaderboards too.

Clutch also broken in GT6:

Regarding "confirmation" of GT6's broken clutch via the Honda Fit in ISR's referenced pre-review show...
...I beat the gold time for the GT6 Honda Fit TT Seasonal by almost 4.5 seconds with manual clutch.
I also beat the 15th Anniversary TT Gold time using clutch, Quattro S1, by over 7.5 seconds.

Both under PSN JogoAsobi, mid-1600s for Fit, low 900s for 15th Anniv...
...at the time of this posting on GT6 LB, using T500/TH8RS.

Back to ISR's GT6 pre-review show research and ApexVGear refer to...

They didn't explore GT5/GT6 basics like the Tuning Parts' drive train/clutch options.
They also didn't verify calibration of the TH8RS neutral zones using the Thrustmaster utility.

I would assume any "seasoned" pro Sim racer would explore those options if encountering clutch difficulties...
...especially when presenting a "live" pre-review of an eagerly-anticipated product for their www audience.

Lastly, when you get time, check out some on-board videos of real pre-paddle shifter LMP's...
...and how they are manually shifted...real eye opener, they have to be very precise, no slop.



------------------------------------------

@ ApexVGear, I sent you a PM at ISR couple of weeks ago about this.

I suggested you query or poll people about the hardware they use for clutch in GT5/GT6.
Other questions might be helpful to ask are; what type car, what drive train, time spent trying.

My PM console at ISR indicates you have never read it, maybe I'm on your ignore list?

Anyone can adapt and learn to use the clutch as it is in GT5-6. In the video below, this is actually me a few years ago with a G27 running a lap at The Nurburgring, and I might have "mis-shifted" only a couple of times. This was after learning how to use the "GT clutch" in GT5 Prologue, spending a lot of time with Gran Turismo 5, and it was the ONLY simulator that I had used that featured a clutch up until that time. The lap isn't earth shattering or anything, and I think the real Audi actually has a sequential stick.



After that, I switched over to Forza Motorsport with Fanatec gear, and I finally had the "most realistic" clutch I had ever driven in a simulator. It's not 100% perfect to a real clutch, but for a simulator, it's one of the best. When I get a mis-shift in Forza, it's 100% because I screwed up, and I EVERY TIME, I know exactly what I did wrong.

Now, when I return to GT5-6, I'm reminded constantly of how bad and unrealistic the GT clutch is. If I focus more on the clutch operation--more than I really should be doing--I can get some pretty good times. But with experience in real life, and having experience with simulators that mimic clutch operation much better, the additional and unnatural "focus" you have to apply to the clutch operation eliminates some of the "realism" I experience with other titles. Also, when GT5-6 goes into one of it's mis-shift "fenzies" and cause me to lose a race or crash when trying to downshift into a turn, my blood pressure goes through the roof, especially at the end of a series of races where I can't reset and I needed the gold. I NEVER experience this with other simulators that feature a clutch.

Some people may try to "discredit" this claim because they can boast that they've posted good times on the leaderboards while using a clutch. With my extensive experience with the clutch, with different wheels and pedals, this almost sounds like someone approaching me in real life with a high performance car, and saying "Yep, we ripped the transmission out of this, replaced it with a worn out transmission from a U-Haul truck, and adjusted the clutch so it engages near the floor. Sometimes it may go into neutral, even if you think it should be in a gear, but we committed a lot of time and determination to learn how to use it, and can post really good track times." ...wow, I guess... I'm impressed. So should I think that's okay or correct? Should I do the same thing to all the cars I drive?

I have, from a good and reliable source (not the sound guy above) that interacts with Kazunori and some of the Polyphony Digital team at special occasions, such as GT Galas, launch parties, and press interviews, that they (Kaz, PD) have been asked about Gran Turismo's clutch issues. They acknowledge that there is a problem with it, and the most recent statement (yet another, different one) claims that it's a problem with the Logitech drivers. They only mention Logitech specifically, and not Thrustmaster. Some Thrustmaster owners have claimed that it's "better" but it still doesn't work well.

If so, hardware drivers are only part of the problem. There are other problems with the way the clutch is programmed in Gran Turismo, that with the driver problems (if they are true) just make the problems even worse.

I've spent enough time with Gran Turismo (GT5, 100%, 1,020 cars) that I know that some cars appear to be more forgiving than others, and upgrades seem to improve cars. In GT6, I drove the Mazda 787B in the first Super License Mission event last night, did it with the clutch and stick, obtained a "gold" time, and its' shifting seemed to be a little more "reliable" than other cars--but you could still mis-shift and have to start over. I actually reduced my shifts, relied more on the torque of the simulated rotary engine, and got the gold.

Even if I posted comparison videos, provided measurements, tested all wheels and pedals myself, I know anyone could say, "because YOU say it's that way doesn't mean it's so," or "it's not really THAT bad."

We could do polls, and we could do "research" and if I have the time and feel it's truly relative, I may set something up. However, a seven-page thread where the majority of the posts concur with this situation, dozens of people liking my posts, acknowledgement of the problem from Polyphony Digital team members as well as Kazunori himself... is that not enough to conclude that there really is a serious problem with the clutch?

However, still for every dozen or so posts that agree, there must be those few that either claim it's "okay," report that upgrades make a "difference" (though it doesn't fix it), make statements about posting great lap times while using it (and therefore, it "works?"), or the most absurd statements that the Gran Turismo is perfectly fine, and it should work the way it does.

Yes, this is only a video game, and I can only commit so much time to it, and this "effort" to draw more attention to the clutch problem. I also agree that the majority of those that own Gran Turismo are using controllers, and for those that have wheels, even a smaller minority may have a clutch and stick. I also agree that the chances of Kazunori and Polyphony Digital fixing this problem in Gran Turismo 6 are quite low. However, I would love to experience Gran Turismo 6 with a much better clutch model. At this time, after a week of nothing but GT6, I've pretty much lost interest. Bathurst, The Matterhorn, return of Apricot hill, graphic improvements, better physics--even so, for the most part, it just feels like been there, done that... again. Let's "grind" away and re-race events, wait for new seasonal events with bigger payouts--to build up my car collection... again. Do it all over, ONE MORE TIME with a horrible clutch.

Last night, I returned to Forza Motorsport 4 just to drive the Sauber C9 and Mazda 787B at LeMans. This was after driving the Suaber C9 in GT6--that doesn't even allow use of the stick and clutch (like the real car)--ANOTHER and NEW problem with Gran Turismo 6. In Forza, it required a lap or two for me to lose the unrealistic "apprehension" that "integrated" itself into my driving and shifting as I drove GT6 for the past seven days. After that, I was able to get back to confident and natural shifts, just like I do in real cars, and REALLY ENJOY driving the cars. No simulated clutch model is perfect to real life, but Forza's is really good. Again, if there's a mis-shift in Forza, it's not because of the programming or bad hardware drivers--it's because I screwed up, and I know exactly what I did wrong.

This isn't a conspiracy to bash Gran Turismo or ruin everyone else's experience and love for it. This is important to me (as much as it can be) because Gran Turismo is very special to me in a lot of ways. Though I live in the U.S. I had a copy of the Japanese release of the first Gran Turismo on day one--and it changed how I felt about simulators and what to expect from them forever.

Now, today, Gran Turismo is falling way behind. ...and I hate seeing that happen to it.

The clutch is the biggest problem for me, as it directly affects how I "interact" with the game and what I experience while trying to race and drive the cars. Some of the other problems, especially the new ones in GT6 are annoying, and will likely be remedied in updates, but here we are, GT5 Prologue, GT5, GT6 demo, and now GT6... the clutch was "updated" once in GT5 (yet another "acknowledgement" from Kaz and PD) but it didn't even come close to bringing it to the level of other simulators' clutch models.

If Gran Turismo 7 is released on the PS4 and the clutch is still as horrible as it has been, then that's it. I'm done with Gran Turismo. There's no hope for the franchise, and it will just become nothing more than a video game for the masses with controllers that haven't experienced other simulators that definitely deserve to have "the real driving simulator" as their tag lines or descriptors.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Blinded by the dreaded wall of text...

I am just trying to figure out why a few of us can use it with minor issues, but most can't at all.

If you read through this thread, you will find a few people besides me who can use it.
...and I know two of them on this thread do track time in real cars.
So there may be more than one variable at play here. 💡

Apex, the Sauber issue is seems due to mis-labeling of the trans by PD.

A couple of cars have that issue, they are actually sequential, but mis-labled.
The rocket car also has the same glitch, couple of threads here at GTP about it.
Others are reporting that it also happens with some standard cars.