FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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All EA games are dedicated servers. Sucks because they keep terminating servers on games that are 3 years old or older. EA sucks!

Ah thank you for the clarification. đź‘Ť

I play BF series on PC so it helped to get clarification that console racing game can get Dedicated servers. Which helps me with my original post- I see no reason why these console racers limited to just 16 player grids :crazy:

I mean, I know why (graphics!). But I think it's a shame!
 
3 years old?! I recall a game from EA getting it's servers pulled just a year after launch.

I think it's great that Forza is bringing 16 player grids. I just hope it's consistent across the whole game. In GT5 16 player grids are not the common practice in single player racing. You generally see 12 player grids. Even the seasonal events you start off as 12th place out of 12. I think when AI is involved, it hampers performance a bit and that's why you generally see 12 in GT5 and not the 16. Online, no AI so 16 is fine. Again, I hope FM4's 16 player count is consistent across the entire game. I don't like disparity. If you toot 16 player count then be sure the whole game has 16 players, not select modes or tracks.
 
Not all career races will have 16 cars. I think Dan has stated that.

Just want standing starts, not this rolling start at the back stuff games are doing nowadays.

Also. Creating custom races offline. Give us the option to set AI other than medium.
Set amount of laps greater than two.
Ability to race against cars from my garage.

Hell, just let me set up the race how I like.

The conspiracy theorist inside me says they nerfed the offline settings to gather more online subs.

Time will tell.
 
I mean, I know why (graphics!). But I think it's a shame!

Exactly. And graphics are important. Very important. For the sales of the game. Your average Joe doesn't care abput having twntyfour cars instead of sixteen. He doesn't care about wheel support, either, as he's going to play it with a gamepad anyways.

I mean, get yourself someone who doesn't know the game, give them the pad/wheel and ask them what they think. When I did so with GT5, nine times out of ten, the answer would be "Wow, it looks good!". Same for Forza and Shift 2.

From my experience... Graphics > anything else, when it comes to selling car games. Second comes content (car list and track count), I'd asume. Whether the driving physics are realistic or the grid is large or small, that pretty much comes last for most of the buyers.

Out of five million people who bought Forza 3 and six and a half million who bought GT5, guys like us who even care about the physics as much as we do, are the extreme minority. Same for wheel owners.

If a sim is trying to cater to that huge demographic, it just has to shift the focus accordingly. I mean, give your average player the choice whether to play the beautiful game or the game with the realistic physics - what do you think they'd pick?

Of course, advertising the hell out of games like GTR would increase the sales they get - but I highly doubt they'd ever get to the point of success that GT and FM have reached.
 
Luminis you speak the truth my friend.

I've said it before. The average gamer looks to the back cover for graphics.

I even do it myself now.

Kaz's quest for the holy grail of graphics certainly hurt the series in other departments. That is an extreme example but many developers are afraid to release a sub par looking game, even if it has great gameplay.

Each sequel is under pressure to out perform the previous release. Something has to suffer. Usually gameplay.

Take F1 2010. Looks fantastic with full weather effects.
Myself I would take a less details hit ,to boost FPS.
 
Good arguments (ps the word "argument" doesn't necessarily mean two or more people shouting at the top of their lungs throwing things at each other lol) but I still say they could have sold more on consoles if they would just advertise. If Race Pro did more than just tap people on the shoulder in a dark alley and say "Pssst, I'm selling a racing game" they would have made some more sales. As far as the other games they could have adapted their games for the console market. If SIMBIN could do it no reason they couldn't either.

The one really solid valid point you do have is the community-based content imo. I don't think you'd move any PC users to the consoles solely on that reason alone but it wouldn't have stopped any console based users who probably don't know about the community-based content to begin with. They could at least made it a money-making gateway to their PC world.

A lot of people just buy rFactor for the mods. I know I've never played base rFactor. And when I get rFactor 2 I will still play rFactor. you realize rFactor has like no licensed cars right (maybe 1)? It would get slayed left & right on console. you ever install the game and play base rFactor?

iRacing with its high pricing structure would get slayed too along with what- 50 licensed cars? Console racer wants super fancy graphics, gamepads, and most likely dont want to pay $12 per car + $15 per track + no driving aids. There's just no way; would take a lot of changes to make it work

This in addition to posts above (good posts Luminus & Sphagetti)
 
Which other wheel manufacturers could Microsoft attract given the dearth of wheel manufacturers and those which operate with the 360's force feedback hardware?

It's not as if Logitech couldn't make a 360 wheel (the did, didn't they?).
 
Which other wheel manufacturers could Microsoft attract given the dearth of wheel manufacturers and those which operate with the 360's force feedback hardware?

It's not as if Logitech couldn't make a 360 wheel (the did, didn't they?).

Logitech very well could.
There's Logitech, Hama, Thrustmaster, Saitek, Microsoft itself and lots of others.

We'll see who's making that wheel and what it'll be like.
 
Yes it has already been posted... And WOW you must have eyes if you can judge this by an off screen video đź‘Ť

Well, to be fair, off screen videos were enough to make people claim how awesome GT5 looks, when it wasn't released yet.

Anyways, I agree, it's not possible to tell which game looks better, as both are pretty close to each other, so it's all going to be about the details. That's a good thing though, in my opinioon, as it shows a tremendous improvement for Forza.
 
Forza 4's tracks look much better textured from that off screen video (what was shown so far), except from, like I said previously, that wired looking grass :yuck::yuck::yuck:
 
Out of five million people who bought Forza 3 and six and a half million who bought GT5, guys like us who even care about the physics as much as we do, are the extreme minority. Same for wheel owners.

đź‘Ť Which is exactly why Richard Burns Rally sold about eight copies (OK I may have exaggerated that for effect) on the PS2, despite easily having a physics engine that still bests most PS3 and 360 titles.


Scaff
 
People in my neighborhood mow their lawns like that.

0113644.jpg
 
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đź‘Ť Which is exactly why Richard Burns Rally sold about eight copies (OK I may have exaggerated that for effect) on the PS2, despite easily having a physics engine that still bests most PS3 and 360 titles.


Scaff

I never knew Richard Burns Rally (RBR) was on the PS2??? You guys know your stuff đź‘Ť
 
thats my point, if it looks that good "off screen" it still looks beter than gt5 in game ...

Bad resolution can also hide a lot of uglyness. Point in case: GT's shadows. You won't notice the jaggy edges and flickering as much on a small, off-screen video.
I'm still of the opinion that both look good off screen, but judging which looks better is hardly possible from that footage.

Not that that's a bad thing. If they're that close, that's good enough for Forza, in my opnion, already. Anything else is just bonus, really, because I fully expected it to not match GT in terms of graphics, to be quite honest. At least if we're not considering the inconsistencies with GT's graphics. Competing with GT at that level and possibly being more consistent with its graphics is all I'd ever ask for. If I get more than that, that's more than welcome, but that's hard to tell righ now.
 
sandboxgod
I never knew Richard Burns Rally (RBR) was on the PS2??? You guys know your stuff đź‘Ť

Sorry for off topic.

Just bought this off amazon for PS2. It rocks.

Oh and G27 works fine too.
 
đź‘Ť Which is exactly why Richard Burns Rally sold about eight copies (OK I may have exaggerated that for effect) on the PS2, despite easily having a physics engine that still bests most PS3 and 360 titles.


Scaff
Not only best on the console but PC as well. There is no rally game comes even close to RBR physics which is sad.
P.S if you have PC you want to get RBR for the PC with all the upgrades and mods.
 
Not only best on the console but PC as well. There is no rally game comes even close to RBR physics which is sad.
P.S if you have PC you want to get RBR for the PC with all the upgrades and mods.

I don't think any rally game has come close to the experience of RBR, incredibly immersive, and I find in watching replays the behaviour of the cars is just so beautiful to watch and somehow I still find the trackside detail looks very real, even though the graphics are so dated. Absolute classic game.

Given Forza 4 and Shift 2 use the same lighting method, I find the cars look pretty similar between the two. I found in Forza 3 the cars did look 'plastic,' like the cars were made of painted fibreglass, not metal. Like the paints were also a bit washed out. That's my explanation of the something.

I don't see any of that in the Forza 4 gameplay, it looks pretty good.

In overall consistency, Forza 4 looks to be a winner, but in the right conditions GT5 is still ahead (which I think goes for a lot of things GT5, in the right conditions it's great, but we shouldn't have to get it into these 'conditions' to see it's strengths. And in the wrong conditions, it's absolutely horrendous - no wonder there's so much debate about it).
 
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In overall consistency, Forza 4 looks to be a winner, but in the right conditions GT5 is still ahead (which I think goes for a lot of things GT5, in the right conditions it's great, but we shouldn't have to get it into these 'conditions' to see it's strengths. And in the wrong conditions, it's absolutely horrendous - no wonder there's so much debate about it).

That's true IMO as well, but if we go into what conditions are suitable for GT5 it would take a while to compile, so I guess we can say that on average or when generalized, FM4 would win.
 
Its been awhile since I've booted up FM3 but I just did tonight. I must say, the car selection is just world's better than GT series by a wide mile for the simple fact you can just pick them easily and demo any vehicle. No used car dealer. Really altogether I just find the car selection to be focused on the cars I want. Just perfect. Maybe this is due to me being American and T10 being from my same region. So they share my tastes all the way from LM cars to V8 supers, etc

I really dont have much to add; think everyone already summed up the bonuses over GT.

I still cant get used to the lighting on the cars and such. But really I think I much prefer the consistency here (you know the standard vs premium thing).

Ok another quick observation- I really adore how GT5 really branched out with Rally, Nascar, F1, etc. Forza series from what I recall (played casually since FM2) has always been tightly focused. I am actually in a boring spot in my FM campaign. Doesnt seem like I can get out of it but thats another topic. I'm just saying im stuck on this calendar doing green hell over and over. But that might be due to my noobery. So my thought here is really I think GT5 advantage is branching out much better with the driver tutorials & variety (rally, etc)

So I just noticed Forza 3 has V8 supercars. Amazing. GT5 really fubared that. I just now got a ford falcon in GT5 at the OCD other week ago

Really, I consider these T10 devs top notch devs, When it comes to the arcade experience its top notch. I think I've always liked this rewind feature as well.

GT5 seems to be missing a lot of the fun gamey soul FM has. Forza is missing the wide open variety & focus on educating the player about core racing concepts
 
Thank God GT5 doesn't have V8 Supercars, otherwise we would be subjected to seeing them with those horrendous sound samples :crazy:

I'd be happy for all motorsports to be included in GT with it's trademark superb visuals if they'd get the goddamn sound right.
 
Sound wise, I think both T10 and PD should sit down and listen to Shift 2 Unleashed for a while. That games got a lo of things wrong, but the sound isn't one of them - they got that right. Lot's of noises going on, nut just the engine. Creaking suspension, debris hitting the wheel arches and such, it's all there.

Regarding the different racing genres that GT5 offers: I like the idea and, while I'm not fan of dirt racing myself (would prefer hillclimb, for example), I appreciate it's in. But, I think that GT5 is spreading itself thin there. It has all of those licenses for WRC, NASCAR, and Super GT, but... Dunno, they just weren't put to good use, I think. For example, the rallying in GT5. It feels a bit tacked on and unrefined.

Forza could use a bit more diversity, but in my opinion, it's a good think if they're focusing on implementing the tarmac racing properly first. Having autocross back is a nice starting point for additional racing diciplines that could probably be added without too much effort.
I'd also like a touge mode, would be awesome on a track like Fujimi Kaido. And hillclimbs, as well. In my opinion, that would be easier to implement and give a bit of diversity to the franchise without going overboard and spreading itself thin, mostly because it's not limiting the cars it uses or has to work with a different surface, if that makes sense.
 
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