FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Tesla]

I've had a brilliant idea that will never come to formation.

Why not get SMS, PD and T10 to each do what they do best on a single game? Polyphony doing the physics/car details, SMS doing the sounds/suspension physics/a.i and T10 doing the sounds and the livery editor. Then have that game selling on pc, PS3 and 360, with each developer receiving the income from their platform..

Some day 👍

 

[Luminis]

I honestly think they'd be hampering each other's performance when working on a single game...
And, more importantly, I think that the competition is going to be more valuable to the franchises than what all of those three companies combined would do.

If anything, I'd like a few more developers competing in the sim racing genre, but, alas, it just isn't as popular as shooters
Anyways, competition is key to improvement, in my opinion.

 

[t.o.]

Its been awhile since I've booted up FM3 but I just did tonight. I must say, the car selection is just world's better than GT series by a wide mile for the simple fact you can just pick them easily and demo any vehicle. No used car dealer. Really altogether I just find the car selection to be focused on the cars I want. Just perfect. Maybe this is due to me being American and T10 being from my same region. So they share my tastes all the way from LM cars to V8 supers, etc

I really dont have much to add; think everyone already summed up the bonuses over GT.

I still cant get used to the lighting on the cars and such. But really I think I much prefer the consistency here (you know the standard vs premium thing).

Ok another quick observation- I really adore how GT5 really branched out with Rally, Nascar, F1, etc. Forza series from what I recall (played casually since FM2) has always been tightly focused. I am actually in a boring spot in my FM campaign. Doesnt seem like I can get out of it but thats another topic. I'm just saying im stuck on this calendar doing green hell over and over. But that might be due to my noobery. So my thought here is really I think GT5 advantage is branching out much better with the driver tutorials & variety (rally, etc)

So I just noticed Forza 3 has V8 supercars. Amazing. GT5 really fubared that. I just now got a ford falcon in GT5 at the OCD other week ago

Really, I consider these T10 devs top notch devs, When it comes to the arcade experience its top notch. I think I've always liked this rewind feature as well.

GT5 seems to be missing a lot of the fun gamey soul FM has. Forza is missing the wide open variety & focus on educating the player about core racing concepts

I'm curious to what you mean by this. One thing I notice with FM3 is racing with it taught me quite a bit about the core racing concepts as I know it. Well at least racing with the guys I race with it taught me alot. I don't recall GT5 having any racing class per se that teaches about weight transfer, grip and such. However I do know that all these principles apply in both games. I used to get lapped in FM3 thinking I was actually racing well when infact I was the only time I was doing good was when I was on the straights. lol. The guys started telling me how racers race and after a while I was in the races with them.

I'll never forget my "OH NOW I SEE" moment when it all became clear.

 

[Hotspitta]

👍 Which is exactly why Richard Burns Rally sold about eight copies (OK I may have exaggerated that for effect) on the PS2, despite easily having a physics engine that still bests most PS3 and 360 titles.

Scaff

This. Loved that game. 👍

 

[VXR]

FM doesn't even need dirt rally. Tarmac rallies properly organised as such at locales like Kaido and Positano, with staggered starts and appropriate trackside detail would be relatively easy to add.

And having Bob win me the FGT in GT4 yesterday, I really, really hope they could throw in an F1 car with paintable bodywork...

 

[Bogie 19th]

Sound wise, I think both T10 and PD should sit down and listen to Shift 2 Unleashed for a while.

T10 and PD should listen to the gear switching sounds in Race Pro 09. A-fipping-mazing. The sounds of the different transmissions are NAILED in that game, something Forza and GT haven't even come close to. Keep in mind, I am talking race cars. Race Pro doesn't have street cars.

 

[sandboxgod]

I'm curious to what you mean by this. One thing I notice with FM3 is racing with it taught me quite a bit about the core racing concepts as I know it. Well at least racing with the guys I race with it taught me alot. I don't recall GT5 having any racing class per se that teaches about weight transfer, grip and such. However I do know that all these principles apply in both games. I used to get lapped in FM3 thinking I was actually racing well when infact I was the only time I was doing good was when I was on the straights. lol. The guys started telling me how racers race and after a while I was in the races with them.

I'll never forget my "OH NOW I SEE" moment when it all became clear.

Interesting, multiplayer with a mentor would be extremely ideal. I wonder if anyone has driving school for newbies going on?

What I was referring to though was that feature in GT5 where you talk to that NASCAR driver (Jeff Gordon?) and he teaches you bout drafting and those other concepts. And in the license section you learn some core concepts such as braking, late braking, etc. I thought maybe Forza series could use some of that.

Does Forza 3 ever talk bout drafting and such ingame? I noticed Shift 2 does at least mention it in the tips section on loading screens

Sound wise, I think both T10 and PD should sit down and listen to Shift 2 Unleashed for a while. That games got a lo of things wrong, but the sound isn't one of them - they got that right. Lot's of noises going on, nut just the engine. Creaking suspension, debris hitting the wheel arches and such, it's all there.

Regarding the different racing genres that GT5 offers: I like the idea and, while I'm not fan of dirt racing myself (would prefer hillclimb, for example), I appreciate it's in. But, I think that GT5 is spreading itself thin there. It has all of those licenses for WRC, NASCAR, and Super GT, but... Dunno, they just weren't put to good use, I think. For example, the rallying in GT5. It feels a bit tacked on and unrefined.

Forza could use a bit more diversity, but in my opinion, it's a good think if they're focusing on implementing the tarmac racing properly first. Having autocross back is a nice starting point for additional racing diciplines that could probably be added without too much effort.
I'd also like a touge mode, would be awesome on a track like Fujimi Kaido. And hillclimbs, as well. In my opinion, that would be easier to implement and give a bit of diversity to the franchise without going overboard and spreading itself thin, mostly because it's not limiting the cars it uses or has to work with a different surface, if that makes sense.

I would like HillClimb as well. Yeah spreading themselves too thin is a concern if they went that route*

 

[Luminis]

What I was referring to though was that feature in GT5 where you talk to that NASCAR driver (Jeff Gordon?) and he teaches you bout drafting and those other concepts. And in the license section you learn some core concepts such as braking, late braking, etc. I thought maybe Forza series could use some of that.

Nothing wrong with having some tutorials on driving and race craft, but, please, for the love of god, don't make them a part of the main game as GT does. I really don't want to be told how to drive yet again

Does Forza 3 ever talk bout drafting and such ingame? I noticed Shift 2 does at least mention it in the tips section on loading screens

I don't think Forza did stuff like that, but then again, I don't really remember the loading screen tips very well.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Does Forza 3 ever talk bout drafting and such ingame? I noticed Shift 2 does at least mention it in the tips section on loading screens.

Meh, not really. While drafting works in Forza 3, and you are penalized for drafting on lap times (lame IMO), there is no hand holding or educating the player about drafting.

At least with GT5, players are given an audible education on drafting. When they are drafting it's quiet, and when they break from that draft, the wind of course gets much louder. To me, that is a form of educating the gamer as to what is going on.

I hope FM addresses that. I also hope that we can actually see the windshields when in cockpit view.

 

[t.o.]

Interesting, multiplayer with a mentor would be extremely ideal. I wonder if anyone has driving school for newbies going on?

Not a bad idea at all. You'd have to find certain parts of certain tracks to get certain principles down (where it's the easiest to do whatever you're trying to teach at the moment) but it could be done. And for a mere XXXX credits YOU TOO could be a race car driver. LOL

What I was referring to though was that feature in GT5 where you talk to that NASCAR driver (Jeff Gordon?) and he teaches you bout drafting and those other concepts. And in the license section you learn some core concepts such as braking, late braking, etc. I thought maybe Forza series could use some of that.

I honestly tried to look at that through the eyes of complete newb and I like the novelty of it but I really thought they were useless. I really don't think any young boy on the face of the earth over 8 years old doesn't know about drafting.

I don't recall them actually teaching you anything in those license sections honestly. I understand you'd have to use those skills to complete them but I don't recall them actually teaching anything.

Does Forza 3 ever talk bout drafting and such ingame? I noticed Shift 2 does at least mention it in the tips section on loading screens

I recall something somewhere but I could be wrong. But I definitely know there's no school or anything like that. The only indication of drafting is getting an indication that your lap time is being ruined and you're wondering why till it hits you it's because you're drafting.

 

[infamousDee]

Maybe you could post the GT5 shots in bright sunshine like the FM shots rather than full shadow.

Here's a better comparison. As you can see, GT5 does a better job of emulating what the paintwork looks like in bright sunlight, although I still maintain that FM4's lighting is a massive improvement over its predecessor.

 

[Luminis]

Here's a better comparison. As you can see, GT5 does a better job of emulating what the paintwork looks like in bright sunlight, although I still maintain that FM4's lighting is a massive improvement over its predecessor.

Well, the colours look more natural in GT5, I think. But, in my opinion, the reflections of the environment look better in FM4. Then again, telling from those few shots is a bit tough, I'd like to see a few FM4 pictures with cars in other colours out on the track, first

 

[cuco33]

Those are all 3 different color blues, from 3 different car manufacturers from 3 regions in the world. 1 is real while the other 2 are in games (GT5 vs FM4).

Vette - Caliva Blue Metallic
370z - Blue Pearl Clearcoat
M5 - Monte Carlo Blue

Want a fair comparison? Same color. Preferably same car. Same conditions.
I think both GT5 and FM4 look phenomenal in both btw.

 

[zr1chris]

Those are all 3 different color blues, from 3 different car manufacturers from 3 regions in the world. 1 is real while the other 2 are in games (GT5 vs FM4).

Vette - Caliva Blue Metallic
370z - Blue Pearl Clearcoat
M5 - Monte Carlo Blue

Want a fair comparison? Same color. Preferably same car. Same conditions.
I think both GT5 and FM4 look phenomenal in both btw.

Also the GT5 pic along with the real pic are from above the car looking down. The Forza 4 pic is from the beside.

 

[t.o.]

Here's a better comparison. As you can see, GT5 does a better job of emulating what the paintwork looks like in bright sunlight, although I still maintain that FM4's lighting is a massive improvement over its predecessor.

Too be honest pics 1 and 3 look almost the same color reflection wise. In other words they look as if they came from the same game as far as the cars go. I think pic 1's environment fits the car better. Pic 2 really did nothing for me.

 

[erahk64]

Here's a better comparison. As you can see, GT5 does a better job of emulating what the paintwork looks like in bright sunlight, although I still maintain that FM4's lighting is a massive improvement over its predecessor.

Here is a pic of the real car from the rear angle.

 

[Luminis]

Aside from the fact that the FM4 pic has a bit too much colour saturation, it looks pretty much spot on. And that can be fixed with a few button pressed on the TV remote 👍

 

[erahk64]

Aside from the fact that the FM4 pic has a bit too much colour saturation, it looks pretty much spot on. And that can be fixed with a few button pressed on the TV remote 👍

Here is another real pic.

 

[Luminis]

Forza's looks a bit shinier, but without the trees in the way of the light, that's to be expected, i think

 

[zr1chris]

Forza's looks a bit shinier, but without the trees in the way of the light, that's to be expected, i think

Look at the roof and the top of the trunk. It looks shinier in the real pic. Also the rear window in the real pic you cant even see inside because of the shine. The side also looks allot shinier in the real pic but that could be due to the angle being more from the back. The more intense parts (or the glare) of the reflections are white in the real pic where as the Forza pic this are almost no white areas.

Edit. Whats up with the 2 round dots on the rear bumper in the Forza pic that isn't there on the real car?

 

[HadOne2Many]

I'm really not sure what these photo comparisons are going to accomplish. Like cuco33 said you really need the same conditions to compare (especially location of the light source).

By the way does anyone think those real photos of the M5 look off somehow? I can't quite put my finger on what it is...I dunno, it just looks too shiny...too plasticy.

 

[Hotspitta]

 

[Luminis]

Look at the roof and the top of the trunk. It looks shinier in the real pic. Also the rear window in the real pic you cant even see inside because of the shine. The side also looks allot shinier in the real pic but that could be due to the angle being more from the back. The more intense parts (or the glare) of the reflections are white in the real pic where as the Forza pic this are almost no white areas.

The strong reflections on the car are, in my opinion, mostly part of the different lighting in both pictures. From the pics of the M5, I assume that T10 kept the track design for the 'Ring the same as it was in FM3, including in a cloudy sky, since the lighting seems more 'flat' (I really don't know how to put, you know, like when the light becomes a bit 'pale' on a cloudy day).
That's why I think it looks a bit too shiny... Then again, it really is hard to tell, due to the different conditions of these shots.

Also, by just reducing the saturation of the image a bit, I think it looks just pretty much spot on:

Adjusting the brightness, contrast and saturation (which can be done on any TV as well) and adding a wee bit of noise to match up with the real picture:

I've got to admit, I've done shots on GT5 that look more realistic. But for a picture of the web that I didn't take myself, the outcome is pretty good.

So, personally, I'll just reduce my TV's rbightness and saturation, increase the contrast a wee bit, and voila, stunning image, right there. Then again, my TV is set up way different from my laptop monitor, either way... But I guess you get my point.

 

[zr1chris]

^ 👍

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

Not a bad idea at all. You'd have to find certain parts of certain tracks to get certain principles down (where it's the easiest to do whatever you're trying to teach at the moment) but it could be done. And for a mere XXXX credits YOU TOO could be a race car driver. LOL

I'd do it for free (minus vehicle costs) as long as you're actually willing to listen to what I say. I tried this before, and the people who signed up (for a SCHOOL) then thought they knew better than I did
It's good fun though. Maybe I'll start it up again...

 

[t.o.]

looking good

 

[cuco33]

Since this is a FM vs GT thread, and since I love both franchises and still play them today... I thought this would fit well here. I like to take the same cars and compare them on track, and in photo modes. Please note first and foremost that I am NOT a graphics/spec whore. I am one of those that if it looks great then I'm all for it. It's only 2 comparisons right now and I've got a lot of cars in both games I can do this with.


I tried taking the same exact car, same angles, same tracks, etc.


GT5: E92 BMW M3, close up of headlights, in race replay photomode

FM3: E92 BMW M3, close up of headlights, in race replay photomode

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This one surprised me the most but I've mentioned it before (albeit not showing FM's wheel closeup, or at least the closest mesh wheel I could find to an LM-R wheel)

GT5: BBS LM-R wheels on E92 BMW M3, in game race replay photomode:

GT5: BBS LM-R wheels on E92 BMW M3, in photo travel photo mode:

FM3: Closest wheel I can get to the BBS LM-R wheel was this Fikse wheel, still on E92 BMW M3, in race replay photo mode:

I personally think both games look great. Models are great. GT5's premiums clearly have an advantage. So far no standard comparisons yet but I have taken a few over the past few weeks.

Will FM4's photo modes match GT5's photo travel modes? We will see come October!

 

[cuco33]

This one looks like a good amount of HDR was applied to the image. Look at the colors of the tires and how the shaded areas pop out a bit. HDR throws image colors off a bit.
Either that or it was a REALLY bright day

 

[zr1chris]

looking good

Yup I just think it needs just a bit more variation in reflections.
As far as lighting is concerned this is the area that's missing in Forza 4.

I know this is a bit picky but imo its the only thing left for the lighting to be perfect.

 

[erahk64]

Yup I just think it needs just a bit more variation in reflections.
As far as lighting is concerned this is the area that's missing in Forza 4.

I know this is a bit picky but imo its the only thing left for the lighting to be perfect.

The difference may be caused by different angles of the light source and car.
The pic below has some of those bright spots: