FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[t.o.]

I'm thinking the lighting should give it a boost. I'm really chomping at the bit to experience what the tire physics should do at Maple Valley.

Last night I got an audio treat at Maple Valley Reverse that I either never paid attention to or just experienced for the first time. If you go full track reverse at the part where you go under the overpass you get some unique audio coming from what I believe are the tires. I don't run Reverse there often. Only a handful of times to be honest. Last night we ran some stock 09' Challengers and 10' Camaro's and right when you're making that turn diving in underneath the overpass you hear some chirp/scraping sounds. I'll make a vid with it so you guys can hear it for yourselves. Forza keeps on giving even after all this time. lol

 

[cuco33]

I didn't know about the porsche dropping quality. One thing I couldn't stand was the fact that Che posted way too much on neogaf and barely said much on fm.net's own forums. One of the reasons I stopped posting on fm.net. why bother if the community manager was discussing forza on gag but not even on fm.net
I mean stuff was released outside of fm.net's forums. Way to hook up the community mr. Che

 

[Bogie 19th]

I still think Forza 3 looks pretty dang good especially when you consider everything it can do and still hold 4,100 vinyls per car. Thats way beyond impressive and way beyond what any racing game has accomplished. Plus damage and everything else going on at the same time. So graphically I am still very happy with Forza 3 and I play it almost every single day. Its not as beautiful as GT5 Photo Travel mode but on track it looks better most of the time. Which is impressve for a game that only took 2 years. Its graphically impressive to me. (I am only comparing Premium cars so if we compared standard cars, F3 destroys GT5). So I am being fair and only comparing to the 20% of the cars that are premium.

Now it looks like they are taking that to a whole new level especially with lighting. And one thing to keep in mind, the truly amazing pics we have been seeing are ONLY going to look like that in Auto Vista mode. The rest of the game will look great, but the AUtovista is where the graphics destroy everything else.

With that said, I really hope they do some sort of graphicaly upgrade with Maple Valley and a couple of the other tracks. Some of them really are looking dated.

You won't get an argument from me. I agree with you on these items 110%.

This is a terrible example and it's not really noticable ingame. Also the glass is not black in either circumstances other than the window tint upgrade. (One off the things they claimed)

I noticed it right away once I saw the gif. I went into the game and did it for myself to see if it was a photohop.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I'm thinking the lighting should give it a boost. I'm really chomping at the bit to experience what the tire physics should do at Maple Valley.

Last night I got an audio treat at Maple Valley Reverse that I either never paid attention to or just experienced for the first time. If you go full track reverse at the part where you go under the overpass you get some unique audio coming from what I believe are the tires. I don't run Reverse there often. Only a handful of times to be honest. Last night we ran some stock 09' Challengers and 10' Camaro's and right when you're making that turn diving in underneath the overpass you hear some chirp/scraping sounds. I'll make a vid with it so you guys can hear it for yourselves. Forza keeps on giving even after all this time. lol

Funny you say that. Last night I was playing with a friend and I decided to set the AI to all mucle cars just for some awesome audio. So I set the years from 64-71 with any race class to see what the AI would throw in. To my surprise a very wide variety of cars and wow to hear all of them on the track was such a treat for the ear.

This is a terrible example and it's not really noticable ingame. Also the glass is not black in either circumstances other than the window tint upgrade. (One off the things they claimed)

Actually if you load ANY car in Forza 3 on track, then hit the start button the graphics do indeed get a lot better. The glass is also very very dark while racing and clears up in pause/photo mode. I have tested this many times and its true. While driving on the track, the car models are lower polygons. But as soon as you hit start, it takes a couple seconds and somehow increases the polys of the cars. Its actually a clever way to sneak better quality into a photomode. So while you are racing the car models are indeed toned down. Then as soon as you hit start, the quality increases.

 

[t.o.]

Here's the vid I was talking about. You can hear it on the left side. It's not as distinct and clear as it is when I'm running it on my 5.1 setup. It's VERY clear and distinct in surround sound. But here it is..

 

[Spagetti69]

^ Are you using the FOV trick?

 

[t.o.]

^ Are you using the FOV trick?

I had set it once but I don't know if I still have it in effect as I did something a few times to reset some things. But I could have it on still. I think my replays show more than what I actually run in game. Don't ask me why/how.

 

[Spagetti69]

Just seems to have the cockpit cam back a bit that's all.

 

[Hotspitta]

Just seems to have the cockpit cam back a bit that's all.

Yes but when you do the fov trick it also removes any camera-shake from the cockpit view. It also tilts the camera back in Split-screen vs mode.

 

[zanxion]

I hate cockpit views because they hide most part of the view. They do not reflect the true feeling of the view in a car as the human brain isolates certain elements in view (the road say). I would prefer something like an out-of-the-windscreen-view with some "hat" function to look around.

 

[Luminis]

I would prefer something like an out-of-the-windscreen-view with some "hat" function to look around.

What you're describing sounds a lot like the hood camera.


Although, I prefer Shift 2's hood cam:

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I hate cockpit views because they hide most part of the view. They do not reflect the true feeling of the view in a car as the human brain isolates certain elements in view (the road say). I would prefer something like an out-of-the-windscreen-view with some "hat" function to look around.

I agree except when using triple screen.

 

[Spagetti69]

Yes but when you do the fov trick it also removes any camera-shake from the cockpit view. It also tilts the camera back in Split-screen vs mode.

I've never experienced camera shake in Forza 3.

I didn't even know we could have split screen either lol.

 

[Hotspitta]

What you're describing sounds a lot like the hood camera.

Love the sounds of Shift 2.👍

I've never experienced camera shake in Forza 3.

I didn't even know we could have split screen either lol.

Ooh its there when you set the multiscreen too Off(default settings). Its pretty good. Not as good as GT or race Pro though.

 

[Luminis]

Love the sounds of Shift 2.👍

One of the few areas (alongside the AI) that S2U excels at. Hopefully T10 took more inspiration from that game than just Autolog/Rival Mode.

 

[Hotspitta]

One of the few areas (alongside the AI) that S2U excels at. Hopefully T10 took more inspiration from that game than just Autolog/Rival Mode.

I might pick it up after seeing that without the overdone camera shake via the hoodcam. Is there a slider that reduces the cockpit camera sway and shake?

 

[Zer0]

I don't think they did. They were saying that all press photos and images they released were taken directly from the game, unedited and even said they weren't bullshots (meaning post processed outside the game). What they didn't do is tell you what the in game race quality was like. Everyone just assumed that photomode shots were in game during game play.

Again it seems that you don't know the full history:

Q: How did the ingame graphics compare to the photo mode shots we normally get?

T10, Che Chou: The in-game graphics look the same as photomode. When gameplay footage gets released as the press receive builds, it'll be pretty obvious.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16902781&postcount=4169

First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay. The E3 batch was taken back in early May, and given how the development process works, the game is improving just about daily, so the bottomline is that these screenshots are from a work-in-progress. Naturally, the game will actually look better by the time it comes out later this fall. The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cause+Forza+3+is+an+exceedingly+gorgeous+game

They were trying to convince everybody that the ingame graphics were the same as the photomode graphics, until the public demo was out... then the forums and the over hyped community exploded.

 

[Luminis]

I might pick it up after seeing that without the overdone camera shake via the hoodcam. Is there a slider that reduces the cockpit camera sway and shake?

Sadly, no, there isn't. I mean, personally, I like thhe shaking in the cockpit, but yeah, it would've needed an option to turn it down a bit.

then the forums and the over hyped community exploded.

Not like that didn't happen with GT5.

People are always eager to show pictures like this when talking about GT5's graphics:

However, if you're not carefully selecting your images, this is what'll turn up:

Granted, GT5 doesn't drop the in-race quality. But it has its fair share of problems in the graphics department.

 

[cuco33]

They were right that the images they showed off weren't bullshots. They were taken directly from the game's photomode and not post processed on a PC. What they weren't being honest about was the difference between the photomodes and the gameplay quality. Che said they look the same (but not that they were the same). When they said they took it in real time... that's what they did, like you or I could do in the game. Pause the game, go straight to photo mode, take pic and done. No editing outside the game.

When the demo came out people were in uproar because they assumed photo mode quality was in game racing quality. Most who were up in arms were those loyal GT/Sony folk, not the multiplat owners nor the 'xbots'. Had they noticed all other racing titles, they'd see that photomodes always boosted up the quality of the cars more than what they were in the gameplay itself. It was made more than what it was, like most stuff.

Che is a tool of tools. The dude posted more info on neogaf than on fm.net's own forums and he was the community manager. Sheesh.... He should have been fired a long time ago. Regardless the difference isn't that noticeable unless you go on zooming 400x or pit one against the other at the same time. Most don't even notice the difference in quality of the models. Those that do didn't care or were trying to make it more than what it was. GT5's model swap, the very same thing that Forza3 was chastised for, was brushed under the carpet as when I came across it by accident, I noticed I didn't see any flack like FM3 got across the web on all forums I visit. And Forza3 got MASSIVE flack for the model swap going into photo modes.
I don't care, I just like to point out these things and discuss them. I'm not a graphics/spec whore. If a game looks great than that's all that matters. I'd rather take a level back on quality to sustain consistent frame rate.

 

[G.T.Ace]

GT5's model swap, the very same thing that Forza3 was chastised for

There's no model swap between race, replay and photos from a replay. The models from the photo travel mode have a higher LOD, but even there they're rendered in real time.

 

[Spagetti69]

There's no model swap between race, replay and photos from a replay. The models from the photo travel mode have a higher LOD, but even there they're rendered in real time.

Agreed.

They opted to go with the higher level of detail and what ever draw backs that caused.

Forza decided to drop the LOD for the benifit in other areas.

I can see why both sides did it.

 

[t.o.]

There's no model swap between race, replay and photos from a replay. The models from the photo travel mode have a higher LOD, but even there they're rendered in real time.

Agreed.

They opted to go with the higher level of detail and what ever draw backs that caused.

Forza decided to drop the LOD for the benifit in other areas.

I can see why both sides did it.

I have a hard time believing that. Didn't somebody just show a pic of a GT5 Car's rim in-race against photomode. One was photo-realistic where the in-game looked like a disc with details painted on it. That's not LOD, that's a different model altogether.

 

[Zer0]

GT5's model swap, the very same thing that Forza3 was chastised for, was brushed under the carpet as when I came across it by accident, I noticed I didn't see any flack like FM3 got across the web on all forums I visit. And Forza3 got MASSIVE flack for the model swap going into photo modes.

That's false, otherwise you never could have taken this photo in GT5.

 

[t.o.]

That's false, otherwise you never could have taken this photo in GT5.

Could you explain your reply? I'm not ashamed to admit that it went over my head. I don't know if you're agreeing with him or not. Your words seem like you aren't but posting that pic seems like you are.

 

[cuco33]

That's false, otherwise you never could have taken this photo in GT5.

The model swap I mentioned isn't race replay photo mode. It's in race replay photo mode and photo travel photo mode. I don't get why PD couldn't use the same gorgeous premium photo travel wheel model with race replay. For those taking pictures, especially during racing, you'd expect a better model since it's offered in photo travel. Maybe PD uses this 2D face as the same model when it's rotating. I don't know. I just know that it's clear a model swap is happening here. In my book, a premium wheel for a premium car shouldn't have 2D bolts as a texture. It is after all a premium car.

 

[Zer0]

Could you explain your reply? I'm not ashamed to admit that it went over my head. I don't know if you're agreeing with him or not. Your words seem like you aren't but posting that pic seems like you are.

Gameplay Photomode in FM3 consist in swaping the player car model to a different high quality model, so in your photos you never saw the real gameplay quality(much lower and less detailed).

Gameplay Photomode in GT5 consist in leaving the same car models intact from the gameplay, so you get the same details. If GT5 would swap the models like FM3 the rim photo above would be perfectly round and detailed.

The high quality photo of the same rim is not a swap, is from the phototravel, a separate mode that use higher quality models for background placement, not used in gameplay.

I think people don't understand what is a gameplay swap. Just place your car in FM3 the more close to a replay camera, run slowly or stop in front and see the replay car detail. After that take a photo of the same car and compare. Make the same with GT5 and search for differences.

Cuco33, try to take a photo in FM3 from other car than yours and compare the detail and textures. In GT5 if you want to take close up details you have the Phototravel. In gameplay the details are enought to not need a model swap like FM3. Also is much better to have a real representation of the game graphics detail specially when the game is under development than a false representation. See what happened with FM3.

FM3 without car swaps it would have looked funny compared to GT5 photomode.

*an AI car model, the same quality as the player car have in replays/gameplay and before the photo swap.

 

[VXR]

In moving footage, I don't see what the problem is. And even less so when you can set the focus on the AI car and like magic, in comes the higher LOD.

 

[jasjeet]

I was just going to say, when the cars are moving, you cannot see any of this!

 

[G.T.Ace]

Of course you see this, at least in your subconscious (correct English?), just like you notice the blacked out interior. If the model swap wouldn't be there, the overall game would look much better (just like GT5 wouldn't seem so bad without the Standard cars).

 

[jasjeet]

You dont notice anything in your subconscious, thats the whole point of subconsciousness.